I was wondering why no one else had mentioned this earlier. I also note that Absol is NU. I could see an SD set working with superpower for steels.
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Gen V Initial NU Metagame Thread
- Thread starter Oglemi
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Why is everyone obsessing over Zweilous? So what if he has a super-powered Outrage? Rampardos has the highest non-Uber attack in the game, Life Orb, Rock Polish, and better coverage moves; none of which have many serious battlers scrambling to use him. In addition, locking yourself into Outrage is just begging for something like Klingklang to come in and start boosting.
Thanks to Eviolite and overall lack of viable spinners, this tier is going to be totally stall dominated. I would be very surprised if poison-types like Muk didn't see a good amount of usage, if only to absorb Toxic Spikes. On the offensive end, I wonder if Leafeon could find some usage. Her speed is pretty good for NU, there aren't many Steel-types, and she uses on of the most common pokemon, Wartortle, as setup bait.
Thanks to Eviolite and overall lack of viable spinners, this tier is going to be totally stall dominated. I would be very surprised if poison-types like Muk didn't see a good amount of usage, if only to absorb Toxic Spikes. On the offensive end, I wonder if Leafeon could find some usage. Her speed is pretty good for NU, there aren't many Steel-types, and she uses on of the most common pokemon, Wartortle, as setup bait.
CB Outrage 2HKOes Klinklang easily.
If it hits twice, and there's only a 64 percent chance of that. Most Zweillous carry Eviolite anyways, so the point is moot.
From where did you get that most carry Eviloite?
Zweilous's best use is as a CB attacker in TR teams!
How do you suggest Zweilous is switching in?
It requires a sacrifice. Otherwise, it'll likly be KO'ed on the switch if it dosen't come in on a psychic-type attack [Unlikly, as most TR users are Psychics themselves].
As soon as TR is over, or Zweilous misses, it also dies, if it's running CB.
TR CB Zweilous can exact a high price on the opposing team... but requires you to pay one as well.
Or you can just break things with non-TR CB Zweilous 9.9 Seriously, it is bulky enough to survive at least one hit from most things and saying something like Kilingklang can come in and set up is moot because Klingklang sucks :P NO really it does. When you have to rely on Rock Smash to hit Steel types...
I can't believe I'm going to say this, but I think Specs or Life Orb Electrode is going to be an underrated threat. Even with its middling offensive stats and low-ish bulk (it's a bit worse than Starmie), not much is going to like switching in to a boosted Volt Switch, Ground-types won't like eating a boosted Hidden Power, non-scarfers won't be outspeeding it (and a lot of scarfers still will be outsped), and it has the chance of screwing over priority users and weather sweepers with Static. Fun. Plus, you can run stupid stuff in the last slot like Rain Dance or Light Screen to support your team.
Life Orb fast attacker is IMO done better by Accelgor, with access to Recover, and possibility of Spikes makes it really discourages people from switching out. Besides, people are packing less bug resists in general now that Yanmega / Venomoth left--yeah Tinted lens got rid of them but some ran 4x resists. And most definitely people made sure that their team wasn't weak to Bug-moves in general when Mega was still around. Now, it isn't that crucial anymore if half your team is weak to bugs. Yeah, it's a synergy problem alright but with Mega around that kind of team would have been unplayable.
How do i suggest he comes in??
Let's see.
Max Hp Zweilous can come in freely on a Psychic attack and relatively easy in many fire,electric,water,grass,dark and ghost attacks?
Are these enough for you?
If TR ends you just switch out.TR lasts 3 turns when you bring Zweilous in which is exactly the maximum turns that Outrage can hit.
So unless you are an idiot you will not be locked in Outrage when TR ends.
Also if you miss you are not always OHKO'd.
If you miss while the opponent tries to bring in something that is OHKO'd by Zweilous,then even if you do miss you have another turn to kill him(with TR up of 'course).
Also many walls in NU cannot even ohko Zweilous so even if he misses it's not the end of the world.
Again stop theorymoning with him and make a real TR team with him.
After this come here and tell us your opinions ok?
He does, but not in NU. Steel/Normal coverage is actually solid down there with the lack of other Steels, and a +1 Gear Grind can rip many pokemon to shreds. Zweilous is an okay TR sweeper, but if you're going for a glass cannon TR Sweeper Rampardos is better. Mold Breaker, better coverage, and 100% accuracy on all his coverage moves outweigh Zweilous' positive attributes. Once opposing Flying-types are gone, he can just spam EQ for the win, and Stone Edge absolutely decimates every flying type in the tier.
Accelgor and Gigalith in NU? Accelgor looks like Deoxys-s lite in this tier and it bugs me how low Gigalith has dropped. It's not that good (great defensive stat, terrbile typing to back it up) but I still remember when it was one of the more common leads in OU (before people wised up and started using Deoxys), things are weird this Gen.
This. TR Rampardos can even dominate in UU.
Rampardos is down here too? Smogon usage is seriously trying my favorite pokemon here.
Accelgor I can understand, it's main selling point is Focus Sash+Spikes or Specs but it's bulk is so non-existent it's not right to call them defenses.
