Resource Effective Lures in NU

Status
Not open for further replies.
Lures in NU

Defining Lures:
Lures are Pokemon that use sets to draw in their usual counters and expose of them with surprise. This can also mean either KO'ing, weakening, or crippling them for a teammate to take them on more effectively. Lures are a tad uncommon, and some people just use flat out bad lures. A lure may be good for one thing, but sacrificing a key component is not a good lure. For example, running Magic Coat on Klinklang seems good in theory, bouncing back Taunts, Thunder Waves, and Will-O-Wisps; however, this means Klinklang can only use it once, effectively making it somewhat useless and easy to predict around. You end up being prone to being outplayed, making it more detrimental than beneficial. Lures should be able to consistently be as / more effective than their normal counterparts.

Bad Examples of Lures:
Bad examples of lures are Pokemon that 'over-specialize' in what they do to try desperately to beat their checks / counters, bad lures' functions are better left to teammates, for the most part.


Zangoose @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Toxic Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Facade
- Knock Off
- Close Combat
- Thunderbolt
(set recommended by Raseri)

Thunderbolt Zangoose does appear gimmicky, but upon looking further one can see that Thunderbolt could be used to nail Qwilfish switch ins. One average ladder player might think: "Hmm, sounds cool. I'll be innovative and use this!" However, when looking closer, you realize that Thunderbolt is never worth it:
  • 0 SpA Zangoose Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Qwilfish: 138-164 (41.3 - 49.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery
  • -1 252 Atk Toxic Boost Zangoose Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Qwilfish: 181-214 (54.1 - 64%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
You sacrifice the ability to run Quick Attack and Swords Dance for the ability to attempt to lure in Qwilfish, only to fail horribly. Zangoose's Special Attack is horribly, anyways, and it's just not worth it. For an even better one, I'd like to quote Doughboy, from the OU Lures thread:
A bad lure is one that is either overly specialized and / or lessens the amount of targets it can hit effectively in exchange for hitting a single target effectively. If you specialize your lure too much, it becomes a non threat to a larger amount of pokemon and only to the pokemon you are targeting. It will only be effective if the pokemon you are targeting is in the match, which is less likely to happen when you consider you might be going into a single battle for a tournament. Here is an example of a bad lure:

Gyarados (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
Naughty Nature (+Atk, -SDef)
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Stone Edge
- Fire Blast

Gyarados with Fire Blast sounds pretty swell, since it now has the ability to 2HKO Skarmory and Ferrothorn, two of its biggest counters. On closer inspection, however, you can see that Fire Blast Gyarados has severe problems. First, just about any Water-type in OU can easily check or counter Gyarados without a more reliable STAB in Bounce or a more consistent Earthquke. The same situation occurs with grass-types that are not overtly weak to Fire Blast (ex. Trevnant, Celebi) or Dragons not weak to Stone Edge (Latios, Latias, Hydreigon). Second, you can achieve a 2HKO on Ferrothorn with Bounce with some prior damage and Skarmory with Waterfall with some prior damage at +1.

+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Gyarados Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 153-183 (45.8 - 54.79%) -- 98.05% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Gyarados Bounce vs. 252 HP / 48+ Def Ferrothorn: 200-238 (56.81 - 67.61%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
*needs Spikes for Ferrothorn accounting for Lefties on two turns attack but you get the point

The only way to OHKO either with Fire Blast with SR is to have max special attack with a positive nature. But at that point, you compromised the effectiveness of your physical moves to sweep with DD way too much. Overall your "power output" for Fire Blast of your physical moves will be too small.

Here, you sacrificed too much overall effectiveness for the sake of hitting two targets while specialized. In addition, your "lure" could have worn down the same counters just as well without a luring move in Fire Blast. You also lost some bulk in the process by choosing to go with a nature that decreases sp. def in order to preserve Fire Blast's power. To sum up, you just have a less effective Pokemon.
This is pretty much a great summary of bad lures.

