Suspect Linked Suspect: Dragapult and Kartana

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Ivy

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:ss/dragapult: :ss/kartana:
Wow, a twofer! We've been looking at top threats in the Linked metagame and have dealt with quite a few via quickbans. Now, it's time for the community to chime in with some of the nuisances that remain.

Dragapult is a premier choice with nigh insurmountable Speed in a meta where offense is king. After a single Dragon Dance (which is almost always followed by free Dragon Darts), it can dismantle even any extremely rare Scarf user with ease. And, as is typical in Linked, it continues to snowball with additional dancing and darts. While this would quite obviously be checked by Clefable, it can run a lure of will-o-wisp and hex to obliterate this would-be counter while also crippling typical priority checks like Weavile. Additionally, as its powerful moves bring no drawbacks, it can be used even safer under Screens support to shrug off priority threats entirely. Indeed, Dragapult may seem unstoppable, but if its set is successfully discerned it can remain predictable and be played against.

Kartana is the obscene wallbreaking force it's renowned for in OU, now with the ability to set its own Tailwind while attacking or run the meme Timid set to similar effect. Once again, in a metagame with so little Choice Scarf presence, the setup for Tailwind is a negligible wait for a massive gain. Fighting-type priority is almost nonexistent, and Kartana's physical bulk lets it survive the others with ease. Both Unaware users perish to its STAB attacks. Once again, the most common answer to it is often simply to beat it in setting up, but Volcarona, its greatest offensive check, is gone with the latest quickban.

So, it's time to put these mons' fates into the hands of the players. Here's how:
  • Dragapult and Kartana remain unbanned and the ladder will be unchanged for this test.
  • You will need, as usual, 25 or more games played and 75% GXE to qualify.
  • Prepend PULTAN on the username of your new alt account, like PULTANIvy.
  • Post reqs in this thread with a screenshot of the /ladder command showing your stats and your Smogon username typed into chat.
  • Deadline will be just before the month ends on the 26th.
Good luck!
 

IBM

Banned deucer.
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First reqs wooo
Team was Inoue ’s team in the linked thread, it’s pretty broken

Alright some stuff I want to talk about: Definitely work on actually enforcing the volcarona ban before looking into dragapult and kartana, in my opinion dragapult is probably banworthy after volc goes, but not while volcarona is in the meta. Kartana isn’t really much of a problem.

Mew is probably more broken because in almost every game I was able to break an opponent’s link and get 2 or more kills with mew. Trick scarf locks the opponent into their setup move, and then they switch out and you can imprison transform and take out at least 1 more mon, and you can keep mew through the whole game if you don’t have an opportunity to go on a mini sweep.
 

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dhelmise

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Alright some stuff I want to talk about: Definitely work on actually enforcing the volcarona ban before looking into dragapult and kartana, in my opinion dragapult is probably banworthy after volc goes, but not while volcarona is in the meta. Kartana isn’t really much of a problem
dont base your voting on this please, the reason the volc ban isnt live is because nobody has hotpatched yet.
 

IBM

Banned deucer.
dont base your voting on this please, the reason the volc ban isnt live is because nobody has hotpatched yet.
Obviously I’m going to play more games once volc is gone, I was just speculating on the impact volc would have on these 2.

Volc is really one of the only things stopping the wisp hex dragapult set from becoming more common because dragapult needs the setup and physical moves to touch/revenge kill volc, so with volc gone it’s likely that the wisp hex set will rise in usage, which only exacerbates the problem of setguessing with pult.

Kart does get better with volc gone obviously but it doesn’t have the unpredictability of dragapult. The two sets, tailwind and sd, both have the same counters mostly so unlike with dragapult you can always go into one physical wall like steelix and corviknight and deal with it. It also has some hard 4mss because it really needs all 4 of leaf blade, smart strike, sacred sword, knock off to be able to threaten most of the meta, but since it can’t run all 4 plus a setup move, there are many other checks for specific kart sets (clef, aegi, ferro)

Again, I know not to vote based on a meta with volc, this is just what I think will happen because I had the opportunity to talk about it with the reqs post.
 

Some Thug

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Second thanks to Inoue's broken team and a few minor post Volcarona adjustments.

Looking back, I don't really see kartana as a huge threat, walled by the ever common clefable, corv, steelix, etc. Ddarts + dance pult seems kinda spicy, and wisp hex should be more viable with volc gone. However, still easily walled by unaware cp clef.

Having Tailwind on kartana felt like it just didn't hit hard enough or have enough coverage, while SD sets found it outsped by tornadus, skewda, and weavile

Also, tf is this https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8linked-1511333376

Focus energy or work up into snipe shot seems to make inteleon suicidal. Doesn't happen with Surf. It's happened a few times to a few guys on ladder, definitely worth checking out.

K this is my first suspect, so PLEASE lmk if I did something wrong
 
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kDCA

into the endless night
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I used that Inoue as well but since volc got banned I just mindlessly added dd pult with flame for kart and it worked
here is the modified team i used for anyone that cares for it

Currently leaning ban on dpult, dd pult is such a challenge to revenge kill offensively, dd allows it to abuse its insane speed tier, that incredible typing and really start snowballing teams with insane momentum due to linked moves, and its main defensive counterplay of unaware clef will get boomed by a willo-hex combo if it is running hex set. I actually saw a few willo-hex sets on ladder, they were definitely nothing to scoff at.

