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All Gens Dont use that, use this [RoA Edition]
- Thread starter Typhlito
- Start date
Houndoom is already immune to WoW, though.
Im pretty sure hes trying to say that while his fire typing gives him a burn immunity, having flashfire would punish any gar trying to burn another pokemon in your team such as tar. Just having the opponent know you have flash fire would cause mind games and can possibly keep them from using WoW at all in fear of giving houndoom a boost since a boosted FB can wreck teams if they already lost their bulky water. However, thats easier said than done since the opponent would want to conserve their bulky waters if they see a houndoom since a boost FB can only 3hko them and like bkc already said, its a better idea to have early bird to resist any status gengar has up its sleeves. Its pretty much a 50-50 shot of what status gar is carrying since I dont think they run both because it loves the coverage it gets from 3 attacks.
This literally sums up what I was thinking perfectly. o_O, also it depends on what bulky water your opponent has, since Swamp doesn't really like HP Grass.
Ok, time to put up something a bit more controversial.
ADV
Don't use this:
Salamence @ Leftovers
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Hidden Power Flying
- Earthquake
- Fire Blast
Why it's bad:
By no means is this a bad set. Its a great set however I feel as if its not the best offensive set salamence can run. I mean it just requires 1 turn to set up and sweep, but thats just it. Salamence will not always have the opportunity to set up. The issue is that the standard bulky waters can tank a +1 mence pretty well and can counter with an ice beam. So pretty much, Salamence is forced out unless the opponent's physical walls are weakened significantly. However by that point, its band set can beat them without the need to set up. The only real benefit DDmence is getting is the speed boost to hit pokemon like gengar and raikou.
Instead, use this:
Salamence @ Choice Band
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Hidden Power Flying
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake
- Brick Break
This set just has so much raw power that it can break right through its normal walls with some support. The immediate power is appreciated since salamence will not always get a chance to use dragon dance. Its able to "hit and run" much more effectively than it DD set. Not quite as fast as a jolly mence but its wall breaking capability when its adamant is so good since even the bulky waters are scared to switch in sometimes in fear of getting 2-3hko'd (even though it does get outsped by a couple things when its adamant). A naughty nature works too if you want to use something like fire blast to break fortress and skarmory. Anyway, with the sheer power this set provides, something is bound to get ko'd by it whether its a bulky water switch in or a pokemon getting sacked.
Like I said, both sets are great and work in different ways but I think that overall, band salamence is able to do more for the team due to its immediate power. Most teams are prepared for DDmence so setting up can sometimes end up being a wasted turn.
I'll wait before putting this in the op to see if I'm right about this one or not.
ADV
Don't use this:
Salamence @ Leftovers
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Hidden Power Flying
- Earthquake
- Fire Blast
Why it's bad:
By no means is this a bad set. Its a great set however I feel as if its not the best offensive set salamence can run. I mean it just requires 1 turn to set up and sweep, but thats just it. Salamence will not always have the opportunity to set up. The issue is that the standard bulky waters can tank a +1 mence pretty well and can counter with an ice beam. So pretty much, Salamence is forced out unless the opponent's physical walls are weakened significantly. However by that point, its band set can beat them without the need to set up. The only real benefit DDmence is getting is the speed boost to hit pokemon like gengar and raikou.
Instead, use this:
Salamence @ Choice Band
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Hidden Power Flying
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake
- Brick Break
This set just has so much raw power that it can break right through its normal walls with some support. The immediate power is appreciated since salamence will not always get a chance to use dragon dance. Its able to "hit and run" much more effectively than it DD set. Not quite as fast as a jolly mence but its wall breaking capability when its adamant is so good since even the bulky waters are scared to switch in sometimes in fear of getting 2-3hko'd (even though it does get outsped by a couple things when its adamant). A naughty nature works too if you want to use something like fire blast to break fortress and skarmory. Anyway, with the sheer power this set provides, something is bound to get ko'd by it whether its a bulky water switch in or a pokemon getting sacked.
Like I said, both sets are great and work in different ways but I think that overall, band salamence is able to do more for the team due to its immediate power. Most teams are prepared for DDmence so setting up can sometimes end up being a wasted turn.
I'll wait before putting this in the op to see if I'm right about this one or not.
I wouldn't say this is entirely true, cb mence is more of a wall breaker while dd mence is a late game cleaner, They perform different roles, and therefore I don't think they should be compared in this way. While cb mence is easily the more dangerous set, it's not going to be sweeping all that often, it's a hit and run poke. dd mence on the other hand has the ability to clean up the rest of a weakened team. I'll admit dd mence is a poke i've always found rather underwhelming, but it does have its uses.Ok, time to put up something a bit more controversial.
