DP Gyarados

[RaikouLover]

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/gyarados

The Resttalk set isn't given much credit, and has no explanation of the EV spread, which isn't optimal for a Defensive Gyarados of this generation.

[SET]
name: RestTalk
move 1: Waterfall
move 2: Stone Edge / Dragon Dance / Avalanche
move 3: Rest
move 4: Sleep Talk
item: Leftovers
nature: Impish
evs: 252 HP / 236 Def / 20 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]

<p> Gyarados is a very capable sleep talker and defensive pokemon in general. This set is designed to come in on physical threats and tank. Waterfall is for primary STAB, which works off Gyarados's fantastic attack stat. Stone Edge gives a wide range of coverage alongside Waterfall, Dragon Dance can increase the chances of a lategame sweep, and Avalanche offers a more immediate solution to Dragons.</p>

<p> Thanks to Intimidate, this Gyarados takes physical hits on switch-ins just as well as a Milotic with Marvel Scale activated. The EVs ensure that Infernape will never KO with Grass Knot after a Nasty Plot. Additionally, a +1 Life Orb Stone Edge from an opposing Gyarados will never KO even after Stealth Rock damage.</p>
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Before you gripe about Leftovers recovery being stupid, this spread takes special hits 2% better than a 252 HP varient, and isn't divisable by 2 for Stealth Rock.

 

[bojangles]

[SET COMMENTS]

<p> Gyarados is a very capable sleep talker and defensive pokemon in general. This set is designed to come in on physical threats and tank (took out "away", seemed unnecessary) in general. Waterfall is for primary STAB, and still works off Gyarados' fantastic attack stat. Stone Edge gives nearly perfect coverage alongside Waterfall, but Dragon Dance can increase the chances of a lategame sweep if your opponent has run out of means to take down Gyarados.</p>

<p> Thanks to Intimidate, this Gyarados takes physical hits on switch-ins just as well as a Milotic with Marvel Scale activated. The EVs offer optimal leftovers recovery and ensure that Infernape will never KO with Grass Knot after a Nasty Plot. Also, a (bit of a run on) +1 Life Orb Stone Edge from an opposing Gyarados will never KO, even after Stealth Rock damage.</p>
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Before you gripe about Leftovers recovery being stupid, this spread takes special hits 2% better than a 252 HP varient, and isn't divisable by 2 (shouldn't this be 4?) for Stealth Rock.

Nice set. I've used one like this to great success. Corrections in bold and thoughts in parentheses.

 

[Metric]

^Building on that;

<p> Gyarados is a very capable sleep talker and defensive pokemon in general. This set is designed to come in on physical threats and tank ('in general' used twice so removed.). Waterfall is for primary STAB, and works off Gyarados' fantastic attack stat. Stone Edge gives nearly perfect coverage alongside Waterfall, but Dragon Dance can increase the chances of a lategame sweep if your opponent has run out of means to take down Gyarados.</p>

<p> Thanks to Intimidate, this Gyarados can take physical hits on switch-ins just as well as a Milotic with Marvel Scale activated. The EVs offer optimal leftovers recovery and ensure that Infernape will never KO with Grass Knot after a Nasty Plot. Additionally, a +1 Life Orb Stone Edge from an opposing Gyarados will never KO, even after Stealth Rock damage.</p>

So, whats going to happen to the current Rest/Talk Gyara? I'm assuming you'll merge the two, so you should add Adamant as an option and go on to explain EV differences.

 

[RaikouLover]

This was meant to replace it completely. This set is designed to be a defensive pokemon and the EVs were stated for its specific purposes. RestTalk Gyarados shouldn't be using an adamant offensive spread.

 

[MetaNite]

I must say, this set is very good. Just got swept by it! Being able to get rid of burns, and DD up is amazing. Once you get rid of the Grass/Water types, this thing is amazing.

Is Ice Fang viable? It'll still hurt Dragons, aswell as Grass types. In addition, it has better accuracy and Stone Edge isn't going to be doing much with it's low PP against physical defensive Suicunes and such. With Ice Fang at least you can freeze it in a stall war ;)

 

[stvn]

I've run a set exactly like that with great sucess, but using Avalanche > Stone Edge.
The OHKO on things like Mence and now Skymin was really valuable. Maybe mention it as an option ?

