(Little) Things that annoy you in Pokémon

[pika pal]

Just take a look at something like Lopunny, who after being resurrected for 2 gens straight is now back in the gutter. Except wait, it's for some inscrutable reason still getting new tools that the Mega would go absolutely crazy for: Close Combat, U-Turn, Quick Attack. It's a bizarre limbo and it's not the only one trapped in it.

The kicker about this disconnect for me is especially evident with the Gen 8 transfer mechanics and rumors about Gen 9. It's entirely possible that if the Megas come back in a Gen 14 remake of XY or something, they could elect not to even give these moves to Lopunny or whoever the subject is due to move data being tweaked, transfer moves or tutors not coming back, etc.

Pokemon's design ethos is becoming more and more obviously about being a Generational thing, games more willing to cut or cull stuff to do a specific experience for this entry without hard-committing to that being a thing next Gen. This isn't an issue objectively speaking, but it's annoying because it means a Pokemon isn't necessarily "on its way" to getting better if it's close-but-not-there in a Gen, as things can shift radically and undermine those gains by the next big thing. You could lose your Mega, a valuable move could get cut, maybe stuff that gets excluded creates a very favorable/unfavorable environment for you, etc.

The thing that irritates me about the Mega cut is that it's effectively designed as a long term mechanic, a few new Megas every Gen to buff some of the old Pokemon if they need something more dramatic than a few stat points or a couple moves. The simplest explanation I can think of is that Megas weren't compatible with the spaghetti code they do for new gimmicks and the Marketing Machine insists of the Mechanic rather than the users being the "new toy" to sell people on. I feel these stick out the most among the Generational gimmicks because Z-moves and Dynamax being specific to a region also means the lore is mostly in the gimmick as a concept. Megas meanwhile are tied intrinsically to individual Pokemon with Lore about the particular form and getting unique designs, so it's a lot more work to ditch and to just accept not existing literally anywhere else in the world somehow.

Gen 9 Spoiler relevant

A lot of the Paradoxes feel like they're functionally Megas for old Pokemon in the same vein, even a couple NFE Pokemon like Scream Tail for Jigglypuff despite that being a concern about "capping off" evolution chains, to the point that the two "Ace" ones are very blatantly drawing on Mega Design elements if not referencing the forms in their Dex Entries.

Much as I like and in some ways prefer the handling of Paradoxes lore-wise, they still create a similar pitfall in that you have to explain their presence in any game where they appear by a means other than transfer. And if they aren't to be explained and simply are there for gameplay, we come back to asking why Megas can't be handled the same

 

[Nitro Indigo]

Because I've done a little thinking about it, and truth be told for all my numerous reservations with how Mega Evolution was handled I can't help but be increasingly discontent with what became of them. More specifically, how they were scrapped with absolutely no fanfare or warning.

I still get annoyed when people acted like the Mega Evolution PokéDex entries being dark in Gen 7 was "proof" that Game Freak regretted them. By that reasoning, Game Freak "regrets" making about half of all Pokémon if TheJWittz has taught me anything.

Phisical Electric types are a disaster due to Electric not having a good phisical move, and always have to rely on signature ones.

When I first brainstormed Category Swap in the Showdown chat, this was one of the first things to come up.

 

[Magcargo]

I don't really mind that Weavile lost Knock Off in SV, but why did it lose Throat Chop? Now it has no good Dark moves.

Sneasel's best Dark move being BITE is also pretty bad. It doesn't even get night Slash now, yet Hisui Sneasel does.

The move reminder is weird. It doesn't remember moves passed via transfer, so if I give sneasel Icicle Crash and forget it, it won't remember the move. Also Pokemon like Garganacl won't remember moves like Iron Defense.

 

[R_N]

I don't really mind that Weavile lost Knock Off in SV, but why did it lose Throat Chop? Now it has no good Dark moves.

Sneasel's best Dark move being BITE is also pretty bad. It doesn't even get night Slash now, yet Hisui Sneasel does.

