Effetto Werther

[decis]

Effetto Werther

hi smogon, i'm a new user and i want to introduce myself with this rmt! sorry for my bad english, i'm italian. I want to present you this rain team. i built it a few days ago and it gave me quite good results on showdown's ladder.

A quick look​

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the team is based on keldeo, so I start from Keldeo + Politoed, because of the powered up STAB water atks, allowing Keldeo to deal huge damage.

after this, I needed something able to deal with jellicend and rotom-w, what's better to do this than Latias, that can setup on both? plus, it helps against sun teams

at this point, the weaknesses of my team were pretty clear: Jirachi and most of the Dragons, as well as Fighting types, thus, I decided to pick Landorus-T and Toxicroak, both cover Fighting types pretty well, and Landorus also offers me Stealth Rocks, and checks CM Jirachi pretty well, while Toxicroak not only offers useful resistances and a Water immunity, but it also can set up and sweep unpreapred teams

The last member I picked is Jirachi, whose job is to heal my team through Wish and defend me from the Latwins and Tornadus-T

The Team​

Inverno Nucleare (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Drizzle
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SAtk
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Protect
- Scald
- Toxic
- Perish Song

Okay, it's pretty impossible to think about a rain team without this guy, isn't it? I used to prefer the scarf version but I think the defensive variant fits better in this team, since the main purpose is to slap a toxic on Jellicent as soon as possible, making the substall possible with Toxicroak.
perish song works well against baton pass/smash pass and as a last weapon against threats like calm mind Reuniclus. Even without special defensive EVs this guy is capable to take care of Rock Polish Landorus, since earth Power does a mere 46%-54%.

Effetto Werther @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Justified
IVs: 30 Atk / 30 Def
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Secret Sword
- Surf
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Hydro Pump

This guy is awesome. Teams without Celebi or Jellicent fall like toy soldiers against its boosted hydro pumps. Probably the best revengekiller around. I considered the HP Electric to revengekill Gyarados and to hit Jellicent, making it impossible to recover coupled to the toxic damage, but dragons are more dangerous, and since Jellicent should be toxic'd by Politoed or just used as a setup fodder by Latias, it's not a huge problem, in general.

Blitz Spirit (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Dragon Pulse
- Recover
- Substitute

I needed an electric resistor, so I decided to go with Latias which works very well, especially now that Genesect is gone
This set doesn't fear almost nothing, and is capable to set up on pokémon which the rest of the team has trouble with, such as Jellicent. It's also my main finisher.

Vynamite (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 196 HP / 96 Atk / 216 Def
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- U-turn
- Stone Edge

Intimidate coupled with a great bulk let this guy switch on physical attackers like Terrakion or dragons without fear and strike back with his strong edgequake coverage. U-Turn keeps momentum on my side while Stealth Rock is pretty self explanatory

Oppenheimer (F) @ Black Sludge
Trait: Dry Skin
EVs: 244 HP / 252 Atk / 12 Spe
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Bulk Up
- Substitute
- Drain Punch
- Sucker Punch

This is one of the most underrated pokémon around, and one of the most difficult to deal with 'cause of his sucker punch + substitute combination, which makes it a worthy adversary if you lose the mindgame. Even without the immediate power of the SD version, its Drain Punch is still capable to deal huge damage, and with a more defensive spread it has less trouble to find the opportunity to set up. It also removes toxic spikes from my side and sets up on lots of pokémon like Tentacruel, toxic'd Jellicents and even Ferrothorns.

Futuregasm @ Leftovers
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd)
- Thunder
- Iron Head
- Protect
- Wish

As last, my life insurance against Tornadus-T, Lati@s and all those who spam powerful special moves. Wish is a claimed support from Keldeo and Thunder helps Toxicroak setting up.

