DP Electivire

[Adam Blade]

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/electivire

[SET]
Name: LiechiVire
Move 1: Substitute
Move 2: Meditate
Move 3: Ice Punch
Move 4: ThunderPunch
item: Liechi Berry
nature: Adamant
evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe


[SET COMMENTS]
<p>While Electivire has a very impressive base Attack stat, 123 to be exact, it is still not quite enough for Electivire to sweep through the most dedicated walls in DP. Furthermore, with its only option to boost its Attack being Meditate, Electivire often doesn't have the power necessary to effectively sweep. Given Electivire's frailty, he will often find it difficult to effectively Meditate more then once. However, by using Substitute and a Liechi Berry not only will Electivire be able to guard itself from status but will normally be able to net +2 Attack before the cycle is complete.</p>

<p>The idea is to safely switch Electivire in on an electrical attack to activate Motor Drive. Hopefully, you will also be able to force a switch when you bring Electivire in to net a free Substitute. From there, Electivire will Substitute down to activate the Liechi Berry, Meditate if possible, and attempt to sweep with boosted Speed and Attack. Some notable examples of what Electivire can 2HKO that it normally cannot without a Liechi and a Meditate boost, assuming Stealth Rock damage; include Celebi, Hippowdon, Donphan, and most Forretress. This set is best used late-game when the majority of an opponents team is weakened. It is also effective when coupled with residual damage such as Stealth Rock and Spikes.</p>

<p>The coverage provided by ThunderPunch and Ice Punch is impeccable and gives Electivire a pseudo-boltbeam. You can forgo Meditate for Cross Chop if you wish to have greater coverage; however, this is not recommended. A Jolly nature can also be used for additional Speed. Salac Berry is also a decent alternative to the Liechi Berry to guarantee a Speed boost if you are unable to activate Motor Drive.</p>

<p>The EVs are rather intuitive; however, it is important to note that 4 HP EVs (assuming a 31 HP IV) produces an HP stat divisible by four to allow the Liechi Berry to activate after three Substitutes.</p>

 

[Imran]

I think Jolly should be an option on Nature. Electivire isn't always going to get its boost and can sometimes be a liability because of it. It will also make the set usable by itself and grabs a few nice KOs on things that might not expect it. It should at least be mentioned in set comments IMO.

On second thoughts It's probably worth mentioning only in set comments. Same with Salac Berry. Not an integral part of the set, but a possibility

 

[Adam Blade]

Ok, I'll edit that. Thanks.

Edit: Edited...

 

[Imran]

Dargh, edited my post too late. Just posting so you noticed I said its probably only set comments material, same with Salac

 

[User 12783]

Their is a mention of Platinum in here, so it goes in the Platinum Analysis Workshop. Specifically: "DPPt." This is rather well written though, nice job.

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>While Electivire has a very impressive base Attack stat, 123 to be exact, it is still not quite enough for Electivire to sweep through the most dedicated walls in DPPt. Furthermore, with its only option to boost its Attack being Meditate, Electivire often doesn't have the power necessary to effectively sweep. Given Electivire's frailty, he will often find it difficult to effectively Meditate more then once. However, by using Substitute and a Liechi Berry not only will Electivire be able to guard itself from status but will normally be able to net +2 Attack before the cycle is complete.</p>

 

[Caelum]

eh, just removed DPPt . It's not really necessary to say anyway.

Oh, and I obviously like this set :)

 

[jrrrrrrr]

A Substitute set on Electivire could be effective, but I don't think this is the way to go about it. You say that you can 2hko a bunch of things after a Meditate, but that isn't doing much with Electivire's poor defenses and mediocre typing. Electivire's physical moves just have too low of base powers to do much of anything even with that great Atk stat.

So, Hippowdon comes in on a Sub, EQs as you Meditate, then you either go down to Liechi and then fail to OHKO it or hit it with Ice Punch and then promptly get KOd yourself.

I can see this set getting a few surprise KOs but I am not convinced that it is better than any other Electivire set. I don't know that 95 base speed, no Swords Dance and poor moves will = success. Does anyone else with Electivire experience have anything to say?

 

[Caelum]

I'll testify to it's efficacy. It's obviously not an SD Luke but it's an effective use of E-Vire's talents. It certainly does better against it's counter then a standard Electivire. To be fair,

This set is best used late-game when the majority of an opponents team is weakened. It is also effective when coupled with residual damage such as Stealth Rock and Spikes.

You do use this set when things are weakened. You don't really straight up sweep with it, but Electivire never has. Part of the reason this set is successful, in my opinion, is that you can actually do something once you have your Speed boost rather then just Attacking and having to switch out because you aren't strong enough.

In my experience it performs better then the standard Life Orb Electivire.

 

[MetaNite]

The amazing thing about Electivire is it's unparallel type coverage. This set takes away that type coverage, making Electivire's only advantage the possibility to get a Motor Drive boost. I think Meditate should be replaced by Cross Chop or EQ so it can retain some of it's awesome coverage, otherwise it's pretty much ouclassed.

 

[Caelum]

Outclassed by what ? You can be critical of the set but that doesn't make any sense.

 

[Imran]

He menitions in set comments about Improving the Type Coverage, but a little more detail might be in order as to what you can hit...

