darkmalice
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Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Doubles CCAT #2 - Completed!
- Thread starter BlankZero
- Start date
voting for myself
that cune gif is so pretty <3
that cune gif is so pretty <3
Darkmalice pls
Nollan
Suicune
BlankZero
With 5 Votes, it seems Suicune is our final mon!
Now for the fun part.
Revisions!
Take the team as is and try and ladder with it. After a few attempts, please come back to the thread and post your results, as well as any minor tweaks you've tried that were successful. Please refrain from changing more than 1 Pokemon completely (species-wise) but feel free to tweak EVs and move sets as much as you'd like.
I'll give you all about a week to try this out while we wait for the Suspect Vote thread.
Now for the fun part.
Revisions!
Take the team as is and try and ladder with it. After a few attempts, please come back to the thread and post your results, as well as any minor tweaks you've tried that were successful. Please refrain from changing more than 1 Pokemon completely (species-wise) but feel free to tweak EVs and move sets as much as you'd like.
I'll give you all about a week to try this out while we wait for the Suspect Vote thread.
could you put the team in importable format (aka remove the images) so people can actually c/p and use it without having to edit out the image tags? not a huge deal but makes it easier for people to grab the team and start playing
No problem! I'm not at home and doing it on my phone is a pain but I'll make an importable version for the OP and in the post above.
ok so i laddered with the team (dont ask my rating as i forfeited against the clearly bad teams). i found it was quite weak to rest cm cress. bisharp only managed 74.3% max with knock off assuming chesto berry hasnt already been used. sucker punch can be played around very easily with rest and cm. none of the other pokes really touch cress either. suicune can mitigate the spatk boosts, but cannot touch it in return.
to help with this i tried taunt over quick guard on terrakion. i found myself not really using quick guard often and taunt was much better in shutting down tr without cress, as well as stopping rests/calm minding, letting bisharp do its work with sucker punch.
EDIT: i also changed terrakion to non shiny and cress and bisharp to shiny. i think the team synergy looks a lot better
to help with this i tried taunt over quick guard on terrakion. i found myself not really using quick guard often and taunt was much better in shutting down tr without cress, as well as stopping rests/calm minding, letting bisharp do its work with sucker punch.
EDIT: i also changed terrakion to non shiny and cress and bisharp to shiny. i think the team synergy looks a lot better
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Fairy-types in particular are quite threatening to this team. Mega Mawile goes by pretty much unchecked by this team; Mence has Fire Blast but that's not going to KO, and Bisharp / Mega Venusaur can only check it when it's severely weakened. Mega Gardevoir is a problem too; Bisharp is our most reliable check to it but gets worn down easily and can't switch in. In a similar vein, Sylveon is annoying since it has its way easily with our weak special attacks and resistant physicals.
I'm really against letting Mence have the scarf. Draco spam is hardly as effective as it used to be, leaving huge openings for Fairies to tromp on us. I feel like a regular Mence will do just fine, I mean we really don't need the speed with Suicune's Tailwind and all that.
In fact, I'm in huge support of replacing ScarfMence with MixMence. We simply don't need the Speed; instead, we should opt for something that can do more lasting damage. We already rely on it to sponge some hits and Intimidate, so giving it a Scarf really doesn't work out that well. Something like
Salamence Life Orb
Intimidate
Naive nature
72 Atk / 184 SpA / 252 Spe
-Draco Meteor
-EQ
-Fire Blast
-Protect
With a mixed spread would suit us more. It doesn't have to worry about Fairies coming in vs Draco, so it has more breathing room and can suit more reckless playstyles. EQ wrecks Mega Mawile and hits Mega Gard / Sylveon harder than everything else Mence has rn; with mixed EQ, we could even forsake Venusaur's mixedness for a more focused bulky set. Fire Blast stays because fuck Steels and Fire coverage is awesome, but I think Heat Wave can be tested as well. Finally, obligatory Protect.
LO MixMence works better because:
- Has more breathing room to spam Draco Meteors since it isn't completely helpless when a Fairy switches in.