ADV
Don't use this:
Salamence @ Leftovers
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Hidden Power Flying
- Earthquake
- Fire Blast
Why it's bad:
By no means is this a bad set. Its a great set however I feel as if its not the best offensive set salamence can run. I mean it just requires 1 turn to set up and sweep, but thats just it. Salamence will not always have the opportunity to set up. The issue is that the standard bulky waters can tank a +1 mence pretty well and can counter with an ice beam. So pretty much, Salamence is forced out unless the opponent's physical walls are weakened significantly. However by that point, its band set can beat them without the need to set up. The only real benefit DDmence is getting is the speed boost to hit pokemon like gengar and raikou.
Instead, use this:
Salamence @ Choice Band
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Hidden Power Flying
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake
- Brick Break
This set just has so much raw power that it can break right through its normal walls with some support. The immediate power is appreciated since salamence will not always get a chance to use dragon dance. Its able to "hit and run" much more effectively than it DD set. Not quite as fast as a jolly mence but its wall breaking capability when its adamant is so good since even the bulky waters are scared to switch in sometimes in fear of getting 2-3hko'd (even though it does get outsped by a couple things when its adamant). A naughty nature works too if you want to use something like fire blast to break fortress and skarmory. Anyway, with the sheer power this set provides, something is bound to get ko'd by it whether its a bulky water switch in or a pokemon getting sacked.
Like I said, both sets are great and work in different ways but I think that overall, band salamence is able to do more for the team due to its immediate power. Most teams are prepared for DDmence so setting up can sometimes end up being a wasted turn.
I'll wait before putting this in the op to see if I'm right about this one or not.
I don't really agree with this because they are very different sets, however I agree that CB is more consistent overall. However, I certainly agree with:Ok, time to put up something a bit more controversial.
ADV
Don't use this:
Salamence @ Leftovers
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Hidden Power Flying
- Earthquake
- Fire Blast
Why it's bad:
By no means is this a bad set. Its a great set however I feel as if its not the best offensive set salamence can run. I mean it just requires 1 turn to set up and sweep, but thats just it. Salamence will not always have the opportunity to set up. The issue is that the standard bulky waters can tank a +1 mence pretty well and can counter with an ice beam. So pretty much, Salamence is forced out unless the opponent's physical walls are weakened significantly. However by that point, its band set can beat them without the need to set up. The only real benefit DDmence is getting is the speed boost to hit pokemon like gengar and raikou.
Instead, use this:
Salamence @ Choice Band
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Hidden Power Flying
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake
- Brick Break
This set just has so much raw power that it can break right through its normal walls with some support. The immediate power is appreciated since salamence will not always get a chance to use dragon dance. Its able to "hit and run" much more effectively than it DD set. Not quite as fast as a jolly mence but its wall breaking capability when its adamant is so good since even the bulky waters are scared to switch in sometimes in fear of getting 2-3hko'd (even though it does get outsped by a couple things when its adamant). A naughty nature works too if you want to use something like fire blast to break fortress and skarmory. Anyway, with the sheer power this set provides, something is bound to get ko'd by it whether its a bulky water switch in or a pokemon getting sacked.
Like I said, both sets are great and work in different ways but I think that overall, band salamence is able to do more for the team due to its immediate power. Most teams are prepared for DDmence so setting up can sometimes end up being a wasted turn.
I'll wait before putting this in the op to see if I'm right about this one or not.
ADV
Don't use this:
Salamence @ Leftovers
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Hidden Power Flying
- Earthquake
- Fire Blast
Why it's bad:
It's not a bad set as Fire Blast hits its main counter Skarmory, however it leaves it to be easily walled in general. Skarmory can easily be taken care of by Magneton anyway if you're really worried about that. DD FBlast mence just tries to do too many things at once imo.
Instead, use this:
Salamence @ Lefovers
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Hidden Power Flying
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Dragon Dance
With Rock Slide, DD Mence becomes a lot harder to check. Things like Aerodactyl, Zapdos and even an opponent Salamence can't check you anymore. This set takes full advantage of Salamence's sweeping capabilities and as long as you can eliminate Skarmory and weaken Water types it will be a threat.
The sets should probably be written with the same moves in the same places when drawing a comparison, rather than having to search for what's different.
I've got another one that some may consider controversial, but we'll see.
