DP Spiritomb

[Aldaron]

Posting a peer edit topic for Chrisisme as he cannot currently make topics.

 

[cim]

Alright. I think this is one of the most common Spiritomb sets. It's been seen on numerous stall teams (most notably Obi's stall team) and I think it's definitely something that needs to be in any Spiritomb analysis.

[SET]
name: Rest / Sleep Talk
move 1: Shadow Ball
move 2: Hidden Power Fighting / Will-o-wisp
move 3: Rest
move 4: Sleep Talk
item: Leftovers
nature: Calm
evs: 252 HP / 96 Def / 160 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Rest and Sleep Talk together work excellently on Spiritomb. With this set, he can absorb Gengar Hypnosis, making him a near-perfect switch-in to any Gengar. The recovery granted to him by Rest allows him to be an even more efficient counter to Gengar, Azelf, Lucario, and Deoxys-S. The aforementioned recovery allows him to stick around for much longer, serving as a useful blocker of Rapid Spin for a team.</p>

<p>Shadow Ball and Hidden Power Fighting are the primary options on this set, as together they are unresisted and allow for Super-Effective hits on most of the threats that Spiritomb seeks to counter. Hidden Power Fighting is what makes Spiritomb one of the best Lucario switch-ins, as he can take any one attack boosted by a Swords Dance or any two attacks boosted by Choice Specs. Another option is to run Will-o-wisp; Spiritomb still maintains the ability to hit Gengar, Azelf, and Deoxys-S Super Effectively and lets Spiritomb burn Lucario and the somewhat common Rapid Spinning Donphan. Shadow Ball / HP Fighting is more reliable, though, as nothing resists both and there are no accuracy issues to worry about.</p>

<p>The EVs are tailored to optimally counter Gengar. With this spread, Gengar's unboosted Shadow Ball is a 4HKO. This allows Spiritomb to beat Hypnosis / Substitute Gengar, as otherwise Gengar can kill Spiritomb before the Rest / Sleep Talk cycle ends, with Substitute guarding against the 33% chance of Shadow Ball being picked. The rest of the EVs are placed in Defense to better weather physical hits. If you want a bit more Defense 252 HP / 140 Def / 116 SpD and a Calm nature allow Spiritomb to survive any Salamence Draco Meteor.</p>

 

[Aldaron]

I'd like to emphasize that I support making the HP Fighting / Will-o-wisp set its own set and not just slashes to the Calm Mind Rest Sleep Talk set because they play slightly differently, they beat different opponents and they run different EV spreads.

Most significantly is that I can keep this Spiritomb in against Salamence, and I am not afraid of Lucario / Tyranitar setting up on me. All three Pokemon give the other set significant issues.

 

[kd24]

I dont want to blow my own horn or sound obnoxious at all but I did have this already posted before: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1174677&postcount=1

I'm glad though that its getting more attention. I will try and help later.

I also like the addition of will-o-wisp which definitely makes it better.

 

[umbarsc]

Will-O-Wisp really should be paired with Dark Pulse if you're using it over Hidden Power Fighting. Though Heracross and Machamp are better dealt with by Shadow Ball, the other Fighting-types (Lucario mainly, the UU fighting-types, Thick Fat Hariyama) can be burned which makes Dark Pulse a superior choice.

- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Shadow Ball / Dark Pulse
- Hidden Power Fighting / Will-O-Wisp

For the EVs, I think you should find a different SpD benchmark. Even if you do live through a Salamence Draco Meteor, the next one will kill you while you can't do much back (besides Burning the mixed attacker). And if Stealth Rocks are up you'll be dead anyways. Switching into Salamence is not really a smart idea with this set anyways, so you should consider tailoring the EVs to specifically help with Azelf/Gengar, then dump the rest in Def.

 

[cim]

I think enough to ensure Timid unboosted (SubGar) Shadow Ball is a 4HKO is a good idea, since you'll only be hitting 1/3 with Sleep Talk you'll need to stick around for awhile. I'll work on the spread.

I was thinking about DP, but people in Smogon Shoddy shot me down for some reason; I forget why.

The 2HKO on Lucario really isn't important because of Life Orb recoil.

 

[jrrrrrrr]

I'm surprised that this isn't already in the analysis, especially after Obi popularized it and ESPECIALLY after kd24 posted it lol.

<p>Shadow Ball and Hidden Power Fighting are the primary options on this set, as together they are unresisted and allow for Super-Effective hits on most of the threats that Spiritomb seeks to counter. Hidden Power Fighting is what makes Spiritomb the one of the best Lucario switch-ins, as he can take any one attack boosted by a Swords Dance or any two attacks boosted by Choice Specs. Another option is to run Will-o-wisp;

Other than that it looks good to me.


I'll add it in a day or so if nobody has any problems.

