DP Wailord

[Jimbo]

I couldn't help but noticing Wailord's analysis is somewhat sparse. Good sets, but very little detail, so I'm fixing it up in a revamp. It didn't really get any good Platinum moves, so I'm still posting it here.

I don't have all the sets done since I'd I'm not 100% sure and what people'd want in there. I was thinking the scarfer (obviously, it's the best set), Curse, CB, and ResTalk.

I have the Scarf set pretty much done, just a few notes at the bottom.

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/wailord

[SET]
name: Choice Scarf
move 1: Water Spout
move 2: Hydro Pump / Surf
move 3: Selfdestruct
move 4: Ice Beam / Hidden Power Grass / Hidden Power Electric
item: Choice Scarf
ability: Water Veil
nature: Naive
evs: 28 Atk / 252 SpA / 228 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>This moveset employs Choice Scarf to boost Wailord's mediocre Speed so it can fire off full powered Water Spouts before getting hit, playing like a weaker Kyogre. It can do major damage to opposing teams, and it also requires no set up.</p>

<p>Water Spout is the main attraction of this set. Boasting 225 base power while at full health, it can be very damaging. Water Spout OHKOes several sweepers, such as Froslass, Gengar, and Absol. Hydro Pump (or Surf for accuracy) allows Wailord to attempt a sweep while at low HP. After Wailord has served its purpose, you can use Selfdestruct, hopefully taking out the opponent in the process. The final moveslot serves to compliment Wailord's type coverage. Hidden Power Grass is preferred in UU, for hitting the many Ground, Water, and Rock-types, while Hidden Power Electric is usually recommended in OU. Ice Beam OHKOes the OU dragons, which you outspeed as long as they're not scarfed.</p>

<p>228 Speed EVs allow Wailord to outspeed positive nature base 110 Speed Pokemon with the Choice Scarf. It should also be noted that Wailord resists Aqua Jet, Ice Shard, and Bullet Punch, all common priority moves. Max Special Attack EVs assist in sweeping, while the Attack EVs boost Selfdestruct's power.</p>

[SET]
name: SpecsLord
move 1: Water Spout
move 2: Ice Beam
move 3: Hidden Power Electric
move 4: Surf / Selfdestruct
item: Choice Specs
ability: Water Veil
nature: Quiet
evs: 128 Def / 252 SpA / 128 SpD
ivs: 2 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Another set that mimics the legendary Kyogre, Choice Specs Wailord. Much like Kyogre, SpecsLord can rip apart unprepared teams not expecting an incredibly powerful Water Spout. However, Choice Specs Wailord's sweeping potential is limited by its rather average base 60 Speed. To help compensate for this, SpecsLord is best used in conjunction with Trick Room support.</p>

<p>Very little switches safely into a STAB, base 150 power Water Spout working off of a 459 Special Attack stat in UU, even dedicated Special walls such as Grumpig and Hypno are faced with a 2HKO. Even those that resist Water Spout can be 2HKOed often with Stealth Rock on the field, one notable example being that 355 HP / 236 SpD Meganium is 2HKO'd 71% of the time with Stealth Rock damage. Ice Beam compliments this set and allows for more effective means of disposing of Grass-type Pokemon and Altaria. Hidden Power Electric covers opposing Water Pokemon, in particular Mantine who walls the entire set otherwise with Water Absorb and its high Special Defense. The reason Hidden Power Electric is now the superior option as opposed to Hidden Power Grass is that Water Spout is going to 2HKO Gastrodon anyway and Quagsire can be brought down with Ice Beam. Surf is an option in the final slot as a secondary STAB, due to Water Spout's low PP. It is also the better option when Wailord is low on HP. Selfdestruct is also usable but Surf is likely the better choice. Hydro Pump can be used over Surf as well for the higher base power, but is less necessary then on the Choice Scarf set due to Choice Specs power boost.</p>

<p>Maximum Special Attack is rather obvious and the remaining EVs were distributed to maximize Wailord's overall defenses. Minimum Speed is used to best capitalize on the effects of Trick Room. If you opt to use Selfdestruct, investing a small amount in Attack wouldn't be a terrible idea.</p>