ETT:

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Futuregasm (Jirachi) @ Leftovers
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd)
- Thunder
- Iron Head
- Protect
- Wish

Oppenheimer (Toxicroak) (F) @ Black Sludge
Trait: Dry Skin
EVs: 244 HP / 252 Atk / 12 Spe
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Bulk Up
- Substitute
- Drain Punch
- Sucker Punch

Vynamite (Landorus-T) (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 196 HP / 96 Atk / 216 Def
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- U-turn
- Stone Edge

Inverno Nucleare (Politoed) (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Drizzle
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SAtk
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Protect
- Scald
- Toxic
- Perish Song

Effetto Werther (Keldeo-R) @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Justified
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Secret Sword
- Surf
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Hydro Pump

Blitz Spirit (Latias) (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Dragon Pulse
- Recover
- Substitute

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sorry if I didn't write much but my english isn't that good I:

 

[LuckOverSkill]

Hey Decision Makers, as I already told you, this is a very great team that works excellently, there's not much to be fixed admittedly, although on Toxicroak I would put those 12 Def EVs on Speed, to outspeed 0 speed Rotom-W which is fairly common nowadays since it runs as much bulk as possible. This would help you to place a Substitute before it Will-o-Wisps you or just attack before it, it's not that big of an investment anyway, you won't miss those 3 Defense points at all.

Seeing as your Politoed wants to Toxic the opposing Jellicent, I'd invest a bit in Speed on it, not much, 32 EVs are more than enough, this would make you faster than basically all the Taunt Jellicent builds, allowing you to Toxic it before it Taunts you. It also makes you faster than 100 Speed CBtar, which might make you lose the weather turn 1 (if you lead with Toed and they lead with Ttar) but that helps you a lot in the long run since Ttar will lack any form of recovery and you'll be able to Scald it for damage and fishing for a burn.

One last thing, I'd make the Landorus' EVs spread: EVs: 136 HP / 96 Atk / 188 Def / 88 Spd, this gives you a Leftovers numbers, and makes you faster than 8 Speed Tentacruel, but that's up to preferences, I guess.

Great team, luvdisc'd!

 

[Mosquiton]

Hey man, this is a solid team, and also an interesting cocept, heh.

However, volturn teams, especially the infamous ''Scrotom'' core are kinda problematic, Jellicent with taunt also gives you problems, by destroying latias in the long run, an option, albeit a very odd one is changing Latias with a Nasty Plot Celebi with Baton pass.
yes, it's not really something standard, however, Celebi can setup on a great deal of people, while beating even the majority of rain stall, and at the same time stopping opposing Rotom-w, Baton Pass here helps you escape against Scizor, but you can also use it for Keldeo, since Keldeo and Celebi form a great core, weak only to flying, and nobody likes a +2/+1 Keldeo in the rain, nobody.
Another problem might be Skarmory for you, since he can setup on Landorus, Toxicroak, and Latias/Celebi, however, now that you have Celebi Ferrothorn isn't a big deal for you, as such you may consider Starmie over Toxicroak, Starmie can still remove toxic spikes (while sr and spikes too), but keeps you an higher momentum than toxicroak

Sets:

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Celebi @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 200 HP / 188 SAtk / 120 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Nasty Plot
- Giga Drain
- Earth Power
- Baton Pass

Starmie @ Life Orb
Trait: Illuminate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Hydro Pump
- Thunder
- Rapid Spin
- Ice Beam

Hope it helped, good luck!
Ludvisc'd

 

[Asek]

Hi

Cool team. First off, I don't think Thunder is the best way for jirachi to spread paralysis. Body Slam > Thunder is a far better option for your team imo. Any Variant of Thundurus and Jolteon are both very threatening once latias is gone, as they are free to wreck your team with electric + ice coverage. The variant of thundurus that is really threatening is an Agility or Double Dance variant. Outspeeding and heavily denting your whole team after a boost, your only team member that can take it on well is latias, who can be further boosted up on and jirachi who is just set up bait atm. Using Body Slam alleviates these issues by giving you a way of paralysing these 2 pokemon as well as ground types, of which landorus can be somewhat threatening depending on its set.

Now, more of a personal thing but I find that Refresh > Substitute works far better on latias. If you look at stuff latias can really take advantage of and set up on such as weak scalds and rotom-w, latias can't switch in due to fear of getting status'd. Refresh alleviates this issue and lets you switch in with out worrying about an untimely burn or other random status pretty much making your sweeper useless. Refresh still protects from status, but is a far more reliable safe guard imo and although you lose your protection from revenge killers, most of latias's checks won't mind that you've got one up (ferrothorn, CB scizor) as they can just clear the sub and then keep attacking / go to team mate respecitvely. Refresh is pretty much a better option in the current meta.

