Can you offer an option to disable this BS? It messes with my on-the-spot calcs, especially when dealing with Adaptability and Fairy Aura. I can "appreciate" not having you keep a couple of neurons on tracking the current BP of Reversal, but it hinders me more than it helps most of the time.
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Approved Hide base power modifications in Hardcore Mode
- Thread starter Tramuntana
- Start date
Which of them? Literally everything? You brought up Reversal but that's not a base power modification, that's just the regular base power.
I'm not sure what this would do except forcing you to apply the exact same modifiers in your head instead of having them pre-calculated. What kind of on-the-spot calcs are you doing? Do you have an example to illustrate this?
I'm not sure what this would do except forcing you to apply the exact same modifiers in your head instead of having them pre-calculated. What kind of on-the-spot calcs are you doing? Do you have an example to illustrate this?
Lets say that it is a random battle. You know that a non STAB Icicle Crash could do 30% to a target. You want to know if an Adaptability Liquidation would KO. (Pretend this is a legal combination)
With modification: You would see a 113.05 BP move and get confused on actual base power.
Without modification: You would compare BP and double the damage of Icicle Crash, knowing you'd do ~60% quickly.
And if you have a Mystic Water, it gets worse.
With modification: gl calculating a 135.66 BP move with an odd total multiplier
Without modification: 1.2* is easier/faster to multiply with the direct percent than the BP so you'd get the 60% + 6%*2 for 72%.
You can stack multipliers even further, making BP more complex as an actual number and faster if you do it in your head. Plus multipliers like non Adaptability STAB and effectiveness are separate from BP modifiers. With mental calcs you can account for those and BP mods at the same time.
With modification: You would see a 113.05 BP move and get confused on actual base power.
Without modification: You would compare BP and double the damage of Icicle Crash, knowing you'd do ~60% quickly.
And if you have a Mystic Water, it gets worse.
With modification: gl calculating a 135.66 BP move with an odd total multiplier
Without modification: 1.2* is easier/faster to multiply with the direct percent than the BP so you'd get the 60% + 6%*2 for 72%.
You can stack multipliers even further, making BP more complex as an actual number and faster if you do it in your head. Plus multipliers like non Adaptability STAB and effectiveness are separate from BP modifiers. With mental calcs you can account for those and BP mods at the same time.
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I think the only actual concern with the above is that things like STAB aren't proper BP modifiers in the damage formula, which is a moot point since the negative consequences seem to be with relative damage calculations anyway. My understanding is that these relative base powers instead help newer players learn which moves are stronger more quickly. Let's look at the first part of your example:
Suppose we have a pure Water-type Adaptability Pokemon with Liquidation and Icicle Crash. Icicle Crash does 30% the first time. Let's look at what happens with and without showing relative base power:
With: You see an 85 BP Icicle Crash and an 170 BP Liquidation. I have no idea why it'd be showing 113.05; even if it was buggy and only accounting for normal STAB or normal Mystic Water, that would come out to 127.5 BP or 102 BP, respectively. In any case, assuming the display is correct, that's a comparison between 85 and 170, which seems very reasonably to indicate Liquidation is twice as strong and would do approximately 60%. Moreover, if I am a newer player who doesn't know what Adaptability does, I don't need to know! Instead I can compare the two moves and see Liquidation is stronger.
Without: You see an 85 BP Icicle Crash and an 85 BP Liquidation. To the uninformed who doesn't know what Adaptability does, he thinks these two moves are equal in power (though in this case he might know about STAB, but that's neither here nor there). However, there's no ambiguity and the move's raw base powers are displayed untouched.
Now, let's add Mystic Water to our calculations.
With: You see an 85 BP Icicle Crash and a 204 BP Liquidation. To compare the relative power difference between these moves, you could divide 204 by 85, see that it's 2.4 times as strong, then multiply that to our 30% from earlier to conclude Liquidation will do roughly 72%.
