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Effective Offensive Combinations
- Thread starter Legacy Raider
- Start date
I've actually been trying out the Lucario + Salamence combo.
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Lucario and Salamence DO resist each other's weaknesses for the most part. Going with something like SpecsMence and SD Lucario would have great synergy where SpecsMence can really damage anything not named Blissey whom Lucario easily pulls an SD off against. Zapdos waiting to Heat Wave or Gyarados waiting to EQ/Waterfall? Just bring in Salamence and Draco Meteor OHKO. But that's just a couple of the multiple options both of these guys can run....
I've used this combo in Platinum to some degree of success, so I'm pretty sure it can work with a nice team backing it up.
Lucario and Salamence DO resist each other's weaknesses for the most part. Going with something like SpecsMence and SD Lucario would have great synergy where SpecsMence can really damage anything not named Blissey whom Lucario easily pulls an SD off against. Zapdos waiting to Heat Wave or Gyarados waiting to EQ/Waterfall? Just bring in Salamence and Draco Meteor OHKO. But that's just a couple of the multiple options both of these guys can run....
I've used this combo in Platinum to some degree of success, so I'm pretty sure it can work with a nice team backing it up.
I prefer the combination of CB Tyranitar and CB Scizor. CB Scizor hits shit like Zapdos, Heatran, Magnezone, Rotom, etc. for decent damage with U-Turn, then you send in Tyranitar to finish them. This means you don't have to mispredict a Heatran/Magnezone switchin and use Superpower, when they send in Rotom/Zapdos.
kyrogrepwns, that looks pretty good. They both lure for each other nicely (You have Salamence in and go directly to Lucario, getting a free turn for a SD) and do a lot of damage, however both face the problem of predictability. A more obvious special attacker would probably go better in Salamence's place.
The best offensive combination are the ones that lure. Resisting each other's weaknesses hardly matters at all because offensive dudes should not be getting hit. Without luring, they are just two sweepers. Remember that everyone!
The best offensive combination are the ones that lure. Resisting each other's weaknesses hardly matters at all because offensive dudes should not be getting hit. Without luring, they are just two sweepers. Remember that everyone!
I'm more experienced with Stall teams than Offensive teams, but aren't Offensive teams supposed to be built around solid resistances? If so, wouldn't you want the combination the team is being built around to work well with each other as far as typing goes? I think it is more relevant than it seems at first glance, but I could be wrong.
@ThePakistani: Granted offensive combinations that lure are good, but resistances actually do matter, since if an offensive combo resist each other's weaknesses, you actually have more leeway to switch around and put pressure onto the opponent's team, rather than relying on your defensive core all the time, and with offensive teams usually having around one/two defensive pokemon, it's not good to let them be hurt early in the battle. Think Salamence+Magnezone, when predicting ice attacks, just go to magnezone, rather than relying on other pokes, at least you keep up the offense.
Something new I've been trying out lately.
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Yanmega @ Life Orb
Modest - Speed Boost
40 Def, 252 SpA, 216 Spe
- Bug Buzz
- Air Slash
- HP Ground
- Hypnosis
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Dugtrio @ Choice Band
Adamant - Arena Trap
252 Atk, 40 Def, 216 Spe
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Sucker Punch
- Aerial Ace
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In general, there are 3 pokemon that stop a Yanmega sweep: Blissey, Magnezone and Heatran. Apart from that there is very little that can stand up to all of Yanmega's attacks and still be laughing. Dugtrio can remove all 3 of these problem pokemon for Yanmega, allowing it to have a clean sweep through an opponent's team. However, more often than not you will either predict the problem pokemon's switch in and go straight to Duggy, or have a good transition pokemon in between, as Dugtrio finds it hard to switch in on Fire Blasts and Ice Beams. Scarfed Heatran can be a problem, but you can always run Choice Scarf on Dugtrio to outrun them and scarf Magnezone. However, Blissey becomes a lot harder to handle without the boost granted by CB.
