DP Froslass

[Colloquy]

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/froslass

[SET]
name: Sub Petaya
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Thunderbolt
move 3: Ice Beam
move 4: Shadow Ball
item: Petaya Berry
nature: Timid
evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
ivs: 30 HP

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>With Froslass' only modest Special Attack, a boost from a Petaya Berry can give it the power it needs to make a sweep. Substitute down to enough HP to activate the Petaya Berry, and attack away with +1 Special Attack. Ice Beam and Thunderbolt provide great coverage, while Shadow Ball hits the Psychic-type Special walls of UU Super Effective.</p>

<p>The bane of Pinch-Berry sets is Priority moves, like Fake Out, Mach Punch, and Ice Shard. Froslass is immune to the first two, and resists the latter, making it a good candidate for a set like this. And, it already has nice Speed, meaning it doesn't need a Salac Berry to outspeed certain threats.</p>

<p>The given EVs and the HP IV of 30 allow for Froslass to activate the Petaya Berry in three Substitutes instead of four. This allows you to put up another if needed for protection, and to allow for a faster set-up. The only things that really stop this are Clefable, walling every single attack very nicely, and Hitmontop's Bullet Punch OHKOing even at Max HP.</p>

<h3>Damage Calculations:</h3>
<pre>
Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 200 SpD Calm Hypno: 51% - 61%
Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 20 SpD Timid (Calm Mind) +1 Grumpig: 46% - 56%
Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 96 SpD Calm (Sleep Talk) Grumpig: 59% - 69%
Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Calm Flareon: 28% - 34%
Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Bold Rotom: 100%
Ice Beam vs. 80 HP / 252 SpD Calm Drifblim: 75% - 89% (OHKO with Stealth Rock)
Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Bold Weezing: 67% - 79%
Ice Beam vs. 216 HP / 0 SpD Bold Meganium: 95% - 100% (OHKO with Stealth Rock)
Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Calm Clefable: 32% - 39%
Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Bold (Calm Mind) Clefable: 46% - 55%
</pre>

 

[Stellar]

This is really rushed and its obvious that you just made up some of the information in set comments (For example, +1 Hidden Power Fire does 79% max to max HP Steelix).

I would probably restart this completely and flesh out the comments after you have tested this set more extensively.

 

[Imran]

Stellar is right. If you were going to post a set, why not wait until you have the time to write it properly. Theres just no point writing a rushed set.

 

[Havak]

Also, why list Hidden Power Fire and not Hidden Power Fighting?

 

[Jimbo]

Like it's been said, this sounds pretty rushed. However if you're not starting over, don't use "good" twice in the first sentence.

I don't understand how you'd "rush" a peer edit. Maybe I'm different, I write all my edits in random other posts and edit them myself a little before posting. I guess not everyone does that ?_?

 

[Colonel M]

Wouldn't Ice Beam almost OHKO Steelix anyways? Besides Shadow Ball / Thunderbolt / Ice Beam cover each other pretty nicely.

 

[CHENN]

<p>With Froslass' good Speed and decent Special Attack, its a good candidate for a Petaya Berry set. Substitute down until you activate the boost, and sweep away. Ice Beam and Thunderbolt provide good coverage, while Shadow Ball hits the Psychic Special walls of UU hard. </p>

<p>The given EVs allow you to activate your Petaya Berry after 3 Subtitutes, and allow for maximum Speed. </p>

Replaced "it's" with "its", and "and" with "while"

Also, the paragraph about HP Fire OHKOing Steelix after Petaya boost was incorrect, as many have stated.

and allow for maximum Speed. </p>

Took away the "you" between allow and for.

Agreeing with most other people. Shadow Ball/Thunderbolt/Ice Beam cover each other nicely. Ice Beam almost takes out Steelix, so might as well not have HP Fire.

 

[Legacy Raider]

Instead of wasting 8 SpA EVs, you could always run a HP IV of 30 and put the 4 extra EVs into SpD to get it divisible by 4. That's what's done on most Sub-Pinch Berry sets where the users HP gives a multiple of 4+1.

