SM OU Five Years

[curiosity]

==five years ==

==INTRODUCTION==
Hello! I'm curiosity and this will be my first rmt after joining smogon (and playing competitive pokemon as a whole) 4 months ago.
I thought that I would take advantage of a sick day and post a team that i've seen quite a lot of success with.
For some unknown reason, i've always loved watching, building and playing with balance - maybe it's just the satisfaction of knowing where I misplay, or maybe even knowing that it helps build my confidence as a mons play, I honestly couldn't tell you what makes it so appealing.

==TEAMBUILDING PROCESS==

December 2017, I had just started playing on showdown and I had just reached 1500. As the lovely people in the OU room told me, 1500 was the perfect threshold to start building your own teams - and so I did. With my limited experience, I had deduced that Mega Venusaur was a pretty capable anti-meta 'mon, perfect for shutting down Kartana and Magearna - the two biggest offensive threats in my tinted eyes. I immediately added Celesteela due to the synergy that the two possessed - Venu would provide a check to Tapu Koko, Kartana and Zygarde while Celsteela would check annoying 'mons such as Pinsir, Hawlucha and Tapu Lele for it.

Clefable was the obvious choice for a third member - it could provide the team with Rocks whilst compressing that slot to be a semi-competent stallbreaker. Clefable also provided the team with an additional Fighting and Dragon resist, whilst acting as the primary Dark resist of the team. It also served as the check to 'mons like Zygarde and Medicham answer, which the team desperately need, while also being able to blanket check miscellaneous 'mons, with Lopunny and Hawlucha being the most notable.

The team at this point was lacking multiple factors - the most notable being a reliable fire resist / heatran answer and the other being a stallbreaker. Heatran itself fulfilled this role quite well, being able to improve the stall and the opposing balance matchup immensely. Similarly to clefable, it also granted the team with another blanket check to misc. 'mons if ever something were to happen to the primary defensive core.

Landorus was originally added as the primary glue 'mon - being able to threaten common breakers like Koko, Mawile and Hoopa out with its ground stab + uturn respectively. I realised that I could utilise landorus' ability to threaten those 'mons in particular and use lando to set rocks. At this point, I had changed clefable from its utility set to a defensive cm set to help with the stall matchup and the tran weakness.

At this point, my matchup against offense wasn't great and heatran alone wasn't enough to threaten most walls, so I decided to add another wallbreaker - Greninja. Its utility of spikes was complemented by Heatran's ability to force switches and Celesteela's leech seed, so it was almost mandatory at that point that I used it.

Ultra sun and moon was released, so defog was now accessible to landorus, meaning that I reverted Clef back to its utility set and replaced stealth rock with defog on landorus.
Venusaur had slowly begun to disappoint me, for a variety of reasons. The first issue was venusaur's 4mss, which left a sour taste in my mouth. I so desperately wanted both Earthquake and HP Fire on Venusaur in addition to Giga Drain, Sludge Bomb and Synthesis after several bad matchups - namely Rain, Hyper Offense and Tyranitar + either Kartana or Magearna - which had frustrated me beyond belief, as I kept on changing the last moveslot to accomodate the threat.... only for me to sorely miss the last move. So in frustration, I changed Venusaur to toxapex, which slightly improved my Volcarona matchup whilst still providing similar support to venusaur.

It was at this point that I acknowledged the weakness to Tapu Koko + the falling of Celesteela in the meta, so I had decided to exchange Celesteela for Ferrothorn. Ferro gave me additional spikes support in addition to more knock off support, which would come in handy against mons that clef couldn't knock against.

==CLOSER LOOK==

@

Ability - Regenerator
EVs - 252 HP | 4 Def | 252 SpD
Nature - Calm

Scald | Recover | Toxic | Haze
​

Toxapex is a staple of on most modern balance teams - from its ability to straight up invalidate most common balance / wall breakers to being able to punish physical attackers with the most spammable move in the game - it's no wonder why it's a staple on balance. Toxapex acts as an excellent check to most breakers that can simultaneously break ferrothorn and clefable. It supports its teammates in 3 primary ways - the first and most spammable being scald. Scald defines this 'mon - deterring most physical breakers from freely switching in and gives me a wincon against players who hard switch their primary breakers - namely Mamoswine, Kartana and Mawile, as the team lacks any reliable counterplay against them. Haze is used in tandem with scald to prevent any setup from the prior, while also providing secondary speed control against 'mons such as Volcarona and Zygarde, allowing Greninja to easily clean if toxapex is removed and Toxic allows Toxapex to permanently cripple common switch-ins such as Tapu Lele, Zygarde and Gastrodon for the remainder of the match, while gaining valuable chip damage for Heatran and Greninja. Knock off and Toxic Spikes can be used over Haze and Toxic respectively to punish switch ins, but worsen's the team's matchup against quite a few 'mons - most notably the dragon dd mon or

@

Ability - Iron Barbs
EVs - 252 HP | 48 Def | 208 SpD
Nature - Careful

Spikes | Leech Seed | Knock Off | Power Whip / Gyro Ball
​

Ferrothorn, in my opinion is the easily the most reliable defensive hazard setter that is not named Landorus at the moment. Ferrothorn provides the team with a secondary defensive pivot that offers fantastic role compression, providing many utilities to the team - the first of which being the reliable electric resist of the team, as the team was notably weak to tapu koko. It was one of very few koko answers that could reliably set spikes for the team. It also provides knock off support, which allows toxapex and clefable to better stomach hits from choice item users, such as Koko, Zygarde and Lele while granting greninja and heatran more breathing room with chip damage. It's also an excellent standalone threat, as very few mons can effectively stall it out. For example, Landorus can't beat it from full HP unless it gets extremely lucky with earthquake rolls. Power Whip punishes swampert for staying in while Gyro Ball can be used over power whip, as the team is serevely weak to Lele. However, this moveslot is flexible, so this is absolutely user preference.
Leech seed is intended to be used with spikes, by forcing switches, which immensely aids the offensive core. Protect is also an interesting option on ferrothorn, as it puts less pressure on clefable to be the primary medicham and hawlucha answer, while being able to scout for tapu lele's potential hp fire or focus blast, but cannot afford to run it at the current point in time.

@

Ability - Magic Guard
EVs - 252 HP | 252 Def | 4 SpD
Nature - Bold

Stealth Rock | Moonblast | Softboiled | Wish / Knock Off
​

This 'mon is the true star of the show - in spite of the less than stellar transition to SM, Clefable still remains as one of the most problematic defensive threats in the tier. I decided to go for its utility set, as it provided an immediate answer for 3 of the biggest threats to this core - Medicham, Hawlucha and Zygarde. My only issue with Clefable is that it loses to most, if not all hazard removers, so it struggles to keep hazards up against offense, but the same can be said about ferrothorn, so take it with a grain of salt. While I may criticise clefable, I find its utility to be indispensable - the mentioned fighting types can easily overwhelm the team with the combination of their fighting stab + secondary stab or ice coverage. What really makes Clefable such a standout is that it can effectively check the biggest nuisances to the offensive core without immense pressure being placed upon it while being able to other team members in addition to itself while allowing greninja close out games with relative ease is what makes this pokemon fantastic. In an attempt not to sound like Pearl, Wish - which was suggested by Anish (thanks btw, it made this team infinitely better) - is the star of the show, providing useful utility to the rest of the team (more than often Lando or Tran) in the form of useful HP Recovery, allowing for more aggressive plays with the team. Knock can be used in this slot for an easier time breaking chansey and crippling other misc. 'mons, but the utility of wish is indispensable.