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LR.
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Yanmega @ Life Orb
Modest - Speed Boost
40 Def, 252 SpA, 216 Spe
- Bug Buzz
- Air Slash
- HP Ground
- Hypnosis
+
Dugtrio @ Choice Band
Adamant - Arena Trap
252 Atk, 40 Def, 216 Spe
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Sucker Punch
- Aerial Ace
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In general, there are 3 pokemon that stop a Yanmega sweep: Blissey, Magnezone and Heatran. Apart from that there is very little that can stand up to all of Yanmega's attacks and still be laughing. Dugtrio can remove all 3 of these problem pokemon for Yanmega, allowing it to have a clean sweep through an opponent's team. However, more often than not you will either predict the problem pokemon's switch in and go straight to Duggy, or have a good transition pokemon in between, as Dugtrio finds it hard to switch in on Fire Blasts and Ice Beams. Scarfed Heatran can be a problem, but you can always run Choice Scarf on Dugtrio to outrun them and scarf Magnezone. However, Blissey becomes a lot harder to handle without the boost granted by CB.
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LR.
With those EVs, an Extremespeed from Adamant Lucario will OHKO you 92% of the time after SR. Move those HP EVs over to Def and you stand a much better chance (albeit it's still a OHKO a rather worrying 79% of the time but meh!). After all, Lucario's Extremespeed is a sizeable concern for Yanmega...he'd really rather not lose 40% of his health so if Duggy can kill him too then that's a bonus. Not like those 40 HP EVs are gonna help a great deal anyway. In ADV, Duggy always used 40 SpD EVs because he's really better off at specialising his EVs to survive a specific attack (Raikou's Hidden Power for example) rather than dumping them in HP and hoping for the best.LR said:
EDIT: And do you really think that Yanmega set has the most sweeping potential? Try the SubPetaya set, or just slap on a Life Orb and use HP Ground > Protect. Bug Buzz/Air Slash/Protect/Hypnosis set is a decent lead, but it's not gonna sweep anytime soon! And how likely is it that his Focus Sash will still have any value by the time Dugtrio has done his job? Stealth Rock will almost certainly be down.
Thanks Lee =). I'll move them to defense.
Well on my team I was using him as a lead who could also come in late game to sweep, and the Focus Sash was for extra insurance. Of course, as a sweeper I really should make it a LO version. Thanks for the heads up.
LR.
EDIT: Now since Yanmega has HP Ground I've changed the EVs so that it outspeeds Timid Scarf Heatran and Modest Scarf Porygon-Z after a speed boost.
Flygon Scizor
Is a really good offensive and defensive combo and will effectively beat all ttars
Flygon absorbs all the fire and ground attacks aimed at scizor and scizor easily takes the ice and dragon.
Flygon's real beauty lies in its ability to CB U-turn disrupting scizor common counters ie Zapdos RotomH both of which it can also KO with outrage or stone edge it can also destroy scizors other counters with the steels with EQ. With these pokemon gone scizor can SD up and cause havoc.
Admittedly these two have problems with Skarmory but thats nothing a little magnezone cant sort out.
Flygon
Is a really good offensive and defensive combo and will effectively beat all ttars
Flygon absorbs all the fire and ground attacks aimed at scizor and scizor easily takes the ice and dragon.
Flygon's real beauty lies in its ability to CB U-turn disrupting scizor common counters ie Zapdos RotomH both of which it can also KO with outrage or stone edge it can also destroy scizors other counters with the steels with EQ. With these pokemon gone scizor can SD up and cause havoc.
Admittedly these two have problems with Skarmory but thats nothing a little magnezone cant sort out.
