Physical Mega Luke might just be the only thing that won't mind switching into Knock Off.Is there any downside at all to spamming this move constantly in battle? Even if your opponent sends out a counter to whatever Pokemon you have spamming Knock Off, that counter is going to lose their held item and be crippled the rest of the match. The only way to counter Knock Off spam is too send out Terrakion, physical Lucario, or Cobalion, and even each of these will be hurt by item loss for the rest of the match despite a temporary boost in attack.
A novel way would be to use Trick/Switcheroo and bait the opponent into losing their own item. The amount of things that can tank a Knock Off and pull this off is unfortunately sparse though, Whimsicott is the only thing I can think of off the top of my head. Things with Toxic/Flame Orb also do not mind losing their item after getting their respective status and generally take Knock Off well; for instance, Poison Heal Gliscor & Breloom or any of the myriad of Fighting types with Guts. It's a shame Sticky Hold has a sparse distribution, I mean Gastrodon gets it but no way is Knock Off bad enough to warrant giving up Storm Drain for it. But yeah there's also the already discussed Megas, Unburden, Acrobatics and Justified mons.Is there any downside at all to spamming this move constantly in battle? Even if your opponent sends out a counter to whatever Pokemon you have spamming Knock Off, that counter is going to lose their held item and be crippled the rest of the match. The only way to counter Knock Off spam is too send out Terrakion, physical Lucario, or Cobalion, and even each of these will be hurt by item loss for the rest of the match despite a temporary boost in attack.
You say that but one of Gen VI's most prominent threats with access to Knock Off is Conkeldurr. Luke is in NO WAY enjoying a Mach Punch or two, especially if guts boosted...Physical Mega Luke might just be the only thing that won't mind switching into Knock Off.
Mawile w/ Mawilite couldn't care about a knock off.Physical Mega Luke might just be the only thing that won't mind switching into Knock Off.
The same applies for loads of Megas, the problem is just how many Pokes gain access to Knock Off. Unless you have a mega that's able to deal with the Poke perfectly, you can't really switch anything in safely. Sure Mega Mawile can take it but I've seen people run Knock Off Venusaur, Krook, Landorus AND Mamoswine in OU. Wait for that EQ breh...Mawile w/ Mawilite couldn't care about a knock off.
Before M-Evo:
-1 252+ Atk Conkeldurr Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mawile: 31-37 (10.1 - 12.1%) -- possible 9HKO
After M-Evo:
252+ Atk Conkeldurr Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 34-40 (11.1 - 13.1%) -- possible 8HKO
I have to chime in Knock Off is probably the closest thing to a completely broken move this Gen between the buff to Dark offensively, it's power and how game breaking items are and the sheer bulkiness of some of the best abusers. It's like the Stealth Rock of Gen 4 where there is virtually no feasible way to deal with it besides a very exclusive select few Pokemon whilst the payoffs are completely tremendous or Scald in Gen 5.Might be a bit OTT but I really dislike knock off in the metagame. It seems to be used purely as a spam move in most cases with no need for any predictions. The BP increase is unreal. Boy did it supe up Conk though... No Aegislash you may not switch in.
Knock Off is a move fighting types have been waiting for years to be able to his ghosts reliably. I think fighting types deserved this, especially with the introduction of fairies and Talonflame.Might be a bit OTT but I really dislike knock off in the metagame. It seems to be used purely as a spam move in most cases with no need for any predictions. The BP increase is unreal. Boy did it supe up Conk though... No Aegislash you may not switch in.
Imo the BP increase was too steep. It's close to a 100 BP move now with a held item on the opposing Poke. That's CRAZY. Especially as most fighting types boast high Attack stats and don't particularly need high BP coverage moves (take the punches and fangs for example). HJK and Dynamic Punch are exceptions but HJK comes with that miss risk and DP suffers from 50% accuracy which makes it far less viable on most Pokes. A 95+ BP coverage move on already very strong fighting types seems a little OP to me, ESPECIALLY when it can completely cripple a number of well-thought-out threats in one hit AND when it's available on a massive percentage of Pokemon. Personal opinions, but worth considering nonetheless.Knock Off is a move fighting types have been waiting for years to be able to his ghosts reliably. I think fighting types deserved this, especially with the introduction of fairies and Talonflame.
But the problem here is you would have used Knock Off last gen even when it had utterly pathetic power simply because the utility of disarming your opponents item was so huge and now it retains that effect and has more power than the average high power coverage move. I sure as hell always had Knock Off in the wings just for the occasional Chansey but more so because it rendered all those Choice and Leftie users into liabilities.If I had to say one thing though, Knock Off was the biggest "f*ck you" to eviolite-Pokemon. Take Chansey for example. Considering the popularity of Knock Off, Chansey might become pretty much obsolete once again.
They didn't deserve shit.Knock Off is a move fighting types have been waiting for years to be able to his ghosts reliably. I think fighting types deserved this, especially with the introduction of fairies and Talonflame.
