SS Doubles OU Cinderace Doubles team

I haven't been to into competitive since gen 6 and even then it was only a little bit. I wanted to focus on Cinderace for my doubles team. I've done ok with it, making rank 6, but It has stagnated. ANy advice to make the team more cohesive?

Cinderace (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Pyro Ball
- Sucker punch
- U-turn
- Zen headbutt

Cinderace is here as the main star, Normally I lead with him and dragapult, dynamaxing drgapult to use max fire to set up the sun so that the sun boosted, choice banded pyro ball will do insane amounts of damage. Biggest problem this faces is when the leads have a major advantage to fire, either resisting them, or super effecting cinderace. Sucker punch is for dragapult, zen headbutt is for toxapex, U-turn if for luidicolo and other times when I need to swap.
Dragapult (M) @ Life orb
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 Sp. Atk / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Thunder Bolt
- Fire blast
- Shadow ball

Dragapult is my dynamax mon, he sets up the sun, and from there uses max phantasm for lowering defense so pyro ball or whatever I'm choiced into does more damage. Thunderbolt is for Gyrados and other water types that cinderace can't take down.

From there the rest of the team is sort of made to counter other teams. These pokemon I have because Rain teams, and Trick room teams were pretty hard, one is filler (Lucario) and two are meant to take on dracovish, if theres anyway to re work these mons to fit better overall please do.

Lucario (M) @ Black belt
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Bullet punch
- Close Combat
- Meteor mash
- Protect

Lucario is mostly left overs from when I tried to make Wolfeys team that he posed on youtube. It doesn't really fit well with the team and its item is all thats left over after giving everything else life orb and choice items.

Gastrodon (F) @ left overs
Ability: Storm drain
EVs: 252 HP/108 Def/148 SpD
Quiet Nature
- Recover
- Earth Power
- Scald
- Protect

Gastrodons here for taking those water oves cinderace can't stand, and in particular take on dracovish,the vish can't even touch gastrodon, or his teammates while gastrodons alive, and his stall set is made for just that, to stay alive for as long as possible. He can't do much back except burn vish, but it's a good wall and it's worked so far. Its secondary purpose is a counter to rain teams alongside lapras, and is a slow mon to work against trick room teams.

Ferrothorn (F) @ Rocky helmet
Ability: iron barbs
EVs: 252 HP/24 Def/232 SpD
Brave Nature
- Gyro ball
- Knock off
- power whip
- Leech seed

There are probably better counters to add for a trick room team, but ahtterene was the most common trick room setter so ferrothorn coming in with gyro ball was one of my options. Not alot to say, I also needed something for other gastrodon and water ground types.
Lapras (F) @ Choice specs
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP/ 252 Sp.Atk
Modest Nature
- Freeze dry
- Ice beam
- Body slam
- Hydro pump

A secondary counter to dracovish, and the only reason I run gastrodon along with lapras for this reason is water absorb doesn't draw in moves. Freeze dry one shots dracovish, ludicolo, gyrados, and pelipper. Body slam is a filler move, and ice beam and hydro pump, I mainly bring lapras for trick room teams, rain teams and any team running a gyrados.

SO it could use major improvements. Like I feel sucker punch hasn't been helping me much and I could replace it with high jump kick. But this team feels like a mish mash to counter too many teams and spread to thin. My main plan of setting up the sun to pryo ball everything to death doesn't stand very well on its own, especially if cinerace gets taken down to quickly. I tend to attack the same target dragapult aimed the max fire move at to make sure it goes down. I'm ok with you restructuring the whole team if need be.
 