Good Examples of Lures:


Pyroar @ Life Orb
Ability: Unnerve
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Fire Blast
- Will-O-Wisp
- Hyper Voice
- Hidden Power [Grass]

This Pyroar set is one I have a lot of experience with. The basis of this set is Will-O-Wisp, a move that is somewhat left out of the dust because people believe Pyroar should focus merely on attacking. However, Will-O-Wisp serves two important purposes: avoiding Sucker Punch and patching up its Defense. The latter is just an added benefit, but the former is extremely useful. Weakened Pyroar's tend to draw in priority, and Shiftry is very common. Attempting to revenge kill, they'll use Sucker Punch, only to find themselves burned by Will-O-Wisp, thus, crippling them. Hidden Power Grass is also very useful, as it nails Seismitoad:
  • 252 SpA Life Orb Pyroar Hidden Power Grass vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Seismitoad: 265-312 (64 - 75.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Seismitoad is quite a common switch-in to Pyroar, and this can be extremely useful. Pyroar doesn't sacrifice anything real, as its movepool is quite small, honestly. This set does its job: luring in its checks (Shiftry) and counters (Seismitoad), while it does not sacrifice anything to do so.

Posting Format:
Pokemon Sprite
Pokemon @ Item
Ability:
EVs:
-
-
-
-

About
Here are also some things to keep in mind:
  • Does this Pokemon have to sacrifice anything important?
  • Does this Pokemon consistently perform its role?
  • Does this Pokemon gain anything important when using this moveset?
  • Could this method be better aided through teammates?
  • Can this Pokemon be as generally effective as standard counterparts?

Conundrum of Effective Lures:


Now get out there and test some lures![/quote]
 
The only types of lures I really use are things for Rhydon / Seismitoad. IE: Energy Ball on random Pokemon. Here is one set that I found to be pretty fun, and lured in 2 different things!



Kadabra @ Focus Sash
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Encore
- Psychic
- Dazzling Gleam
- Energy Ball

This set lures in both Dark-types (Spiritomb and Liepard), as well as bulky Water-types. i used Energy Ball because my team was really Seismitoad weak, and people would often leave Seismitoad in on Kadabra (particularly if Focus Sash was broken), so I was able to get a kill on it. It also does ~50% to Spiritomb switch ins, which is basically enough to neuter it for the rest of the match if its not crotomb. And if it is crotomb? Just encore it into literally any attack then take it out with something else!

i wouldn't recommend this set for any team, there are lots of options for the 4th move that could be better for other teams. Like Shadow Ball to hit other Psychic-types, but Energy Ball worked really well on my team :)
 
Quoting from the XY NU New/Creative Movesets thread (not like i created this anyway, lol)
and now for something fun and actually useful...

Qwilfish @ Life Orb
Ability: Poison Point
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant / Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Explosion
- Waterfall / Aqua Jet
- Poison Jab

THE LURE IS HERE.
Qwilfish usually lures Bulky Water and Grass Types (think Seismitoad and Vileplume) who can most of the time come in and take Waterfalls or kill it while it sets up Spikes. This set aims to lure and kill them with a powerful Explosion to open a wave to Feraligatr and other Water Type Pokemon to sweep.
Adamant vs Jolly is preference mostly but i prefer Waterfall to Aqua Jet as i really like the flinch chance but Aqua Jet is strong after a boost thanks to Life Orb and its decent Attack Stat. I want to specify this should be used ONLY with Feraligatr and sweepers that appreciate Vileplume, Seismitoad, and Bulky water and Grass types gone as it can't sweep by itself.
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Qwilfish Explosion vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vileplume: 500-589 (141.2 - 166.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Qwilfish Explosion vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Seismitoad: 539-636 (130.1 - 153.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Qwilfish Explosion vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Tangela: 273-322 (81.7 - 96.4%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Qwilfish Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Tangela: 265-312 (79.3 - 93.4%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Qwilfish Explosion vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dragalge: 482-568 (144.3 - 170%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Qwilfish Poison Jab vs. 40 HP / 252 Def Lanturn: 331-390 (82.5 - 97.2%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Qwilfish Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Exeggutor: 484-569 (122.8 - 144.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Qwilfish Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Granbull: 390-460 (101.5 - 119.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Qwilfish Explosion vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Pelipper: 448-529 (138.2 - 163.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Qwilfish Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Pelipper: 216-255 (66.6 - 78.7%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Qwilfish Explosion vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Torterra: 434-512 (110.1 - 129.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
A lot of those spreads aren't even common but for them consider as the worst case scenario
Also i have a question: are Pokemon with type-resist berries considered lures? They kinda "lure" in their check and defeat them one on one. If so Colbur Berry on Mesprit is one i have had a lot of succes with as it lets it take a Knock Off from Shiftry to then OHKO back with Ice Beam or get Stealth Rock up another time if he has used defog
 

