Resource LC Viability Rankings

[The Quasar]

I'm also for a Swirlix in S-Rank. Physical (BD) and Special (CM and furthermore STAB moves, also Thunderbolt, Surf and Flamethrower) set are both very playable and dangerous (for opponent). e.g. I think this "cute" pokemon has just increased the number of second thoughts about things like to carry moves as Poison Jam/Sludge Bomb on pokemon that usually have not. Or a greater important use about steel moves. Only to fight him, I'm sure.

 

[blarajan]

swirlix = s rank, move on now :)

 

[Liquidocelot]

After abusing the crap out of it in the dark horse thread i would like to nominate wynaut for B rank as it is a fantastic poke. The ability shadow tag and trapping are so rare that thats a plus and it can revenge many threats currently in the meta. With nice invested bulk of 24/14/15 and eviolite it can take many hits (besides knock off) and counter coat away and with encore set up sweepers are not really a problem either as you can just encore then switch to a counter. Destiny bond also makes sure you aint going down in vain and allows you to play great mind tricks with the opponent. All that being said wynaut has his flaws such as needing a lot of brains and prediction to use and being weak to the commin dark type moves of the tiers *cough cough* knock off *cough cough*. Overall with wynauts great bulk and movepool that go well with its ability it deserves b rank and i dont see *puts on sunglasses* wynaut.....
Please dont kill me.
Edit: also with yanmas ban it no linger fears the bug buzz and is no longer set up fodder for it.

 

[Darkamber8828]

ok yeah speaking of pokemon that deserve promotions

charmander with sun is the most powerful attacker in little cup except darumakka and it literally 2hkos everything except tyrunt, tirtouga, munchlax, flash fire ponyta / houndour, and omanyte

252+ SpA Solar Power Charmander Fire Blast vs. 212 HP / 76 SpD Eviolite Spritzee in Sun: 22-27 (81.4 - 100%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Solar Power Charmander Fire Blast vs. 156 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Gligar in Sun: 24-28 (96 - 112%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO

It's pretty damn strong. And that's Scarf. Life Orb lets it 2HKO every Water-type in the tier (except Tirtouga and Omanyte) with just Fire Blast, although Ancientpower, HP Grass, and HP Electric already destroy most of them anyway. And it gets Flame Charge. And 16 speed with Modest.

It's good, I swear.

 

[Liquidocelot]

ok yeah speaking of pokemon that deserve promotions

charmander with sun is the most powerful attacker in little cup except darumakka and it literally 2hkos everything except tyrunt, tirtouga, munchlax, flash fire ponyta / houndour, and omanyte

252+ SpA Solar Power Charmander Fire Blast vs. 212 HP / 76 SpD Eviolite Spritzee in Sun: 22-27 (81.4 - 100%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Solar Power Charmander Fire Blast vs. 156 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Gligar in Sun: 24-28 (96 - 112%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO

It's pretty damn strong. And that's Scarf. Life Orb lets it 2HKO every Water-type in the tier (except Tirtouga and Omanyte) with just Fire Blast, although Ancientpower, HP Grass, and HP Electric already destroy most of them anyway. And it gets Flame Charge. And 16 speed with Modest.

It's good, I swear.

While all that is true charmander is incredibly frail easily outsped by faster scarfers solar power makes it lose its hp fast making it incredibly vulnerable to priority and if you life orb it it loses 25% of its hp a turn. Last but not least he cant switch in to anything that being said he does probably deserve d for his ability to have nothing switch in on him but a select few.

 

[Darkamber8828]

While all that is true charmander is incredibly frail easily outsped by faster scarfers solar power makes it lose its hp fast making it incredibly vulnerable to priority and if you life orb it it loses 25% of its hp a turn. Last but not least he cant switch in to anything that being said he does probably deserve d for his ability to have nothing switch in on him but a select few.

how many things run scarf and are faster than charmander

gastly, misdreavus, gligar?

missy and gligar both rarely run scarf because they have better things to be doing, gastly is barely ever seen period

it is really frail though yeah

but...

it literally OHKOs anything that doesn't resist it without a boost, which is REALLY cool, so that's ok, i think :>

 

[Expulso]

Yeah, Fake Out kinda screws it over, damaging it, wasting a turn of sun, and making it take Solar Power recoil.