[SET]
name: Sleep Talk
move 1: Rest
move 2: Sleep Talk
move 3: Water Spout / Surf / Hydro Pump
move 4: Ice Beam / Hidden Power Electric / Hidden Power Grass
item: Leftovers
ability: Water Veil
nature: Bold
evs: 6 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Wailord's gigantic HP stat make it very bulky, however, without a reliable form of recovery, Wailord can only last so long. With Rest, Wailord can last much longer, absorbing status while also maintaining good coverage and relatively high power. As long as Wailord is kept away from STAB Electric or Grass-type attacks, it will last a long time. Wailord is unique in that, after using Rest, Water Spout will be at full power once again. However, be aware that Wailord is on the slower side, so it could take a hit before striking with a full power Water Spout. Sleep Talk also remedies Water Spout and Hydro Pump's low PP. If you would like to forgoe power for longevity and accuracy, Surf is a good option.</p>

<p>The EVs for this set are simple: Make Wailord as bulky as possible. With Wailord's low defenses and high HP, maximizing its Defense and Special Defense is a better option than using HP EVs. If you would rather have Wailord be more specially defensive, Calm is a fine option as the nature.</p>

[SET]
name: Curse
move 1: Curse
move 2: Waterfall
move 3: Return
move 4: Rest / Avalanche / Selfdestruct
item: Leftovers
ability: Water Veil
nature: Careful
evs: 60 HP / 196 Def / 252 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Playing similarly to CursePert, this set can do a lot of damage with a bit of set up. However, it's not as immediately damaging as the Choice Scarf or Choice Specs sets. Boost Wailord's potent Attack and paltry Defense stats, then attack or Rest off any damage you may have taken.</p>

<p>Waterfall provides a powerful STAB move, while Return compliments Waterfall's coverage (nothing resists Return and Waterfall in UU except Shedinja). Avalanche further boosts coverage, hitting the many Grass and Flying-types in UU for super effective damage. Selfdestruct is a powerful finishing move, especially after a Curse or two.</p>

<p>The EVs maximize Wailord's defenses, giving it as much longevity as possible. 60 HP EVs give Wailord optimal Leftovers recovery. Also, Jolly Hitmonlee's Close Combat will never 2HKO Wailord after one Curse. This is important because Wailord will then be able to PP Stall Hitmonlee out of Close Combats (with Rest) after only one Curse.</p>

[SET]
name: Curse + Sleep Talk
move 1: Waterfall
move 2: Curse
move 3: Rest
move 4: Sleep Talk
item: Leftovers
ability: Water Veil
nature: Careful
evs: 60 HP / 196 Def / 252 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>A combination of the previous two sets, this also plays similarly to Swampert. This set can obtain almost infinite longevity after eliminating the opponent's Grass and Electric-types. Boost Wailord's Attack and Defense while shrugging off opposing attacks with Rest. This set has a difficult time getting past Grass-types, or Pokemon with Water Absorb, such as Lapras and Poliwrath.</p>

<p>EVs are identical to the previous set; they're distributed to make Wailord as bulky as possible.</p>

[SET]
name: Choice Band
move 1: Waterfall
move 2: Return / Double-Edge
move 3: Earthquake / Avalanche
move 4: Selfdestruct / Avalanche
item: Choice Band
ability: Water Veil
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 Atk / 128 Def / 128 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Reaching 459 Attack with Choice Band, this Wailord set can do a lot of damage. Waterfall is an obvious STAB move; it 2HKOes Grumpig, Hypno, and Gastrodon (with Stealth Rock damage on the latter), all of which may switch into Wailord hoping to shrug off a Water Spout. Return and Double-Edge compliment Waterfall's coverage, the choice on which to use is left to personal preference. Earthquake further boosts coverage, hitting the many Ground, Rock, and Steel-types of UU. Avalanche is another good choice, hitting Pokemon such as Meganium and Venusaur for super effective damage. Selfdestruct, coming off for 459 Attack, is extremely potent, and is a good choice for the final move slot.</p>

<p>EVs are rather simple; maximize Wailord's Attack while also making it bulky.</p>

[Other Options]
<p>Body Slam is an OK option on physical sets if you're going for paralysis. Using Rollout in conjunction with Curse can be powerful too. Wailord has Amnesia and Toxic to work with as well. Wailord can force switches with Roar, but it does not have the longevity of Suicune or Swampert to fully utilize it. Tickle also works alright if you don't think you'll be able to stay in to Curse.</p>

[EVs]
<p>On offensive sets, maxing out the attacking stat is usually the best option. The Choice Scarf set should be EVed to outspeed base 110 Speed Pokemon (with neutral natures), such as Jumpluff. On sets that aren't based on Speed, making Wailord as defensive as possible is the best choice. Because of Wailord's meagre defenses and high HP, distributing EVs to the former is always a better option than alotting them to the latter.</p>

