Expected and Unexpected [Gen V OU]

[Engineer Pikachu]

Hello Smogon. I've been using this team for a reasonable amount of time, and I'm not sure how to improve it; this is where you come in. I've always used a bulky offense-esque team style, and I wanted to try something new. Hyper Offense and Stall have never been up my alley, so I made a Balance type of team. It's done pretty well, but there are still some problems to iron out.

Here's the team at a quick glance (in no particular order):

2 Pokemon are weak to rocks, 5 are affected by spikes, and 4 are affected by Toxic Spikes.
This team utilizes the Nattorei/Burugenru defensive core, along with using Shaymin and Deoxys as offensive pokemon; Hitmontop acts as my revenge killer, and Hihidaruma is my late-game clean-upper.

Thought Process
When building this team, I had a simple thought process. I wanted to have at least two of the "Fantastic Four" on my team, so I could have experience with these "suspects" should I actually make it into Suspect testing. Manaphy seemed too underwhelming, and Darkrai was too susceptible to Roopushin, so I chose Shaymin-S and Deoxys-A.
Next, I wanted a defensive core, since Skymin and Deoxys were so offensive. Nattorei and Burungeru seemed like perfect choices, so I fit them in. Nattorei and Skymin actually work pretty well together, as having double the users of Leech Seed keep my no-healing team alive and well.
Since these four pokemon were so cliched, I opted for a late-game cleaner that would be completely unexpected and terrifying. After scanning through all the new Gen V pokemon, Hihidaruma caught my eye. With a respectable 95 speed and a whopping 140 attack, Hihi has done wonders for my team.
Lastly, since I lacked a good fighting type and a priority user (I usually sac Deoxys in the beginning in order to dish out heavy damage), Hitmontop was put into my last slot.

At a closer look:

Deoxys-A @ Focus Sash
Pressure
Naive
252 Sp.A/252 Spd/4 Atk
- Thunder
- Ice Beam
- Shadow Ball
- Extremespeed

Deoxys-A is my normal lead. It fares pretty well against most leads, the biggest exception being Tyranitar, who is only hit neutrally by Thunder. Thunder is there instead of Thunderbolt for the KOes on no/low Sp.D Politoed, who is seen on about 9% on all teams (according to the regular PO server). Extremespeed gives me a nice priority move, dealing heavy damage to Erufuun and most priority users. Shadow Ball is there for coverage, though I don't use it very often. Focus Sash is used to guarantee that I don't lose against the normal Deoxys-A (Life Orb).
The main purpose of Deoxys-A is to rip holes in the opposing team, so I can clean up afterwards with Hihidaruma, Skymin, or Hitmontop. As stated above, I usually use this as a lead, but when I don't, I usually switch this in after my first or second pokemon dies. Reiterating, I use Deoxys-A to get past their preliminary defenses, weaken the team synergy, and nab a KO or two. Sacrificing Deoxys isn't much of a problem for me, as long as I can get another hit in.

Against the 5 top used pokemon:
Nattorei: Is 2HKOed by Ice Beam.
Tyranitar: If I see this in the Wi-Fi preview, I lead with Hitmontop.
Scizor: I don't really have an answer to this one. I normally Thunder + XSpeed, then go to Hitmontop to revenge.
Doryuuzu: Nobody leads with Dory.
Gengar: Shadow Ball/Ice Beam, depending on what the other pokes are. Both of us get reduced to Sashes, and I outspeed and KO.

Considered Changes: Psychic or Psycho Boost or Psycho Shock over Shadow Ball.

Hitmontop @ Leftovers
Technician
Adamant
252 HP/252 Atk/4 Spd
- Fake Out
- Mach Punch
- Revenge
- Bullet Punch

This is your standard TechniLoom for revenge-killing with a simple twist: the 4 EVs in Defense are placed into Speed instead, to outspeed other base 70s who don't invest in speed (like other TechniTop and Skarmory). Fake Out is a nice move that has virtually no drawbacks, and Mach Punch is a really good STAB move that does quite a bit of damage. Revenge is a more powerful move that comes in handy sometimes. Bullet Punch is used to deal with Lati@s switch-ins.
Hitmontop was placed on this team to act as a one-pokemon-revenges-all pokemon, but it has evolved into a little more than that. This is my way of countering Darkrai once it has lulled something to sleep (usually Nattorei), as its more than good Special Defense stat prevents it to be KOed by Focus Blast or Dark Pulse. Again, it normally comes in after something dies, as 50/95/110 defenses aren't that great without defense investment.