@

Ability - Flash Fire
EVs - 252 SpA | 4 SpD | 252 Spe
Nature - Timid

Magma Storm | Earth Power | Taunt | Toxic​

Heatran adds to this team in a variety of ways. Most notably, it's the team's Z-Move user of choice, which is something that I have found to be mandatory on all teams (barring stall). Aside from that, it performs as a fanstastic blanket check to Mawile (thought you must be careful playing around sucker) and opposing Heatran, threats that would be incredibly difficult to deal with defensively. Its trapping capabilities also synergise fantastically with Greninja, as it removes Toxapex or Chansey from the equation on a team with limited ways to deal with them, which is vital, especially when considering that this is the only stallbreaker on the team. With Magma storm, it sees many opportunities to trap common switch ins and with its Z crystal, its effectively able to eliminate even the sturdiest of switch-ins, including Zygarde. Leftovers in conjunction with Protect can be used, but it severely hinders its utility, in exchange for a better Lucha / Medicham answer.

@

Ability - Intimidate
EVs - 104 HP | 184 Def | 24 SpA | 196 Spe
Nature - Jolly

Earthquake | U-Turn | Hidden Power Ice | Defog
shoutouts to Eternam for the set

Landorus has consistently been the most dominant 'mon in SM OU for quite some time now, and the recent meta shifts has only reinforced people's views on this. Landorus rounds this team in the form of role compression - for one, it acts as the team's most reliable form of speed control (or glue, depending on what term you prefer using) being able to revenge kill some of the biggest threats to the team. The EVs spread allows landorus to perform to its maximum capability as a cleaner / glue 'mon - 196 Speed EVs allows Landorus to revenge some of the largest threats to the team, namely Mega Alakazam and Zygarde with U-turn. Hidden Power Ice in conjunction with 24 Special Attack EVs ensures the 2HKO on both Zygarde and Landorus. All the listed mons pose as a significant threat, especially the former, which is lacks a solid defensive counterplay.. Lando also serves as a secondary defensive pivot - acting as the team's primary answer against pinsir, as well as an emergency check to Zygade and Medicham and Lopunny. The EVs allows Landorus to be as bulky as possible while hitting the previous benchmarks - it can take Mawile's Play Rough into Sucker Punch after rocks, while minimising damage from Pinsir's return or frustration. Intimidate provides the team with utility in the form of an attack drop, it allows the team - namely Clefable - to eat more hits. Lastly, Landorus acts as the crucial ground immunity of the team. Not much to be said about the ground immune portion, other than the fact that it should be mandatory (though not as important as ground immunities in oras or bw) on all teams. In short, this 'mon is a very capable 'mon, and serves its many roles on the team to a fantastic results.

@

Ability - Battle Bond
EVs - 252 SpA | 4 SpD | 252 Spe
Nature - Timid

Hydro Pump | Dark Pulse | Water Shuriken | Spikes

There honestly isn't much to say about Greninja - other than it's fantastic at doing what it does. It forces out most breakers - namely Alakazam, Lele and Mamoswine - all of which lack solid defensive counterplay on this team in addition to being able to effortlessly check offense as a whole, notably beating Hawlucha and Kartana with Water Shuriken after some chip, it just relieves the team of immense pressure placed on it by these breakers. An additional spikes setter is really cool, especially considering how many free opportunities it gets (though this isn't shown in my replays, as most situations where I got both Ferro and Gren to set spikes, i've forgotten to save my replays.my bad) to set spikes. Without greninja, I feel like this team would be incomplete, as nothing can really fulfil this role as effectively as greninja can. I apologies if this is a lacklustre description, but in my eyes, there's nothing much that can be said about Greninja that the average player doesn't already know - other than this being a heatran switch in.


==THREATLIST==
If a name is coloured and bolded, then it is a major threat.​

Mamoswine - Mamoswine is the single biggest threat to the team, as it was not only something I had neglected when building this, but to be fair, there are absolutely no balance teams that have a good matchup against Mamoswine. Whenever this thing comes in, it gets at least 1 kill, period - and if Greninja is down, well my counterplay is the x button. Focus sash variants are the worst thing to encounter, as even if they lack in power compared to the metronome or life orb sets, it essentially forces me to sack 2 'mons just to deal with it. Metronome and Life sets are hardest to play around with. Fortunately enough for me, i've never seen anyone utilise a metronome set because they're bad however, life orb variants require me to sack at minimum 1 mon to sack, followed by a forced Greninja switch. If this thing is paired with either a toxapex or a gastrodon then it's an instant forfeit for me.

Tapu Lele and Alakazam

- Tapu Lele and Mega Alakazam fall into the one category as they both effectively do the same thing - destroy this defensive core. Tapu Lele's counterplay is to hope that its choiced locked and make an aggressive read into whatever I think it's going to lock itself into or in the case of a non choiced variant, then pivot between everything. Mega Alakazam does the same thing, but has a more efficient form of counterplay, being Landorus' u-turn or greninja's shuriken. If paired together, just hope focus blast misses a few times.

Magnezone - Magnezone is something that I completely overlooked while adjusting the team - the offensive core can easily deal with most variants, but its wallbreaking potential is astounding. Sub Electrium Z is the biggest pain in the ass, as it requires you to either sack one defensive mon+ Heatran or take a metric fucktonne from Flash Cannon on Lando.

Mawile - if landorus has been chipped, then there's no defensive counterplay to this whatsoever. Just pray that Hydro Pump doesn't miss or that Sucker Punch does crit or get a high roll on Heatran.

Less Threatening Breakers - These breakers can be played around, but are still annoying. Pinsir can be checked by the combination of Landorus and Greninja. Kyurem, Camerupt and Hoopa can be played around with the use of pivoting and can be revenged by landorus and greninja. Volcona is checked by Toxapex, Heatran and Greninja, but you must scout for the Psychium.

Bulky Waters that can't be trapped by Heatran - these can be very annoying to face, especially if ferrothorn has been beaten. Suicune is particular is annoying as it can outlast just about everything on the team thanks to pressure.

==SHOUTOUTS==

ou room guys A ShinyUnown Eden. laser火circus thanks for making my introduction to 'mons so fun! It's been a pleasure being a part of your community!
anyone who's ever posted in the ou next best thing - thanks for making my small input into the community such a success! Special mention to Flame from Heaven Felixx and mellowyellowhd for posting every week and being real cool people!
ou c&c guys thanks for being so chill and inclusive! (especially Exploudit) you guys really let my presence feel valued over there, even if my input is dumb.

allstarapology and DawnManeDuskWings while I may not talk to you as much as the above, your analyses give me joy whenever I read them.
​

==REPLAYS==



==========

conclusion

i've never felt so excited to come to a conclusion - I feel like this is the first big step to make myself a part of this community that i've come to very much enjoy being a part of - almost like a new beginning. I'm very much excited to join this community and meet a tonne of new people and experience a whole load of new things, hell maybe even earn a badge or two. Anyways, a big thank you to everyone who's read this, it means quite a lot to me that you've invested your time into reading this. So until next time, thanks for reading and have a great day! I've also made an update post at the bottom of the page if you want to read it.