[Opinion]
<p>Despite Wailord's wretched defenses, its enormous HP allows it to still be relatively bulky. While it may not be as great a bulky water as Vaporeon or Suicune, it's still pretty original. Wailord differentiates itself from other bulky waters because of its fantastic movepool allowing him to unique access to moves such as Water Spout and Selfdestruct.</p>

[Counters]
<p>Special Sets: There isn't much that can truly counter the Choice Specs set unless you predict around it. The Choice Scarf set is easier to counter than the Choice Specs set, but it is still somewhat difficult. Resistance to Water Spout is a must for any counter to special sets. Politoed is the best overall counter. At worst it'll take 43% from Choice Specs Hidden Power Electric.</p>

<p>Mantine walls any special set that lacks Hidden Power Electric. Meganium does a good job, but Ice Beam and Choice Specs Water Spout will both do massive daamge (Choice Specs Water Spout 2HKOes). Meganium can retaliate with STAB Grass Knot or Energy Ball and/or Leech Seed Wailord's massive HP. Lapras also does a good job; Water Absorb and 4x resistance to Ice Beam. It can take Hidden Power Electric and Grass relatively well, and has Thunderbolt to strike back.</p>

<p>Physical Sets: Without the sheer power of Water Spout, physical sets are much easier to counter. Cloyster takes physical sets without Curse, but it will struggle to stike back without Explosion or Hidden Power Electric/Grass. Leafeon can switch in on anything except Avalanche and threatens Wailord with STAB Leaf Blade. Weezing threatens it with Thunderbolt, and also has Haze to stop Cursing sets.</p>

 

[Caelum]

You messed up the link to the original analysis, I think you wanted http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/wailord

As always, nice work so far. I'm glad you posted for a bit of feedback before going to the trouble of writing the whole thing up since you are usually so thorough it would be a shame to waste your time like that if a set was going to be changed / scrapped.

I'm mainly posting to say that I think it's viable to split the Curse set into 2 sets. One with Curse / Waterfall / Avalanche / Earthquake and one with Curse / Rest / STalk / Waterfall (i.e. UU swampy).

If you want any help writing something just hit me up via PM. :D

 

[Colonel M]

Well, I might as well add a few things. Good job first off.

All three Choice Sets should be added. Never understood why Choice Specs was written off quickly, especially with access to Surf, Hydro Pump, Ice Beam, Selfdestruct, and Hidden Power. I mean... is it that bad?

Agreeing about the "UU Swampert" idea. High HP is a great advantage for the set, and Curse boosting its Defense is even better. I'd like to see those damage calculations if possible for Choice Scarf Wailord at the very least.

 

[kylecat]

I think you should mention the importance of having a spinner on this set because residual damage will wear down water spouts power. Plus a choice item usually means the pokemon will have to switch out a lot (which means you'll take a lot more damage).

 

[Jimbo]

Ooh forgot to post back here. I've continued working on this yesterday with a lot of Caelum's help (thanks!) Hopefully I'll be able to make a good update later on tonight.

@Colonel M- Yea, SpecsLord will definitely be included

@kyle- I feel like that's a bit redudant... Everyone should know Water Spout is affected by HP lose, thus entry hazards.

 

[Jimbo]

Sorry for the double post, just wanted to say I updated with a SpecsLord set by caelum, and the sleep talk set. I'm also pretty sure I finished the Scarf set. I'll keep working to see if I can get another set up tonight. Finally have some time to write. :)


Edit- Just finished the first Curse set, and updated w/ it. Hopefully it's alright, I didn't spend as much time tweaking it before posting (but it looked OK).

 

[Colloquy]

[SET]
name: Choice Scarf
move 1: Water Spout
move 2: Hydro Pump / Surf
move 3: Selfdestruct
move 4: Ice Beam / Hidden Power Grass / Hidden Power Electric
item: Choice Scarf
ability: Water Veil
nature: Naive
evs: 28 Atk / 252 SpA / 228 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>This moveset employs Choice Scarf to boost Wailord's mediocre Speed so it can fire off fully powered Water Spouts before getting hit, playing much like a weaker Kyogre. Choice Scarf is the best option for Wailord in OU play (remove). It can do major damage to opposing teams, and it also requires no set up.</p>