Punchshroom

FISHIOUS REND MEGA SHARPEDO
is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributor

Samurott @ Life Orb
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Rash Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Grass Knot
- Megahorn / Superpower

Part of what makes Samurott so dangerous, aside from the fact that it can do both physical and special sets effectively (although one can argue Feraligatr outdoes it physically), is that even if you do identify it as the special set, it has the benefit of both having access to some 120 BP physical moves as well as having the space to run it. This move can bop certain special walls for its teammates, or at least allow Samurott to muscle past Pokemon that can tank its special coverage. Jynx and Ludicolo usually switch into special Samurott with relative ease, but Megahorn easily skewers them apart, while also hammering Psychic-type special walls such as Grumpig, SpD Musharna, and Hypno. Superpower is another alternative for smashing the pink blobs, aka Audino and Lickilicky, while also hitting Ferroseed, although Superpower requires more support, such as Spikes / Stealth Rock and 80 Attack EVs, which allows Superpower to KO Lickilicky after it switches into Hydro Pump.
 


Shiftry @ Life Orb
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 60 Atk / 196 SAtk / 252 Spd
Rash Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Extrasensory
- Giga Drain
- Sucker Punch

This set turns Shiftry into a very versatile lure in NU. For starters, Nasty Plot isn't something you see commonly on the ladder or in tournaments. It can lure in so many things that would be able to wall the popular mixed attacking set. The key move here is Extrasensory. Pokemon like Vileplume will switch in on the expected Knock Off to try and get momentum based on the threat of a Poison move. But with this set, it easily gets a 2HKO with Extrasensory as it switches in, and obviously you could even Nasty Plot predicting the switch in. Clearly that will turn the 2HKO into an OHKO with the boost. Plus you still have Sucker Punch for Pokemon that will outspeed you. Knock Off in this case will be unnecessary. You have enough physical attack to take out things such as Dragalge with Sucker Punch, with or without prior damage with an Extrasensory. Fighting switch ins such as Gurdurr will also have an unfortunate change of plans. This Shiftry set is definitely a solid lure that's worth trying out.

(Set originally made and/or posted by Meeps)
 
Last edited:

CanadianWifier

Run Away With Me

Dragalge @ Dragon Fang
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spe
- Draco Meteor
- Sludge Wave
- Dragon Pulse
- Focus Blast

Reviving an old thread to talk about our latest suspect! The very common set early on was Specs, and when most people see this new monster, the first thought is to slap a Choice Specs on there and nuke stuff. However, by opting to run Dragon Fang, you can bluff Specs damage, and lure in Fairy Pokemon - specifically Slurpuff - another huge threat in the new meta. Generally, you click Draco Meteor and kill something, then Slurpuff comes in and tries to Belly Drum in your face as you're ''locked into'' a Dragon-type move.