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[nubzie]

Noticed ur from aus, hi fellow aussie. I have a few suggestions!

Ever considered shed shell over black sludge on pex? Not sure how big of an issue this is but heatran looks capable of wearing down the team.

Also if u don't use power whip u actually struggle with mega swampert in the rain oo, so for that reason I think it's actually better than gyro ball. I watched the replay vs. 9darkrai9 the guy using rain & u ferro went down to pert coz of the lack of power whip. U should be able to deal with hawlucha with a combination of moonblast from clef + shuriken from ashgren and or just keeping pex healthy enough to get a toxic off and wearing it down. About tapu lele, it does look like it can put in a considerable amount of work on this type of balance team (like u said u can pivot around non choice sets but I think fact remains it can put in work if played patiently (which r my favorite coz they wreak havoc on ferro+pex or any balance type teams but anyways...) to wear it down & I personally wouldn't risk it going down to ferro's attacks unless I'm sure the hp fire or z focus blast will ko it so I don't see the point in gyro. Ur also missing 4 evs from ferro's spd. :P

Perhaps stone edge over defog will help u out vs. pinsir a fair bit? I think it's worth trying as on teams like these u can usually force ur opponent to defog for u if they have hazard removal so maybe defog isn't needed + scarf landot doesn't get many opprtunities to defog anyways.

So I'm just suggesting maybe u can try shed shell > black sludge on pex, power whip > gyro on ferro & stone edge > defog on landot. It's a solid team though regardless, nice rmt mate.

 

[Kina]

I would change only Power Whip > Gyro Ball on Ferrothorn because with Power Whip, you can punish a lot of rain mons.

You have no problem facing things like Hawlucha with Haze on Toxapex but i see M-Pinsir being a problem here and i would suggest Zapdos > Ferrothorn on your team because Zapdos destroys everything that's strong in this Metagame, he can beat M-Pinsir and Hawlucha on 1v1, with this you can use Stone Edge > Defog on Landorus to kill things like Volcarona (it's a problem having HP Ground).

 

[DKM]

Hi, super cool RMT. Was a pleasure to read. The team itself looks really solid imo. So these changes are small and few, but hopefully are helpful.


-->
Heatran @ Grassium Z
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Magma Storm
- Earth Power
- Solar Beam
- Taunt

Using Z-Solar Beam on Heatran allows you to lure in bulky water types such as Gastrodon, Quagsire and Suicune,Which helps out Greninja even more.

It's still a fairly strong nuke on things like Zygarde and Chansey.




Wish --> Encore

Wish is definetely good on this team, but I don't think it's 100% needed.

Encore can catch setup sweepers like Volcarona and Pinsir to stop them instantly. It also might be able to help vs stall in some situations.

Hopefully these two ideas are helpful and best of luck with the team :]