However, I believe it deserves at least B-rank; although it requires quite a bit of support, it is very rewarding.

 

[Liquidocelot]

Yeah, Fake Out kinda screws it over, damaging it, wasting a turn of sun, and making it take Solar Power recoil.

However, I believe it deserves at least B-rank; although it requires quite a bit of support, it is very rewarding.

C rank at the highest lets not forget its also stealth rock weak on top of its other flaws and is set up fodder for tirtouga a common sturdy smasher.

how many things run scarf and are faster than charmander

gastly, misdreavus, gligar?

missy and gligar both rarely run scarf because they have better things to be doing, gastly is barely ever seen period

it is really frail though yeah

but...

it literally OHKOs anything that doesn't resist it without a boost, which is REALLY cool, so that's ok, i think :>

all of those things out speed it plus anything scarfed with 18 speed (usually less as he cant afford to run timid) and scarf chinchou who can outspeed and ko after some solar power damage.

 

[Darkamber8828]

gastly is literally the only 18 speeder in little cup, and all scarf chinchou are modest

252+ SpA Life Orb Solar Power Charmander Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Chinchou in Sun: 22-27 (91.6 - 112.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Solar Power Charmander Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Chinchou in Sun: 21-26 (87.5 - 108.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

 

[Liquidocelot]

gastly is literally the only 18 speeder in little cup, and all scarf chinchou are modest

Yes and like i said scarf mander should be modest to lest it loses that immense power

Edit: I'm not saying he's bad I'm just saying he deserves C at most as he requires a lot of support.

 

[Expulso]

It is outsped by:
- +2 Tirtouga
- +2 Dwebble
- +2 Swirlix
- +2 Drifloon
- Scarf Gligar
- Scarf Taillow
- Scarf Ponyta (also has Flash Fire)
- Scarf Gastly
- Scarf Deerling (this amuses me)
- Scarf Doduo (#newmeta)
- Scarf Minccino
If Modest:
- Scarf Drilbur
- Scarf Chinchou
- Scarf Mienfoo
- Scarf Remoraid
- Scarf Sandile

Most of these are not that relevant, if at all, in the current metagame. Therefore, I reiterate my stance: Charmander for B-Rank.

 

[Liquidocelot]

Yes while it is only outsped by all of those lets not forget that it is also incredibly weak to priority some examples being...

236 Atk Murkrow Sucker Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Charmander: 16-19 (80 - 95%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

236+ Atk Pawniard Sucker Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Charmander: 16-21 (80 - 105%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

196+ Atk Life Orb Pure Power Meditite Fake Out vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Charmander: 10-13 (50 - 65%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock +196+ Atk Life Orb Pure Power Meditite Bullet Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Charmander: 5-6 (25 - 30%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock = a ko after stealth rock and a ko without sr after solar power damage

Overall while charmander doesnt deserve my orignal d ranking he does not deserve b either as he requires a lot of support.

 

[Expulso]

B Rank:
Reserved for Pokemon who are great in the LC metagame. These Pokemon have more notable flaws than of those above it that affects how they function in the tier. Their positive traits still outshine their negatives, but they require a bit more team support to bring out their full potential.

C Rank:
Reserved for Pokemon that have notable niches in the LC metagame, but have just as notable flaws that prevent them from being effective. Pokemon in the C tier often require significant support to be effective in LC. C rank Pokemon tend to face a lot of competition with the more commonly used Pokemon.

I'd say 2HKOing almost every Pokemon in the LC Metagame is "great in the LC Metagame". Being set-up fodder for Tirtouga is not enough to rob it of its rightful place in B Rank.

 

[Liquidocelot]

I'd say 2HKOing almost every Pokemon in the LC Metagame is "great in the LC Metagame". Being set-up fodder for Tirtouga is not enough to rob it of its rightful place in B Rank.