 

[cim]

252 HP / 96 Def / 160 SDef; Calm guarantees that a Timid Gengar Shadow Ball not boosted by Life Orb is a 4HKO. Important for beating those damn Sub / Hypnosis Gengars. Should I edit it in?

 

[jrrrrrrr]

Yes. It should probably be the main EV spread. Add a section in describing your original EV spread if you want since it seems viable (although I can't say which one is better since I haven't used your new spread).

 

[Caelum]

For the more physically defensive spread in the set comment you may want to mention that for some stall teams that can be more useful since you may need Spiritomb to take some powerful EQs from Donphan as you are preventing it's Rapid Spin. Granted Donphan is rare now but I think you should give him a mention on a set that is more physically oriented.

 

[Reno]

Wouldn't Hidden Power Ground be an option? It allows it to counter Heatran more efficiently, whilst still hitting Lucario.

 

[cim]

Heatran isn't what Spiritomb aims to counter; he's not immune or resistant to any of his attacks and is promptly destroyed by Specs variants. Also, Ghost / Ground misses out on several Pokémon coverage wise; Normal / Flyers off the top of my head.

 

[wDro]

Especially how much damage does Gengar's shadow ball do to Spiritomb? The SpD drop from shadow ball can be quite annoying sometimes.

 

[Ryfle]

Especially how much damage does Gengar's shadow ball do to Spiritomb? The SpD drop from shadow ball can be quite annoying sometimes.

252 HP / 96 Def / 160 SDef; Calm guarantees that a Timid Gengar Shadow Ball not boosted by Life Orb is a 4HKO. Important for beating those damn Sub / Hypnosis Gengars. Should I edit it in?

This set should be added into the analysis it's great. I found myself using it more of a sweeper though W-o-W is perfect for cleaning up late game. Not to mention it's the best Gengar counter out there.

 

[Aeroblacktyl]

question, doesn't a SD LO lucario 2hko a spiritomb while a spiritomb cannot ohko a lucario after the LO 10%?

 

[Caelum]

question, doesn't a SD LO lucario 2hko a spiritomb while a spiritomb cannot ohko a lucario after the LO 10%?

This is true. It helps if it has the Close Combat defense drop though, then you can usually beat it but generally unless Lucario has residual damage you'll need Will-O-Wisp to beat it.

 

[cim]

I forget exactly how it works, but at least with the old spread Spiritomb comes out on top more often than not. Maybe they have to attack on the switch or something.

 

[Cynthia]

I would consider putting the Defensive EV's into Special Attack, mainly because a non-EV'd Shadow Ball KO's very little. It sucks to only 2HKO Gengar back, even if you can survive its hits.

 

[gec]

I think Dark Pulse should be an option over Shadow Ball, purely because someone could theoretically switch between a normal type and ghost type to wall you. I don't know if that's valid, but yeah. I remember Obi used Dark Pulse > Shadow Ball for this reason.

 

[User 12783]

I have to back Giant Enemy Crab on this since it's primary move not even being able to hit a Normal type at all would suck ass, and he is right when he says Obi used it because of this reason, I've seen Jabba and husk use it for this reason alone as well.

Also Asma, this isn't the best Gengar, but one of the best, as with a SpD drop this set is promptly 2HKO'd. Blissey counters all the sets other than the SubPuncher way better, and Gengar can only 2HKO, and if the user was a more competent player he would Ice Beam once to break the Sub then just keep using it as the Gengar wastes Subs or Focus Punches, as it will break or make the move null and void.

 

[cim]

I think Dark Pulse should be an option over Shadow Ball, purely because someone could theoretically switch between a normal type and ghost type to wall you. I don't know if that's valid, but yeah. I remember Obi used Dark Pulse > Shadow Ball for this reason.

Obi's team used Shadow Ball. I have his team saved on my computer.

The reason Dark Pulse isn't listed is because Shadow Ball's side effect is much better, plus you can simply predict that switch and attack with the correct move / switch to another Pokémon. Oh, that and Heracross comes in completely for free when with Shadow Ball at least he does something.

 

[User 12783]

But you can't stop it anyways, so that's the same thing actually >.>

 

[Goodbar]

The most common thing you have to worry about is blissey, which dark pulse or hp fighting does lol damage to. Snorlax and Togekiss are pretty tough too where it shouldn't make a difference, so might as well go for the move with the better side effect and better coverage on heracross

 

[cim]

Just because you can't counter it isn't an excuse to give it competely free switch-ins... At least Heracross will be taking a decent amount of damage each time it comes in on Spiritomb that way.

Not to mention the 20% Special fall.

 

[Aldaron]

this post is for jrrrrrrr's and Aldaron's purposes...

don't delete set needs to be on site and there needs to be more discussion rearding this ev dilemma