Import
~~~~​

 

[Simia]

Hey, this a pretty good team you've got there. In addition to the threats you brought up, I think that Kartana is a threat as SD variantes really pressure your defensive backbone, its scarf set is managed well though. I also think Heatran can be a nuisance to your team as your answers are Ash Gren, which doesn't take on well two Magma Storm (especially if Rocks are up), your own Heatran, which almost dies to EPower, and Toxapex, which is just trapped by Magma Storm + Epower + Taunt. So I'm gonna suggest some things to improve, I hope, your team.

Major Change

>

I'm getting rid of your main breaker, Ash Gren but I think M-Latias fits very well in your team. First, it gives you a solid win condition against Balanced and even Bulky Offense teams (I'm suggesting a SubCM + Stored Power set). Secondly, it is a great check to Heatrans as it switches into it with ease consistently, and can even setup on it. It also somewhat help vs the likes of Kartana, being able to take on its moves if scarfed, and being faster than it if SD. In term of threats you brought up in your RMT, it helps against Bulky Waters as well as being a consistent check to Magnezone. M-Latias can also be useful vs Psychic Spam if you succeed to setup like 1/2 CM, then even Lele can't stop it.

Minor Changes

I'd suggest running TSpikes over Toxic. It's pretty much team reliant, but now with the addition of M-Latias, I think TSpikes are better. It really likes the support given by TSpikes, being able to poison Dark-Types such as Greninja and Tyranitar, and also making Sub an even better move to use.

I'd consider running HP Fire over HP Ice, which can be useful against both M-Scizor and Kartana. I don't think you really need to hit Lando-T as your team already plays around it very well.

Btw, I disagree with DragonKnightmaster, I do think Wish is needed on this kind of balanced team, as it provides consistent support to the likes of Scarf Lando-T and Firium Z Heatran, which both lack recovery.

~~

Team

Toxapex @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Toxic Spikes
- Recover
- Haze

Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Moonblast
- Soft-Boiled
- Wish

Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 48 Def / 208 SpD
Careful Nature
- Spikes
- Leech Seed
- Knock Off
- Power Whip

Heatran @ Firium Z
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Magma Storm
- Earth Power
- Toxic
- Taunt

Landorus-Therian @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 104 HP / 184 Def / 24 SpA / 196 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- U-turn
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Defog

Latias-Mega @ Latiasite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 240 HP / 16 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Calm Mind
- Stored Power
- Recover

This was a great RMT to read, gl with your team.

 

[patlop2307]

Hey curiosity! Very nice RMT man! Looks very appealing and gives some detailed insight about the thought process of building the team and the team itself. I am going over a few tweaks and changes the team COULD have, to (possibly) make the team more efficient.

Overview:​

​

The team is a standard, but decent one for sure. It has everything, even two spike setters. Speaking of which, I do think that one is enough to support your team in a good fashion most of the time. The team's stall breaking potential is definitely existing by having a Heatran on the team, which is also a thing to consider. There is not much else to say. Again, it is a very well built team that could be slightly improved.​

​

What is your team weak to?​

​

**This section is going to be skipped because all of the weaknesses have been mentioned. For those who want to see them, just scroll up.​

​

How could you improve the team?​

​

Major Changes:​

​

>

: Going back to your intial change. Mega-Venusaur is an excellent physical wall with close to no deficits, in comparison to Ferrothorn. It gives you a Mega-Mawile switch-in, a Kartana switch switch in, Mamoswine switch in, the list goes on. I am going with a pretty weird set that is Hidden Power [Fire]| Earthquake| Giga Drain| Synthesis, but Mega-Venusaur, in this meta, is a Pokémon that can have a lot of different sets that work well, depending on the Pokémon you are weak to. Need a Heatran or Mega-Mawile counter? Go with Earthquake. Need a Kartana counter? Go with Hidden Power [Fire]. Need a Zygarde counter? Go with Hidden Power [Ice], and so on.​

​

[OPTIONAL]

>

: This change is optional. If you don't want to lose against psychic spam, Mega-Tyranitar is definitely the way to go, since it can revenge choice locked Tapu Leles with banded pursuit usually OHKO'ing it. It is also another reliability when it comes to breaking stall being able to Stone Edge and Pursuit trap almost the whole stall team. However, if you change Toxapex to Tyranitar you will, more often than not, lose to Charizard-Y with close to no counterplay at all, so you can run it, but you don't have to.​

​

Minor Changes:​

​

Calm Mind > Knock Off/Wish (

) : This change is actually important and necessary, in my opinion. Calm Mind lets you beat Mega-Sableye AND Zapdos at the same time. You WILL get rocks versus stall, no matter what the team is, they are guaranteed. Without the Calm Mind your chances of getting a 2HKO are at 0.4% (!), which is not the best way to get Stealth Rocks, isn't it? It also helps versus the bulky waters you claimed to be pretty weak to, as Clefable can put Suicune (let us take Suicune for example) on hold long enough.​

​

[OPTIONAL] Stone Edge > U-Turn (

) : The team is still left pretty weak to Mega-Pinsir after all of the tweaks and changes. I though about running a coverage move on Landorus to lure it in, of some sorts. My intention is not to hit it straight away (that'd be nice, huh), but to rather force it out, get the rocks up with Clefable and then start chipping it. I am dropping U-Turn instead of Hidden Power [Ice] because offensive Landorus variants can still be dangerous to the team, and those I am trying to cover.​

​

Conclusion:​

​

Very nice team with a few weaknesses. I replaced some of them to make the team less weak to the afroementioned threats. However, the team does have its weaknesses, depending on the changes being made. I think it is up to you to decide what change you will pick up here. As I have stated in my Tyranitar suggestion, the team is losing to psychic spam if the Tyranitar was not there. Anyways, I hope you understand the points that I was trying to make and maybe pick up some changes. I hope I helped and have fun with your team in the future ^^​

​

​

​

References and Calcs:​

​

Click for Calc

0 SpA Clefable Moonblast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Sableye-Mega: 128-152 (42.2 - 50.1%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO

​

Mega Venusaur Semi-Stall

http://pokepast.es/17fe17e5738060d9

​

 

[Diophantine]

==five years ==

==INTRODUCTION==
Hello! I'm curiosity and this will be my first rmt after joining smogon (and playing competitive pokemon as a whole) 4 months ago.
I thought that I would take advantage of a sick day and post a team that i've seen quite a lot of success with.
For some unknown reason, i've always loved watching, building and playing with balance - maybe it's just the satisfaction of knowing where I misplay, or maybe even knowing that it helps build my confidence as a mons play, I honestly couldn't tell you what makes it so appealing.

==TEAMBUILDING PROCESS==

December 2016, I had just started playing on showdown and I had just reached 1500. As the lovely people in the OU room told me, 1500 was the perfect threshold to start building your own teams - and so I did. With my limited experience, I had deduced that Mega Venusaur was a pretty capable anti-meta 'mon, perfect for shutting down Kartana and Magearna - the two biggest offensive threats in my tinted eyes. I immediately added Celesteela due to the synergy that the two possessed - Venu would provide a check to Tapu Koko, Kartana and Zygarde while Celsteela would check annoying 'mons such as Pinsir, Hawlucha and Tapu Lele for it.

Clefable was the obvious choice for a third member - it could provide the team with Rocks whilst compressing that slot to be a semi-competent stallbreaker. Clefable also provided the team with an additional Fighting and Dragon resist, whilst acting as the primary Dark resist of the team. It also served as the check to 'mons like Zygarde and Medicham answer, which the team desperately need, while also being able to blanket check miscellaneous 'mons, with Lopunny and Hawlucha being the most notable.

The team at this point was lacking multiple factors - the most notable being a reliable fire resist / heatran answer and the other being a stallbreaker. Heatran itself fulfilled this role quite well, being able to improve the stall and the opposing balance matchup immensely. Similarly to clefable, it also granted the team with another blanket check to misc. 'mons if ever something were to happen to the primary defensive core.

Landorus was originally added as the primary glue 'mon - being able to threaten common breakers like Koko, Mawile and Hoopa out with its ground stab + uturn respectively. I realised that I could utilise landorus' ability to threaten those 'mons in particular and use lando to set rocks. At this point, I had changed clefable from its utility set to a defensive cm set to help with the stall matchup and the tran weakness.

