Discussion of Tiers for D/P

[ADH]

Mekkah mentioned this possibility that D/P could merely have three tiers in Uber, Overused, and Underused. I think this would be a great idea as it would eliminate the Borderline tier and allow for a wide variety of Pokemon to be featured in an amazingly large and diverse tier. A lot of Pokemon that were formerly outclassed have had great changes happen to them that makes them unique to their Borderline cousins (like Hypno versus Gardevoir) and it makes things pretty simple. If it's too weak for OU put it in UU instead of having a middle tier.

But this isn't merely about me voicing my opinions, it's about you all getting a say too. I'm not in a position to make anything binding about this poll, but it should guage people's opinions on the matter.

What should the tier structure be in the Diamond and Pearl Metagame?

Choice #1: keep things simple! Uber for those Pokemon that are vastly too powerful for the OU and UU metagames. Overused consists of only the absolute top-tier Pokemon who can compete on a (relatively) even level of capability. Underused is where all the other Pokemon would go to compete with each other, making for a very large and diverse metagame for it.

Choice #2: have a Borderline. I don't want my Grumpig becoming outclassed by Gardevoir in everything except Tricking.

Choice #3: keep it like it was.

 

[Blue Ditto]

I voted keep it like it is, although for the start of the new metagame there's no harm in just having three tiers. I think eventually we'll have to spread it back to the way it originally was configured, seeing as if we shove some things from OU into UU they will dominate and we'll end up never using stuff and...well...some way or another we'll be right back to where we were.

Pointless Edit--The poll closes on my birthday. =DDDD *brick'd*

 

[sanjay120]

I think it should be Ubers/OU/BL/UU. Without two tiers under OU, you're pitting stuff like Delibird and Flareon against Toxicroak and Rampardos.

 

[ADH]

You somehow think that 165 base attack would put Rampardos in UU? Goodness gracious it's too powerful for UU and too powerful for BL to boot, it couldn't be anything but OU despite its horrid defenses.

 

[Footnote]

Not to throw a wrench in your poll, but I'd prefer to try having only two tiers: A legendary tier and a non-legendary tier.

The legendary tier would allow everything, but the non-legendary one would disallow all legendaries and 600-BST Pokémon. The question I have that I don't have the expertise to answer is: would the Legendary tier work, or are Übers so much more powerful than the other legendaries that it wouldn't really pan out?

I know I already expressed this opinion in its own thread once, put since it's exactly the topic of your poll, I thought I'd mention it. Sorry!

 

[The Requiem]

Not like people havent already figured out how to pass it speed or buff it with Sandstorm.

I'm gonna vote for U / OU / UU, keeps the game diversified. BL and NU were pointless to me anyway, especially NU. If you cant use it in UU, just call it OU and be done with it.

 

[thecrazylazyguy]

I think you have to allow those legendaries that arent great like, The regi trio and articuno and moltres and probably entei. If you want people to go along with it because their legendary status does nothing to help their crappy move pool or stat distribution.

 

[ADH]

I think you have to allow those legendaries that arent great like, The regi trio and articuno and moltres and probably entei. If you want people to go along with it because their legendary status does nothing to help their crappy move pool or stat distribution.

While it's not exactly the topic of the poll (exactly) Moltres is a damn good Pokemon who just has an unfortunate weakness to Stealth Rock. Pair it with a spinner and it can still shine. Regirock also gets buffed by Sandstream and is a pretty good Pokemon in of itself.

The legendary versus non-legendary tiers wouldn't work since legendaries in general don't completely outclass other Pokemon with the exception of Celebi and some other grassers, really. That and not all non-legendary Pokemon are created equal. At all.

 

[e4protector]

I think it should be Ubers/OU/BL/UU. Without two tiers under OU, you're pitting stuff like Delibird and Flareon against Toxicroak and Rampardos.

Ramparados made Jumpman's threat list. That alone classes it as OU.

 

[Bliksem]

From a competitive standpoint, Uber, OU, BL and UU. There's no point in an organized NU tier; those Pokemon should try to stand in the UU tier. But I'd prefer just to completely reorganize everything.

 

[Surgo]

Ramparados made Jumpman's threat list. That alone classes it as OU.

...and plenty of other people not understanding what OU means.

OU means overused. It is based entirely on use, not power. Just because something is a 'threat' does not mean it is necessarily OU and vice versa (though not usually vice versa).

 

[Misty]

Jumpman put Rampardos on there mostly for completion's sake, he considers it one of the least threatening Pokemon on the list (as do I).

NU existed in Advance because it had about twenty zillion UU Pokemon. The idea was, the same logic that gave us the UU metagame could give us another viable metagame to play with, by separating out things that weren't even good enough for UU. This wouldn't have worked in RBY, and probably not in GSC either, due to a simple lack of numbers. I'm not clear how well it worked in Advance, but obviously it should work just as well if not better in DP.

BL, though, it a really pointless tier. The only reason for its existence, as far as I can tell, is to make "OU" actually mean something.

Really, though, people seem afraid of change, so I suspect uber/OU/BL/UU/NU will persist.

 

[thecrazylazyguy]

I voted for the second option I dont really see people playing NU often. The BL tier might become large enough to be played on its own and then UU could still be played

 

[Surgo]

I can actually see BL becoming a viable tier now, after it's finally formed. It obviously won't have things like Tyranitar and Gliscor in it, along with most mega threats. Be aware however, that it will take a while to form, as it becomes made up of things that simply strangle the UU game.