Platinum God n1n1

the real n1n1
is a Tiering Contributor
Hi there, I've taken a shot at improving this team for you. To start with I wanted to remove the double Steel + double Water combo.
Lucario is very underwhelming, it's only real niche is as a Beat+Up gimmick mon. On the other hand Ferrothorn is one of the best Grass types and one of the best Steel types. Ferrothorn also does decent versus Dracovish, so I dont think Gastrodon+Lapras is warranted here. Lapras-Gmax is one of the best, arguably the best Gmax form mon. You should give it a try (I'll post an importable below), but since you said you like to use Dragapult as the Dynamax mon, I decided to remove Lapras and leave Gastrodon

Cinderace (M) @ Charcoal
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Pyro Ball
- Sucker Punch
- U-turn
- Protect

Dragapult (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Shadow Ball
- Protect

Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Power Whip
- Gyro Ball
- Leech Seed
- Protect

Gastrodon @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Storm Drain
EVs: 232 HP / 176 Def / 48 SpA / 52 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Muddy Water
- Earth Power
- Clear Smog
- Recover

Tyranitar @ Assault Vest
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpA
Brave Nature
- Rock Slide
- Snarl
- Heavy Slam
- Breaking Swipe

Mew @ Wiki Berry
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Trick Room
- Transform
- Volt Switch
- Life Dew

Cinderace
I do not think Choice Band is a good option for Cinderace. I feel like you need to have protect on more of these offensive mons. Since you'll be clicking Pyro Ball like 75% of the time, I went with Charcoal for the item. You could use also try out Life Orb or Expert Belt.

Dragapult
Like Cinderace, I think 3 moves+Protect is by far the best set. I do see how Thunder Bolt can be nice to have versus Gyarados and Bravery but, double targeting them with Draco Meteor should be enough. These 3 moves are pretty much the standard on Special Dragapult.

Ferrothorn
Should absolutely have Protect to take advantage of its ability to passively stall out games with Leech Seed and so teammates who remove fire types can get in place. Left Overs is definitely the best item for Ferrothorn, physical types already do not want to hit it unless they can kill it or get it in range to be killed, Rocky Helmet hasn't been good since Gen6 when it was used as a Mega-Kang check. I prefer to dump max EVs into attack because it is already super bulky, however if you prefer to run it more defensive that is also fine.

Gastrodon
I've changed the EVs to give it some more offensive presence. Like Ferrothorn it is already super bulky and has the ability to recover, so I prefer to put some EVs into SpA. I also removed Protect and replaced it with Clear Smog. Given how common set up sweepers are in this gen, Clear Smog can be very useful. In both the replays below I make good use of the move.

With the last 2 slots open, here is the check list of what I thought was still needed
  • Speed Control - with Ferrothorn and Gastrodon, making this team a Semi-Room makes the most sense.
  • Counter to Torkoal - with Gastrodon being the only mon with super effective moves against Fires, Torkoal could be a major problem.
  • Super Effective moves against Gyarados and Birds
Tyranitar
The best Torkoal check in the game and another solid Fire type check to assist Ferrothorn. I am using a pretty unorthodox set, but it has worked great for me. You can see in both of the replays that I make use of Breaking Swipe and Snarl. With Avest in the sand it is incredibly bulky and with 4 moves it has very nice coverage. I think it makes a solid partner for Mew as well, most Ghost Types have poor match-up against Tyranitar.

Mew
Finishing off the team with Mew as a bulky Trick Room setter and Life Dew support. Running Max speed because this is a Semi-Room team and there will be times when you want to get off a Transform or Life Dew before your opponent moves. Volt Switch is a nifty 4th move, although its not that powerful it adds some missing coverage and another way to pivot.


Replays
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8doublesou-1030731173
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8doublesou-1030734415

This team will have some problems against Tailwind teams if you are unable to get Trick Room set, so that is key.
I did not want to change too many mons but considered removing Ferrothorn and replacing with Rotom-Mow and Tailwind Corviknight (remove Mew (probably TTar too) if you do this). Also I think Cinderace+Dragapult could work well on a sand team with Ttar+Excadrill.