At this point, my matchup against offense wasn't great and heatran alone wasn't enough to threaten most walls, so I decided to add another wallbreaker - Greninja. Its utility of spikes was complemented by Heatran's ability to force switches and Celesteela's leech seed, so it was almost mandatory at that point that I used it.

Ultra sun and moon was released, so defog was now accessible to landorus, meaning that I reverted Clef back to its utility set and replaced stealth rock with defog on landorus.
Venusaur had slowly begun to disappoint me, for a variety of reasons. The first issue was venusaur's 4mss, which left a sour taste in my mouth. I so desperately wanted both Earthquake and HP Fire on Venusaur in addition to Giga Drain, Sludge Bomb and Synthesis after several bad matchups - namely Rain, Hyper Offense and Tyranitar + either Kartana or Magearna - which had frustrated me beyond belief, as I kept on changing the last moveslot to accomodate the threat.... only for me to sorely miss the last move. So in frustration, I changed Venusaur to toxapex, which slightly improved my Volcarona matchup whilst still providing similar support to venusaur.

It was at this point that I acknowledged the weakness to Tapu Koko + the falling of Celesteela in the meta, so I had decided to exchange Celesteela for Ferrothorn. Ferro gave me additional spikes support in addition to more knock off support, which would come in handy against mons that clef couldn't knock against.

==CLOSER LOOK==

@

Ability - Regenerator
EVs - 252 HP | 4 Def | 252 SpD
Nature - Calm

Scald | Recover | Toxic | Haze
​

Toxapex is a staple of on most modern balance teams - from its ability to straight up invalidate most common balance / wall breakers to being able to punish physical attackers with the most spammable move in the game - it's no wonder why it's a staple on balance. Toxapex acts as an excellent check to most breakers that can simultaneously break ferrothorn and clefable. It supports its teammates in 3 primary ways - the first and most spammable being scald. Scald defines this 'mon - deterring most physical breakers from freely switching in and gives me a wincon against players who hard switch their primary breakers - namely Mamoswine, Kartana and Mawile, as the team lacks any reliable counterplay against them. Haze is used in tandem with scald to prevent any setup from the prior, while also providing secondary speed control against 'mons such as Volcarona and Zygarde, allowing Greninja to easily clean if toxapex is removed and Toxic allows Toxapex to permanently cripple common switch-ins such as Tapu Lele, Zygarde and Gastrodon for the remainder of the match, while gaining valuable chip damage for Heatran and Greninja. Knock off and Toxic Spikes can be used over Haze and Toxic respectively to punish switch ins, but worsen's the team's matchup against quite a few 'mons - most notably the dragon dd mon or

@

Ability - Iron Barbs
EVs - 252 HP | 48 Def | 208 SpD
Nature - Careful

Spikes | Leech Seed | Knock Off | Power Whip / Gyro Ball
​

Ferrothorn, in my opinion is the easily the most reliable defensive hazard setter that is not named Landorus at the moment. Ferrothorn provides the team with a secondary defensive pivot that offers fantastic role compression, providing many utilities to the team - the first of which being the reliable electric resist of the team, as the team was notably weak to tapu koko. It was one of very few koko answers that could reliably set spikes for the team. It also provides knock off support, which allows toxapex and clefable to better stomach hits from choice item users, such as Koko, Zygarde and Lele while granting greninja and heatran more breathing room with chip damage. It's also an excellent standalone threat, as very few mons can effectively stall it out. For example, Landorus can't beat it from full HP unless it gets extremely lucky with earthquake rolls. Power Whip punishes swampert for staying in while Gyro Ball can be used over power whip, as the team is serevely weak to Lele. However, this moveslot is flexible, so this is absolutely user preference.
Leech seed is intended to be used with spikes, by forcing switches, which immensely aids the offensive core. Protect is also an interesting option on ferrothorn, as it puts less pressure on clefable to be the primary medicham and hawlucha answer, while being able to scout for tapu lele's potential hp fire or focus blast, but cannot afford to run it at the current point in time.

@

Ability - Magic Guard
EVs - 252 HP | 252 Def | 4 SpD
Nature - Bold

Stealth Rock | Moonblast | Softboiled | Wish / Knock Off
​

This 'mon is the true star of the show - in spite of the less than transition to SM, Clefable still remains as one of the most problematic defensive threats in the tier. I decided to go for its utility set, as it provided an immediate answer for 3 of the biggest threats to this core - Medicham, Hawlucha and Zygarde. My only issue with Clefable is that it loses to most, if not all hazard removers, so it struggles to keep hazards up against offense, but the same can be said about ferrothorn, so take it with a grain of salt. While I may criticise clefable, I find its utility to be indispensable - the mentioned fighting types can easily overwhelm the team with the combination of their fighting stab + secondary stab or ice coverage. What really makes Clefable such a standout is that it can effectively check the biggest nuisances to the offensive core without immense pressure being placed upon it while being able to other team members in addition to itself while allowing greninja close out games with relative ease is what makes this pokemon fantastic. In an attempt not to sound like Pearl, Wish - which was suggested by Anish (thanks btw, it made this team infinitely better) - is the star of the show, providing useful utility to the rest of the team (more than often Lando or Tran) in the form of useful HP Recovery, allowing for more aggressive plays with the team. Knock can be used in this slot for an easier time breaking chansey and crippling other misc. 'mons, but the utility of wish is indispensable.

@

Ability - Flash Fire
EVs - 252 SpA | 4 SpD | 252 Spe
Nature - Timid

Magma Storm | Earth Power | Taunt | Toxic​

Heatran adds to this team in a variety of ways. Most notably, it's the team's Z-Move user of choice, which is something that I have found to be mandatory on all teams (barring stall). Aside from that, it performs as a fanstastic blanket check to Mawile (thought you must be careful playing around sucker) and opposing Heatran, threats that would be incredibly difficult to deal with defensively. Its trapping capabilities also synergise fantastically with Greninja, as it removes Toxapex or Chansey from the equation on a team with limited ways to deal with them, which is vital, especially when considering that this is the only stallbreaker on the team. With Magma storm, it sees many opportunities to trap common switch ins and with its Z crystal, its effectively able to eliminate even the sturdiest of switch-ins, including Zygarde. Leftovers in conjunction with Protect can be used, but it severely hinders its utility, in exchange for a better Lucha / Medicham answer.

@

Ability - Intimidate
EVs - 104 HP | 184 Def | 24 SpA | 196 Spe
Nature - Jolly

Earthquake | U-Turn | Hidden Power Ice | Defog
shoutouts to Eternam for the set

Landorus has consistently been the most dominant 'mon in SM OU for quite some time now, and the recent meta shifts has only reinforced people's views on this. Landorus rounds this team in the form of role compression - for one, it acts as the team's most reliable form of speed control (or glue, depending on what term you prefer using) being able to revenge kill some of the biggest threats to the team. The EVs spread allows landorus to perform to its maximum capability as a cleaner / glue 'mon - 196 Speed EVs allows Landorus to revenge some of the largest threats to the team, namely Mega Alakazam and Zygarde with U-turn. Hidden Power Ice in conjunction with 24 Special Attack EVs ensures the 2HKO on both Zygarde and Landorus. All the listed mons pose as a significant threat, especially the former, which is lacks a solid defensive counterplay.. Lando also serves as a secondary defensive pivot - acting as the team's primary answer against pinsir, as well as an emergency check to Zygade and Medicham and Lopunny. The EVs allows Landorus to be as bulky as possible while hitting the previous benchmarks - it can take Mawile's Play Rough into Sucker Punch after rocks, while minimising damage from Pinsir's return or frustration. Intimidate provides the team with utility in the form of an attack drop, it allows the team - namely Clefable - to eat more hits. Lastly, Landorus acts as the crucial ground immunity of the team. Not much to be said about the ground immune portion, other than the fact that it should be mandatory (though not as important as ground immunities in oras or bw) on all teams. In short, this 'mon is a very capable 'mon, and serves its many roles on the team to a fantastic results.

@

Ability - Battle Bond
EVs - 252 SpA | 4 SpD | 252 Spe
Nature - Timid

Hydro Pump | Dark Pulse | Water Shuriken | Spikes