Flygon
I have played something similar to that, except I ended up adding on timid specszone, to take out blissey and just do much more damage than the traditional scarfzone, catching opponents unawares. with this combination, you have a pseudo-trap combination, so after that you pretty much just stick on a logar to help further neuter blissey, add a scarfer or two somewhere to further neuter offense and just make sure you take out blissey against stall/balance and you pretty much have a cool team. oh and you can even play with u-turn over hypnosis on yanmega to really screw people up.
Fighting types aren't covered very well by this combo. But it's a decent combo overall.
Broken Wings
Guest
Snorlax + Gliscor + Scizor
Alright let me explain the above combo. Snorlax tends to bring out Pokemon with strong fighting moves such as Lucario, Heracross and Machamp. Gliscor Takes each of those Pokemon with ease. Gliscor can outspeed any version of Lucario and OHKO with Earthquake. Gliscor can also threaten Heracross with Aerial Ace. Now, Gliscor tends to bring out Pokemon with Ice and Water attacks such as Vaporeon, Starmie, and Suicune. Snorlax easily sponges any move that Starmie, Vaporeon, and Suicune throw at it and can hit back hard with Body Slam or Return. Now, Scizor tends to attract Pokemon such as Zapdos and Heatran onto the field. Snorlax easily takes on Zapdos one on one and can hit back hard with Body Slam and also takes on Heatran and can threaten it with Earthquake. Gliscor can also take on Zapdos without Hidden power Ice since after a Swords Dance, it OHKOs Zapdos. Snorlax also tends to attract Pokemon like Weavile and Tyranitar onto the field all of which can be killed by Scizor. While all of these three Pokemon work great offensively, they also work great defensively. Scizor has a huge weakness to Fire which Snorlax resists thanks to his ability Thick Fat. Snorlax is weak to Fighting which Gliscor resists. And finally, Gliscor is weak to Ice which Scizor and Snorlax resist.
If you are interested in which sets to use on these Pokemon, I usually use the following:
Snorlax@ Choice Band
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 Atk/4 Def/252 SDef
Nature: Adamant (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Crunch
- Return
- Selfdestruct
- Superpower
Choice Banded Snorlax puts the hurt on pretty much every pokemon in the metagame. My special sponge as well, it allows me to switch in on stuff such as Suicune and Heatran with impunity. Its shiny new toy Superpower is much more effective at nailing the common Ttar/Scizor switch in then Earthquake.
Gliscor @ Life Orb
Nature: Jolly
Ability: Hyper Cutter
Ev's: 252 HP, 40 Atk, 216 Spe
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Roost
Outspeeds Jolly Lucario and most Salamence and Zapdos. After a Swords Dance, it OHKOs Salamence, Zapdos, Gyarados, Togekiss, with Stone Edge, while OHKOing Metagross, Tyranitar, Heatran, Lucario, etc with Earthquake. Roost is to recover the damage given from Life Orb.
Scizor @ Leftovers
Nature: Adamant
Ability: Technician
Ev's: 252 HP, 76 Atk, 176 SpD, 4 Spe
- Swords Dance
- Bullet Punch
- Brick Break
- Roost
Once Snorlax and Gliscor take care of the threats that harm Scizor, Scizor can begin to set up and swep the remaining Pokemon on the opponents team. Scizor also serves as a good revenge killer with Bullet Punch.
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Well that is all. Hope you liked it :nerd:
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This looks solid, though adding Pursuit to the CB Snorlax could eliminate those Pokemon like Starmie altogether, helping Gliscor & Scizor do what they do best. This would require taking off Selfdestruct though, because it is an illegal combination iirc.