 

[Caelum]

It's hard to determine which spread is "better" for this Gyarados when I (we?) have no idea what the current EVs on the analysis are designed to do. I don't run Rest-Talk Gyara very often (once I think) so I'm not really familiar what the current EVs are designed to do. I think it's necessary that we get an explanation from someone about the EVs before this can really be decided on (who did the original analysis if anyone knows?).

 

[Earthworm]

I was using Avalanche in the second slot when I used this Gyarados but I used it to wear out Garchomp so Stone Edge might be a better choice now that Garchomp is gone from OU. However, I wouldn't rule it out as an option completely. You may want to mention that this set works really well with a cleric (Heal Bell/Aromatherapy and/or Wish support) and is a better asset to defensively orientated teams than it is to offensively orientated teams (although the latter is really obvious anyway).

 

[RaikouLover]

I must say, this set is very good. Just got swept by it! Being able to get rid of burns, and DD up is amazing. Once you get rid of the Grass/Water types, this thing is amazing.

Is Ice Fang viable? It'll still hurt Dragons, aswell as Grass types. In addition, it has better accuracy and Stone Edge isn't going to be doing much with it's low PP against physical defensive Suicunes and such. With Ice Fang at least you can freeze it in a stall war ;)

Sadly, Ice Fang isn't too valuable on this set as Avalanche will do what it does better. Which leads me to consider Avalanche as another option also because I remember Dormin used it way back when and it does counter Dragons quite well (though with Garchomp gone, Stone Edge does do a good amount to Salamence and Dragonite regardless while still hitting opposing Gyarados). I personally prefer Stone Edge.

@ Earthworm, I don't think its a better option on defensively orientated teams. It seems to pull its weight no matter what. Gyarados has fantastic defensive typing and once the Platinum updates come in, I may have to add a sentence or two about how hard this thing walls Scizor. I used this as my primary "wall" on my "balanced" team in conjuction with Dual Screen Bronzong, and then something fast to absorb thunderbolts. It makes for a VERY potent defensive core (I currently replaced Garchomp for Jolteon).

Edited the changes. Listed Avalanche as an option.

 

[umbarsc]

Be sure to note that without Dragon Dance, Scizor will be able to Swords Dance up and Roost on your weak Dragon Dances to eventually 2HKO with Quick Attack or X-Scissor, which is why I ran Roar on mine.

I also liked to run 96 Speed EVs to outspeed Adamant max speed Tyranitar, but that's probably not necessary.

 

[august]

I ran this set a few times and always ended up changing my EVs to 216 HP / 252 Def / 16 SpD / 24 Atk. Although it really doesnt make a difference, it gives slightly (very slightly) more attack power and i find it redundant to use over 16 SpD EVs since i generally led with it. This post is more so here to say how much i like this set, and i find this one a lot easier to understand than the current one (mainly because they dont explain the EVs, like many people have said already).

I would also mention how while some common sleep inducers often run super effective attacks, Restalk is more for durability

Uh wouldn't you rather have EVs that guarantee survival of +2 Grass Knot than have a few arbitrary EVs that don't accomplish anything?

you say that as if my spread does not survive Nasty Plot Grass Knot. I just find that only 16 SpD EVs to survive Specs Draco Meteor are needed.

 

[umbarsc]

Uh wouldn't you rather have EVs that guarantee survival of +2 Grass Knot than have a few arbitrary EVs that don't accomplish anything?

 

[User 12783]

<p> Gyarados is a very capable sleep talker and defensive pokemon in general. This set is designed to come in on physical threats and tanks. Waterfall is for primary STAB, which works off Gyarados's fantastic attack stat. Stone Edge gives a wide range of coverage alongside Waterfall; Dragon Dance can increase the chances of a lategame sweep if your opponent has run out of means to take down Gyarados, while Avalanche offers a more immediate solution to Dragons.</p>

Jabba once posted in a thread that if you are using a proper name, "s's" is acceptable, and should be used.