The move reminder is weird. It doesn't remember moves passed via transfer, so if I give sneasel Icicle Crash and forget it, it won't remember the move. Also Pokemon like Garganacl won't remember moves like Iron Defense.

It lost Knock Off because it hasn't been a Tutor, TM or TR since USUM.
It lost Throat Chop because it's no longer a TM/TR

Most of the moves "lost" are because the way to get them just doesn't exist any more. It's like how we kept losing the elemental punches over and over and over again.

The real question is why, despite Sneasel being in damn near every regional dex and thus in a position to constantly have its level up & egg moves altered game to game, they never give it or its evolution either notable dark moves.

And yeah the "Memory" system has been wonky since its introduction. TMs, TRs, Tutors, "wild" variants of Egg Moves (Brilliant Pokemon, Raids, dex nav, etc), "shared" egg moves, etc just do not get added to the Memory. I assume this is just to keep you on The Grind but the fact egg moves are so easy to share around now you'd think they would alleviate that....

 

[Siggu]

Another example is Breloom.

In BDSP, it gained Spore as a Move Reminder move. That's fantastic, since, without the Gen 7 Move Reminder, you don't have to grind levels to get a Breloom of Spore.

It's no longer the case in Scarlet/Violet. Some more minor examples are, say, Altaria losing False Swipe.

 

[Magcargo]

It lost Knock Off because it hasn't been a Tutor, TM or TR since USUM.
It lost Throat Chop because it's no longer a TM/TR

Most of the moves "lost" are because the way to get them just doesn't exist any more. It's like how we kept losing the elemental punches over and over and over again.

The real question is why, despite Sneasel being in damn near every regional dex and thus in a position to constantly have its level up & egg moves altered game to game, they never give it or its evolution either notable dark moves.

And yeah the "Memory" system has been wonky since its introduction. TMs, TRs, Tutors, "wild" variants of Egg Moves (Brilliant Pokemon, Raids, dex nav, etc), "shared" egg moves, etc just do not get added to the Memory. I assume this is just to keep you on The Grind but the fact egg moves are so easy to share around now you'd think they would alleviate that....

Weavile had Throat Chop as an Egg Move in USUM and BDSP, so it's weird that it lost it. My only explanation is that they copy pasted the SwSh Egg moves w/o understanding why they made the cuts they did. If you look at the learnsets for High Horsepower, Throat Chop, and Superpower, you'll see that either nothing learns the move via Egg Now (in Throat Chop's case) or only Pokemon not present in SwSh learn these moves via breeding.

EDIT: Actually the sample size might be too low to definitively prove the above statement. Bottom line is that Weavile should have access to Throat chop like in BDSP.

 

[LonelyGaruga]

I mean, they basically already have that.

The only contentious ones are physical Electric (I maintain that Wild Charge is an above average move, if only slightly; minor recoil isn't enough to ruin 90 power and perfect accuracy), physical non-bird Flying, and physical Ghost whenever Poltergeist isn't around (and even then, Shadow Claw is below average but it's not horrible).

Everything else has a widely distributed move that's at least average, assuming you define average as stuff like Dragon Claw, Power Gem, Strength, etc.

Okay, let me put it like this. This Pokemon-style Touhou game I'm using as a reference has 90-100 BP moves with no drawbacks for both physical/special categories for every type besides physical Fighting (80 BP w/ +1 crit is the best drawbackless option), and on top of them existing, they're TMs widely distributed to the corresponding users with some extras for coverage usage. Pokémon has a lower power level overall due to poor BST balance (I.E. Butterfree), and so the average move power being lower overall seems fair. So something like 80-90 BP STAB options without drawbacks like minor recoil or flawed accuracy being widely available seems fair. It's just ridiculous that, never mind distribution, many categories are simply appalling in their dearth of options. Like Special Flying moves have Air Cutter as the best 100% accuracy move. It isn't even 70 BP.