Snorlax + Gliscor + Scizor
Alright let me explain the above combo. Snorlax tends to bring out Pokemon with strong fighting moves such as Lucario, Heracross and Machamp. Gliscor Takes each of those Pokemon with ease. Gliscor can outspeed any version of Lucario and OHKO with Earthquake. Gliscor can also threaten Heracross with Aerial Ace. Now, Gliscor tends to bring out Pokemon with Ice and Water attacks such as Vaporeon, Starmie, and Suicune. Snorlax easily sponges any move that Starmie, Vaporeon, and Suicune throw at it and can hit back hard with Body Slam or Return. Now, Scizor tends to attract Pokemon such as Zapdos and Heatran onto the field. Snorlax easily takes on Zapdos one on one and can hit back hard with Body Slam and also takes on Heatran and can threaten it with Earthquake. Gliscor can also take on Zapdos without Hidden power Ice since after a Swords Dance, it OHKOs Zapdos. Snorlax also tends to attract Pokemon like Weavile and Tyranitar onto the field all of which can be killed by Scizor. While all of these three Pokemon work great offensively, they also work great defensively. Scizor has a huge weakness to Fire which Snorlax resists thanks to his ability Thick Fat. Snorlax is weak to Fighting which Gliscor resists. And finally, Gliscor is weak to Ice which Scizor and Snorlax resist.
If you are interested in which sets to use on these Pokemon, I usually use the following:
Snorlax@ Choice Band
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 Atk/4 Def/252 SDef
Nature: Adamant (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Crunch
- Return
- Selfdestruct
- Superpower
Choice Banded Snorlax puts the hurt on pretty much every pokemon in the metagame. My special sponge as well, it allows me to switch in on stuff such as Suicune and Heatran with impunity. Its shiny new toy Superpower is much more effective at nailing the common Ttar/Scizor switch in then Earthquake.
Gliscor @ Life Orb
Nature: Jolly
Ability: Hyper Cutter
Ev's: 252 HP, 40 Atk, 216 Spe
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Roost
Outspeeds Jolly Lucario and most Salamence and Zapdos. After a Swords Dance, it OHKOs Salamence, Zapdos, Gyarados, Togekiss, with Stone Edge, while OHKOing Metagross, Tyranitar, Heatran, Lucario, etc with Earthquake. Roost is to recover the damage given from Life Orb.
Scizor @ Leftovers
Nature: Adamant
Ability: Technician
Ev's: 252 HP, 76 Atk, 176 SpD, 4 Spe
- Swords Dance
- Bullet Punch
- Brick Break
- Roost
Once Snorlax and Gliscor take care of the threats that harm Scizor, Scizor can begin to set up and swep the remaining Pokemon on the opponents team. Scizor also serves as a good revenge killer with Bullet Punch.
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Well that is all. Hope you liked it :nerd:
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You'd need a steel type to cover the rock weakness that gyara has, and chances are will be talking down a frail jolt as well, as well as every other type that isn't resisted.
No you won't... how many times do I have to remind people that this is about offensive combinations. GyaraJolt works great as an offensive combo not because they cover each other's weaknesses, but because they give each other free switch ins to keep up the offense. Yes, a steel type is nice when you are considering GyaraJolt to be a part of a defensive core, but when you are using them simply as two synergic attackers then you don't need to ensure you have the Rock weakness covered. Yanmega/Dugtrio get raped by any ice attack, Lucario/Scizor get raped by any Fire attack... you get the picture. Covering each others weaknesses to the dot are not qualities required of an offensive core.
There is another thread for the defensive cores.
LR.
Something new I've been trying out lately.
____________________
+
____________________
Yanmega @ Life Orb
Modest - Speed Boost
40 Def, 252 SpA, 216 Spe
- Bug Buzz
- Air Slash
- HP Ground
- Hypnosis
+
Dugtrio @ Choice Band
Adamant - Arena Trap
252 Atk, 40 Def, 216 Spe
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Sucker Punch
- Aerial Ace
____________________
In general, there are 3 pokemon that stop a Yanmega sweep: Blissey, Magnezone and Heatran. Apart from that there is very little that can stand up to all of Yanmega's attacks and still be laughing. Dugtrio can remove all 3 of these problem pokemon for Yanmega, allowing it to have a clean sweep through an opponent's team. However, more often than not you will either predict the problem pokemon's switch in and go straight to Duggy, or have a good transition pokemon in between, as Dugtrio finds it hard to switch in on Fire Blasts and Ice Beams. Scarfed Heatran can be a problem, but you can always run Choice Scarf on Dugtrio to outrun them and scarf Magnezone. However, Blissey becomes a lot harder to handle without the boost granted by CB.
