Inheritance [Prime Council Elected]

[Throbulator36]

pivoting, forcing pinsir to attack directly, and whatnot. it doesnt matter if it can potentially set up, or w.e. a check requires you to have to have a safe switchin to it, this is how smogon DEFINES A CHECK. theres no discussion around it.

http://www.smogon.com/smog/issue32/checks-and-counters

take note of the definition of a check: "Pokémon A checks Pokémon B if, when Pokémon A is given a free switch into Pokémon B, Pokémon A can win every time, even under the worst case scenario, without factoring in hax."

(and no, swords dance is NOT considered a "free switch" since with priority, it handles its checks differently pinsir has less checks then say, non espeed pinsir due to such.)

and just so i make this point clear:
free: not physically restrained, obstructed, or fixed; unimpeded
switch: An exchange or a swap

so a free switch means a swap that does not restrain the user at ALL in the slightest. a scenario of which you get in freely without ANY REPERCUSSIONS BEING FACTORED IN THAT WOULD RESTRAIN THEM. a +2 espeed next turn upon being sent in is obviously NOT a free switch in terms of this definition. and dont even argue "worst case scenario" implications with me, because thats NOT what they meant by it. otherwise talonflame isnt checked by ttar because +6 brave bird(worst case scenario) will do it in. it simply means, all four of its moves, on a SAFE SWITCHIN, wont cause said pokemon to faint. espeed doesnt ohko, and it outspeeds so the other moves will do it in. without hax being affected in ANY way. (stone edge missing for example).

this isnt some "opinionated" thing, this is how smogon accepts checking and countering in terms of a definition. and clearly, OMs still follow this philosophy.

im sorry for the bold and harsh tones, but do i really need to explain this in so much detail? i figured my first post would've prevented me from doing all this by saying safe switchin. but nope.

otherwise yeah, i feel like we should retract suspecting gale wings, and pick on pinsir, altaria, and glalie first...or at least add them into this suspect or something.

I never said terrak wasn't a check I said it wasn't a very good check

Every time I see this sentiment it annoys me because it's a fundamental misunderstanding of what qualifies as broken and even to an extent overcentralizing. Ubers are broken in OU, but are fair alongside each other. BL Pokemon are broken for UU, but often underwhelming in OU. Etc. If all the top threats are broken, none of them are.

I dunno maybe you mean something different but this is what it sounds like to me and this sentiment drives me up the wall.

I thought he meant that if a broken pokemon(like stabdiggs) counters/checks broken pokemon(like a lot stabmons of stabmons sweepers) it shouldn't be kept in as glue

 

[motherlove]

... Mega Pinsir isn't here to check things, it's here to murder the entire enemy team. (And opportunistically kill things) It also finds it easy to switch in on something passive and setup, or in the case of fighting a Hyper Offense team you can let something incapable of OHKOing it take down one of your Pokemon, revenge-switch Pinsir, setup, and start killing things.

So you gave a threat to your team a free switch in and opportunity to set up. And losing to it makes it broken? I'm not even arguing the op-ness of pinsir here I'm just saying that this argument is stupid.

And yet you can't produce a hard counter to Mega Pinsir like you can for Gale Wings, making it considerably easier to sweep the entire team with Mega Pinsir, not even getting into the lack of recoil damage.

Regirock @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Recover
- Toxic

That cuts both ways. I already covered this earlier: Gale Wings provides Hyper Offense a powerful priority revenger that is reliable and places no major restraints on your team construction, while Gale Wings and Extreme Speed both place pressure on Hyper Offense teams to compensate, regardless of whether you ban Gale Wings or not. If Gale Wings is unhealthy, Mega Pinsir is even more unhealthy, since you still get the "oh this dies to Flying priority and therefore is automatically worse" aspect without the upside of every Hyper Offense team getting to have a strong revenger.

Cause y'know, atespeed and gw are the only way to rk something in the game.
Also we're trying to see if gw is broken. We're not comparing gw and atespeed. You're getting away from the point.
And I think I posted enough calcs of offensive pokemon that can handle atespeed but not gw. I'd say the pressure from gw is bigger than the pressure from atespeed because of the bigger immediate power.

Oh look Raikou can arrive fresh off a KO and OHKO Landorus-Therian with an Ice Beam. It's a weak check, exactly as I said. What was the point of this calc?

Well I think this clearly shows that 1 weak check is simply not enough to handle 2 gw. You're even saying that you have to let something die everytime to bring in raikou so if your trying to argue that you can take on flying spam with a raikou I'm sorry I just don't believe you.

 

[Anna says hi]

Welp, it's the last day of Inheritance being OMotM, so I might as well show the team that got me into the Inheritance council. The team was made very early on(it was my second inheritance team, the first being goth/glalie offense), but it still is very good. Just don't try to use it to block endless barrages of hax.