- Has more stayin ability- Mixed means you can fire off Draco yet still hit hard with physical EQ
- Hits harder; LO is a lot more powerful
- Pairs with Tailwind exceptionally well; extra Speed + Power + Coverage = domination
- More liquid set leads to greater abusability of Intimidate
IF we do that, as I said earlier, we can swap Venusaur's EQ for something else. I think Hidden Power Ice would be nice; it has great coverage with Grass and hits Ground- and Flying-types, but Hidden Power Fire works too to hit Steel-types.
I'm really against letting Mence have the scarf. Draco spam is hardly as effective as it used to be, leaving huge openings for Fairies to tromp on us. I feel like a regular Mence will do just fine, I mean we really don't need the speed with Suicune's Tailwind and all that.
In fact, I'm in huge support of replacing ScarfMence with MixMence. We simply don't need the Speed; instead, we should opt for something that can do more lasting damage. We already rely on it to sponge some hits and Intimidate, so giving it a Scarf really doesn't work out that well. Something like
Salamence Life Orb
Intimidate
Naive nature
72 Atk / 184 SpA / 252 Spe
-Draco Meteor
-EQ
-Fire Blast
-Protect
With a mixed spread would suit us more. It doesn't have to worry about Fairies coming in vs Draco, so it has more breathing room and can suit more reckless playstyles. EQ wrecks Mega Mawile and hits Mega Gard / Sylveon harder than everything else Mence has rn; with mixed EQ, we could even forsake Venusaur's mixedness for a more focused bulky set. Fire Blast stays because fuck Steels and Fire coverage is awesome, but I think Heat Wave can be tested as well. Finally, obligatory Protect.
LO MixMence works better because:
- Has more breathing room to spam Draco Meteors since it isn't completely helpless when a Fairy switches in.
- Has more stayin ability- Mixed means you can fire off Draco yet still hit hard with physical EQ
- Hits harder; LO is a lot more powerful
- Pairs with Tailwind exceptionally well; extra Speed + Power + Coverage = domination
- More liquid set leads to greater abusability of Intimidate
IF we do that, as I said earlier, we can swap Venusaur's EQ for something else. I think Hidden Power Ice would be nice; it has great coverage with Grass and hits Ground- and Flying-types, but Hidden Power Fire works too to hit Steel-types.
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Stratos
Banned deucer.
In #doubles we were discussing this ccat and came to a couple basically unanimous decisions:
-protect > pulse on mence and life orb > scarf
-something+giga > synth+eq on venu
There are still a lot of changes that could be made and tweaked but these are two easy obvious ones that I think everyone using the ccat should change right now. Between tailwind, TR, and Sucker Punch, dealing with faster mons with mence is not at all worth being locked into moves and only having two protect users on the team, whereas 3 atks lo mence is a very valuable offensive presence. Similarly, EQ is useless on venu between mence and cune, whereas giga is quite a good move in all scenarios. You could use leech seed or protect over Synthesis but use SOMETHING because synthesis is honestly very bad
-protect > pulse on mence and life orb > scarf
-something+giga > synth+eq on venu
There are still a lot of changes that could be made and tweaked but these are two easy obvious ones that I think everyone using the ccat should change right now. Between tailwind, TR, and Sucker Punch, dealing with faster mons with mence is not at all worth being locked into moves and only having two protect users on the team, whereas 3 atks lo mence is a very valuable offensive presence. Similarly, EQ is useless on venu between mence and cune, whereas giga is quite a good move in all scenarios. You could use leech seed or protect over Synthesis but use SOMETHING because synthesis is honestly very bad
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How about dropping Venusaur and Suicune for:
Amoonguss @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 180 Def / 76 SDef
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- After You
- Rage Powder
- Giga Drain
- Spore
Gyarados @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
Adamant Nature
- Protect
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
Amoonguss goes well with Terrakion and Bisharp, and After You helps Terrakion, Salamence, and Gyarados if you get in to an awkward position with Trick Room.
Suicune is a little too defensive for me, and Gyarados has similar bulk with a better offensive presence. Gyarados makes the burn problem a little worse, but Rage Powder helps with that. If Will-O-Wisp is still too frightening, perhaps Substitute over Protect on Gyara, Substitute over Quick Guard on Terrakion, or Safeguard over Helping Hand on Cresselia.
Amoonguss @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 180 Def / 76 SDef
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- After You
- Rage Powder
- Giga Drain
- Spore
Gyarados @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
Adamant Nature
- Protect
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
Amoonguss goes well with Terrakion and Bisharp, and After You helps Terrakion, Salamence, and Gyarados if you get in to an awkward position with Trick Room.