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LR.
Unfortunately, Zapdos and Aerodactyl wall Yanmega though they can be put to sleep. Similiarly to Rotom. In addition, they can't be trapped by Dugtrio.
Switching to HP Ice may prove a bit more beneficial. Both are rather weak though to anything with Ice Beam. CB EQ won't kill Blissey, while if it has Ice Beam it'll get away with killing both of them most likely.
You made this thread in response to mine? I'm touched. I started a phenomenon.
As for offense, I like the idea of Toxic spikes support and Gengar. every special wall, barring Uxie and Cress, is hit by tspikes. Gengar walls spinning attempts and will hit U and C hard anyway.
A team built around this would revolve around setting up the tspikes and baiting bliss or special wall with a special sweeper, then stalling out bliss. Other entry hazards would be nice to help with the predictable switches.
Like most of my ideas, ive never tried this, but it seems like it would work.
By january 7 I'll be back on shoddy and smogon! This vacation will really screw me in whatever metagame I come back to.
As for offense, I like the idea of Toxic spikes support and Gengar. every special wall, barring Uxie and Cress, is hit by tspikes. Gengar walls spinning attempts and will hit U and C hard anyway.
A team built around this would revolve around setting up the tspikes and baiting bliss or special wall with a special sweeper, then stalling out bliss. Other entry hazards would be nice to help with the predictable switches.
Like most of my ideas, ive never tried this, but it seems like it would work.
By january 7 I'll be back on shoddy and smogon! This vacation will really screw me in whatever metagame I come back to.
Gengar/Azelf + a strong special sweeper like Alakazam or Starmie. Really after blissey is gone you see how truly threatening these pokemon can be.
LOL, I posted the exact same idea in the defensive thread. But I think Gonizor is more offensive than defensive.
Problem is, some may try to kill your magneton with their magnezone, and you can't switch out!
Personally, I like this thread, and disagree with Aeroblacktyl.
This thread is essentially on the discussion of how one may pull off a sweep, either with one pokemon trying to clear the way and set up the other, or both working to help eliminate the primary counters for the other. As you said, we have six pokemon, and these are presumably meant to help aid your primary offensive core; for the Magnemence/Salazone combo you mentioned, that would obviously include somthing to counter mamoswine, as presumably no one is good (rather, lucky) enough to manage to outpredict it enough times (although 11 isn't necessary; if you predict it's predicting a switch, you can hit, and both salamence and magnezone can take a good chunk of health off with an attack). Other pokemon would also be included to stop whatever means the opponent is using to try and win, whichever sort of team they're using.
You say we will never have enough pokemon to counter everysingle strategy. This is true.
We aren't talking about trying, we're talking about our own strategies that our opponents are going to have to try and counter; the rest of the team would be pokemon devoted to these roles (advancing the strategy, and attempting to halt the opponents).
As I said before, I think this is a great thread.
I don't have anything to contribute immediately myself, however; I'm a mediocre team builder at best. One reason why I'm interested in this thread, as knowing how is the first step to improving!
One problem I've had is that I've never really thought of how to get a pokemon to be able to pull off a sweep, thus, the end result is all of my teams being a compilation of counters to threads with choice items slapped on so they can pack pounters.
The best conservative rating I've ever reached is ~1580-not very good, but I'd like to think not that bad either; it could be considered a strategy in itself to simply have defensive powerhouses that can hit hard, trying to force the opponent into the defensive. Although, this isn't at all mutually exclusive with the sort of strategies being discussed here.
However, I would like to try and test with teams with at least one pokemon that can set up; once I have a core built that can help make it happen, it should work quite well.