There honestly isn't much to say about Greninja - other than it's fantastic at doing what it does. It forces out most breakers - namely Alakazam, Lele and Mamoswine - all of which lack solid defensive counterplay on this team in addition to being able to effortlessly check offense as a whole, notably beating Hawlucha and Kartana with Water Shuriken after some chip, it just relieves the team of immense pressure placed on it by these breakers. An additional spikes setter is really cool, especially considering how many free opportunities it gets (though this isn't shown in my replays, as most situations where I got both Ferro and Gren to set spikes, i've forgotten to save my replays.my bad) to set spikes. Without greninja, I feel like this team would be incomplete, as nothing can really fulfil this role as effectively as greninja can. I apologies if this is a lacklustre description, but in my eyes, there's nothing much that can be said about Greninja that the average player doesn't already know - other than this being a heatran switch in.


==THREATLIST==
If a name is coloured and bolded, then it is a major threat.​

Mamoswine - Mamoswine is the single biggest threat to the team, as it was not only something I had neglected when building this, but to be fair, there are absolutely no balance teams that have a good matchup against Mamoswine. Whenever this thing comes in, it gets at least 1 kill, period - and if Greninja is down, well my counterplay is the x button. Focus sash variants are the worst thing to encounter, as even if they lack in power compared to the metronome or life orb sets, it essentially forces me to sack 2 'mons just to deal with it. Metronome and Life sets are hardest to play around with. Fortunately enough for me, i've never seen anyone utilise a metronome set because they're bad however, life orb variants require me to sack at minimum 1 mon to sack, followed by a forced Greninja switch. If this thing is paired with either a toxapex or a gastrodon then it's an instant forfeit for me.

Tapu Lele and Alakazam

- Tapu Lele and Mega Alakazam fall into the one category as they both effectively do the same thing - destroy this defensive core. Tapu Lele's counterplay is to hope that its choiced locked and make an aggressive read into whatever I think it's going to lock itself into or in the case of a non choiced variant, then pivot between everything. Mega Alakazam does the same thing, but has a more efficient form of counterplay, being Landorus' u-turn or greninja's shuriken. If paired together, just hope focus blast misses a few times.

Magnezone - Magnezone is something that I completely overlooked while adjusting the team - the offensive core can easily deal with most variants, but its wallbreaking potential is astounding. Sub Electrium Z is the biggest pain in the ass, as it requires you to either sack one defensive mon+ Heatran or take a metric fucktonne from Flash Cannon on Lando.

Mawile - if landorus has been chipped, then there's no defensive counterplay to this whatsoever. Just pray that Hydro Pump doesn't miss or that Sucker Punch does crit or get a high roll on Heatran.

Less Threatening Breakers - These breakers can be played around, but are still annoying. Pinsir can be checked by the combination of Landorus and Greninja. Kyurem, Camerupt and Hoopa can be played around with the use of pivoting and can be revenged by landorus and greninja. Volcona is checked by Toxapex, Heatran and Greninja, but you must scout for the Psychium.

Bulky Waters that can't be trapped by Heatran - these can be very annoying to face, especially if ferrothorn has been beaten. Suicune is particular is annoying as it can outlast just about everything on the team thanks to pressure.

==SHOUTOUTS==

ou room guys A ShinyUnown Eden. laser火circus thanks for making my introduction to 'mons so fun! It's been a pleasure being a part of your community!
anyone who's ever posted in the ou next best thing - thanks for making my small input into the community such a success! Special mention to Flame from Heaven Felixx and mellowyellowhd for posting every week and being real cool people!
ou c&c guys thanks for being so chill and inclusive! (especially Exploudit) you guys really let my presence feel valued over there, even if my input is dumb.
Gurpreet Patel (Sent you a Friend Request)

open my bob

this joke may as dead as my grandfather, but here it is nonetheless. seriously though, thanks for being an inspiration with your presence in the many communities across smogon (and accepting my friend request, of course)

allstarapology and DawnManeDuskWings while I may not talk to you as much as the above, your analyses give me joy whenever I read them.
​

==REPLAYS==
View attachment 110612View attachment 110613View attachment 110614View attachment 110615

==just for fun==

View attachment 110616

==========

conclusion

i've never felt so excited to come to a conclusion - I feel like this is the first big step to make myself a part of this community that i've come to very much enjoy being a part of - almost like a new beginning. I'm very much excited to join this community and meet a tonne of new people and experience a whole load of new things, hell maybe even earn a badge or two. Anyways, a big thank you to everyone who's read this, it means quite a lot to me that you've invested your time into reading this. So until next time, thanks for reading and have a great day!

IMPORTABLE
^ click here ^

=======================

========================​

Hey curiosity, I have to say I am quite impressed that you are very new yet have still managed to build a team as well as this. Your team looks very solid and you have articulated your ideas very well (not to mention the lay-out is pretty neat). There are a few things I would change, however.

I actually liked your team better before the changes - Venusaur is slept on in the metagame today. People underrate it due to Hawlucha being spammed everywhere on the ladder. As a result, I'll make changes to the Venusaur, Celesteela, Clefable, Heatran, Lando and Gren team.

You were having trouble picking Venusaur's set, and I can understand why - it definitely suffers from 4MSS. I think that this set is good for this team:

Hide

Venusaur-Mega @ Venusaurite
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Synthesis
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Giga Drain

Synthesis is a necessity on all Mega Venusaur sets. Earthquake is so your team doesn't lose to Shift Gear Magearna. Giga Drain is so you have some sort of way of hitting Mamoswine which, as you said, hits this team pretty hard. It is still hard to switch in to, though, as it is 2HKO'd by Earthquake from Life Orb Mamoswine. The final slot was a difficult choice between Sludge Bomb (as it provides a chance of poison against Latias/Latios switch ins), Sleep Powder (generally good utility move) and HP Fire (for SD Kartana as some variants like Fightinium-Z break the defensive core if played right). I settled for HP Fire for the reason I just mentioned as we have other ways of poisoning common switch ins with Toxic from Heatran onto either Lati, and I figured being able to get rid of Kartana was a greater benefit to this team than putting something to sleep. It also helps as an insurance to Celesteela if it gets trapped by a Magnezone part way through the battle and your opponent has a Scizor (which is commonly paired with Magnezone). I made it max SpDef it be a Battle Bond Greninja switch in. It also functions as a Toxic Spike absorber.

This Celesteela set that I am going to use is very standard - and for good reason.

Hide

Celesteela @ Leftovers
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 248 HP / 104 Def / 156 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Leech Seed
- Protect
- Heavy Slam
- Flamethrower

You have already explained why these two mons work very well together and why Celesteela is a great pick for this team, so I won't go into much detail and waste time explaining it.

Like my friend patlop2307 said above me, I would use Calm Mind over Wish on Clefable. I get that Wish passing is nice, but Patlop has explained very well why Calm Mind works better here. I am just saying that it should be Wish and not Knock Off that should be replaced. Knock Off helps you out vs stall so much by being able to remove Eviolite and Leftovers, as Calm Mind lets you beat Sableye.

There is not much else that I can say as, honestly, your team is similar to something I would build for myself and is very solid. It remains to be weak to HP Ground Volcarona, but that is not the most common set (Psychicium or Buginium are IIRC) and no team is without specific weaknesses, no matter how solid. Kyurem-Black is also very threatening to this team, but which team does it not threaten? The bulky waters that you mentioned are all Toxiced by Heatran as they try to counter it, besides Tapu Fini which gets worn down by hazards and Magma Storm/Earth Power as it doesn't have recovery outside of item usage (and Z-Haze lol).

Final team with my changes:

Hide

Venusaur-Mega @ Venusaurite
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Synthesis
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Giga Drain

Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Moonblast
- Soft-Boiled
- Calm Mind

Celesteela @ Leftovers
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 248 HP / 104 Def / 156 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Leech Seed
- Protect
- Heavy Slam
- Flamethrower

Heatran @ Firium Z
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Magma Storm
- Earth Power
- Toxic
- Taunt