Suicune is a little too defensive for me, and Gyarados has similar bulk with a better offensive presence. Gyarados makes the burn problem a little worse, but Rage Powder helps with that. If Will-O-Wisp is still too frightening, perhaps Substitute over Protect on Gyara, Substitute over Quick Guard on Terrakion, or Safeguard over Helping Hand on Cresselia.
I'll admit I haven't been paying great attention to the process of this ccat, but just looking over the team ( haven't tested it ) it looks like it gets mauled by mega Scizor with the only way to really kill it being fire blast from Mence and maybe a scald burn from suicine
I've been using Shuca Heatran over MegaSaur and LO Mence. It lacks a Mega, but with our huge Tran weakness, it helps immensely to have that Flash Fire.
so are any of the changes being implemented in the OP? is there a vote for each change to see if it should be changed in the OP or not? surely players that want to snag a team made by the best in the meta should have the changes that said players have suggested?
So we are going to do a vote on Revisions, mainly because Pocket and Aura brought up some good points to me. The voting process here will be a bit different though. Instead of voting on each change one at a time, we will be doing a mass yes/no vote on all possible revisions. Because of this, I'm allowing 24 more hours to make revisions and post them. Finally, once all the revisions are posted, I will post a list of things to vote on. Please take this time to make any last minute suggestions/changes and post about them here so I can include them. If there are any conflicting revisions (2 EV spreads for the same mon, they will be addressed specifically at that time.
Post now or forever hold your peace!
Post now or forever hold your peace!
VOTE NOW!
1. Trade Taunt for Quick Guard on Terrakion
2. Trade Salamence's Scarf for LO
*if yes*
2a.Change Salamence's set
3a.Trade MegaVenu/Suicune for Amoongus/MegaGyarados
-OR-
3b.Trade MegaVenu for Heatran
Please vote Yes/No where appropriate.
example:
1. Trade Taunt for Quick Guard on Terrakion
2. Trade Salamence's Scarf for LO
*if yes*
2a.Change Salamence's set
Fairy-types in particular are quite threatening to this team. Mega Mawile goes by pretty much unchecked by this team; Mence has Fire Blast but that's not going to KO, and Bisharp / Mega Venusaur can only check it when it's severely weakened. Mega Gardevoir is a problem too; Bisharp is our most reliable check to it but gets worn down easily and can't switch in. In a similar vein, Sylveon is annoying since it has its way easily with our weak special attacks and resistant physicals.
I'm really against letting Mence have the scarf. Draco spam is hardly as effective as it used to be, leaving huge openings for Fairies to tromp on us. I feel like a regular Mence will do just fine, I mean we really don't need the speed with Suicune's Tailwind and all that.
In fact, I'm in huge support of replacing ScarfMence with MixMence. We simply don't need the Speed; instead, we should opt for something that can do more lasting damage. We already rely on it to sponge some hits and Intimidate, so giving it a Scarf really doesn't work out that well. Something like
Salamence Life Orb
Intimidate
Naive nature
72 Atk / 184 SpA / 252 Spe
-Draco Meteor
-EQ
-Fire Blast
-Protect
With a mixed spread would suit us more. It doesn't have to worry about Fairies coming in vs Draco, so it has more breathing room and can suit more reckless playstyles. EQ wrecks Mega Mawile and hits Mega Gard / Sylveon harder than everything else Mence has rn; with mixed EQ, we could even forsake Venusaur's mixedness for a more focused bulky set. Fire Blast stays because fuck Steels and Fire coverage is awesome, but I think Heat Wave can be tested as well. Finally, obligatory Protect.
LO MixMence works better because:
- Has more breathing room to spam Draco Meteors since it isn't completely helpless when a Fairy switches in.
- Has more stayin ability- Mixed means you can fire off Draco yet still hit hard with physical EQ
- Hits harder; LO is a lot more powerful
- Pairs with Tailwind exceptionally well; extra Speed + Power + Coverage = domination
- More liquid set leads to greater abusability of Intimidate
IF we do that, as I said earlier, we can swap Venusaur's EQ for something else. I think Hidden Power Ice would be nice; it has great coverage with Grass and hits Ground- and Flying-types, but Hidden Power Fire works too to hit Steel-types.