Without: You see an 85 BP Icicle Crash and an 85 BP Liquidation. You have to know Adaptability is a 2x boost and Mystic Water is a 1.2x boost. So you do 30%*2*1.2 to get 72%. Note that in this particular example, this only works because Icicle Crash and Liquidation have the same base power. If they didn't, you'd have to still do a division at the start of the calculation. For example, if our move was Ice Punch rather than Icicle Crash, we'd have to do 85/75, then multiply that times 30% then 2 then 1.2. Either way, it still requires mental math or some physical calculations to do.
So I think mental calculations are not significantly hindered by these sorts of relative base power displays, and instead it is a great boon to newer players unfamiliar with certain items/abilities/etc. Now, if this display is bugged (like if Adaptability Liquidation on a Water type is actually displaying 113.05 BP), then that's a bug that should be fixed, not a feature that should be removed.
Suppose we have a pure Water-type Adaptability Pokemon with Liquidation and Icicle Crash. Icicle Crash does 30% the first time. Let's look at what happens with and without showing relative base power:
With: You see an 85 BP Icicle Crash and an 170 BP Liquidation. I have no idea why it'd be showing 113.05; even if it was buggy and only accounting for normal STAB or normal Mystic Water, that would come out to 127.5 BP or 102 BP, respectively. In any case, assuming the display is correct, that's a comparison between 85 and 170, which seems very reasonably to indicate Liquidation is twice as strong and would do approximately 60%. Moreover, if I am a newer player who doesn't know what Adaptability does, I don't need to know! Instead I can compare the two moves and see Liquidation is stronger.
Without: You see an 85 BP Icicle Crash and an 85 BP Liquidation. To the uninformed who doesn't know what Adaptability does, he thinks these two moves are equal in power (though in this case he might know about STAB, but that's neither here nor there). However, there's no ambiguity and the move's raw base powers are displayed untouched.
Now, let's add Mystic Water to our calculations.
With: You see an 85 BP Icicle Crash and a 204 BP Liquidation. To compare the relative power difference between these moves, you could divide 204 by 85, see that it's 2.4 times as strong, then multiply that to our 30% from earlier to conclude Liquidation will do roughly 72%.
Without: You see an 85 BP Icicle Crash and an 85 BP Liquidation. You have to know Adaptability is a 2x boost and Mystic Water is a 1.2x boost. So you do 30%*2*1.2 to get 72%. Note that in this particular example, this only works because Icicle Crash and Liquidation have the same base power. If they didn't, you'd have to still do a division at the start of the calculation. For example, if our move was Ice Punch rather than Icicle Crash, we'd have to do 85/75, then multiply that times 30% then 2 then 1.2. Either way, it still requires mental math or some physical calculations to do.
So I think mental calculations are not significantly hindered by these sorts of relative base power displays, and instead it is a great boon to newer players unfamiliar with certain items/abilities/etc. Now, if this display is bugged (like if Adaptability Liquidation on a Water type is actually displaying 113.05 BP), then that's a bug that should be fixed, not a feature that should be removed.
for some reason i thought it accounted for the net 1.33* boost from adaptability (and not STAB)
the game currently doesn't change it for STAB even with Adaptability
edit: similar situations with other 1.33* multis like the auras
it'd take uness. time/effort but it still would help the OP
but with 204/85 it is a physical calc (unless estimating that its "over 2*") while multiplying is step by step
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The biggest pain in the butt is stuff like THIS: Moonblast base power 126.35(x1.33 from fairy aura). Plus, since you guys took time to create that "hardcore mode", at least you could add it on that mode.
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Base power modifiers in tooltips have been tweaked a lot since this was suggested a few years back, and I think they're a lot less invasive now.
However, the base power modifier still shows in Hardcore Mode, even though that information isn't available in-game. Exact base powers for variable moves also fall under this. So I believe this can be safely added to Hardcore Mode (I edited the title to reflect this).
However, the base power modifier still shows in Hardcore Mode, even though that information isn't available in-game. Exact base powers for variable moves also fall under this. So I believe this can be safely added to Hardcore Mode (I edited the title to reflect this).