The descriptions of each mon reflect what I thought when I added them.

Hide

Quagsire (Suicune) @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 240 HP / 252 Def / 16 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Recover
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Toxic

Classic bulky water, this stops most swords dance gale wings abusers. It's a blanket check to most physical setup sweepers not named Mega Gyarados once you've revealed Unaware, and also is this team's best way of dealing with Adaptability Tyranitar and co.


Mega Altaria (Togekiss) @ Leftovers
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 188 HP / 252 Def / 68 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hyper Voice
- Flamethrower
- Roost
- Heal Bell

This is a weird choice. This could have been a mega Altaria that didn't inherit anything at all while checking Gyarados more efficiently, but I instead went with Togekiss for reasons that I forget. While it may seem odd to invest in power on a wall, the special attack EVs are outright essential in allowing this to counter Gyarados. They ensure the OHKO on Mega Gyarados after 1 use of Substitute or 1 switch-in to Stealth Rock, which can 2HKO my entire team if at +1.


(Murkrow) Chansey (F) @ Eviolite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 Def / 248 SpD / 8 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Taunt
- Toxic
- Night Shade
- Roost

This is a good stop to most dedicated hazard leads, and also has the advantage of being Chansey. I went with Murkrow because prankster Taunt and Recovery are completely invaluable in this meta, ESPECIALLY for Chansey. The 8 Speed EVs seem unnecessary but help if the opponent also has a prankster Chansey.


(Flygon) Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpD / 8 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Earth Power
- Flamethrower
- Defog
- Roost

This is one of the first sets ever theorymonned for this meta, and it hasn't really changed at all. Long story short, it's a decently bulky defogger with a shitload of resistances and weaknesses only to water and fighting. 130 Special attack is also very hard for a wall.


(Flareon) Doublade @ Eviolite
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpD / 8 Spe
Careful Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Wish
- Protect
- Iron Tail

This is one of the sets that was most criticized when I invented it. Wish from base 59 HP seems meh, and no 1-turn recovery hurts. But it is very important to have Wish to win PP stall wars, and Iron Tail's shaky accuracy doesn't matter as much when a lot of the stuff that you threaten is crippled by wisp, which you are immune to.


(Xatu) Cresselia (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Roost
- Dazzling Gleam
- Stored Power
- Calm Mind


This forms an extremely annoying core with Chansey and Suicune. Most of the other team members are here just to check specific threats or perform specific functions to the team while having reasonable survivability. This actually hits harder than you'd expect, threatening a 2HKO on Chansey at +6! When the team was made, I wanted a disgustingly bulky Magic Bouncer, and it was only after I'd been told several times that my team was too passive that I actually added Calm Mind.

I feel like this team has had a good run, and if anyone wants to copy and use it, feel free too. But don't be angry if you get an endless stall-fest.(I remember a team with a regen core and knock off chansey that would have literally lasted forever had we not agreed to leave the battle room and force a tie.)

 

[Ghoul King]

So you gave a threat to your team a free switch in and opportunity to set up. And losing to it makes it broken? I'm not even arguing the op-ness of pinsir here I'm just saying that this argument is stupid.

Stop shifting the topic. You described Mega Pinsir as qualifying as a "terrible check" by my own definition when I never said it was supposed to check things. You were pretending that talking Terrakion checking Mega Pinsir and Mega Pinsir checking who knows what are equivalent in some way that somehow shows that Mega Pinsir isn't as good/broken as I'm saying it is, which is basically the same as saying Chansey can't sweep like Keldeo so Chansey must not be as good as Keldeo, when they do completely different things.

My whole point was

-Mega Pinsir does the things Gale Wings does, only it's harder to check or counter it. As such, if Gale Wings is broken than Mega Pinsir is more broken.

-Furthermore, whatever positives to the meta Gale Wings provides are not provided as effectively by Mega Pinsir because using Mega Pinsir automatically denies you other options, so if Gale Wings/Mega Pinsir fulfills a useful role in keeping the meta healthy, Mega Pinsir only does so for teams willing to give up literally every other Mega.

-Terrakion is not a good check to Mega Pinsir because in most situations it will die to no effect, unless we're essentially assuming the Mega Pinsir player is actively retarded.

-Fin

I don't even know why you've said many of the things you've said on this topic because most of them have had nothing to do with anything I said.

Regirock @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Recover
- Toxic

Fair enough. I question whether there's more variety than this, but one is better than none.

Cause y'know, atespeed and gw are the only way to rk something in the game.

You have better answers for bulky Shell Smashers?

Also we're trying to see if gw is broken. We're not comparing gw and atespeed. You're getting away from the point.

My argument is two-fold.

1: Gale Wings is not broken.

2: If it is, Mega Pinsir is worse and should've been addressed first.

These are both completely relevant.