Landorus-Therian @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 104 HP / 184 Def / 24 SpA / 196 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- U-turn
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Defog

Greninja-Ash @ Choice Specs
Ability: Battle Bond
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Dark Pulse
- Water Shuriken
- Spikes

I hope you enjoy my changes, and I hope you continue to make teams like these in the future as you most definitely have a good degree of potential. :)

 

[curiosity]

I'd like to preface this by saying thank you to everyone for this amazing feedback! I'd never realise how much traction this would get, and it's really cool to see everyone's thoughts on this. Since there's a lot to quote, i'll just be mentioning you rather than quoting your posts.

​

nubzie and Relentless_Chaos I'll begin by saying I actually did have whip > gyro - it's just that I forgot to mention it in the rmt, so thanks for noticing that mistake. Also in regards to that replay, I actually misclicked Leech Seed instead of whip because i'm stupid. So my bad if that caused any confusion. In regards to stone edge, i'm more than willing to give it a try, however, I will say that I'm a bit skeptical about losing defog, but I will give it a try nonetheless.
I actually did consider using Shed Shell pex, but I was quite underwhelmed with its performance, which is why it's black sludge, but i'll give it another shot.

DragonKnightmaster Grassium Z is a really solid idea! I'll be sure to give it a try soon! I'll also give Encore a shot, but i'm a bit skeptical about losing the wish support.

Simia I really love the idea of Tspikes + Mega Latias! I'll be sure to give this a try as soon as I can. There's not much to say about it really, I really love the direction you took the team in. I don't know why I overlooked HP Fire during the building process, but I'm sure it a 100% improvement.

patlop2307 I think you've just resparked my love for venusaur - I think the answer to my frustrations must have been that moveset. Anyways, really loving the ttar, i'm really looking forwards to using it. As for the CM Clef, i've very excited to use that mon once again, i've been sorely missing it since the original build. I'm looking forwards to using your version of the team on the ladder.

Diophantine i'm very exicted about using my original build yet again! I probably will go back and use this 'mons again, as it's been a while since I last touched them.


Anyways, thanks for contributing to my tiny bit of this forums! I'll be putting down my experiences with these 'mons in that reserved post up there, so stay tuned

 

[stuuful12]

​

[OPTIONAL]

>

: This change is optional. If you don't want to lose against psychic spam, Mega-Tyranitar is definitely the way to go, since it can revenge choice locked Tapu Leles with banded pursuit usually OHKO'ing it. It is also another reliability when it comes to breaking stall being able to Stone Edge and Pursuit trap almost the whole stall team. However, if you change Toxapex to Tyranitar you will, more often than not, lose to Charizard-Y with close to no counterplay at all, so you can run it, but you don't have to.​

I agree with the all of the recommendations you made to make this team more solid except this. For the most part, having Tyranitar on a Mega Venusaur team is counter-intuitive, especially since it has synthesis because Sandstream makes it infinitely harder for Mega Venusaur to wall the pokemon it needs to wall due to lowering the amount healed by Synthesis, which is bad because Tyranitar itself will commonly be the target of Ash-Greninja's. This makes Mega Venu's life really bad, as Spikes, Flinch Hax, and Sandstream chip make Mega Venusaur burn through Synthesis as well, which will lower its effectiveness, making Tyranitar an unsavory teammate for Venusaur.

That being said, I would actually recommend

>

since it accomplishes most of the same things that Tyranitar would (minus pursuit trapping), and does a bit better in the Psychic Spam match-up since it isn't as screwed by Focus Blast. The set for the Hoopa Unbound should be Choice Band since that absolutely demolishes most of the Nasty Plots sets switch-ins, and can be utilized without the Z-move. Of course, if curiosity is willing to, he could also give up Firium for Leftovers on Heatran for a Nasty Plot set for Hoopa Unbound which is even better

Choice Band set if you want to keep Heatran's Z-move

Hoopa-Unbound @ Choice Band
Ability: Magician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Hyperspace Fury
- Gunk Shot
- Fire Punch
- Zen Headbutt

Regular Nasty Plot set if you are okay with losing Heatran's Z-move

Hoopa-Unbound @ Fightinium Z
Ability: Magician
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Dark Pulse
- Psychic
- Focus Blast

 

[nubzie]

I got some replays with the original team I only made very minor tweaks to the movesets on pex and scarf landot, using a shed shell and stone edge over defog (just my personal preferences), I didn't encounter sd kartana *which seems generally uncommon on the ladder even though I know its an incredibly potent set* much on the ladder so I personally found hp ice much better but simia's suggestion of hp fire>ice is definitely 1 that is very good & makes a lot of sense.

I usually wouldn't use someone else's teams but this 1 is honestly very good imo and I really believe it's capable of peaking ladder wise if used by the right player and can hold its own in a tour setting. *even though I have piss all tour exp to begin with but u can usually tell when a team is solid or not anyways*

The team is already very solid and imo doesn't need any changes to team members, maybe minor moveset tweaks to each player's personal liking would suffice. I personally think simia's idea of mega latias over ashgren could work but I'm MUCH MORE COMFORTABLE utilizing ashgren which offers the team an easy braindead way out vs more offensive teams coz to me latias isn't a top tier sweeper in ou and is usually paired with cosmic power + cm clef as well to overwhelm checks which this team doesn't have and needing to have tspikes on pex over toxic really makes it worse vs. zapdos and to lesser extent mantine which I actually faced and it came in extremely handy for my ashgren

Here's the replays which I remembered to save, I got games from 1750 to almost 1900 and I barely lost any. Besides on teams like these, ppl can probably already guess ur sets even if u rmt them coz they should be fairly obvious to tell so this being rmt'ed isn't even going to affect how good the team performs.

replays

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-732032972 - Was able to beat this irritating team coz of the wish clef which I knew was extremely good when I 1st saw it. Granted if the gliscor was faster and he got the 50/50 right on eq he would have won but I was already tired of playing that team at that point after he actually went to pp stall my pex and was playing 2 games at once.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-732046986 - #solt
I forgot to save this but I downloaded it so a picture is better than nothing I guess.

 

[patlop2307]

I agree with the all of the recommendations you made to make this team more solid except this. For the most part, having Tyranitar on a Mega Venusaur team is counter-intuitive, especially since it has synthesis because Sandstream makes it infinitely harder for Mega Venusaur to wall the pokemon it needs to wall due to lowering the amount healed by Synthesis, which is bad because Tyranitar itself will commonly be the target of Ash-Greninja's. This makes Mega Venu's life really bad, as Spikes, Flinch Hax, and Sandstream chip make Mega Venusaur burn through Synthesis as well, which will lower its effectiveness, making Tyranitar an unsavory teammate for Venusaur.

That being said, I would actually recommend
View attachment 110697> View attachment 110698
since it accomplishes most of the same things that Tyranitar would (minus pursuit trapping), and does a bit better in the Psychic Spam match-up since it isn't as screwed by Focus Blast. The set for the Hoopa Unbound should be Choice Band since that absolutely demolishes most of the Nasty Plots sets switch-ins, and can be utilized without the Z-move. Of course, if curiosity is willing to, he could also give up Firium for Leftovers on Heatran for a Nasty Plot set for Hoopa Unbound which is even better

Choice Band set if you want to keep Heatran's Z-move

Hoopa-Unbound @ Choice Band
Ability: Magician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Hyperspace Fury
- Gunk Shot
- Fire Punch
- Zen Headbutt

Regular Nasty Plot set if you are okay with losing Heatran's Z-move

Hoopa-Unbound @ Fightinium Z
Ability: Magician
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Dark Pulse
- Psychic
- Focus Blast

The main point of the change to tar was to be a trapper for a bunch of mons, mainly the psychics. The point of venu was fair, although I think the team can put the opposing on hold long enough until sand actually runs out, but, I admit I'm not too sure about it.
The change was optional regardless, people should make themselves an own opinion about optional changes and balance out whats better and whats not.

 

[wutisudoin]

Pinsir spreads your team out like a pancake lol
Instead of greninja, I think a better fit would be Tapu Koko, although this does make your team even weaker to Mamo. You can patch this up by running the rare grass knot to catch it out tho.