Just because it can 2hko the entire meta does not make it B rank darumaka can 2hko the entire meta and he is rather comparable (besides being physical) and is not B rank and the fact is a lot of things can take one f-blast and ko back due to charmanders frailty and a lot of things can easily check the fire lizard along with him being able to only run one viable set (Scarf is frail but LO is way to frail) and is not b-rank material if b was split then maybe b- or if c was was split definite c+ but not b. Also yay my hundredth post.

 

[Expulso]

The point of being able to 2HKO the entire meta: nothing can switch in (except for the aforementioned Pokemon, most of which are quad-resists). This makes it almost guaranteed to get 1 kill, and as I said in post #120, only a few Pokemon that can outspeed are viable now.

Darumaka's attacks are at 80% accuracy, and it takes Flare Blitz recoil. This makes it even more frail.

Overall, i believe that Charmander's power and speed could put it in A rank, but the team support required causes it to fall to B.

 

[dcae]

I agree witg liquidocelot on the placement of charmander. Despite the greatness of the user and the swagginess of the pokemon, it requires a large amount of team support to be successful.

I quote: Pokemon in C rank often require significant support to be effective.

Charnander needs Sun, spin/defog, and something to takke prioirty.

It should be C rank.

 

[The Avalanches]

I stoically believe Honedge should be at least B-Rank. It can outspeed anything unscarfed after an Automize and can hit the likes of Pawniard, Swirlix and Meditite for super-effective damage. While it may have some glaring weaknesses, it has a great physical defense stat, further bolstered by Eviolite and really doesn't need that much support to be a competent offensive threat.

 

[Kappaten]

I stoically believe Honedge should be at least B-Rank. It can outspeed anything unscarfed after an Automize and can hit the likes of Pawniard, Swirlix and Meditite for super-effective damage. While it may have some glaring weaknesses, it has a great physical defense stat, further bolstered by Eviolite and really doesn't need that much support to be a competent offensive threat.

I'm inclined to disagree. Dark coverage is very common, and the only offensive threat it can reliably check is Meditite, since you will only very rarely see it run fire punch, which is a testament to how poor Honedge really is. C-rank seems fine for it.

 

[Liquidocelot]

After abusing the crap out of it in the dark horse thread i would like to nominate wynaut for B rank as it is a fantastic poke. The ability shadow tag and trapping are so rare that thats a plus and it can revenge many threats currently in the meta. With nice invested bulk of 24/14/15 and eviolite it can take many hits (besides knock off) and counter coat away and with encore set up sweepers are not really a problem either as you can just encore then switch to a counter. Destiny bond also makes sure you aint going down in vain and allows you to play great mind tricks with the opponent. All that being said wynaut has his flaws such as needing a lot of brains and prediction to use and being weak to the commin dark type moves of the tiers *cough cough* knock off *cough cough*. Overall with wynauts great bulk and movepool that go well with its ability it deserves b rank and i dont see *puts on sunglasses* wynaut.....
Please dont kill me.
Edit: also with yanmas ban it no linger fears the bug buzz and is no longer set up fodder for it.

Just wanted to bring this up again kinda got swept aside by the charmander discussion so yeah...

 

[ryan]

I'm not putting Charmander in B-rank. That'd be like Rampardos being in B-rank in the OU viability thread because it can 2HKO everything. Not only that, but you have to 1. set up the sun, 2. get Charmander in safely, and 3. hope to god that the opponent didn't bring any priority before you start spamming Fire Blast. Most of these things will not just fall into place easily. It's really hard to get a frail, Stealth Rock weak Pokemon into the game without taking severe damage or just outright dying, and it has to be at high enough HP to be able to survive some turns of Solar Power recoil. You're also forced to run Heat Rock Vulpix if you hope to get off some real damage, and having two frail Fire-types on the same team is a huge cost for running Charmander when there are other Sun sweepers that can get in more easily and don't fuck up team synergy. I'll talk it over with Raseri, but it's C at best.

In general, I'm not sure what to do with Chlorophyll sweepers anymore. I really do not feel as though they should all be B-rank because they are all very prone to priority, and in my experiences against sun since Tangela left the tier, it's not all that difficult to stall out sun turns and take out Vulpix. I feel like they should all go to C-rank, but I know that some people disagree with me. Tell me reasons for them to stay if you think they should, and if you agree that they should go, go nuts.