Well I think this clearly shows that 1 weak check is simply not enough to handle 2 gw. You're even saying that you have to let something die everytime to bring in raikou so if your trying to argue that you can take on flying spam with a raikou I'm sorry I just don't believe you.

Been meaning to drop the rest of my Protean spam replays anyway, so here we go.

Protean Spam

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/inheritance-224091141

I make a poor decision at the start of the match (Should've just Fake Outed), but my opponent ends up forfeiting in the face of Protean's awesomeness.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/inheritance-224094377

In which me and my opponent both open by Tricking Choice items onto each other, accomplishing nothing. Good match though.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/inheritance-224096295

Hazards and Tricking saves the day!

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/inheritance-224560270

In which Mega Aggron inheriting from Mew is pure evil.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/inheritance-224799602

It was pretty fun.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/inheritance-224843482

Because obviously it is very helpful for me to Trick away my Specs onto Desolate Land Heatran. Still won.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/inheritance-224844556

In which xJownage sucks. No wait, I mean in which I fight XJownage sucks. Which is an alt. Of XJownage.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/inheritance-224846199

In which I botch the ending. Too bad.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/inheritance-224998942

In which I fight Jernmax and there is talking and he forfeits because half his team is either dead or crippled. (And also I have hazards up and he forgot hazard control)

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/inheritance-225002268

In which Protean shows its value against stallmons. Also I fight Protean Haxorus again -I'm starting to wonder if I popularized that or something, because I didn't see it before I did it.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/inheritance-225005944

In which Lucario inheriting from Blaziken ultimately sweeps me.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/inheritance-225007257

In which my opponent is an extremely sore loser.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/inheritance-225037446

In which it is displayed how Fake Out is a wonderful way to deal with Extreme Speed.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/inheritance-225084698

Protean Gimmick VS Eevee Gimmick: Which shall be the victor?

...

Protean Gimmick.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/inheritance-226634230

Very close match against an opponent with their own Protean Haxorus.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/inheritance-226804898

In which I win with one Pokemon with 2 HP remaining. Holy crap.

It is worth commentary that I forgot to count Mega Altaria as another weak check. Really, most of the team is weak checks to Gale Wings now that I think about it.... Raikou is the closest to a strong check, though, and still isn't actually a strong check, and Gale Wings was never a big deal for me.

 

[Snaquaza]

I'd like you all to stop talking about Mega-Pinsir. I'm sorry for not contributing more to the issue, but really. This suspect is about Gale Wings. It doesn't matter right now if anything is more broken, if Gale Wings is broken it'll be banned, and then Pinsir can follow.

 

[Lcass4919]

Every time I see this sentiment it annoys me because it's a fundamental misunderstanding of what qualifies as broken and even to an extent overcentralizing. Ubers are broken in OU, but are fair alongside each other. BL Pokemon are broken for UU, but often underwhelming in OU. Etc. If all the top threats are broken, none of them are.

I dunno maybe you mean something different but this is what it sounds like to me and this sentiment drives me up the wall.

fair enough. lets unban wonder guard then. since "if every top threat is broken, none of them are". so in theory, if everything uses wonder guard shedinja, then NOTHING is broken, since the meta would coil around it, making it manageable.

..there is clearly a fine line between "broken checking broken" and "a bunch of strong threats in a meta beating eachother up" not implying anything about this suspect, im just saying.

 

[I like donkeys]

This argument isn't really contributing anything to the thread so its probably best if we all dropped this. Like Snaq said Mega Pinsir is similarly potent to Gale Wings, so if GW gets banned then chances are MPinsir will be on a similar road.

 

[Ghoul King]

fair enough. lets unban wonder guard then. since "if every top threat is broken, none of them are". so in theory, if everything uses wonder guard shedinja, then NOTHING is broken, since the meta would coil around it, making it manageable.

..there is clearly a fine line between "broken checking broken" and "a bunch of strong threats in a meta beating eachother up" not implying anything about this suspect, im just saying.

... that scenario does not follow from my statement. Wonder Guard being heritable would be one thing standing head-and-shoulders above pretty much everything else -about the only other thing similarly broken would be allowing people to inherit from Smeargle- to the point that a team that didn't include a Shedinja inheritor would be literally brain-damaged, regardless of playstyle, teammates, etc.

A collection of top-tier threats =/= a single thing that's overwhelmingly better than most/all other options.

Re: the suspect: I still don't see Gale Wings as deserving the banhammer. The primary argument is that it hurts Hyper Offense (Unless Snaquaza meant something else by "offense"), and whatever extent this is true I feel is counterbalanced by the utility it provides to Hyper Offense.

 

[xJownage]

Re: the suspect: I still don't see Gale Wings as deserving the banhammer. The primary argument is that it hurts Hyper Offense (Unless Snaquaza meant something else by "offense"), and whatever extent this is true I feel is counterbalanced by the utility it provides to Hyper Offense.