Considered Changes: Stone Edge > Bullet Punch, OR Stone Edge > Revenge

Hihidaruma @ Choice Scarf
Encourage
Adamant
252 Atk/252 Spd/4 HP
- Flare Blitz
- Superpower
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake

This guy is just badass. Hihidaruma nets at least one kill per game. ALWAYS. Earthquake and Rock Slide give me the EdgeQuake combo; Superpower hits Tyranitar switch-ins extremely hard, but Flare Blitz is the crux of this set. Thanks to the measly 10% chance of burn, Flare Blitz receives the Encourage boost, which when combined with max attack, yields an essential 270BP move with 416 Attack; this is so powerful that it 2HKOes Latios, a common switch.
Hihidaruma is placed on this team so as to be able to deal tons of damage and be unstoppable (sounds cliched, right) during end-game. I try to avoid sending him out until the latter half of the match, but I like to do so against a Nattorei to scout for their Fire-counter, which allows me to double-switch the next time the Nattorei-Hihidaruma matchup occurs.

Considered Changes: Brick Break > Superpower

Burungeru @ Leftovers
Water Absorb
Calm
252 HP/252 Sp.D/4 Spd
- Boil Over
- Shadow Ball
- Taunt
- Recover

Burungeru is the first part of my defensive core. With immunities to Normal, Fighting, and Water, and resistances to Ice, Fire, Steel, and Bug, Burungeru can wall quite a bit. Boil Over and Shadow Ball are obligatory STAB moves, and each move has a chance of a debilitating side effect as an added bonus. Recover is probably the only reason that Burungeru is here and not some other bulky water, as the 50% instaheal really helps. Toxic was originally in the place of Taunt, but my team's style doesn't require many ill effects, and Taunt just wrecks Nattorei, many of whom like to switch in to my cute little jellyfish. The remaining 4 EVs are placed into speed to outrun other Burungeru, by the way.
I put Burungeru on my team as part of a two-man defense. Being specially bulky yields excellent results when matched up against something like a Zapdos; Burungeru is not 2HKOed by Thunderbolt in my experience. Burungeru also acts as my only Taunter as well, so I'm usually not very willing to let it go until the end. This actually has cost me a few wins, as it ends up being Burungeru v 2.

Considered Changes: Does anyone have a better EV spread?

Nattorei @ Leftovers
Iron Barbs
Relaxed
252 HP/252 Def/4 Sp.D
2 Speed IV
- Leech Seed
- Substitute
- Gyro Ball
- Power Whip

Nattorei is the second part of my defensive core. Leech Seed and Substitute make for the common SubSeeding strategy, and Iron Barbs just makes it more annoying. Gyro Ball and Power Whip give me dual STABs, but I find I'm not using them as often as other possible moves. Leftovers used to be Rugged Helmet in order for any physical threat to take huge recoil, but the loss of recovery outside of Leech Seed hurt me. The EVs are placed to maximize physical bulkiness (fun fact: standard Gliscor cannot break a Sub with Earthquake), and then remaining EVs are placed in Special Defense. The Speed IV is set to 2 so as to drastically increase the power of Gyro Ball while outspeeding other Nattorei that try to outspeed a regular Nattorei. Call me paranoid if you want.
Nattorei was put on this team to complete the 2-man defense core; Nattorei and Burungeru have excellent synergy as well as having a nice physical/special split. I usually send this in against every physical threat not named Roopushin or Garchomp; obviously, I'm scared of Drain Punch and Fire Fang/Fire Blast, respectively. However, having a stall war with other Nattorei really bother me, as nothing happens, and I am out-PP-stalled against Spikes Nattorei, which is pretty much every Nattorei except mine.