Here is the Lapras set you may want to try
Lapras-Gmax @ Light Clay
Ability: Shell Armor
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Brine / Hydro Pump
- Freeze-Dry
- Thunderbolt
- Life Dew
 
Hi there, I've taken a shot at improving this team for you. To start with I wanted to remove the double Steel + double Water combo.
Lucario is very underwhelming, it's only real niche is as a Beat+Up gimmick mon. On the other hand Ferrothorn is one of the best Grass types and one of the best Steel types. Ferrothorn also does decent versus Dracovish, so I dont think Gastrodon+Lapras is warranted here. Lapras-Gmax is one of the best, arguably the best Gmax form mon. You should give it a try (I'll post an importable below), but since you said you like to use Dragapult as the Dynamax mon, I decided to remove Lapras and leave Gastrodon

Cinderace (M) @ Charcoal
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Pyro Ball
- Sucker Punch
- U-turn
- Protect

Dragapult (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Shadow Ball
- Protect

Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Power Whip
- Gyro Ball
- Leech Seed
- Protect

Gastrodon @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Storm Drain
EVs: 232 HP / 176 Def / 48 SpA / 52 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Muddy Water
- Earth Power
- Clear Smog
- Recover

Tyranitar @ Assault Vest
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpA
Brave Nature
- Rock Slide
- Snarl
- Heavy Slam
- Breaking Swipe

Mew @ Wiki Berry
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Trick Room
- Transform
- Volt Switch
- Life Dew

Cinderace
I do not think Choice Band is a good option for Cinderace. I feel like you need to have protect on more of these offensive mons. Since you'll be clicking Pyro Ball like 75% of the time, I went with Charcoal for the item. You could use also try out Life Orb or Expert Belt.

Dragapult
Like Cinderace, I think 3 moves+Protect is by far the best set. I do see how Thunder Bolt can be nice to have versus Gyarados and Bravery but, double targeting them with Draco Meteor should be enough. These 3 moves are pretty much the standard on Special Dragapult.

Ferrothorn
Should absolutely have Protect to take advantage of its ability to passively stall out games with Leech Seed and so teammates who remove fire types can get in place. Left Overs is definitely the best item for Ferrothorn, physical types already do not want to hit it unless they can kill it or get it in range to be killed, Rocky Helmet hasn't been good since Gen6 when it was used as a Mega-Kang check. I prefer to dump max EVs into attack because it is already super bulky, however if you prefer to run it more defensive that is also fine.

Gastrodon
I've changed the EVs to give it some more offensive presence. Like Ferrothorn it is already super bulky and has the ability to recover, so I prefer to put some EVs into SpA. I also removed Protect and replaced it with Clear Smog. Given how common set up sweepers are in this gen, Clear Smog can be very useful. In both the replays below I make good use of the move.

With the last 2 slots open, here is the check list of what I thought was still needed
  • Speed Control - with Ferrothorn and Gastrodon, making this team a Semi-Room makes the most sense.
  • Counter to Torkoal - with Gastrodon being the only mon with super effective moves against Fires, Torkoal could be a major problem.
  • Super Effective moves against Gyarados and Birds
Tyranitar
The best Torkoal check in the game and another solid Fire type check to assist Ferrothorn. I am using a pretty unorthodox set, but it has worked great for me. You can see in both of the replays that I make use of Breaking Swipe and Snarl. With Avest in the sand it is incredibly bulky and with 4 moves it has very nice coverage. I think it makes a solid partner for Mew as well, most Ghost Types have poor match-up against Tyranitar.

Mew
Finishing off the team with Mew as a bulky Trick Room setter and Life Dew support. Running Max speed because this is a Semi-Room team and there will be times when you want to get off a Transform or Life Dew before your opponent moves. Volt Switch is a nifty 4th move, although its not that powerful it adds some missing coverage and another way to pivot.


Replays
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8doublesou-1030731173
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8doublesou-1030734415

This team will have some problems against Tailwind teams if you are unable to get Trick Room set, so that is key.
I did not want to change too many mons but considered removing Ferrothorn and replacing with Rotom-Mow and Tailwind Corviknight (remove Mew (probably TTar too) if you do this). Also I think Cinderace+Dragapult could work well on a sand team with Ttar+Excadrill.

Here is the Lapras set you may want to try
Lapras-Gmax @ Light Clay
Ability: Shell Armor
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Brine / Hydro Pump
- Freeze-Dry
- Thunderbolt
- Life Dew
Thank you.
Just a few questions, why trick room with mew? Doesn't that hurt cinderace and dragapult? Or is that only for tail wind teams to counter them? When do you recommend using transform with mew? What about dynamaxs?
 