<p>Water Spout is the main attraction of this set. Boasting 225 base power while at full health, it can be devastating. Water Spout OHKO(no e)s several fast sweepers, such as Fro(take out an s)slass, Gengar, and Absol. (remove sentence about OHKOing walls) Hydro Pump (or Surf for accuracy) allows Wailord to attempt a sweep while at low HP, after Water Spouts. After Wailord has served its purpose, you can use Selfdestruct, hopefully taking out the opponent in the process. The final moveslot serves to complement Wailord's type coverage. Hidden Power Grass is preferred in UU, for hitting the many Ground, Water, and Rock-types, while Hidden Power Electric is recommended in OU. Ice Beam OHKO(no e)s Salamence and Dragonite, which you outspeed as long as they're not scarfed.</p>

<p>228 Speed EVs allow Wailord to outspeed positive nature base 110 Pokemon with the Choice Scarf. It should also be noted that Wailord resists Aqua Jet, Ice Shard, and Bullet Punch, all common priority moves, so that it can't be picked off before it can strike. Max Special Attack (remove EVs) assists in sweeping, while the Attack EVs boost Selfdestruct's power.</p>

I assume you weren't quite done with the rest.

 

[Jimbo]

Made most of the edits, however, I did disagree with some of them.

I'm almost sure it is "OHKOes," as that's how I've seen it (Stellar uses it, I think he was the one who told me about the e). Also, removing "EVs" sort of infers Wailord being Modest (well to me it does), if someone else comments on it I'll be happy to remove the "EVs." And "so it can't be picked off before striking" seems a bit redudant to me, as most people reading the analyses know what priority moves do (Again though I'll be sure to edit it in if someone else feels otherwise?)

Made the other edits though, thanks a lot! While I haven't looked over the other sets extensively, feel free to edit them. I'm looking over them now too :)

 

[Colloquy]

Yeah, I was a bit unsure of the OHKOes and EVs as well.

I was planning on editing the others later.

 

[Jimbo]

OK, I had a good amount of time this morning, so I wrote up everything else. I believe I'm done writing, now to proofread!

It may not be extremely polished, as I didn't take a week tweaking it ;) Thanks in advance to any/all edits.

 

[User 12783]

Sleep Talk

<p>Wailord's gigantic HP stat make it very bulky, however without a reliable form of recovery, Wailord can only last so long. With Rest, Wailord can last much longer, absorbing status while also maintaining good coverage and relatively high power. As long as Wailord is kept away from STAB Electric or Grass-type attacks, it will last a long time.</p>

<p>EVs for this set are simple: make Wailord as defensive as possible. With Wailord's low defenses and high HP, maximizing its Defense and Special Defense is a better option than using HP EVs. If you would rather have Wailord be more specially defensive, Calm is a fine option as the nature.</p>

Curse

<p>Playing similarly to CursePert, this set can do a lot of damage with a bit of set up. However, this set cannot perform immediate damage such as the Choice Scarf or Choice Specs sets. Boost Wailord's potent Attack and paltry Defense stats, then attack or Rest off any damage you may have taken.</p>

<p>Waterfall provides a powerful STAB move, while Return compliments Waterfall's coverage (nothing resists Return and Waterfall in UU except Shedinja). Avalanche further boosts coverage, hitting the many Grass and Flying-types in UU for super effective damage. Selfdestruct is a powerful finishing move, especially after a Curse or two.</p>

<p>The EVs maximize Wailord's defenses, giving it as much longevity as possible. 60 HP EVs give Wailord optimal Leftovers recovery. Also, Jolly Hitmonlee's Close Combat will never 2HKO Wailord after one Curse. This is important because Wailord will then be able to PP Stall Hitmonlee out of Close Combats (with Rest) after only one Curse.</p>

Curse + Sleep Talk

<p>A combination of the previous two sets, this also plays similarly to Swampert. This set can obtain almost infinite longevity after eliminating the opponent's Grass and Electric-types. Boost Wailord's Attack and Defense while shrugging off opposing attacks with Rest. This set has a difficult time getting past Grass-types, or Pokemon with Water Absorb, such as Lapras and Poliwrath.</p>

<p>EVs are identical to the previous set; they're distributed to make Wailord as bulky as possible.<p>