 

[DrPumpkinz]

Okay, let me put it like this. This Pokemon-style Touhou game I'm using as a reference has 90-100 BP moves with no drawbacks for both physical/special categories for every type besides physical Fighting (80 BP w/ +1 crit is the best drawbackless option), and on top of them existing, they're TMs widely distributed to the corresponding users with some extras for coverage usage. Pokémon has a lower power level overall due to poor BST balance (I.E. Butterfree), and so the average move power being lower overall seems fair. So something like 80-90 BP STAB options without drawbacks like minor recoil or flawed accuracy being widely available seems fair. It's just ridiculous that, never mind distribution, many categories are simply appalling in their dearth of options. Like Special Flying moves have Air Cutter as the best 100% accuracy move. It isn't even 70 BP.

Special Flying-types have Air Slash and Hurricane, which I'd consider above average and good, respectively (Air Slash's flinch rate makes up for its slightly subpar accuracy and power). Adding a special Drill Peck would not make a significant difference.

 

[Hugin]

To be fair, phisical is exactly where the "generic 80 bp move with no drawback" isn't a thing.

So, let's look at types with generic good moves. Meaning moves with 80-100* base power, at least 90% accuracy, no drawbacks, not signature**. Stuff marked with a ? is iffy whether it truly qualifies.***

Physical

80:
Hyper Fang
Zen Headbutt
Drill Run
Drill Peck
Strength
Waterfall
Leech Life
Crunch
Extreme Speed
Dragon Claw
Poison Jab
Seed Bomb
X-Scissor
Iron Head
Throat Chop
Lunge
Body Press?
Ice Spinner?
85:
Blaze Kick
Sky Uppercut
Icicle Crash
Body Slam
Darkest Lariat
Psychic Fangs
Liquidation
90:
Meteor Mash?
Aqua Tail
Play Rough
Leaf Blade
Sacred Sword?
Petal Blizzard
95:
High Horsepower
100:
Crab Hammer
Jump Kick?
Earthquake

Special

80:
Aura Sphere
Tri Attack
Shadow Ball
Extrasensory
Dark Pulse
Power Gem
Flash Cannon
Discharge
Lava Plume
Psyshock?
Scald
Water Pledge
Fire Pledge
Grass Pledge
Dazzling Gleam
Expanding Force
Tera Blast
85:
Dragon Pulse
90:
Ice Beam
Flamethrower
Surf
Thunderbolt
Psychic
Sludge Bomb
Hyper Voice
Bug Buzz
Energy Ball
Earth Power
Pollen Puff
95:
Heat Wave
Sludge Wave
Moonblast
100:

*80 BP is the cutoff because I think people are happy with Crunch or Tri Attack, but not with Rock Slide or Thunder Punch. 100 BP is the upper cutoff because everything above that should have a drawback and I don't want to spend time checking.
**I'm counting stuff like Fire Lash that are mostly signature as signature, but I don't have a hard rule for what qualifies here.
***I may have missed something, since my method was just "Sort Bulbapedia and copy over", but nothing obvious springs to mind rereading my lists. Other than multi-hit moves, but screw that.

First off, there's a lot more of these moves than I thought. 80 BP has a lot of them, which is good, but this was not supposed to go this long. LOTS of physical signature moves fell in this range. Also plenty of ones that got discarded for drawbacks(Fly/Hammer Arm/Foul Play etc). If I were just looking at a list of moves it wouldn't be noticeable where the issues lie. And you could argue some of my limits(accuracy cut-off, what's a signature move(Scald and the Pledge moves are specifically annoying examples), etc), but I needed some cut-off and that's what I chose.

Physical is missing Electric, Rock, and Ghost completely. Flying has Drill Peck, Fire has Blaze Kick, Psychic has Zen Headbutt/Psychic Fangs, all of which have limited distribution. I think every other type is mostly fine, or if not it's because they have moves with drawbacks that are good enough no one cares(Fighting).