ADV
Don't use this:
evs: whatever
-whatever
-whatever
-willowisp
-whatever
Why it's bad:
Dusclops on paper looks pretty great, rapid spin blocker that has some actual bulk? count me in! It has the ability to spinblock against starmie which is kinda nice, but all of its drawbacks make this not really worth it. dusclops has no way to threaten anything other than willowisp, which means the opponent gets to choose what takes the wisp. On the flipside, its whole bulk thing isn't even that great. its hp is abysmal, which means even strong neutral attacks do good damage to it, it's weak to both spikes and sand, none of its resistances really do a whole lot for it, as the things that possess the moves it resists have other ways around it, and it has no reliable recovery. Even if you run restalk, it's so slow, and there are so many things that can 3hko it, that it can be really hard to get it back in the game once it goes to sleep. if you can even get it to rest in the first place. These traits combined make it so you're basically playing 5-6, just so you can spinblock starmie and claydol to an extent. I don't think any team needs spikes badly enough to make this worthwhile, especially since there is a decent chance that either, A they don't have a starmie/claydol, or B you can't get spikes up.
Use this instead:
evs: bulky
-thunderbolt
-ice punch
-whatever
-whatever
Why it's better:
Gengar unlike dusclops is fast, and has some pretty great coverage to back up its great spA. This means that not only can it clean up lategame, but also that it actually takes advantage of spikes by forcing switches. It's unpredictable unlike dusclops, it can rely on status moves such as willowisp AND hypnosis to scare off otherwise good counters such as metagross and snorlax, it can increase its coverage with fire punch and giga drain, or even explode/ destiny bond to get a surprise kill on something that was giving its team trouble. This means that it is useful even if spikes don't get down, and that it is even more useful than clops when spikes are up since it actually abuses them. The other huge advantage gar has over dusclops is levitate, which means that even though it is fairly frail, it can actually have greater longevity. Its speed also makes it better at avoiding attacks as it can dish out damage before taking it, unlike dusclops who is always going to have to take an attack to dish out a willowisp. It can't spinblock effectively vs starmie, and claydol is a bit shakey, but thanks to its other advantages, it is by far the superior spin blocker.
ADV
Don't use this:
evs: whatever
-whatever
-whatever
-willowisp
-whatever
Why it's bad:
Dusclops on paper looks pretty great, rapid spin blocker that has some actual bulk? count me in! It has the ability to spinblock against starmie which is kinda nice, but all of its drawbacks make this not really worth it. dusclops has no way to threaten anything other than willowisp, which means the opponent gets to choose what takes the wisp. On the flipside, its whole bulk thing isn't even that great. its hp is abysmal, which means even strong neutral attacks do good damage to it, it's weak to both spikes and sand, none of its resistances really do a whole lot for it, as the things that possess the moves it resists have other ways around it, and it has no reliable recovery. Even if you run restalk, it's so slow, and there are so many things that can 3hko it, that it can be really hard to get it back in the game once it goes to sleep. if you can even get it to rest in the first place. These traits combined make it so you're basically playing 5-6, just so you can spinblock starmie and claydol to an extent. I don't think any team needs spikes badly enough to make this worthwhile, especially since there is a decent chance that either, A they don't have a starmie/claydol, or B you can't get spikes up.
Use this instead:
evs: bulky
-thunderbolt
-ice punch
-whatever
-whatever
Why it's better:
Gengar unlike dusclops is fast, and has some pretty great coverage to back up its great spA. This means that not only can it clean up lategame, but also that it actually takes advantage of spikes by forcing switches. It's unpredictable unlike dusclops, it can rely on status moves such as willowisp AND hypnosis to scare off otherwise good counters such as metagross and snorlax, it can increase its coverage with fire punch and giga drain, or even explode/ destiny bond to get a surprise kill on something that was giving its team trouble. This means that it is useful even if spikes don't get down, and that it is even more useful than clops when spikes are up since it actually abuses them. The other huge advantage gar has over dusclops is levitate, which means that even though it is fairly frail, it can actually have greater longevity. Its speed also makes it better at avoiding attacks as it can dish out damage before taking it, unlike dusclops who is always going to have to take an attack to dish out a willowisp. It can't spinblock effectively vs starmie, and claydol is a bit shakey, but thanks to its other advantages, it is by far the superior spin blocker.
Most modern ADVers seem to pay lip-service to the notion that Dusclops is outclassed. I mean yeah, a lot of teams using him are outdated and Gengar is almost too amazing not to use on all your teams, but Clops has a perfectly valid niche over Gengar.
That said, it's probably good advice to beginners to just use Gengar instead, as he is the better ghost 90% of the time.
That said, it's probably good advice to beginners to just use Gengar instead, as he is the better ghost 90% of the time.
Yeah i can definitely agree with that. I just find that niche is often over rated by many players, and they use dusclops even when it's not entirely necessary for them to spinblock against starmie (or at least not necessary enough to warrant using dusclops). My main gripe is when people use it with forretress, who not only is an unreliable spinner, making dusclops worse, but also prevents starmie from switching in and spinning immediately.