I'm not as convinced about kart. Its definitely strong and not weak like others suggest, but there still is relatively reliable defensive counterplay + non timid/tailwind sets are pretty easily revenge killed. Timid makes revenge killing more troublesome for offense after it gets a speed boost, but the drop in breaking power is noticeable vs kartanas defensive counterplay. I might change my mind later if other arguments come up, but currently I'm leaning DNB, at least in the current state of the metagame, due to both offensive and defensive counterplay currently being substantial enough.
 

ChainsPkmn

Banned deucer.
Screenshot_20220216-185652_Chrome.jpg


First time part of a suspect test so idk the right way to format this lol

I don't think either mons are banworthy issues, though Dragapult is definitely the worse offender of the two. Dragapult is very strong, but can get countered by fairy types like Clefable and Tapu Koko, and even some steel types work against it like Heatran. If you're able to get some chip on Dragapult, it's also pretty easy pickings for Ice Shard Weavile. I read some people used Will-O-Wisp hex to counter those counters but I ran into very few of those and none of those were issues either. Getting speed control versus Dragapult also makes it very easy to deal with, such as with tailwind. Overall I don't think a ban is necessary.

Kartana definitely doesn't deserve a ban, as it really struggles to deal with steel and fire types. It can run sacred sword to sort of compensate for those, but usually the common steel types can live at least one +2 sacred sword. A lot of mons that are faster than Kartana can usually KO it pretty reliably before it becomes an issue too, such as Weavile and Tapu Koko. Focus sash mons also give it a hard time and they usually don't have their linked slots be both attacking moves, so sash mons can revenge KO it easily. Kartana was never an issue in any of my games and Dragapult was rarely an issue for me either.

A mon I would like to have taken a look at would be Clefable. Cosmic Power + Softboiled makes it extremely hard to remove if it can be switched into the right mon, and then after it gets even one layer of defenses boosted, it becomes really hard to remove it without banking on lucky Crits or hazing the stat changes away, but most haze mons lack the offense to deal with it too, so nothing stops it from just setting up again. I've been using roar Heatran to deal with it, but even that doesn't work if the Clefable is the last mon making it unable to be phased out.

Anyways, those are my thoughts! This is definitely one of my more favorite OMs as I love the hyper offensive play style it offers, and I'm glad I'm able to contribute!
 
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So i did not even know this format existed until I saw a popup on blind voting and its safe to say this is the most fun i've had laddering for suspect reqs ever. From what i grasp here, Dragapult is mainly underwhelming as Tuthur stated above, but i Hex+Wilo is probably borderline. I personally believe that Kartana is an absolute menace in this meta, i've had games when ive broken through a Corv 1v1 no boosts and swept off it. Kartana right now here seems a bit too good as i'm using the Timid set.

On that note, i do believe that other Pokemon such as Melmetal should be looked at instead. A dumb amount of bulk combined with DIB+ice Punch/Thunder makes it almost have no switch ins. I faced most of these through screens too which made my experience even worse.

This team was the most fun ever to play with, i love CLICKING BUTTONS
Replays that i cackled at (yes i had more than one attempt at this)
[Gen 8] Linked replay: Kommo-o is clearly different
[Gen 8] Linked replay: Regieleki may need looking at?!
 

tzaur

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im probably gonna play around some more on ladder whenever i have time between now and saturday to solidify my opinion even though i've gotten reqs, but as of now, im likely voting dnb on pult and ban on kart. that timid set posted by reece above is actually deadly and difficult to revenge kill/wall out once it gets a +2 in atk and +1 in spe. only mons i've used that reliably dealt with were ID -> body press corv/skarm, and unaware clef (who is a bigger problem than both kart and pult imo) assuming they're reasonably healthy. i do find pult underwhelming if the opponent has at least one durable fairy-type on their team--clef and grim being the best answers to it. but i could potentially see it being an issue if clef ends up getting booted

used this team i threw together in like 15 mins built around meteor beam nihilego and had decent success with it. rain mu is ass and pretty much the reason for all three of my losses, so you may run ferro/rilla over corv and fire coverage on clef to cover kart if rain really becomes an issue for you. but beware if you go rilla to deal with rain: the magic of corv is that it also walls out comfey/clef lacking fire coverage once you manage to poison them with nihilego so you're not constantly shuffling between mons and taking a bunch of chip waiting for toxic dmg to kill them. i initially ran timid kart over nihil, but i needed more special attakcers, and nihil is cooler covers cosmic power unaware clef/acts as soft improofing to your own clef if impform mew copies it. evs are obviously tailored to get speed boosts with its ability, so it can snowball pretty quickly especially if the opposing team lacks a steel type that can wall it out (most of which can't switch into +1 meteor beam -> +1 power gem -> +2 power gem; they will usually have to sac something to get it in vs nihil if it finds an opening and RK) or the priority sufficient to pick it off
 
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