Flying is the only type missing from the Special side. Fighting has Aura Sphere and Rock has Power Gem, which both have limited distributions, but every other type has at least one move with good distribution/power/accuracy, and most of those are 90 BP.

I think a big part of it is flavor. Every fire type gets Flamethrower, while Blaze Kick is mostly on Fighting mons and Fire Lash is borderline signature. So special fire types have guaranteed STAB. There's a few physical types in a similar good position off of one move(Dragon only gets Dragon Claw, but that's fine, because everything is happy with Dragon Claw), while something like Flying suffers because Gen 1 GF decided to make Drill Peck over "Big Wing Smash".

Thing is, I think the majority of mons can generally run dual STABs of their preferred category. And new mons that can't have the hole filled with a signature move. But that makes the mons that don't have the option, that have to run a subpar move or go mixed or similar, really stand out. And that's what causes this issue to come up so often. Because yes, EVire having to blow itself up to take out a water type is silly, that's not a reasonable decision from a balance or flavor standpoint. And GF is just...choosing not to care.

 

[starblazer491]

The removal of set mode has been really frustrating. I know you can just say no to the switch after defeating a pokemon but its annoying towards the people who want a more challenging experience.

 

[LonelyGaruga]

Special Flying-types have Air Slash and Hurricane, which I'd consider above average and good, respectively (Air Slash's flinch rate makes up for its slightly subpar accuracy and power). Adding a special Drill Peck would not make a significant difference.

Air Slash is not remotely "above average" in comparison to actually good moves like Moonblast or Scald. There isn't even a good argument for Air Slash being 95% accuracy. Iron Head and Zing Zap have the same flinch rate and 100% accuracy at 80 BP. It would not be problematic for there to be a reliable 90 BP Special Flying move, and definitely not for Air Slash to be buffed to 100% accuracy.

 

[DrPumpkinz]

Air Slash is not remotely "above average" in comparison to actually good moves like Moonblast or Scald. There isn't even a good argument for Air Slash being 95% accuracy. Iron Head and Zing Zap have the same flinch rate and 100% accuracy at 80 BP. It would not be problematic for there to be a reliable 90 BP Special Flying move, and definitely not for Air Slash to be buffed to 100% accuracy.

Oh, it's definitely not as good as Moonblast and Scald, but those moves are also way better than just "above average". I'm still comparing Air Slash to moves like Dragon Claw and Power Gem, or a hypothetical special Drill Peck.

 

[LonelyGaruga]

I don't see why you would when 95 BP Special moves were all over the place when Air Slash was introduced. Those were indeed the average Special attack. Even nerfed to 90 BP, that's 20% more damage and no chance of missing normally.

 

[Nitro Indigo]

For that matter, why does Play Rough have 90% accuracy?

 

[pika pal]

My issue with the move thing is that the lack of distribution on several of them due to their flavor means they contribute to the coverage discrepancy even if they exist. Generic Special Rock is only in a slightly better position than Generic Physical Electric because the "good" move is barely available to like 30 Families/Unique Species of Pokemon, of which maybe 7 of them could (not even would, COULD) use it effectively. Give Wild Charge some credit it's at least available to a lot of Pokemon who would benefit from a Physical Electric move.

I feel like this, the disparity in "power" distribution between moves of a type and spectrum, is a balance mechanism that can work in theory, but that GF clearly didn't think about until several gens after most of the moves were created, if at all. You end up with mons like the memetic Flareon who they designed as Physical w/ Fire STAB and then never remembered to give a Physical Fire move to until very recently.

Flipped around I think it also contributes to restrictive Mon design: You ever notice how few Special Fighting Types they make? Almost every Fighting-Type with any special capability is a mixed attacker (Lucario, Blaziken, Infernape), the sole exception I can find being Keldeo off-hand. This usually results in said Pokemon going Physical for their Fighting Attacks if not the set in general because Phys Fighting moves and Phys movepools just tend to be stronger. Why are Special Fighting types so rarely attempted? Because the flavor for their best standard move option (Aura Sphere) is far more specific than the Physical options (Can you Kick or just generally hit things really hard? You get Low Kick or Close Combat then), so to make one would either mean they fit into that Spiritual/Aura theme, their movepool sucks, or they need a signature that GF is already spreading themselves thin to make for literally everyone.