Furthermore, MANY of the HO players around here have no problem with Gale Wings and actually will look forward to the opponent clicking brave bird, since it gives us free momentum.

 

[Esprite]

Furthermore, MANY of the HO players around here have no problem with Gale Wings and actually will look forward to the opponent clicking brave bird, since it gives us free momentum.

I have a particular set that basically requires faster priority in order to stop it:
Banded. Without the low attack in the way, the choice band isn't a liability, and makes OHKOs happen like, boom!

Speaking of Banded, I have a Garchomp that inherits from MegaLuke, getting ridiculous damage off.

 

[xJownage]

I have a particular set that basically requires faster priority in order to stop it:
Banded. Without the low attack in the way, the choice band isn't a liability, and makes OHKOs happen like, boom!

Speaking of Banded, I have a Garchomp that inherits from MegaLuke, getting ridiculous damage off.

I prefer terrakion megaluke.

Are you referring to banded aerodactyl? I hate that thing but I can still beat it because its damage output is pretty meh.

 

[Throbulator36]

I have a particular set that basically requires faster priority in order to stop it:
Banded. Without the low attack in the way, the choice band isn't a liability, and makes OHKOs happen like, boom!

Speaking of Banded, I have a Garchomp that inherits from MegaLuke, getting ridiculous damage off.

They're well aware of the banded set since that was the reason provided for the suspect

 

[Lcass4919]

They're well aware of the banded set since that was the reason provided for the suspect

im pretty sure he was saying that banded gale wings ohkos literally every common hyper offensive pokemon. and the ones that it doesn't, either 2hkoed, or just misses it (in megagross' case if its not inheriting from gene). i'm pretty sure what jownage was saying, is hyper offense runs priority that outprioritizes brave bird. (for example, pinsir/weavile) because enless you sac a pokemon each time it switches in, i dont really see how otherwise HO would "look forward" to lando spamming BB. since the bulkiest pokemon HO can afford to run, compromises its mega slot, alongside still being 2hkoed given you run genegross. so im guessing thats the reason.

 

[Funbot28]

Where will this be playable now?

 

[InfernapeTropius11]

Where will this be playable now?

It should be playable over on Snaquaza's server, Aqua (Aqua.psim.us)

 

[qways]

Since i wont play this meta without a ladder (seriously this meta should get a ladder in smogon), i show what team i used to ladder this month, i got 50 wins and 11 losses with it and peaked rank 5 or so. At first i used mega gardevoir instead of medicham but changed to medicham because he had priority. Lando was my other wallbreakeer that also ahd priority while wweaviele was there to rape offensive teams. Suicune heatran and celebi were my defensive fwg core. Except for Gardevoir -> medicham i havent changed anything from the beginning.

Hide

Medicham @ Medichamite
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 104 HP / 252 Atk / 152 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Crunch
- ExtremeSpeed
- Swords Dance

Landorus-Therian (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- Roost
- U-turn

Suicune @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Recover
- Ice Beam
- Toxic

Weavile @ Life Orb
Ability: Refrigerate
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Return
- Crunch
- Earthquake
- Ice Shard

Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 16 SpA / 244 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flamethrower
- Roost
- Defog
- Earth Power

Celebi @ Leftovers
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 248 HP / 108 SpA / 152 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Leaf Storm
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Dragon Pulse
- Synthesis

Some replays
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/inheritance-227787258 won a difficult match up with lots predicts.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/inheritance-226992279 again outpredicting the enemy
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/inheritance-226725428 was haxed at turn 10 but won against stall
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/inheritance-225707008 weavile beating offense

 

[Imperator Romanum]

Since i wont play this meta without a ladder (seriously this meta should get a ladder in smogon), i show what team i used to ladder this month, i got 50 wins and 11 losses with it and peaked rank 5 or so. At first i used mega gardevoir instead of medicham but changed to medicham because he had priority. Lando was my other wallbreakeer that also ahd priority while wweaviele was there to rape offensive teams. Suicune heatran and celebi were my defensive fwg core. Except for Gardevoir -> medicham i havent changed anything from the beginning.

Hide

Medicham @ Medichamite
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 104 HP / 252 Atk / 152 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Crunch
- ExtremeSpeed
- Swords Dance

Landorus-Therian (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- Roost
- U-turn

Suicune @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Recover
- Ice Beam
- Toxic

Weavile @ Life Orb
Ability: Refrigerate
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Return
- Crunch
- Earthquake
- Ice Shard

Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 16 SpA / 244 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flamethrower
- Roost
- Defog
- Earth Power

Celebi @ Leftovers
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 248 HP / 108 SpA / 152 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Leaf Storm
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Dragon Pulse
- Synthesis

Some replays
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/inheritance-227787258 won a difficult match up with lots predicts.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/inheritance-226992279 again outpredicting the enemy
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/inheritance-226725428 was haxed at turn 10 but won against stall
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/inheritance-225707008 weavile beating offense

You had the worst attitude ever. You got haxed turn 10? I burned you yeah, but you crit my Cresselia. I don't have a lot to say about your team.