 

[Liquidocelot]

I'm not putting Charmander in B-rank. That'd be like Rampardos being in B-rank in the OU viability thread because it can 2HKO everything. Not only that, but you have to 1. set up the sun, 2. get Charmander in safely, and 3. hope to god that the opponent didn't bring any priority before you start spamming Fire Blast. Most of these things will not just fall into place easily. It's really hard to get a frail, Stealth Rock weak Pokemon into the game without taking severe damage or just outright dying, and it has to be at high enough HP to be able to survive some turns of Solar Power recoil. You're also forced to run Heat Rock Vulpix if you hope to get off some real damage, and having two frail Fire-types on the same team is a huge cost for running Charmander when there are other Sun sweepers that can get in more easily and don't fuck up team synergy. I'll talk it over with Raseri, but it's C at best.

In general, I'm not sure what to do with Chlorophyll sweepers anymore. I really do not feel as though they should all be B-rank because they are all very prone to priority, and in my experiences against sun since Tangela left the tier, it's not all that difficult to stall out sun turns and take out Vulpix. I feel like they should all go to C-rank, but I know that some people disagree with me. Tell me reasons for them to stay if you think they should, and if you agree that they should go, go nuts.

The only chlorophyl sweeper i think should be B is bellsprout as its fast is the best mixes attacker out of all of them has growth to set up and has priority to make it less vulnerable.

 

[Liquidocelot]

So its a no on wynaut or......?

 

[dcae]

wynaut is pretty bad in this metagame. the pokemon hit too hard, knock off is ridiculously ubiquitous; it shouldnt be higher than c rank in this metagame.

 

[Raseri]

Agreeing that all of the chlorophyll sweepers (Bellsprout included) should be C-rank now. If we add a C+/C- in the future, it would be easy to distinguish them. But none of them are really worthy of being B-rank. Sun isn't the most consistent playstyle, and a Pokemon that can literally only function for those few turns doesn't really strike me as B=rank.

Also supportign Wynaut to remain in C. It's great if you want to hard counter and remove Meditite, but everything else can use Knock Off or U-turn and GTFO.

One other thing I'd like to bring up is Koffing for B-rank. It has a great defensive typing for this metagame. With a Fighting resistance, Dark neutrality, Fairy resistance, AND Ground immunity. This makes it one of the best switch ins to most Fighting-types, as well as Belly Drum Swirlix. It gets Will-o-Wisp, Flamethrower, and a lot of other cool moves that make it worthy of being B-rank. Any thoughts on Koffing?

 

[Phemeto]

Agreeing that all of the chlorophyll sweepers (Bellsprout included) should be C-rank now. If we add a C+/C- in the future, it would be easy to distinguish them. But none of them are really worthy of being B-rank. Sun isn't the most consistent playstyle, and a Pokemon that can literally only function for those few turns doesn't really strike me as B=rank.

Also supportign Wynaut to remain in C. It's great if you want to hard counter and remove Meditite, but everything else can use Knock Off or U-turn and GTFO.

One other thing I'd like to bring up is Koffing for B-rank. It has a great defensive typing for this metagame. With a Fighting resistance, Dark neutrality, Fairy resistance, AND Ground immunity. This makes it one of the best switch ins to most Fighting-types, as well as Belly Drum Swirlix. It gets Will-o-Wisp, Flamethrower, and a lot of other cool moves that make it worthy of being B-rank. Any thoughts on Koffing?

I personally like Koffing, and i think it has a lot going for it. It has a great move pool that can be used to fit whatever block you need to (as you mentioned, it can switch in on a LOT of stuff) so it is not limited to one set. It can even function as a Scarfer with 14 speed with positive nature and 236 EV; getting it to that 21 speed scarfer group. Seems silly, but it can switch in on a LOT of stuff, peck at them with a Pain Split (Psuedo recover that can harm them, on a scarfer thats nice), or come in with Flamethrower, T-Bolt, Sludge Bomb, Dark Pulse and they all have great coverage. And of course a good ol' Destiny Bond suicide when it loses its cool.

It has a lot of tricks up its' sleeves and i feel like its very underrated right now, no one ever uses it.