-2 252+ SpA Adaptability Dragalge Sludge Wave vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Slurpuff: 240-284 (78.4 - 92.8%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

So, if they come in and try to Belly drum in your face, they will always die after Rocks + Belly Drum + Sitrus Berry. It's a very effective way to prevent Slurpuff from taking advantage of Dragalge, and turns Dragalge into an even-harder-to-stop pokemon :]
 

Pokedots

How should I live to be happy
is a Contributor Alumnus
Might as well try and revive this old thread with a new threat :)

Audino (F) @ Audinite
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 160 HP / 252 SpA / 96 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Dazzling Gleam
- Fire Blast
- Psychic

CroDino is one of the most terrifying and annoying win conditions in the current meta thanks to its monstrous bulk (allowing it to check virtually everything that can't hit it super effectively) and decent typing, and is incredibly hard to stop once it gets up one CM. However, it's stopped cold by very popular threats in the meta such a M-Steelix, Garbodor, and other poison- and steel-types. Offensive CM Audino is designed specifically to lure in these pokemon and smack them with a +1 super effective move, leaving the door open for its teammates to sweep. It can even sweep weakened teams by itself, though its lack of recovery greatly hinders this ability.

Good teammates are those who appreciate steels and poisons gone. SD Sneasel (which also benefits from Audino's ability to beat Yama), Scyther, Gurdurr, and Musharna, among others, appreciate its luring capabilities while being very good sweepers by themselves.

Overall, it's a fun lure that can catch the opponent off-guard while greatly supporting its teammates.
 
Mega-Steelix was giving my normal spam team big trouble so here is Choice specs Swellow. Since Heat wave is now legal with Boomburst this set is even more fun to use :]


Swellow @ Choice Specs
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Boomburst
- U-turn
- Air Slash
- Heat Wave

252 SpA Choice Specs Swellow Heat Wave vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Steelix: 162-192 (45.7 - 54.2%) -- 53.1% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Swellow Heat Wave vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mega Steelix: 130-154 (36.7 - 43.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

As you can see its better to catch the steelix on the switch before it mega evolves. With spikes, steelix gets weakened to the point where Zangoose's Close Combat or LO Kanga's Earthquake kills paving a possible sweep :]
 
Mega-Steelix was giving my normal spam team big trouble so here is Choice specs Swellow. Since Heat wave is now legal with Boomburst this set is even more fun to use :]


Swellow @ Choice Specs
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Boomburst
- U-turn
- Air Slash
- Heat Wave

252 SpA Choice Specs Swellow Heat Wave vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Steelix: 162-192 (45.7 - 54.2%) -- 53.1% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Swellow Heat Wave vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mega Steelix: 130-154 (36.7 - 43.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

As you can see its better to catch the steelix on the switch before it mega evolves. With spikes, steelix gets weakened to the point where Zangoose's Close Combat or LO Kanga's Earthquake kills paving a possible sweep :]
I've been using Specs Swellow like cancer (ask Dat Blast or Punchshroom ) since literally the dawn of ORAS. Great set, but never run Air Slash. There isn't a single pokemon in NU that is hit harder by Air Slash than Boomburst, it's literally never going to be clicked. Instead use Hidden Power Grass [Donner, Toad], Hidden Power Ground [Probopass], or even Defog, but most certainly not Air Slash.
 
I've been using Specs Swellow like cancer (ask Dat Blast or Punchshroom ) since literally the dawn of ORAS. Great set, but never run Air Slash. There isn't a single pokemon in NU that is hit harder by Air Slash than Boomburst, it's literally never going to be clicked. Instead use Hidden Power Grass [Donner, Toad], Hidden Power Ground [Probopass], or even Defog, but most certainly not Air Slash.
252 SpA Choice Specs Swellow Boomburst vs. 0 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Hariyama: 136-162 (31.7 - 37.7%) -- 90.8% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Swellow Air Slash vs. 0 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Hariyama: 150-176 (34.9 - 41%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

You're right that boomburst but is the better spammable move but Air slash hits Hariyama slightly harder. I don't wanna be locked into pitiful HP Grass or Defog because I am using spikes stack. But tailwind sounds like a good last move to click before you die.
 