 

[Froggyboy]

words

Congrats on your rank, but you need to work on some things.
Firstly, two of those replays aren't even showing anything.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/inheritance-226992279
In this one, you didn't even need to predict. I mean, great, you predicted the High Jump Kick Regirock to switch out against a Medicham, plus even if he didn't switch, you still would've gotten up that SD and swept.
252+ Atk Regirock Stone Edge vs. 104 HP / 0 Def Mega Medicham: 85-101 (29.6 - 35.1%) -- 17.3% chance to 3HKO
Set-up Fodder.
Plus your opponent wasn't that great, I mean Sash Glare Latios? High Jump Kick Regirock?
And this one
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/inheritance-225707008
It should be obvious why this replay should be taken seriously. Your opponent forfeited Turn 2, and again they weren't the greatest opponent. The tier is filled with Ice resists yet your opponent had one, which he didn't even bother to switch in, plus that doesn't even seem like offense. 3 offensive mons and 3 defensive mons sound like Balance.

Plus against Jernmax, you complain of hax yet you crit his Cress, which basically walled most of your team, except for Weavile, which he had both Suicune and Regirock for. Plus assuming it was Magic Bounce, you couldn't status it anyway, except with a burn, which isn't a big deal. Missing Toxic sucked I guess, but he could just switch between Suicune and Goodra to stall instead of just staying in with Suicune.

But either way, work on your attitude, being high on the ladder doesn't mean you can act like an asshole to everyone. Cool team, but yeah, no one will care for your rank if you are just a dick.

 

[I like donkeys]

Since i wont play this meta without a ladder (seriously this meta should get a ladder in smogon), i show what team i used to ladder this month, i got 50 wins and 11 losses with it and peaked rank 5 or so. At first i used mega gardevoir instead of medicham but changed to medicham because he had priority. Lando was my other wallbreakeer that also ahd priority while wweaviele was there to rape offensive teams. Suicune heatran and celebi were my defensive fwg core. Except for Gardevoir -> medicham i havent changed anything from the beginning.

Hide

Medicham @ Medichamite
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 104 HP / 252 Atk / 152 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Crunch
- ExtremeSpeed
- Swords Dance

Landorus-Therian (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- Roost
- U-turn

Suicune @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Recover
- Ice Beam
- Toxic

Weavile @ Life Orb
Ability: Refrigerate
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Return
- Crunch
- Earthquake
- Ice Shard

Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 16 SpA / 244 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flamethrower
- Roost
- Defog
- Earth Power

Celebi @ Leftovers
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 248 HP / 108 SpA / 152 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Leaf Storm
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Dragon Pulse
- Synthesis

Some replays
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/inheritance-227787258 won a difficult match up with lots predicts.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/inheritance-226992279 again outpredicting the enemy
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/inheritance-226725428 was haxed at turn 10 but won against stall
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/inheritance-225707008 weavile beating offense

★qways: scald regirock lol
★qways: how dumb
★qways: its not water
★AllJokesAside: you're very good at observing

lel

Anyway your team could use some improvements. My biggest concern is Celebi. I guess Celebi has pretty good stats all around but i'm not sure it's the best for a sweeping role thanks to its relatively low speed, and it's added psychic typing doesn't help that much as it makes it weak to koff and sucker punch. To be fair tho you probably use it more as a wallbreaker than anything else. However there is one thing im certain of and that is substitute will be a great option for Celebi, as it helps to avoid status and the priority Celebi loathes.
While not a direct improvement, U-turn could be a good option for Heatran, it provides momentum what is always cool, and the amount of levitators and flyers in this tier make earthpower not as useful as it could be.

Huh, I swear there were more problems with your team, i guess that's all the advice i have for your team. The only other things i have to say is that Gale Wings may be banned in the near future so you might want to plan a new Pokemon for that teamslot, and that you shouldn't be so rude in battles :(

 

[Akumeoy]

Since i wont play this meta without a ladder (seriously this meta should get a ladder in smogon), i show what team i used to ladder this month, i got 50 wins and 11 losses with it and peaked rank 5 or so. At first i used mega gardevoir instead of medicham but changed to medicham because he had priority. Lando was my other wallbreakeer that also ahd priority while wweaviele was there to rape offensive teams. Suicune heatran and celebi were my defensive fwg core. Except for Gardevoir -> medicham i havent changed anything from the beginning.