Considered Changes: Spikes > Gyro Ball/Power Whip OR Hidden Power [Fire] > Gyro Ball/Power Whip

Shaymin-S @ Life Orb
Serene Grace
Timid
252 Sp.A/252 Spd/4 HP
- Air Slash
- Seed Flare
- Leech Seed
- Substitute

Again, this is a standard set with a twist. Earth Power is replaced with Substitute as an attempt to gain more longevity. Sometimes works, sometimes doesn't. Leech Seed and Substitute are there once again for the SubSeeding combo. If I get time to set up, I usually restore health at the end of the turn, factoring in Life Orb damage. Air Slash and Seed Flare are STAB moves that just do a ridiculous amount of damage, and the side effects are welcome additions; without Earth Power, I do have trouble with Heatran, though.
Shaymin-S is on this team as a second [likely] suspect, so as to gain experience about the suspects. Regardless of testing, Skymin would've made my team anyway. 75 and 120 power STABs hit hard off of 120 base Sp.A, so Skymin fit the role of a special attacker extremely well. Shaymin-S usually switches in on Gliscor/Hippo/Tyranitar Earthquakes, and I can Seed Flare them for a KO.

Considered Changes: Earth Power > Substitute
Choice Scarf Shaymin-S > Current Shaymin-S

Closing/Threats:
I fare pretty well against most teams, but some are just ludicrously problematic, mainly due to some pokemon I cannot counter. This is the part where I need the most help. The stars after the name indicate the threat level out of 5.

Scarf Shaymin-S*****: Once you see my team in the Wi-Fi preview and you're packing this poke, you've pretty much got the game in the bag. There are only 2 ways I have to beat this thing, neither of which are reliable. The first way: If the opponent sends this in early, I can hope to not get flinched by the Air Slash and KO with Ice Beam. The second way (if Deo is dead): Go to Nattorei and hope I don't get flinched enough times to inflict tons of damage with Gyro Ball. Either way, if I can get Skymin down to low enough HP, Hitmontop can Fake Out and kill.

Kingdra in the Rain****: Once Nattorei is out of the way, this thing is absolutely terrifying. Shaymin-S is the only other Water resist, and is promptly KOed by Outrage; none of my pokemon have a Dragon-resist besides Natt. My hope is to get Kingdra to low enough health (40%-ish iirc) for it to die to Fake Out + Mach Punch.

Manaphy in the Rain***: Shaymin-S or Deoxys-A can kill this thing. Otherwise, I'm dead.

Scarf Sazandora or Scarf Randorusu***: As these are usually in the lead position, I just bunched them together. Deoxys-A is outsped, and is reduced to Focus Sash. I should be able to kill with Ice Beam, but they almost always use U-Turn to Scizor, which makes life really hard for me. Repeated Draco Meteors/Earthquakes/U-Turns hurt.

This is it for now. I'd love it if you could give me advice on EVs, movesets, anything, but advice on my "Considered Changes" would be greatly appreciated. I'm open to testing most things unless I've tried it already. Thanks so much!
​

 

[Gabe]

Sunny Day teams tear through your team pretty well- Venusaur outspeeds and OHKOes Shaymin with a Sun-boosted HP Fire, outspeeds and OHKOes Hihi with EQ, decimates Nattorei with HP Fire, and crushes Burungeru with Power Whip.

 

[Engineer Pikachu]

Sunny Day teams tear through your team pretty well- Venusaur outspeeds and OHKOes Shaymin with a Sun-boosted HP Fire, outspeeds and OHKOes Hihi with EQ, decimates Nattorei with HP Fire, and crushes Burungeru with Power Whip.

Yep, but luckily I don't see many of these. If I see a Ninetales on my team, I'm almost guaranteed to lead with Shaymin, though, instead of Deoxys-A; I think Skymin 2HKOes with Air Slash, and if it dies, Hitmontop comes in and kills with FO + MP (<3 this combo). I'll also be a lot more willing to switch Nattorei in against stuff like Venusaur and Tangrowth and hope they use Power Whip, as Nattorei has almost no use against a SD team.