I agree with most of the post , knock off is a great move but not that good to effect the metagame as much as stealth rock last gen, it has limited distribution and its easily resisted by common pokemon plus many teams pack mega pokemon that cant get their stones knocked and can stomach a knock off , megas like luk , defensive venau , mawile and others.But the problem here is you would have used Knock Off last gen even when it had utterly pathetic power simply because the utility of disarming your opponents item was so huge and now it retains that effect and has more power than the average high power coverage move. I sure as hell always had Knock Off in the wings just for the occasional Chansey but more so because it rendered all those Choice and Leftie users into liabilities.
Honestly I dread the moment more people start remembering things like Ferrothorn, Gliscor, Donphan also get Knock Off. With the way those things tend to be played and how long they last they could literally disarm two thirds of your team unless you keep making the same switch in over and over again which would get predictable.
Mandibuzz is already bad enough that it's pretty much near impossible to OHKO it and Gliscor is seeing somewhat of a comeback now that Rain teams were balanced and has the benefit of being one of those Knock Off counters.
I actually think that as Gen 6 goes on you are eventually going to see most of OU consisting of things that function without their item or actually aren't affected by Knock Off whilst being powerful in their own right. Much like how most of Gen 4/5's OU consisted of stuff which generally didn't mind Stealth Rock.
That or you're going to see a lot more Substitute in which case start breaking out the Crobat's and Chandelures.
They didn't deserve shit.
The point isn't about what type deserved it or not, it's that Knock Off is ridiculously strong, permanently cripples or kills an opponent and hits virtually everything in the game. Even if Knock Off didn't exist most good fighting types would find other ways round with their usually high coverage movepools.
This is something that really worries me. Remember back in Gen IV when stealth rock was just being discovered? There were huge complaints about how SR single-handedly wiped decent pokemon off the map (Yanmega, for one). People were pretty upset at how one move completely changed the metagame. Notice that if you read a lot of OU analyses for UU/RU pokemon, one of the biggest things that gets cited is a SR weakness. At one point, people seriously considered banning the move.I actually think that as Gen 6 goes on you are eventually going to see most of OU consisting of things that function without their item or actually aren't affected by Knock Off whilst being powerful in their own right. Much like how most of Gen 4/5's OU consisted of stuff which generally didn't mind Stealth Rock.
There is no way Knock Off, or any move will ever impact the meta like SR did. Its not even a comparisonThis is something that really worries me. Remember back in Gen IV when stealth rock was just being discovered? There were huge complaints about how SR single-handedly wiped decent pokemon off the map (Yanmega, for one). People were pretty upset at how one move completely changed the metagame. Notice that if you read a lot of OU analyses for UU/RU pokemon, one of the biggest things that gets cited is a SR weakness. At one point, people seriously considered banning the move.
Was SR good? Was it bad? I really don't know. All I know is that is profoundly changed the way people played the game. It also was a huge factor in tiering. However, in the end, we decided that as radical as it was, it didn't actually make the game too over-centralized. We could still have a strategic and fun tier with Stealth Rock.
Given the increased usage of Knock Off, I think we've found the next Stealth Rock.
It's being affected, or at least mine is. Eviolite will be harder to fit in a team; so will items like the assault vest and lefties. Essentially, because it's so omnipresent I'm afraid of running pokemon who are crippled without their items.There arent pokemon dropping from OU to RU as a result of Knock Off. Team Building isnt being affected by Knock Off.
All these post comparing Knock Off to SR is over reaction
Maybe not in OU but the move is extremely popular in UU where there are more strong, physical dark types. Every team needs a dark resist that can operate without it's item. Not stealth rock levels of influence, but it is just as annoying.There is no way Knock Off, or any move will ever impact the meta like SR did. Its not even a comparison
There arent pokemon dropping from OU to RU as a result of Knock Off. Team Building isnt being affected by Knock Off.
All these post comparing Knock Off to SR is over reaction
I don't think Knock Off has had much of an impact on most of them. Jellicent was used almost primarily as an anti-rain pokemon, Metagross was already borderline UU as well, while Celebi's suffered the most from Talonflame, Mega Pinsir and Mega Charizard exisiting. Jirachi doesn't like the new Knock Off certainly, but Aegislash is probably a bigger problem for its old specially defensive set.Against pokemon holding an item other than a Mega stone
The effects of this move on the metagame can already be felt, given the astanoshingly high number of psychic and ghost types who dropped in UU, including but not limited to: Jellicent, Celebi, Metagross, Jirachi, Reuniclus and Starmie. All of them are pokemon weak to Knock Off who usually run a non-consumable item.
Aaaand it's banned. Knock Off can now be spammed.Physical Mega Luke might just be the only thing that won't mind switching into Knock Off.
252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Knock Off vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Houndoom: 81-95 (27.7 - 32.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKOMega Houndoom wouldn't mind switching into Knock Off.