Hide

Medicham @ Medichamite
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 104 HP / 252 Atk / 152 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Crunch
- ExtremeSpeed
- Swords Dance

Landorus-Therian (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- Roost
- U-turn

Suicune @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Recover
- Ice Beam
- Toxic

Weavile @ Life Orb
Ability: Refrigerate
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Return
- Crunch
- Earthquake
- Ice Shard

Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 16 SpA / 244 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flamethrower
- Roost
- Defog
- Earth Power

Celebi @ Leftovers
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 248 HP / 108 SpA / 152 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Leaf Storm
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Dragon Pulse
- Synthesis

Some replays
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/inheritance-227787258 won a difficult match up with lots predicts.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/inheritance-226992279 again outpredicting the enemy
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/inheritance-226725428 was haxed at turn 10 but won against stall
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/inheritance-225707008 weavile beating offense

Hahaha, oh wow. You're a total asshole. Dunno why you embarrassed yourself with those replays, they just make you look like you're twelve. And yeah, Jernmax's team would have destroyed you without that Megacham crit.

Anyways, your team is pretty unremarkable, and I suppose the predicts were well-performed (though the fourth replay is a total joke). Congrats on the ladder ranking I guess. Seconding the need for a permaladder, though -- I'd love to have this as an option going into the future.

Plus your opponent wasn't that great, I mean Sash Glare Latios? High Jump Kick Regirock?

Latios is almost certainly inheriting Mold Breaker and Glare/Stealth Rock/Taunt/Draco Meteor from Druddigon, and it's a very nice dedicated lead. The Regirock is probably a Regenerator set from Mienshao, and Regen Regirock is good. They're both valid sets. If anything, the questionable teambuilding decision is just being that weak to Megacham.

 

[Froggyboy]

I would love a permaladder, Inheritance is one of the most fun metagames I've played in a while. While it is a bit stale with Landorus and Suicune everywhere, there is tons of creativity you can use, like giving a Pokemon with a crap movepool and ability a great ability and movepool, making it a beast. I mean, Ursaring, a Pokemon you would laugh at in regular OU, is at the same level as freaking Mega Charizard X and Gengar. Plus I feel there is a bunch of untapped creativity that would go to waste having be playable in Custom Game and in different servers(no offense). Like I use a Floatzel and Swellow on my team, and they serve their roles pretty well. Floatzel inherits from Crawdaunt, leaving it hitting super hard with STAB, boosting power in SD, and great 115 speed. And Swellow is used as a suicide lead, having the highest Speed for a legal Normal type with the strongest Explosion. Of course, they aren't that good, but still, they put in work and I feel they are viable enough to be put on certain teams.
Inheritance is something that is so simple, yet so genius and fun, and should stick around with a permaladder.

Plus idk why you would run HJK on Regirock, I guess to hit Levitate Rhyperior?

 

[Imperator Romanum]

God, I'd really love for this to become perma ladder. It has so much untapped potential! Eviolite goomy really did come up with some neat strategies and sets, Copycat & encore + prankster Drapion and Mandibuzz. And my personal favourite of his, download M-altaria w/ Espeed, Technoblast, explotion & Flamethrower

Edit: I just watched the other replays. That battle against Bellecipus Breloom was disgusting. I'm not a nice guy but that was awful... He was so nice no matter what profanities you threw his way, jesus christ.

 

[xJownage]

Since i wont play this meta without a ladder (seriously this meta should get a ladder in smogon), i show what team i used to ladder this month, i got 50 wins and 11 losses with it and peaked rank 5 or so. At first i used mega gardevoir instead of medicham but changed to medicham because he had priority. Lando was my other wallbreakeer that also ahd priority while wweaviele was there to rape offensive teams. Suicune heatran and celebi were my defensive fwg core. Except for Gardevoir -> medicham i havent changed anything from the beginning.

Hide

Medicham @ Medichamite
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 104 HP / 252 Atk / 152 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Crunch
- ExtremeSpeed
- Swords Dance

Landorus-Therian (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- Roost
- U-turn

Suicune @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Recover
- Ice Beam
- Toxic

Weavile @ Life Orb
Ability: Refrigerate
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Return
- Crunch
- Earthquake
- Ice Shard

Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 16 SpA / 244 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flamethrower
- Roost
- Defog
- Earth Power

Celebi @ Leftovers
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 248 HP / 108 SpA / 152 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Leaf Storm
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Dragon Pulse
- Synthesis

Some replays
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/inheritance-227787258 won a difficult match up with lots predicts.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/inheritance-226992279 again outpredicting the enemy
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/inheritance-226725428 was haxed at turn 10 but won against stall
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/inheritance-225707008 weavile beating offense

You think this team is good? Quit being cocky. Anybody can pile together a couple of centralizing mons and win battles on the ladder. Doesn't make you good, sorry. You have no right to act like such an asshole to people on the ladder. I beat the shit out of people on there all the time. You know what I do? I try to help them by giving them suggestions, linking them to the viability rankings and the thread, and all around trying to increase their knowledge of the metagame so they become better players.