252 SpA Choice Specs Swellow Boomburst vs. 0 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Hariyama: 136-162 (31.7 - 37.7%) -- 90.8% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Swellow Air Slash vs. 0 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Hariyama: 150-176 (34.9 - 41%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

You're right that boomburst but is the better spammable move but Air slash hits Hariyama slightly harder. I don't wanna be locked into pitiful HP Grass or Defog because I am using spikes stack. But tailwind sounds like a good last move to click before you die.
Considering Heat Wave really isn't doing jack shit to anything unless its SE i dont see your qualm with HP Grass since at least you beat Donner 1v1. Air Slash is ltierally never making a difference in a match, even against hariyama.
 

Steelix @ Steelixite
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Heavy Slam
- Earthquake
- Thunder Fang
- Stealth Rock

Mantine can always switch into Mega Steelix's STABs and even defog Mega Steelix's Stealth Rocks away. Well, now Mantine gets bopped by a Thunder Fang when it tries to defog your rocks away.

252+ Atk Mega Steelix Thunder Fang vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mantine: 272-324 (81.4 - 97%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
 
Sawk (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Knock Off
- Poison Jab
- Ice Punch

So this man is probably a lot better than in xy than in oras. Anyways, this is a pretty cool lure for kangaskhans trying to revenge kill you. Also you aren't really missing out on much because weezing isn't that common and sturdy is kind of meh.

252+ Atk Silk Scarf Kangaskhan Fake Out vs. -1 0 HP / 0 Def Sawk: 133-157 (45.7 - 53.9%) -- 44.1% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Kangaskhan Sucker Punch vs. -1 0 HP / 0 Def Sawk: 73-86 (25 - 29.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
 
Last edited:
Sawk (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Knock Off
- Poison Jab
- Ice Punch

So this man is probably a lot better than in xy than in oras. Anyways, this is a pretty cool lure for kangaskhans trying to revenge kill you. Also you aren't really missing out on much because weezing isn't that common and sturdy is kind of meh.

252+ Atk Silk Scarf Kangaskhan Fake Out vs. -1 0 HP / 0 Def Sawk: 133-157 (45.7 - 53.9%) -- 44.1% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Kangaskhan Sucker Punch vs. -1 0 HP / 0 Def Sawk: 73-86 (25 - 29.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
tbh though how common kangaskhan anymore. especially in the MegaLix meta it has become near non-existant. I would still say that in such a high paced meta with easy hazard control, Sturdy is definitely the top choice.
 
I would love to use the format but im using my ipad and just want to get this thing its sunshine and love right quick.
Samurott with rindo berry can lure and even counter a set up virizion. At + 2 a full hp samuritt will live a leaf blade with rindo and air ace can knock it down to red or even straight ohko the virizion. If it doesnt die then you can just aqua jet it down to 0. This set also sorta lures in a eggy which thanks to viriz and steelix have been running a couple of defensive sets in which a giga drain cant kill after rindo and sammurott can nail it with a mega horn which will kill it off. The last move is waterfall, i have not messed with ev's so as of now it is all hp all attack adamant.
 
Yay revivial.

323.gif
didn't have a sprite for mega :(
Camerupt-Mega @ Cameruptite
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 96 HP / 160 Atk / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Rock Slide
- HP Grass / Stealth Rock / Will-O-Wisp

This Camerupt set is wonderful because it destroys Mantine, a mon who is normally one of the most solid answers to M-Camerupt in the tier. The EVs guarantee the OHKO on standard specially defensive Mantine with Rock Slide after it takes Stealth Rock damage, letting you obliterate it as it tries to switch in. Fire Blast and Earth Power are the two powerful STABs, while the last slot is up to you on what utility you want Camerupt or if you want an 87.5% chance to OHKO defensive Seismitoad after rocks. Here are some calcs:

160 Atk Sheer Force Mega Camerupt Rock Slide vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Mantine: 250-296 (75 - 88.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ SpA Mega Camerupt Hidden Power Grass vs. 200 HP / 56 SpD Seismitoad: 368-436 (91.7 - 108.7%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top