 

[Caelum]

Instead of wasting 8 SpA EVs, you could always run a HP IV of 30 and put the 4 extra EVs into SpD to get it divisible by 4. That's what's done on most Sub-Pinch Berry sets where the users HP gives a multiple of 4+1.

Wouldn't it make more sense for the EV spread to be 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe with an HP IV of 26 (for HP Fire 70). It would accomplish the same thing but allow for HP Fire 70.

@OP: The ability tag isn't used when the Pokemon only has one ability either. Remove it.

I'm not questioning the efficacy of the set, but literally everything in the game can Substitute down to a berry boost and I'm not sure this is necessary to include in an analysis. Generally, when I look at berry sets, I generally want them to have one stat-up move. Let's take Sub-Salac Garchomp. You are Subbing down to activate a Speed boost while gathering +2 Attack along the way. Rock Polish Rhyperior will often Substitute down to a Liechi Berry etc. Here, you are just Subbing down for +1 SpA.

Anyway, re-write this with a more convincing argument and detail and I might reconsider my thoughts on it =D

 

[jrrrrrrr]

Sorry, I had to rush this.

Heh, you weren't kidding.

You should mention how a set like this that is normally destroyed by priority is different on Frosslass because its immune to both Fake Out and Mach Punch.

 

[Farewell]

It also resists Ice Shards (like from Cloyster). Making it great at switching into Cloyster Rapid Spins and Explosions, and Thunderbolting it back.

 

[Bourbon]

Ice Beam does more than super effective Hidden Power. I was always amused by this, when people would use Hidden Power Ice on my Zapdos instead of Thunderbolt :/

142.5 > 140

Put Shadow Ball, or another Hidden Power type in the last slot.

 

[Colloquy]

Here, I fixed some of the issues. Oh, and believe me. I have tested this set to great success.

 

[CHENN]

Oh shit, in my earlier correction, my usage of its was incorrect. I changed around "it's a good candidate for". Keep it that way. Instead of its, just use it's. Sorry!

 

[Kawl]

is bullet punching scizor in UU?

 

[Colloquy]

What Kawl said. And in case you meant Hitmontop, tons of things counter it. :/

 

[Colonel M]

Might need a re-write for the SET COMMENTS but otherwise liking this set. If you can patch it up a little bit (it sounds weird) and I'll add it in eventually.

 

[Colloquy]

Might need a re-write for the SET COMMENTS but otherwise liking this set. If you can patch it up a little bit (it sounds weird) and I'll add it in eventually.

Awesome. I'll get around to it. What is there really to say, though? :/

 

[Stellar]

Calculations against things like Calm Clefable and such. You could also mention the possibility of Bullet Punch Hitmontop ruining a sweep. Just try to add a bit more description and it should be fine.

 

[Colloquy]

Will do, Stellar.

 

[Stellar]

<h3>Damage Calculations:</h3>
<pre>
Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 200 SpD Calm Hypno: 53% - 62%
Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 20 SpD Timid (Calm Mind) +1 Grumpig: 48% - 56%
Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 96 SpD Calm (Sleep Talk) Grumpig: 60% - 72%
Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Calm Flareon: 30% - 34%
Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Bold Rotom: 117% - 138%
Ice Beam vs. 80 HP / 252 SpD Calm Drifblim: 75% - 90% (OHKO with Stealth Rock)
Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Bold Weezing: 68% - 80%
Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Relaxed (Elemental) Weezing: 61% - 73%
Ice Beam vs. 216 HP / 0 SpD Bold Meganium: 95% - 112% (OHKO with Stealth Rock)
Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Calm Clefable: 32% - 39%
Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Bold (Calm Mind) Clefable: 47% - 55%
</pre>

Is how it should look. Are these before or after Petaya?

 

[Colonel M]

Good. After you answer Stellar's question, I think there will be little argument to this. I'll add 'er in after that.

 

[Cynthia]

I'm pretty sure those are after the Petaya boost, they would be too high for an unboosted neutral natured Froslass.

 

[Colloquy]

Thanks guys, and it was after the Petaya.

 

[umbarsc]

Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Bold Weezing: 68% - 80%
Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Relaxed (Elemental) Weezing: 61% - 73%

I'm confused.