 

[ABSOLute]

These tiers create themselves out of necessity, don't they? I think it would be best to let this whole issue work itself out naturally, which is what it's going to do anyway.

 

[Bliksem]

...and plenty of other people not understanding what OU means.

OU means overused. It is based entirely on use, not power. Just because something is a 'threat' does not mean it is necessarily OU and vice versa (though not usually vice versa).

I believe those definitions are merely theorectical, because in practice, power and use aren't mutually exclusive. What seperates Uber from OU? Power. What seperates OU from UU? Power. What seperates BL from UU? Power. There are several UU Pokemon catagorized as such, even though they are powerful enough to work in a tier higher than it. An example I'll cite is the Advanced NU Shedinja, which worked in ubers occassionally.

If we want to go by use, Jolteon shouldn't be in the same tier as Zapdos, the latter seeing *far* more use once it gained Baton Pass. I haven't seen a Slaking ever (I didn't play 200s), yet apparently that's an OU Pokemon, too.

 

[Jumpman16]

Can we stop talking about tiers and changing/adding some for one second before the game is actually out, sheesh

 

[Glen]

I dont really see people playing NU often.

what the hell does that matter? if people want to play nu, they will play nu. there is pretty much no reason not to make a nu tier.

additionally, LISTEN TO JUMPMAN. christ. this is just like the preemptive clausing of tyranitar; its STUPID. wait until the game comes out. its not a rush. its not like the fifth gen is coming out next year so we gotta hurry up and develop a metagame. things will happen as they happen, just chill the fuck out.

 

[Footnote]

Can we stop talking about tiers and changing/adding some for one second before the game is actually out, sheesh

Awww, let us have our fun. Once the games come out, it'll be decided through actual play. This is just part of the anticipation. The simple fact that there are so many responses to this thread tells me that people have an interest in guessing. If people have an interest in guessing, why not let them guess?

On a side note, you don't need a UU 'tier' to make good use out of your favorite Pokémon. That's what Double Battles are for! In a 1v1 UU tier, these Pokémon can compete because they're against others that can't handle standard play, but in 2v2 they have a chance to shine!

Take Grumpig as an example. Gardevoir may outclass it in Single Battles, but it has Own Tempo. Use Flatter on it in a Double Battle and watch it go! If Serebii.net can be believed, Flatter now Raises Sp. Attack by two levels instead of one.

Slow mixed attackers like Camerupt and Cacturne are complete monsters once they have some Fake Out or Follow Me support.

GameFreak seems to have put a lot of effort into making Double Battles in D/P more balanced and fun. I think they deserve another shot. Anybody who likes using UU Pokémon will probably really get to like 2v2 after they get used to the different strategy.

 

[Surgo]

I believe those definitions are merely theorectical, because in practice, power and use aren't mutually exclusive.

That's correct, there is often a correlation. However, overused IS entirely based on use; the faux tiers of Advance (Uber and Borderline) are based on power, to keep things like Moltres out of UU. If you disagree on something's use, there are threads for that on their respective boards such as Ever Grande City.

 

[Forsety]

I honestly wonder why you can't just rename the tiers?

Borderline I feel is unneccessary. Simply change that to Standard.

Something like 00ber, (Not sure of a name, maybe High Standard), Standard, NU. Would make far more sense overall.

See UU is UU because of the fact they're not fully competitive, but with so many powerups and so many to use in D/P it makes me wonder whether there is any difference between BL and UU anymore.

Also its always bugged me in general that Slaking was always considered OU on basis of power alone when no sane person would actually use it. Overused becomes almost novelty or a oxymoron as a phrase to describe it.

 

[Zenigame]

I'd say Uber, OU, UU, NU. You can't have really good UU pokemon facing really good NU pokemon. Beautifly vs. Shuckle.

 

[Nolando VII]

I voted for the thrid option to keep it as it is... In my opinion, there are just too many pokemon at this point to keep them to only three or four tiers. The more tiers, the easier to use a pokemon within its given tier. The less tiers, as said before, you get stuck with some pokemon being stuck as too bad to be very good in their tier but still too powerful to move down a tier.

I think the current tiers work fine. Don't fix what isn't broken.

 

[Railith]

I really don't see anything wrong with teirs so let them stay the same.

 

[CZ]

My opinion is unique. Current tiers are based on usage, therefore representing power. I think an option (may not be the best) is to design a tier system based on power, based on imput from all walks of players. This could be based on the factors of Stat Total and Distribution, Trait, Movepool, and typing.
Ubers-Have extreme Stat Totals, Movepools, Traits, and Typing.
Examples: Mewtwo (Stat Totals/Distribution, Movepool), Wobbuffet (Trait/Stat Distribution) Arceus (All Of The Above)
High Power-Have good base stats that are well distributed, movepools that can back up the stat distribution, traits that are effective, and typing that doesnt screw them over.
Examples: Gengar (Stat Distribution/Movepool/Trait), Garchomp (Stats/Movepool), Salamence (Stats/Movepool)
Medium Power-Have workable base stats, decent movepools, traits, and typing that may hinder them
Examples: Muk (Stat Distribution/Movepool good, but not great), Pinsir (Same as Muk)
Low Power-Poor Stats, small movepools, ect.
Examples: Farfetched (Bad News), Quilfish (Sorry, cheif)

Each Pokemon could be rated by the masses, and a general home found for each.