Choice Band

<p>Reaching 459 Attack with Choice Band, this Wailord set can do a lot of damage. Waterfall is an obvious STAB move; it 2HKOes Grumpig, Hypno, and Gastrodon (with Stealth Rock damage on the latter), all of which may switch into Wailord hoping to shrug off a Water Spout. Return and Double-Edge compliment Waterfall's coverage, the choice on which to use is left to personal preference. Earthquake further boosts coverage, hitting many Ground, Rock, and Steel-types of UU. Avalanche is another good choice, hitting Pokemon such as Meganium and Venusaur for super effective damage. Selfdestruct, coming off for 459 Attack, is extremely powerful, and is a good choice for the final move slot.</p>

<p>EVs are rather simple; maximize Wailord's Attack while also making it bulky.</p>

The EVs / Counters / Opinion / Other Options

[Other Options]
<p>Body Slam is an OK option on physical sets if you're going for paralysis. Using Rollout in conjunction with Curse can be powerful too. Wailord has Amnesia and Toxic to work with as well. Tickle also works well if you don't think you'll be able to stay in to Curse.</p>

[EVs]
<p>On offensive sets, maxing out the attacking stat/s is usually the best option. The Choice Scarf set should be EVed to outspeed base 110 Speed Pokemon (with neutral natures), such as Jumpluff. On sets that aren't based on Speed, making Wailord as defensive as possible is the best choice.</p>

[Opinion]
<p>Despite Wailord's wretched defenses, its enormous HP allows it to still be relatively bulky. While it may not be as great a bulky water as Vaporeon or Suicune, it still has some nice qualities, mainly Water Spout.</p>

[Counters]
<p>Special Sets: There isn't much that can truly counter the Choice Specs set unless you predict around it. The Choice Scarf set is easier to counter than the Choice Specs set, but it is still somewhat difficult. Resistance to Water Spout is a must for any counter to special sets. Politoed is the best overall counter. At worst it'll take 43% from Choice Specs Hidden Power Electric.</p>

<p>Mantine walls any special set that lacks Hidden Power Electric. Meganium does a good job, but Ice Beam and Choice Specs Water Spout will both do massive daamge (Choice Specs Water Spout 2HKOes). Meganium can retaliate with STAB Grass Knot, Energy Ball and/or Leech Seed Wailord's massive HP. Lapras also does a good job; Water Absorb and 4x resistance to Ice Beam. It can take Hidden Power Electric and Grass relatively well, and has Thunderbolt to strike back.</p>

<p>Physical Sets: Without the sheer power of Water Spout, physical sets are much easier to counter. Cloyster takes physical sets without Curse, but it will struggle to stike back without Explosion or Hidden Power Electric/Grass. Leafeon can switch in on anything except Avalanche and threaten Wailord with STAB Leaf Blade. Weezing threatens it with Thunderbolt, and also has Haze to stop Cursing sets.</p>

 

[Jimbo]

Done editing, thanks much Sikh :)

 

[Imran]

EVs for this set are simple: Make Wailord

Should be a comma IIRC. "Defensive also sounds a little awkward, maybe "bulky" would be a better word.

The ResTalk set seems a little under commented too. it would be nice to know why I would use it over other common UU ResTalkers. I just think that if people are going to re-vamp, they should comment more on sets that have shorter or less elaborative set comments. The same also applies to the CurseTalk and Band sets, maybe some damage calculations or just elaborate more on the set. Maybe test them out and note down things you notice, crucial KOs etc...

No mention of Roar in other options? Feels like OO could be elaborated on more too. maybe mention what you would want to be using the selected moves against.

In Fact OO, EVs and, Opinion is still a little "empty" I really do feel this isnt too much of a re-vamp as you haven't really added that much.

 

[Jimbo]

Yea. I'm not totally done, I would've edited a lot more in private, but I felt it'd be in bad taste to leave the thread sitting. I don't think damage calcs had to be in the table. In the CB Set I mentioned how Waterfall 2HKOes some common special walls for example.

I think I did a lot a lot personally, you have seen current analysis right? The CB set is ~2 sentences.

That said, I'm going to be adding stuff throughout the day.

 

[User 12783]

Have you seen the current one? This a great rendition of the previous. Instead of giving suggestions and criticism, why don't work on your own revamps? I'm pretty sure what you said can apply there as well. Roar is not mentioned in Other Options because of the fact Wailord cannot utilize it like others in the same tier. As for the RestTalk set, its pretty obvious why you would use it just based on common sense and previous knowledge. With Rest, you get your health back to 100%, AKA a reload for Water Spout, it is the centerfold of Kyogre's strength and why it is a great stall wrecker.