Running a standard specs set would work just fine, as it is providing a similar role to greninja. If venusaur is added, your heatran weakness is reduced, making this quite a viable option.

Hide

Tapu Koko @ Choice Specs
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Dazzling Gleam
- Volt Switch
- Grass Knot

 

[Anish]

yo cool team and love the interplay between the pokemon,

i think a lot of the feedback that you have gotten is great, simia's for example, but just wanted to add something else that you could do in a lot of variations to ease the matchup vs reuniculus, and which would help the current team

i think you could run some speed on toxapex to outspeed reuniculus. i like 40 speed since you also outspeed gastrodon, so if weakened a little you can get a recover off before he eqs you.

you can also run punishment on scarf landot, over the defog slot if you still feel too uncomfortable around reuni and also cm mega latias. while losing defog does hurt, you can somewhat deal with it thanks to the wish support that you have and dual spikes.

sets

Landorus-Therian @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 104 HP / 184 Def / 24 SpA / 196 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- U-turn
- Hidden Power [Ice]/[Fire]
- Punishment

Toxapex @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 216 SpD / 40 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Toxic
- Recover
- Haze

 

[curiosity]

so i had originally intended this post to be edited into the reserved post, but i've since found out that editing doesn't help with tags so here we are

I wanted to use this post as as an update post. Since posting this team around two weeks ago, quite a lot has happened for both me and this team. I guess the most notable take out of this was the recent nomination for the RMT of the Week as well as the upgrade to the showcase. Never does an average player like me deserve any of this exposure, but I guess we're here. So i'd like to thank everyone once more for this tremendous amount of support and feedback. Speaking of feedback, I have tested everyone's rates, and I have to say that I loved using every variation of the build and it has exposed me to so many unique 'mons. The biggest and best example would be Mega Latias. In all honesty Simia you've made my build a million types better with the addition of Mega Latias it really is the wincon the team so desperately needed. In fact, I think i've seen the most success with your variation, heck I even had the opportunity to 6-0 vsomani but since he's a prick he privated the room so no replay.

Anyways, the original intent of this post was to update the RMT with significant changes, including shoutouts, so without further ado..

==CLOSER LOOK==

@

Ability - Levitate
EVs - 240 HP | 16 Def | 252 Spe
IVs - 0 Atk
Nature - Timid

Substitute | Calm Mind | Stored Power | Recover

As I stated earlier, this was entirely Simia's creation. There's not much to say about this 'mon that hasn't been said. Both Simia and I cover them in other posts so I suggest you read those for more specific detail. Latias offers an improved matchup against bulkier teams, especially opposing balance builds, which prior to this would be an excessively long game of patience - often resulting in greninja cleaning after an incredibly drawn out matchup. It also adds much needed defensive counterplay to notable threats, including the ever present Heatran and Kartana, while providing a secondary ground immunity, as well as granting secondary defensive counterplay to psyspam, hawlucha and magnezone.


==REPLAYS==


==SHOUTOUTS==

Team Pokepals I honestly can't thank you enough for the opportunities you've given me since I've first met you. You've always been such a likeable person, as you're so kind, helpful, influential and just an overall amazing person. The community that you've introduced me to is amazing, and I really can't help but love everyone that I talk to in the group. I only hope you go further with your 'mons career, especially now that you're a mod.

Qplaz 3017 BM and honorary team West [Island] New Zealand Members N01syBoy and vsomani aka Team West New Zealand aka BIG BAD CREW I've had so much fun with you guys these past two weeks, whether it's innovating the meta to being the gods of the ladder, there will never be such a funny and joyful set of memories associated with showdown. I really should include vivalospride for all your alts we make fun of.

LL I really don't care what others think of you, as you genuinely are one of the most inspiring and nice people I've met since joining here. You're always a pleasure to talk to and most importantly

IronBullet you are genuinely one of the funniest and loveable people i've met these past few weeks. I honestly don't know what to say other than this ridiculous conversation:

Hitler Exposed

starry blanket it genuinely baffles me that I somehow forgot to tag one of my biggest inspirations in the OP. You're always fantastic to talk to and you really do make me want to make the forums a better place. I'd also like to say thank you for reminding how to properly consider time. I really needed that.

yogi and A you guys really make discord such a loveable presence, from your compassion of the game to the greatest of quirks, you really make discord such an addictive place to be. I really ought to mention trc since you're not only hilarious, but you're really inspiring. I hope we get to talk more in the future, or in yogi's case, even more memier than it is already.

Anish Gross Sweep roman quziel you four make crew such an interesting place to be, whether it's your friendly banter or your extreme metagame knowledge - and in the case of Roman, the ability to make me realise how dumb I really am - I can't help but but strive to become like you guys. Also i'd like to present this:

I told you i'd use it

xJoelituh and DawnManeDuskWings continuing on with my discord motif, you guys make discord a really engaging place - whether we're talking about politics, news, 'mons or whatever, I really love talking to you guys.

nubzie while you may be last on this incredibly long least, it doesn't mean you're the least significant. I can't thank you enough for your continuous support and especially for these incredible replays! I'm sorry that you have to leave mons and I hope the best of you, wherever you end up. Also i'm sorry that I left you on hold, i'm just about to die.

also if I haven't said it already Simia you really deserve that team rater badge. Seriously, the amount of effort you put into your rates is absurd, and it really should be shown. I wish you the best of luck with future rates!

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[vso]

this is the replay you were looking for but it isnt a 6-0 https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-738804634 (was a friendly).

anyway, to make this post have some value, I feel as if the team after the rate was even more solid but thought some optional changes would help the team deal with some threats. Toxic Heatran for one can potentially Toxic and cripple Latias on the switch and proceed to destoy the team's win condition. Zapdos can freely Defog on both Ferrothorn and Toxapex and also threaten to Discharge paralyze the entire team, it can be a Nuisance.

Shed Shell > Black Sludge
Shed Shell on Toxapex would considerably help the team's Toxic Heatran matchup, which annoys the team even with Mega Latias as Heatran can Toxic Heatran on the switch. Shed Shell helps Toxapex sponge a Magma Storm and proceed by pivotting back out into Landorus-T or Latias. This also helps Toxapex against lures like Whirlpool Tapu Fini, Infestation Gengar, and Block Toxapex. However, losing Black Sludge is annoying as it removes passive recovery which would be nice to help reduce chip from burns and also take on Ash Greninja better.

Toxic > Defog
Toxic gives some additional support to handle Zapdos slightly better as it is able to cripple it with a Toxic and prevent Zapdos from freely defogging onto Ferrothorn, and consequently allowing you to have a huge advantage with you're opponents Defogger crippled for setting up Hazard with both Toxapex and Ferrothorn. Toxic is also nice to hit Landorus-T and Gastrodon, while also being able to be used as a last ditch measure against Suicune. While losing Defog is annoying, three spikes immunities with Toxic Spikes absorbal and Spikes, Stealth Rock, and Toxic Spikes, you will usually want hazards up more than your opponent.

import

Toxapex @ Shed Shell
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 40 Spe / 216 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Toxic Spikes
- Recover
- Haze

Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Moonblast
- Soft-Boiled
- Wish

Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 48 Def / 208 SpD
Careful Nature
- Spikes
- Leech Seed
- Knock Off
- Power Whip

Heatran @ Firium Z
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Magma Storm
- Earth Power
- Toxic
- Taunt

Landorus-Therian @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 104 HP / 184 Def / 24 SpA / 196 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- U-Turn
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Toxic

Latias-Mega @ Latiasite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 240 HP / 16 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Calm Mind
- Stored Power
- Recover