Since you feel like you are better than the ladder people, let me criticize your team.

1. Why are you running crunch over bullet punch? Unaware cress beats you either way:
252+ Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 204-240 (45.9 - 54%) -- 3.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
and thats its only target, and by contrary, you beat a lot of offensive mons such as mega diancie, intimidate aerodactyl, etc. Double priority is the main reason medicham is so good.

2. Roost on lando-t. So much is wrong with this. Roost is a mediocre choice, if you are going to choice lock yourself into something, make it will-o-wisp or tailwind since wisp beats up on many counters and tailwind is great team support.

3. Why are you using max speed landorus-t? Move the speed into bulk and all the sudden you get more opportunities to BB and you are harder to RK. The only reason to invest max speed in lant is if you use jolly, but then you would just want to use salamence's subsd set.

4. If you are concerned about unaware cune being overpowered by boosted mega gyarados and things of the like, use haze over ice beam. TBH its a better option, unaware cune doesn't fear gale wings besides banded variants, which it doesn't counter anyways without intimidate.

5. Why the hell are you running earthquake on weavile? What does that hit? I'll tell you - nothing important. Non-levitran variants are all scarf, or MAYBE air balloon. They outspeed weavile anyways, so there is no point in using earthquake. Slap on explosion; its literally a killswitch on everything not named suicune. Hell, even unaware suicune takes over half (52.7 - 62.1%). It can kill stuff like tyranitar, terrakion, and fat balance mons like diancie.

6. Levitran is too passive atm if it doesn't run u-turn. It will get eaten alive by setup and other powerful mons. So change that to u-turn.

7. Celebi isn't very good to begin with, but contrary celebi? No. Sorry, no. Doesn't break stall teams that pack unaware cress and a myriad of checks such as AV entei and the like. Doesn't beat offense since anything faster thats good rapes its life (weavile, for example). Super priority weak (gale wings says hi, as well as the -ate megas not named mega altaria). Balance can check it. just no. NO.

Problems with the build:
1. Super weak to standard stall teams. Literally eaten alive because it has no true stallbreaker. Celebi and Medicham are the only things really doing work against it, and they are both checked/countered somewhat easily by all good stall teams.

2. Banded gale wings has no counters on this team besides unaware cune, which is only a check. Weavile can revenge but a balance team like this needs a solid counter.

3. Deso scarftran runs over a good portion of this team with proper predictions.

4. Terrakion sets that can 2hko suicune (a good portion of them) give this team fits as well.

5. Heatran is easy to take advantage of so your hazard support is only semi-reliable.

6. No hazards of your own to set.

7. Lack of defensive presence for a team running unaware suicune, the lack of a backbone means well made HO teams can run through the build.


Okay i'm done criticizing this because its giving me a headache. This is why Oms have a bad name for its playerbase. Its not because we follow slightly different principles as standard metagames. Its not because we like to make problems where they don't exist. Its because there is a portion of our playerbase that is really, really cocky and condescending and think because they have a good ladder record or whatever that they have the right to look down on everybody. Newcomers who don't get into the OM room don't stay around long because of these little bitches and I'm sick of it.


Om players: If you are reading this, swallow your fucking pride and quit making the OM playerbase look like a bunch of assholes. Help newcomers. Compliment better foes on their skills, while helping them even more if you can. Unite your knowledge of various metagames and make everybody better. But quit acting like you are the best and everybody else can suck your dick just because you are good at x metagame. This attitude is the reason we have a smaller playerbase, as the OM community, than standard metagames. We can't go around talking down to people who aren't very good, and acting like assholes to good players just makes them sour and compounds the problem. If this doesn't stop, I will personally talk you down or chase you away before I continue to watch this community earn its bad name.

 

[Mr155551]

You think this team is good? Quit being cocky. Anybody can pile together a couple of centralizing mons and win battles on the ladder. Doesn't make you good, sorry. You have no right to act like such an asshole to people on the ladder. I beat the shit out of people on there all the time. You know what I do? I try to help them by giving them suggestions, linking them to the viability rankings and the thread, and all around trying to increase their knowledge of the metagame so they become better players.

Since you feel like you are better than the ladder people, let me criticize your team.

1. Why are you running crunch over bullet punch? Unaware cress beats you either way:
252+ Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 204-240 (45.9 - 54%) -- 3.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
and thats its only target, and by contrary, you beat a lot of offensive mons such as mega diancie, intimidate aerodactyl, etc. Double priority is the main reason medicham is so good.

2. Roost on lando-t. So much is wrong with this. Roost is a mediocre choice, if you are going to choice lock yourself into something, make it will-o-wisp or tailwind since wisp beats up on many counters and tailwind is great team support.

3. Why are you using max speed landorus-t? Move the speed into bulk and all the sudden you get more opportunities to BB and you are harder to RK. The only reason to invest max speed in lant is if you use jolly, but then you would just want to use salamence's subsd set.