Gigalith is kinda pushin' it, GameFreak should really stop making pokemon with ridiculously high Def weak to the most common physical moves, but it's main niche was getting up SR and then dying. To be honest, Gigalith's best feature is that it learns SR by leveling up.
But Rampardos? You'd think with it's ridiculous Attack people would pick up on it, especially in the tier with TR Victini V-Spamming in it. Is there no TR in RU? And if not, please tell me it's in NU so we can spam the hell out of it.
Rampardos is even harder to use than Zweilous imo.
He is harder to bring in than Zweilous as his only useful resistances are Fire and Flying,while Zweilous has 7 total resistances/immunities to abuse.
Also Ramapardos while using either Stone Edge or Head Smash(his main moves)has exactly the same problem as Zweilous,which is 80% accuracy.
Finally i don't know what kind of priority there is in NU but i am sure that Rampardos being weak to Water and Steel,in addition to Fightng but Zweilous is also,doesn't help his case.
Finally Zweilous packs more power and requires almost zero prediction since the only move you are going to use 90% of the time is CB outrage.
Once you eliminate the few things that Zweilous cannot 2hko you are going to butcher everything.
With Rapmardos you can outstall the TR turns(which will be only 3 at best),by predicting and playing around his moves.
Both are good TR sweepers but imo Zweilous is much easier to use and harder for the opponent to counter once you get rid of Bastiodon,Lairon and Propobass(see Balloon HP Ground Magneton).
I compiled a list of some of the more powerful priority users in the tier, though this isn't an exhaustive list of everyone who can use these moves.
Aqua Jet:
-Basculin, who has Adaptability and 92 base attack
-Carracosta, with 108 base attack and Shell Smash
-Floatzel, with 105 and Bulk Up
-Samurott, with 100 and Swords Dance
Bullet Punch
-Machoke, who lacks STAB
-Metang, who has a meager base 70 attack
Ice Shard
-Piloswine, with base 100 attack
-Sneasel, with base 95 attack and Swords Dance
-Vanilluxe, with base 95 attack
Mach Punch
-Gurdurr, with base 105 attack and Bulk Up
-Magmortar, with base 95 attack, Belly Drum, and lack of STAB
-Monferno, with base 78 attack, Iron Fist from the Dream World, Bulk Up, and Swords Dance
Shadow Sneak
-Banette, with base 115 attack
-Muk, with base 105, Curse, and no STAB
-Shedinja, with base 90 attack and Swords Dance
Vacuum Wave
-Croagunk, Riolu, and Tyrogue, none of which are usable.
Aqua Jet:
-Basculin, who has Adaptability and 92 base attack
-Carracosta, with 108 base attack and Shell Smash
-Floatzel, with 105 and Bulk Up
-Samurott, with 100 and Swords Dance
Bullet Punch
-Machoke, who lacks STAB
-Metang, who has a meager base 70 attack
Ice Shard
-Piloswine, with base 100 attack
-Sneasel, with base 95 attack and Swords Dance
-Vanilluxe, with base 95 attack
Mach Punch
-Gurdurr, with base 105 attack and Bulk Up
-Magmortar, with base 95 attack, Belly Drum, and lack of STAB
-Monferno, with base 78 attack, Iron Fist from the Dream World, Bulk Up, and Swords Dance
Shadow Sneak
-Banette, with base 115 attack
-Muk, with base 105, Curse, and no STAB
-Shedinja, with base 90 attack and Swords Dance
Vacuum Wave
-Croagunk, Riolu, and Tyrogue, none of which are usable.
So it seems that the most dominant priority users will be Basculin,Carracosta,Floatzel,Samurott,Eviolite Gurdurr and maybe Muk,Sneasel and Vanilluxe.
So it seems that Rampardos is a lot weaker to priority than Zweilous.
In fact the stronger priority users all are water types with Aqua Jet,especially Basculin which is like a faster Azumarill with a little less attack on water moves and a lot less attack in other moves.
A CB Basculin could be very viable in NU.
:evan:
That's awesome though, can't wait for signups :D
I submitted it more or less the same day this was up [depending on timezones, of course].
I'm pretty sure if there was an intention of Co-hosting, Earthworm would have made me aware of it. Still, we'll wait and see what happens.
Also, I have no clue why I spell Tier as Teir. The latter sounds right to me... but it isn't. Stupid spelling.
You forgot about common quick attack users, such as Zangoose who has 115 Atk and gets STAB and Sword Dance
Hmmmm.... So tauros and gigalith are in this tier.... nice.
Gigalith is gonna be wrecking havoc in this tier. Stealth rock by level up is very nice, especially if NU's only spinner is cryogonal, who would never switch to gigalith for fear of heavy bomber or stone edge. It has decent attack too, so it can hit hard if it wants to.
Gigalith is gonna be wrecking havoc in this tier. Stealth rock by level up is very nice, especially if NU's only spinner is cryogonal, who would never switch to gigalith for fear of heavy bomber or stone edge. It has decent attack too, so it can hit hard if it wants to.
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