DP Honchkrow

I've been using this as a lead on one of my teams for over a month now and it is incredibly successful. It does have minor issues countering Aerodactyl and Weavile leads but switching to a physical wall stops them cold. It has trouble with dual screen Deoxys since with a Reflect up, Pursuit does very little. I would mention Snatch, which would steal screens for yourself, but you're likely to be Taunted anyway. Not that it matters since the Weavile, Aerodactyl, and Deoxys leads have become much less common.

The only Pokemon it absolutely can't take on is Tyranitar. Sandstorm messes up the Focus Sash and there isn't much that Honchkrow can do other than use Thunder Wave.

Also, this is the first analysis I've done so don't be surprised if there are mistakes.

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/honchkrow


[SET]
Name: Krazy Krow
Move 1: Taunt
Move 2: Thunder Wave
Move 3: Sucker Punch
Move 4: Pursuit
Item: Focus Sash
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 4 HP/ 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Ability: Insomnia


[SET COMMENTS]
<p>This Honchkrow does a great job of stopping some of the most commonly used leads cold. Taunt forces any leads that are looking for a quick setup to rely on damage dealing attacks. Thunder Wave is useful for crippling anything that might be giving you trouble or is likely to need speed in its attempt at a sweep. The combination of Sucker Punch and Pursuit confounds many opponents in deciding what move to use and often leads to surprise KOs. Throwing Insomnia and Focus Sash into the mix creates a Pokemon that is likely to perplex the opponent in trying to uncover Honchkrow's role.</p>

<p>If a player doesn't know much about Honchkrow and is using Bronzong, Gengar, or Roserade as a sleep-inducing leader, they probably don't know that it has Insomnia as its ability. Using Taunt against Bronzong, the most common lead in the game, on the first turn prevents them from discovering this and keeps it a secret until later in the match. Taunt will also prevent Bronzong from accomplishing his main goal of setting up Stealth Rock. After Taunt, you're safe to switch out to something of your own that resists Gyro Ball in and attempt to execute your strategy.</p>

<p>It's advised that you use Pursuit on the first turn against Azelf, Gengar, and Roserade. Azelf will set up Stealth Rock on the first turn and take a fair chunk of damage from Pursuit, eliminating his Focus Sash in the process. Knowing that that Azelf will be KOed if switched out, the player will choose to attack, which is when you KO with Sucker Punch. Gengar is likely to switch out on the first turn in fear of Sucker Punch or a Choice Scarfed Night Slash, so Pursuit will almost always be the right choice. Even if Gengar decides to use Thunderbolt, Focus Sash will kick in and you will get the KO with Sucker Punch on the next turn. Even with just 1 HP, Honchkrow can still can aggravate your opponent for the remainder of the match. Against Roserade, they're likely to attempt setting up Toxic Spikes. Allowing them to do this while you Pursuit and then using Sucker Punch immediately after Toxic Spikes have been set up will also result in a KO. Given Honchkrow's 349 Attack and STAB on Sucker Punch, it's likely to do 25% against most Pokemon, making it perfect for taking down low-health sweepers.</p>

<p>Thunder Wave is there to put a stop to anything that might be causing problems. Focus Sash guarantees that you're able to survive and Paralyze any Choice Scarfed foes. Thunder Wave is also your best choice against another common lead, Gyarados, forcing him to act as little more than a slow physical attacker for the remainder of the battle. Since Honchkrow is faster than most Gyarados, it's not a problem if it switches in on you.</p>

<p>While Honchkrow does a great job of eliminating some of the more common leads, it is possible that Toxic Spikes or Stealth Rock will be set up. As a result, it's probably still a good idea to carry a Rapid Spinner or have a team that's not significantly weak to these strategies.</p>
 

matty

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I was watching a few of your battles today and saw the set. It looked good there and it looks good on paper. I wonder if another option could go over taunt. Steel Wing might remedy your TTar problem, but to be honest, calcs. are probably need to change your mind.

On an editing note, you probably don't need the last paragraph seeing as that is just common competitive knowledge. I'm sure others will give you better feedback.
 
Personally, I wouldn't drop Taunt since it really puts a stop to Bronzong. However, I can see how I don't always end up using Taunt and most of the time just go for the KO. Taunt does stop Spiritomb leads and has its uses later in the match, though.

I couple of other things that I've considered but didn't mention are Thief and Perish Song. Both moves have their own merits and I'd be tempted to put them over Taunt or Thunder Wave. Also, should I mention using TWave against Lucario as it SDs in the set comments (which are already probably too long, sorry)?