4. If you are concerned about unaware cune being overpowered by boosted mega gyarados and things of the like, use haze over ice beam. TBH its a better option, unaware cune doesn't fear gale wings besides banded variants, which it doesn't counter anyways without intimidate.

5. Why the hell are you running earthquake on weavile? What does that hit? I'll tell you - nothing important. Non-levitran variants are all scarf, or MAYBE air balloon. They outspeed weavile anyways, so there is no point in using earthquake. Slap on explosion; its literally a killswitch on everything not named suicune. Hell, even unaware suicune takes over half (52.7 - 62.1%). It can kill stuff like tyranitar, terrakion, and fat balance mons like diancie.

6. Levitran is too passive atm if it doesn't run u-turn. It will get eaten alive by setup and other powerful mons. So change that to u-turn.

7. Celebi isn't very good to begin with, but contrary celebi? No. Sorry, no. Doesn't break stall teams that pack unaware cress and a myriad of checks such as AV entei and the like. Doesn't beat offense since anything faster thats good rapes its life (weavile, for example). Super priority weak (gale wings says hi, as well as the -ate megas not named mega altaria). Balance can check it. just no. NO.

Problems with the build:
1. Super weak to standard stall teams. Literally eaten alive because it has no true stallbreaker. Celebi and Medicham are the only things really doing work against it, and they are both checked/countered somewhat easily by all good stall teams.

2. Banded gale wings has no counters on this team besides unaware cune, which is only a check. Weavile can revenge but a balance team like this needs a solid counter.

3. Deso scarftran runs over a good portion of this team with proper predictions.

4. Terrakion sets that can 2hko suicune (a good portion of them) give this team fits as well.

5. Heatran is easy to take advantage of so your hazard support is only semi-reliable.

6. No hazards of your own to set.

7. Lack of defensive presence for a team running unaware suicune, the lack of a backbone means well made HO teams can run through the build.


Okay i'm done criticizing this because its giving me a headache. This is why Oms have a bad name for its playerbase. Its not because we follow slightly different principles as standard metagames. Its not because we like to make problems where they don't exist. Its because there is a portion of our playerbase that is really, really cocky and condescending and think because they have a good ladder record or whatever that they have the right to look down on everybody. Newcomers who don't get into the OM room don't stay around long because of these little bitches and I'm sick of it.


Om players: If you are reading this, swallow your fucking pride and quit making the OM playerbase look like a bunch of assholes. Help newcomers. Compliment better foes on their skills, while helping them even more if you can. Unite your knowledge of various metagames and make everybody better. But quit acting like you are the best and everybody else can suck your dick just because you are good at x metagame. This attitude is the reason we have a smaller playerbase, as the OM community, than standard metagames. We can't go around talking down to people who aren't very good, and acting like assholes to good players just makes them sour and compounds the problem. If this doesn't stop, I will personally talk you down or chase you away before I continue to watch this community earn its bad name.

TL/DR but the point has been proven

 

[Lcass4919]

Okay i'm done criticizing this because its giving me a headache. This is why Oms have a bad name for its playerbase. Its not because we follow slightly different principles as standard metagames. Its not because we like to make problems where they don't exist. Its because there is a portion of our playerbase that is really, really cocky and condescending and think because they have a good ladder record or whatever that they have the right to look down on everybody. Newcomers who don't get into the OM room don't stay around long because of these little bitches and I'm sick of it.


Om players: If you are reading this, swallow your fucking pride and quit making the OM playerbase look like a bunch of assholes. Help newcomers. Compliment better foes on their skills, while helping them even more if you can. Unite your knowledge of various metagames and make everybody better. But quit acting like you are the best and everybody else can suck your dick just because you are good at x metagame. This attitude is the reason we have a smaller playerbase, as the OM community, than standard metagames. We can't go around talking down to people who aren't very good, and acting like assholes to good players just makes them sour and compounds the problem. If this doesn't stop, I will personally talk you down or chase you away before I continue to watch this community earn its bad name.

jownage with all due respect, you cant go around saying these things right after you post this very thing your telling people not to do. "We can't go around talking down to people who aren't very good" what would you call this entire post you just created. sure this guy is obviously not a bad player given hes #9 on the ladder, but regardless you shouldn't be insulting him, even if he was a complete dick to everyone, that doesn't suddenly make insulting him justifiable. i agree with you that we should be acting more mature on how we treat the newcomers. but at the same time, that doesn't give us the right to just attack someone who's riding their high horse, or at least not so violently like we are all doing. i'm just saying, don't tell people to be mature while you are losing your cool in that very same post. at least try to look more sophisticated. i know i'm probably not the best person to be telling you this, being that I've fallen down this very path you talked about, but at the same time that probably makes me the best choice for saying this. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

now lets just drop this subject and get back to inheritance.