As for the non-set facts such Other Options and EVs, they are suppose to be straight to the point. The point is to educate the reader and convince him to use the Pokemon and point out the viable sets not to write a saga and bore him to death.

 

[Imran]

It is not for us to assume that people know what they are talking about. It is up to us to explain every little deatil about each set. Wailord can carry roar off well, it may not be the best user of it, but its bulk sure does make it at least viable. Secondly saying "the previous analysis was way shitter" is no excuse really. no matter how shit the analysis was before we expect revamps to all be of the same quality. I understand you have improved it I am simply questioning whether it has improved enough.

Thirdly, Jimbo I can accept that you haven't quite finished it yest, but it might be worth adding bits as and when you finish them.

As a matter of fact Sikh I recently bumped my two re-vamps to ensure that they have improved and check i did it before you posted that. I'm not saying write a saga, I'm saying write more in depth, like how you want to EV Wailord in Defensive stats more simply because of its HUGE Base HP. As your defensive ability will improve more that way.

 

[Jimbo]

I actually don't believe we are supposed to explain every little thing because it'd make the analyses somewhat redudant and assinine (I've actually seen some higher ups say this I'm not just pulling it out of thin air). When sets aren't very complicated you don't have to beat them to death with detail (which is probably why the previous analysis was so short, none of the sets were too complicated).

I'm going out now, I'll add a bit more later though, thanks for your input.

 

[Caelum]

As usual, excellent stuff. Some suggestions in bold.

<p>This moveset employs Choice Scarf to boost Wailord's mediocre Speed so it can fire off fullpowered Water Spouts before getting hit, playing like a weaker Kyogre. It can do major damage to opposing teams, and it also requires no set up.</p>

full > fully

<p>228 Speed EVs allow Wailord to outspeed positive nature base 110 Speed Pokemon with the Choice Scarf. It should also be noted that Wailord resists Aqua Jet, Ice Shard, and Bullet Punch, all common priority moves. Max Special Attack EVs assist in sweeping, while the Attack EVs boost Selfdestruct's power.</p>

Added in Speed

<p>Another set that mimics the legendary Kyogre, Choice Specs Wailord. Much like Kyogre, SpecsLord can rip apart unprepared teams not expecting an incredibly powerful Water Spout. However, Choice Specs Wailord's sweeping potential is limited by its rather average base 60 Speed. To help compensate for this, SpecsLord is best used in conjunction with Trick Room support.</p>

sweeping > sweeper

<p>Very little switches safely into a STAB, base 150 power Water Spout working off of a 459 Special Attack stat in UU, even dedicated Special walls such as Grumpig and Hypno are faced with a 2HKO. Even those that resist Water Spout can be 2HKOed often with Stealth Rock on the field, one notable example being that 355 HP / 236 SpD Meganium is 2HKO'd 71% of the time with Stealth Rock damage. Ice Beam compliments this set and allows for more effective means of disposing of Grass-type Pokemon and Altaria. Hidden Power Electric covers opposing Water Pokemon, in particular Mantine who walls the entire set otherwise with Water Absorb and its high Special Defense. The reason Hidden Power Electric is now the superior option as opposed to Hidden Power Grass is that Water Spout is going to 2HKO Gastrodon anyway and Quagsire can be brought down by Ice Beam. Surf is an option in the final slot as a secondary STAB, due to Water Spout's low PP. It is also the better option when Wailord is low on HP. Selfdestruct is also usable but Surf is likely the better choice. Hydro Pump can be used over Surf as well for the higher base power, but is less necessary then on the Choice Scarf set due to Choice Specs power boost.</p>

I reworded a few things here.

Anyway, that is all I caught jimbo. Again, nice work. I think this is done for the most part. I'd leave this up for about 5-6 more days, see if any comments come by and then you can load it to SCMS jimbo ^_^.

 

[Jimbo]

Ok, thanks Caelum, changes made. Hope I don't mess up uploading this xD

I'll wait for more comments though definitely.

 

[Imran]

Congrats on the badge Jimbo :D

I'm not here to flame. I accept that some of what I said earlier was wrong, but I do still feel that the EVs section needs an explaination of why pumping EVs into Wailords Defense instead of it's HP makes it bulkier.

 

[Jimbo]

Ok added in a blurb on the EVs and uploaded, hope I didn't mess anything up .-.

So I guess this can be moved to the archive?

 

[darkie]

will do