As for what Jrrrrrrrrrr said, I agree with Caelum, thats like saying "Why post a Jolteon set as it will just be walled by Blissey" Surely this set will need support just like any other set.

 

[MetaNite]

Outclassed by what ? You can be critical of the set but that doesn't make any sense.

I was thinking Weavile, who has Sword Dance (although has poorer defenses), Heracross, SubSalace Machamp maybe even Staraptor because it's faster. What I mean is, why not just be like Weavile and SD on the switch? Unless I have a marked Electric weakness, why go through all that trouble?

I didn't mean to be real critical, short and sweet, Earthquake should be an option over Meditate.

 

[CHENN]

majority of an opponent's team is weakened.

 

[Adam Blade]

So far, everything was edited in. Any more flaws?

 

[Caelum]

Seems to be a bit of controversy over this. I personally prefer this over Electivire's other sets so I'd like to see a bit more discussion here. It's equally if not more effective in my experience. I'm not a particular fan of Electivire, but if I were going to use a set I would choose this one. =)

 

[diinbong]

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/electivire

[SET]
Name: LiechiVire
Move 1: Substitute
Move 2: Meditate
Move 3: Ice Punch
Move 4: ThunderPunch
item: Liechi Berry
nature: Adamant
evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe


[SET COMMENTS]
<p>While Electivire has a very impressive base 123 Attack stat, it is still not quite enough for Electivire to sweep through the most dedicated walls in DP. Furthermore, with its only option to boost its Attack being Meditate, Electivire often doesn't have the power necessary to effectively sweep. Given Electivire's frailty, he will often find it difficult to effectively Meditate more then once. However, by using Substitute and a Liechi Berry not only will Electivire be able to guard itself from status but will normally be able to net +2 Attack before the cycle is complete.</p>

<p>The idea is to safely switch Electivire in on an electrical attack to activate Motor Drive. Hopefully, you will also be able to force a switch when you bring Electivire in to net a free Substitute. From there, Electivire will Substitute down to activate the Liechi Berry, Meditate if possible, and attempt to sweep with boosted Speed and Attack. Some notable examples of what Electivire can 2HKO that it normally cannot without a Liechi and a Meditate boost (assuming Stealth Rock damage) (removed semicolon) include Celebi, Hippowdon, Donphan, and most Forretress. This set is best used late-game when the majority of an opponents team is weakened. It is also effective when coupled with residual damage such as Stealth Rock and/or Spikes.</p>

<p>The coverage provided by ThunderPunch and Ice Punch is impeccable and gives Electivire a pseudo-boltbeam. You can forgo Meditate for Cross Chop if you wish to have greater coverage, however, this is not recommended. A Jolly nature can also be used for additional Speed. Salac Berry is (removed the repetitive "also") a decent alternative over the Liechi Berry to guarantee a Speed boost if you are unable to activate Motor Drive.</p>

<p>The EVs are rather intuitive, however, it is important to note that 4 HP EVs (assuming a 31 HP IV) produces an HP stat divisible by four to allow the Liechi Berry to activate after three Substitutes.</p>

 

[Bourbon]

OK, call me crazy, but Liechi Berry is a bad item here. Use the Life Orb instead.

Life Orb gives a 1.95x boost, while Meditate plus Liechi brings you up to a stage 2 attack level, or a 2x boost. The Life Orb + Meditate essentially doubles your attack immediately, without having to get Electivire down to low health.

A +1 Life Orb Ice Punch is a guaranteed 2HKO on Hippowdon when Stealth Rock damage is considered. Celebi is also 2HKOed, taking 60% minimum.

If paired with a flying type, you could likely trick Hippowdon into letting you defeat it. Meditate on the switch, then Substitute. The hippowdon will probably Slack Off or Stealth Rock or something along those lines, predicting a switch out. Now use Ice Punch for a 2HKO.

 

[kd24]

unfortunately, life orb + substitute is absolute murder, especially with sandstorm and stealth rock everywhere.

you switch in once to substitute and then attack means you take pretty much 53% damage and thats with just one attack after substitute. you will quickly wear yourself, and even though electivire isnt made for taking hits, he at least wants to sweep for as long as possible.

 

[Jimbo]

Furthermore, with its only option to boost its Attack being Meditate

Sounds a little awkward/passive. I'd change it around a bit. Maybe something like "Furthermore, with Meditate being Electivire's only method of boosting its Attack..." Meditate should definitely be close to the comma because it's the subject of the sentence.

 

[cim]

KD24 is right. *gasp*

Drop Sub if you want a Meditating Orb set, though to be honest Electivire can't turn Life Orb 3HKOs (Celebi, Hippo) into Life Orb OHKOs with just a Meditate so it's largely pointless. Just like Elecivire himself. Wow, Electivire sucks a lot.

I guess it's the "best he can do" though. God, Electivire is horrible...

 

[Bourbon]

With the Life Orb you do a whopping 5% less damage and hit harder off the bat. Life Orb > Liechi Berry.

 

[darkie]

Why do you completely ignore KD's point about LO + Sub and residual damage, instead saying that you do -less- damage with LO, which apparently means that LO > Liechi?

 

[diinbong]

I think he means get rid of Substitute and use Life Orb over Liechi berry for better coverage and for being saved from priority and such when at low health. Bullet Punch is everywhere in today's Metagame, plus the better coverage and instant boost make it my preferred option. *hope I was clear on that*