 

[Engineer Pikachu]

bump

 

[Nosferalto]

Hi Engineer Pikachu,

Since nobody has given this team a proper rate, I'm going to give you some advice. I would strongly reccomend using Rapid Spin on Hitmontop. Your team is absolutely destroyed by entry hazards (which are getting even more common this generation), two members of this team are weak to SR while Spikes and Toxic Spikes whittles down Burungeru, Deoxys-A, Hitmontop and Hihidaruma. I think it's safe to say that your team despises residual damage, so a spinner will be an excellent addition to your team, to help against teams that run a lot of EH.

Give Spikes > Substitute on Nattorei a test. Nattorei isn't a very effective SubSeeder and it needs all the HP it can get. I think Spikes would be much more useful to wear down the foe's team which works well on this team since it has some decent offensive capabilities and spin blocker as well. Nattorei also wants SR as it is crucial to basically any team, making threats such as Shaymin-S less dangerous. I would also advocate Leftovers over LO on Shaymin to make sure it sticks around longer as Sub + LO + SR + potential SS is a bit too much.

As for minor changes, Psycho Boost instead of Shadow Ball on Deoxys-A is something to consider as it provides a STAB move and a powerful move to take down things that aren't weak to your other moves. Shadow Ball's use is very limited while I can see Psycho Boost having much more utility in general.

gl!

 

[Iconic]

Is there any reason why Dexoys-A doesn't have Hidden Power Fire? Aside from the loss in one Speed point, which isn't too big of a deal since most Deoxys-A suffer from this too, there is really no reason not to be using it over Shadow Ball. Hidden Power Fire an excellent option on Deoxys-A in particular because it gives you a reliable way of beating Scizor and Nattorei, who are two common switch-ins to Deoxys-A. Nattorei is actually never 2HKOed by Ice Beam, and ones that invest heavily in Special Defense won't even be 4HKOed after Leftovers, making HP Fire that much more appealing. You might seriously want to consider Stealth Rock over Extremespeed on Deoxys-A, as I don't see all that much use in Extremespeed. Stealth Rock is a pretty vital entry hazard to build up damage on your opponents and also makes it far easier for you to deal with Shaymin-S especially.

I would also strongly recommend Will-O-Wisp over Shadow Ball on Burungeru, especially since between Shaymin-S and Nattorei, you have more than enough ways to hurt other Burungeru. Will-O-Wisp is pretty necessary if you're using Taunt, because once you Taunt opposing Nattorei, they can still pummel you with powerful Power Whips unless they're burned. Having a solid status move can help build up residual damage on switch-ins, and can also shut down Pokemon like Scizor and Kingdra expecting to come in for free.

If you're having problems with Rain Dance teams and Scarf Shaymin-S, a simple solution would be to 'switch' Nattorei's and Burungeru's EVs and natures. I find Nattorei to be more suited to take Special Attackers in the rain, especially Manaphy, while Burugeru is much better at dealing with physical threats like Kabutops. For example, with a Sassy nature and a EV spread of 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD, a +3 Manaphy in the rain won't even 2HKO Nattorei with Surf unless it has a Life Orb. A Specially Defensive Nattorei will also really help your with your Scarf Shaymin-S issues, since it only takes something like 20% from Air Slash. Although you'll have to get around the flinches, the fact that you take way less damage from them will give you a much better chance to get a Gyro Ball off. Conversely, a Defensive Burungeru can take Kingdra's Outages much better, and follow it up with a Will-O-Wisp, rendering it useless and building up damage on it every turn.

You'll also want Spikes over Substitute on Nattorei and Leftovers over Life Orb on Shaymin-S for reasons already mentioned. If Hitmontop has been working well for you, then definitely keep it, but you could as test Roobushin in his place to take advantage of his ability to set up on defensive teams with Bulk Up. He still provides you with insurance against Darkrai in the form of Mach Punch, and he is just as good of a Tyranitar counter as Hitmontop.