<p> Thanks to Intimidate, this Gyarados takes physical hits on switch-ins just as well as a Milotic with Marvel Scale activated. The EVs offer optimal Leftovers recovery and ensure that Infernape will never KO with Grass Knot after a Nasty Plot. Additionally, a +1 Life Orb Stone Edge from an opposing Gyarados will never KO even after Stealth Rock damage.</p>

 

[RaikouLover]

Edited in the changes, thanks Sikh. However, I left tank the way it is because it does seem to sound better. I also took out the part about running out of a means to take down Gyarados because I felt like it was redundant. Also, I kept and because the last sentence sounds better as a list. Any opinions?

Be sure to note that without Dragon Dance, Scizor will be able to Swords Dance up and Roost on your weak Dragon Dances to eventually 2HKO with Quick Attack or X-Scissor, which is why I ran Roar on mine.

Yeah, I will note that when platinum updates are ready.

 

[MetaNite]

Gyarados walls most physical attackers anyway with Intimidate, the EVs seem rather overkill (or over defend?) to me now that I try it out. Few are going to stay in, instead they switch to a counter.

I think more EVs should be in SpD, since their counter will likely be using T-Bolt... and it'll help stop Heatran as he's the most used Pokemon in OU right now. Simply switching your nature to Careful gives you a chance to survive Timid Gengar's thunderbolt and gives you a good chance to not be 2HKO'd by support Uxie with Leftovers factored in.

 

[Great Sage]

252 HP / 236 Def / 20 SpD is a better EV spread for this Gyarados. It gets 0.89% more overall Defense and 0.26% more overall Special Defense than the current spread. The spread with maximum HP is always the best option for Pokemon like Gyarados where HP is less than double Defense or double Special Defense.

 

[RaikouLover]

Sage's EVs are the best, so I will use that. There is absolutely no reason to use Careful and concentrate on special defense since 1) you wall Heatran anyway and 2) why would you need to survive a gengar Thunderbolt when you don't outspeed it?

 

[Havak]

I was thinking would Earthquake be worth a puting in there? Helps out with Blissey or other Special walls that are well walling your Waterfall

Um, Blissey takes more damage from Waterfall than it does from Earthquake, Waterfall is a physical attack.

 

[Blazikenmaster-Zeo]

sorry

 

[Colonel M]

On a side note I think the analysis needs a re-write. No offense to Jump or anything but I've noticed a few things. First off it is in first person and the general goal is to prevent this. The second being more emphasis on some of the other sets such as the Offensive Gyara and the Choice Bander. I'm willing to go into a Peer Edit with Gyarados in general and adding this set in over the current one. Do you mind if I do this RaikouLover?

But besides that I like these EVs better because I prefer Gyarados being more bulky when it comes to this set than offensively tearing apart. He can obviously do that in a short time but needs removal of Grass-types, Electrics, and most that carry a Rock-move. AND, I think this needs to be seperated. Sleep Talk + Dragon Dance should be one set and "two move Sleep Talker" should be another with Avalanche and Stone Edge covering the option of Dragon Dance in the second analysis. Roar would also work in the set.

 

[RaikouLover]

Go ahead and do the rewrite. I personally think the Gyarados sets are all outdated.

Bulky Gyarados needs to be outspeeding at least infernape first of all, and Ice Fang / Earthquake is terrible on a pokemon that is supposed to switch in on Heracross. DD Gyarados now doesn't use bite since Stone Edge kills Starmie anyway and Ice Fang beats Celebi (and they use max speed now). Other than that, I think you should keep the Resttalk set as one set rather than splitting it up. Dragon Dance + Sleep Talk doesn't play different than the other two because it doesn't look to sweep as its primary objective. Dragon Dance really does just add the extra dimension to what it already is supposed to do, which is tank.

 

[Colonel M]

Well like the Rest Talk + Curse Swampert, they play quite differently. You see you sacrifice a set-up move for a second attack (or Roar if you prefer it). That's why I feel it should be seperated.

As for a peer edit expect it in a little bit. Maybe not today but tommorrow... possibly.

 

[RaikouLover]

In using the Dragon Dance varient, I don't ever go into a battle expecting it to sweep. I just use it to punish Infernapes, Lucario's, and Scizors, and then sweep if the opportunity presents it (which never happens until the lategame).