Steel Wing against Tyranitar doesn't even 2HKO, which stinks:
6 HP TTar: 40.94% - 47.95%
252 HP TTar: 34.65% - 40.59%

If I made Honchkrow Adamant (383 Att as opposed to 349):
6 HP TTar: 44.74% - 52.63%
252 HP TTar: 37.87% - 44.55%

It still doesn't 2HKO and if it DDs, Sandstorm deactivates my Sash and I'm KOed on the next turn anyway. If it attacks right away, I get KOed by the Sandstorm after the Sash activates. I'd rather not drop the Speed because then it hits 241 Speed as opposed to 265, getting beat by Life Orb DD Gyarados by just 3 points. I guess he's likely to DD anyway but I'd rather not risk it.
 

matty

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Personally, I wouldn't drop Taunt since it really puts a stop to Bronzong. However, I can see how I don't always end up using Taunt and most of the time just go for the KO. Taunt does stop Spiritomb leads and has its uses later in the match, though.

I couple of other things that I've considered but didn't mention are Thief and Perish Song. Both moves have their own merits and I'd be tempted to put them over Taunt or Thunder Wave. Also, should I mention using TWave against Lucario as it SDs in the set comments (which are already probably too long, sorry)?

Steel Wing against Tyranitar doesn't even 2HKO, which stinks:
6 HP TTar: 40.94% - 47.95%
252 HP TTar: 34.65% - 40.59%

If I made Honchkrow Adamant (383 Att as opposed to 349):
6 HP TTar: 44.74% - 52.63%
252 HP TTar: 37.87% - 44.55%

It still doesn't 2HKO and if it DDs, Sandstorm deactivates my Sash and I'm KOed on the next turn anyway. If it attacks right away, I get KOed by the Sandstorm after the Sash activates. I'd rather not drop the Speed because then it hits 241 Speed as opposed to 265, getting beat by Life Orb DD Gyarados by just 3 points. I guess he's likely to DD anyway but I'd rather not risk it.
Ya I understand. The only reason i think something needs to go over Taunt is in a lot of matches I've seen with generally "slower" leads, taunt usually goes as far as stopping maybe Bronzong and Gyara. All the suicide leads are going to do their business and there isn't really anything you can do against Tar (though its a shame that its a 3hko).

Even his movepool doesn't offer to many options. The only other viable move might be screech which would work well with Pursuit, but even that is risky and you would be more likely to just T-Wave it/straight up attack. The set is good and people will probably do the editing now. Good Job.
 

Caelum

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Take out this part as it's pretty much pointless:

"If a player doesn't know much about Honchkrow and is using Bronzong, Gengar, or Roserade as a sleep-inducing leader, they probably don't know that it has Insomnia as its ability. Using Taunt against Bronzong, the most common lead in the game, on the first turn prevents them from discovering this and keeps it a secret until later in the match."

I don't see why this matters at all, just because an opponent may be stupid is a not a reason for you to use a set.

Other than that, I'll have to test it out to make a comment.
 

Stallion

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I've used the exact same set as a lead except I had Drill Peck > Thunder Wave. However, after seeing this thread I am now more inclined to try out Thunder Wave. Perish Song also seems like a solid option in that slot. I'll test it as a lead and give you my personal feedback, looks great on paper :D.
 

jrrrrrrr

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I have the same concerns as MS...I don't really believe that Sucker Punch+Pursuit is really Honchcrow's best way of going about things. I'm sure something could be an option over Thunder Wave. Drill Peck sounds good atm.
 

Blue Kirby

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This post is for Aldaron's and jrrrrrr's purposes ...

Keep this for now - it could be useful in future.
 

Caelum

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This needs to be reexamined in the context of Honckrow gaining Superpower, allowing it to better handle Tyranitar / Heatran / etc.

I'd personally suggest that 5K write a modified version including Superpower and post it in the Platinum updates forum.
 

Colonel M

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I'm going to disagree because this set gets overshadowed in my opinion now. Superpower / Sucker Punch / Heat Wave / Drill Peck mashes most leads, if not all of them. Thunder Wave can work over Drill Peck but my opinion yeah.
 

Caelum

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I'm going to disagree because this set gets overshadowed in my opinion now. Superpower / Sucker Punch / Heat Wave / Drill Peck mashes most leads, if not all of them. Thunder Wave can work over Drill Peck but my opinion yeah.
Hence why I said it needed to be discussed in terms of Superpower, and more generally Platinum Additions. If you have a handle on this w/ your update then that's cool.
 

Colonel M

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I'll let 5KRunner post it if he wants. If not I can always re-post something similair in my Plat Update thread.
 

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