GL with the team

 

[dragonuser]

Hey there,

This is a pretty solid team and there are few blatant weaknesses, so grats on that lol. Like LuckOverSkill said, I would definitely move those 12 Defensive EV's on Toxicroak into Speed. 12 EV's is a rather minimal change in Defense, but it helps a lot with your Speed. Ok so this team also seems to be a bit hazards weak. Some of your Pokemon lack initial power making it easy for hazard layers to setup on you (primarily Skarmory). The best way to fix this without changing a Pokemon, and messing with your synergy, would be to make Latias a more offensive LO set. This gives you a lot more initial power and Latias is a fantastic LO tank in this metagame. Latias can still perform a lot of the same roles as its previous set, just with more initial power and wallbreaking power.

Latias set

Latias (F) @ Life Orb
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 72 HP / 184 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Surf
- Psyshock
- Recover

This EV spread gives you a LO number, while giving you a bit more bulk. The rest of the EVs are spent maximizing speed and power. Anyways, cool team gl.

EDIT: definitely test Body Slam on Jirachi, but be careful as that gives you another Skarmory weak Pokemon who is a primary wall to your main sweeper.

 

[decis]

Hi

Cool team. First off, I don't think Thunder is the best way for jirachi to spread paralysis. Body Slam > Thunder is a far better option for your team imo. Any Variant of Thundurus and Jolteon are both very threatening once latias is gone, as they are free to wreck your team with electric + ice coverage. The variant of thundurus that is really threatening is an Agility or Double Dance variant. Outspeeding and heavily denting your whole team after a boost, your only team member that can take it on well is latias, who can be further boosted up on and jirachi who is just set up bait atm. Using Body Slam alleviates these issues by giving you a way of paralysing these 2 pokemon as well as ground types, of which landorus can be somewhat threatening depending on its set.

Now, more of a personal thing but I find that Refresh > Substitute works far better on latias. If you look at stuff latias can really take advantage of and set up on such as weak scalds and rotom-w, latias can't switch in due to fear of getting status'd. Refresh alleviates this issue and lets you switch in with out worrying about an untimely burn or other random status pretty much making your sweeper useless. Refresh still protects from status, but is a far more reliable safe guard imo and although you lose your protection from revenge killers, most of latias's checks won't mind that you've got one up (ferrothorn, CB scizor) as they can just clear the sub and then keep attacking / go to team mate respecitvely. Refresh is pretty much a better option in the current meta.

GL with the team

Hi man, thanks for the rate ;)

I'm used to running Thunder on Jirachi so I'm not too keen on that change. With Latias, as you said, without Sub I'm a easytarget of the various revenge killers that would also nullify my statup, if I switch out, but, thanks to the sub, I can scout Ttar's switch ins and then place in Toxicroak that can grab a free boost on Tyranitar, or I can, if my opp has a good counter / check of Toxicroak, just double switch to gain a better matchup.
I already considered refresh politoed, testing the team, but I couldn't get it to work well, and, if I happened to lose Toxicroak, I'd be too weak to Gyarados, so I'd rather keep perish song + protect

PS: Cool avatar *-*

Hey there,

This is a pretty solid team and there are few blatant weaknesses, so grats on that lol. Like LuckOverSkill said, I would definitely move those 12 Defensive EV's on Toxicroak into Speed. 12 EV's is a rather minimal change in Defense, but it helps a lot with your Speed. Ok so this team also seems to be a bit hazards weak. Some of your Pokemon lack initial power making it easy for hazard layers to setup on you (primarily Skarmory). The best way to fix this without changing a Pokemon, and messing with your synergy, would be to make Latias a more offensive LO set. This gives you a lot more initial power and Latias is a fantastic LO tank in this metagame. Latias can still perform a lot of the same roles as its previous set, just with more initial power and wallbreaking power.

Latias set

Latias (F) @ Life Orb
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 72 HP / 184 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Surf
- Psyshock
- Recover

This EV spread gives you a LO number, while giving you a bit more bulk. The rest of the EVs are spent maximizing speed and power. Anyways, cool team gl.

EDIT: definitely test Body Slam on Jirachi, but be careful as that gives you another Skarmory weak Pokemon who is a primary wall to your main sweeper.

thank for your rate, I'll make sure to test the mods you and luck suggested me :)