I'm really against letting Mence have the scarf. Draco spam is hardly as effective as it used to be, leaving huge openings for Fairies to tromp on us. I feel like a regular Mence will do just fine, I mean we really don't need the speed with Suicune's Tailwind and all that.
In fact, I'm in huge support of replacing ScarfMence with MixMence. We simply don't need the Speed; instead, we should opt for something that can do more lasting damage. We already rely on it to sponge some hits and Intimidate, so giving it a Scarf really doesn't work out that well. Something like
Salamence Life Orb
Intimidate
Naive nature
72 Atk / 184 SpA / 252 Spe
-Draco Meteor
-EQ
-Fire Blast
-Protect
With a mixed spread would suit us more. It doesn't have to worry about Fairies coming in vs Draco, so it has more breathing room and can suit more reckless playstyles. EQ wrecks Mega Mawile and hits Mega Gard / Sylveon harder than everything else Mence has rn; with mixed EQ, we could even forsake Venusaur's mixedness for a more focused bulky set. Fire Blast stays because fuck Steels and Fire coverage is awesome, but I think Heat Wave can be tested as well. Finally, obligatory Protect.
LO MixMence works better because:
- Has more breathing room to spam Draco Meteors since it isn't completely helpless when a Fairy switches in.
- Has more stayin ability- Mixed means you can fire off Draco yet still hit hard with physical EQ
- Hits harder; LO is a lot more powerful
- Pairs with Tailwind exceptionally well; extra Speed + Power + Coverage = domination
- More liquid set leads to greater abusability of Intimidate
IF we do that, as I said earlier, we can swap Venusaur's EQ for something else. I think Hidden Power Ice would be nice; it has great coverage with Grass and hits Ground- and Flying-types, but Hidden Power Fire works too to hit Steel-types.
-protect > pulse on mence and life orb > scarf
3a.Trade MegaVenu/Suicune for Amoongus/MegaGyarados
Venusaur @ Venusaurite
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 HP / 252 SAtk
Quiet Nature
- Sleep Powder
- Sludge Bomb
- Earthquake
- Synthesis
Suicune @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 240 HP / 80 Def / 112 SpA / 76 SpD
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Snarl
- Tailwind
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 HP / 252 SAtk
Quiet Nature
- Sleep Powder
- Sludge Bomb
- Earthquake
- Synthesis
Suicune @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 240 HP / 80 Def / 112 SpA / 76 SpD
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Snarl
- Tailwind
Amoonguss @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 180 Def / 76 SDef
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- After You
- Rage Powder
- Giga Drain
- Spore
Gyarados @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
Adamant Nature
- Protect
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
Amoonguss goes well with Terrakion and Bisharp, and After You helps Terrakion, Salamence, and Gyarados if you get in to an awkward position with Trick Room.
Suicune is a little too defensive for me, and Gyarados has similar bulk with a better offensive presence. Gyarados makes the burn problem a little worse, but Rage Powder helps with that. If Will-O-Wisp is still too frightening, perhaps Substitute over Protect on Gyara, Substitute over Quick Guard on Terrakion, or Safeguard over Helping Hand on Cresselia.
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 180 Def / 76 SDef
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- After You
- Rage Powder
- Giga Drain
- Spore
Gyarados @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
Adamant Nature
- Protect
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
Amoonguss goes well with Terrakion and Bisharp, and After You helps Terrakion, Salamence, and Gyarados if you get in to an awkward position with Trick Room.
Suicune is a little too defensive for me, and Gyarados has similar bulk with a better offensive presence. Gyarados makes the burn problem a little worse, but Rage Powder helps with that. If Will-O-Wisp is still too frightening, perhaps Substitute over Protect on Gyara, Substitute over Quick Guard on Terrakion, or Safeguard over Helping Hand on Cresselia.
-OR-
3b.Trade MegaVenu for Heatran
Heatran @ Shuca Berry
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 176 HP / 252 SpAtk / 80 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def
- Heat Wave
- Earth Power
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Protect
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 176 HP / 252 SpAtk / 80 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def
- Heat Wave
- Earth Power
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Protect
Please vote Yes/No where appropriate.
example:
I'll give this a couple days.
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