It sort of feeds into this sense I get with Pokemon (among other games) that almost feels like the Battle Systems themselves are handled by a different team than the ones who do Monster/Unit design to match them.

For that matter, why does Play Rough have 90% accuracy?

Because sometimes no one wants to play with you

 

[RocketSurgery]

Some very minor SV things:

1. It seems like you can only assign marks from the party now, not from the box. I don't think you can even see what marks it has in the box. Why.

2. People trading version exclusives in quick balls or great balls. The first few were fine, but after multiple quick/great ball dreepy I am checking and cancelling trades now. :p

 

[Dusk Mage Necrozma]

2. People trading version exclusives in quick balls or great balls. The first few were fine, but after multiple quick/great ball dreepy I am checking and cancelling trades now. :p

What’s the problem with this?

 

[Imperial Magala]

What’s the problem with this?

Aesthetic purposes. I don't even use Timer Balls on Legendaries because I find them tacky compared to Ultra Balls.

 

[Dusk Mage Necrozma]

Aesthetic purposes. I don't even use Timer Balls on Legendaries because I find them tacky compared to Ultra Balls.

Timer Balls are, like, the 5th best looking Pokeballs. After Luxury, Premier, Heavy, and Beast.

I do agree that Quick Balls look trash though.

 

[DreamPrince]

On the topic of the movepool thing, one thing that annoys me is that they got rid of Dual Chop in SV. I was actually considering Haxorus for BSS SV because +1 Mold Breaker has a good shot of KOing Sash Breloom while Mold Breaker lets it hit Mimikyu through Disguise, the number one Mon in BSS. But then I learned that Dual Chop was removed in SV.

Why? Was it because most people didn’t use it? Just because a move isn’t used often make it bad. Tail Glow was a move that got Dexited in SwSh, but I feel like the reason it was Dexited was there was only one good user Xurkitree, the other two had issues, Manaphy was never legal in VGC, while Volbeat is just bad with the exception of Prankster Baton Pass Tail Glow. To add insult to injury, when Xurkitree returned in CT, it still couldn’t learn Tail Glow!

 

[Magcargo]

Punching Gloves is one of the most disappointing items ever. I thought it would be great since it has the benefits of both protective pads and a power boosting item, making it a good item on Pokemon like Urshifu, melmetal, etc. However, not only does the item not stack with iron first but the boost is a paltry 10%, making it worse than protective pads in most cases. A 10% boost on normally weak moves is way too little to give this item any merit even on pokemon that like running punching moves, especially since it doesn't stack with iron fist.

EDIT: Actually it might stack with Iron Fist. Still, the low multiplier makes it underwhelming.

 

[khlaylav]

I get power creep and all, but Torch Song being just a better Fiery Dance annoys me.

This is also petty, and Flower Trick is very strong in its own right, but it also bugs me that Torch Song and Aqua Step raise a stat and Flower Trick doesn't for matching purposes.

 

[Turtlek]

I feel like some moves aren’t are distributed a lot to another type, I know it’s logical, but the fact no Fire Type learn Mystical Fire makes me nervous.
Also I am disappointed when Dragons do not have Fire Blast, like Lati@s and Miraidon do.

 

[khlaylav]

I feel like some moves aren’t are distributed a lot to another type, I know it’s logical, but the fact no Fire Type learn Mystical Fire makes me nervous.
Also I am disappointed when Dragons do not have Fire Blast, like Lati@s and Miraidon do.

Eh? Both Delphox and Armarouge learn it.

 

[R_N]

Eh? Both Delphox and Armarouge learn it.

Several fire types got it by TM last gen too (as well as Blacephalon)