Yuichi

umu!
is a Forum Moderatoris a Smogon Discord Contributor Alumnus
Thank you.
Just a few questions, why trick room with mew? Doesn't that hurt cinderace and dragapult? Or is that only for tail wind teams to counter them? When do you recommend using transform with mew? What about dynamaxs?
Trick Room in this case will mainly be for reversing your opponent's Trick Room since conventional Trick Room checks such as Taunt, Phazing etc do not work against Hatterne + Redirector
 
Hi there, I've taken a shot at improving this team for you. To start with I wanted to remove the double Steel + double Water combo.
Lucario is very underwhelming, it's only real niche is as a Beat+Up gimmick mon. On the other hand Ferrothorn is one of the best Grass types and one of the best Steel types. Ferrothorn also does decent versus Dracovish, so I dont think Gastrodon+Lapras is warranted here. Lapras-Gmax is one of the best, arguably the best Gmax form mon. You should give it a try (I'll post an importable below), but since you said you like to use Dragapult as the Dynamax mon, I decided to remove Lapras and leave Gastrodon

Cinderace (M) @ Charcoal
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Pyro Ball
- Sucker Punch
- U-turn
- Protect

Dragapult (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Shadow Ball
- Protect

Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Power Whip
- Gyro Ball
- Leech Seed
- Protect

Gastrodon @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Storm Drain
EVs: 232 HP / 176 Def / 48 SpA / 52 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Muddy Water
- Earth Power
- Clear Smog
- Recover

Tyranitar @ Assault Vest
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpA
Brave Nature
- Rock Slide
- Snarl
- Heavy Slam
- Breaking Swipe

Mew @ Wiki Berry
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Trick Room
- Transform
- Volt Switch
- Life Dew

Cinderace
I do not think Choice Band is a good option for Cinderace. I feel like you need to have protect on more of these offensive mons. Since you'll be clicking Pyro Ball like 75% of the time, I went with Charcoal for the item. You could use also try out Life Orb or Expert Belt.

Dragapult
Like Cinderace, I think 3 moves+Protect is by far the best set. I do see how Thunder Bolt can be nice to have versus Gyarados and Bravery but, double targeting them with Draco Meteor should be enough. These 3 moves are pretty much the standard on Special Dragapult.

Ferrothorn
Should absolutely have Protect to take advantage of its ability to passively stall out games with Leech Seed and so teammates who remove fire types can get in place. Left Overs is definitely the best item for Ferrothorn, physical types already do not want to hit it unless they can kill it or get it in range to be killed, Rocky Helmet hasn't been good since Gen6 when it was used as a Mega-Kang check. I prefer to dump max EVs into attack because it is already super bulky, however if you prefer to run it more defensive that is also fine.

Gastrodon
I've changed the EVs to give it some more offensive presence. Like Ferrothorn it is already super bulky and has the ability to recover, so I prefer to put some EVs into SpA. I also removed Protect and replaced it with Clear Smog. Given how common set up sweepers are in this gen, Clear Smog can be very useful. In both the replays below I make good use of the move.

With the last 2 slots open, here is the check list of what I thought was still needed
  • Speed Control - with Ferrothorn and Gastrodon, making this team a Semi-Room makes the most sense.
  • Counter to Torkoal - with Gastrodon being the only mon with super effective moves against Fires, Torkoal could be a major problem.
  • Super Effective moves against Gyarados and Birds
Tyranitar
The best Torkoal check in the game and another solid Fire type check to assist Ferrothorn. I am using a pretty unorthodox set, but it has worked great for me. You can see in both of the replays that I make use of Breaking Swipe and Snarl. With Avest in the sand it is incredibly bulky and with 4 moves it has very nice coverage. I think it makes a solid partner for Mew as well, most Ghost Types have poor match-up against Tyranitar.

Mew
Finishing off the team with Mew as a bulky Trick Room setter and Life Dew support. Running Max speed because this is a Semi-Room team and there will be times when you want to get off a Transform or Life Dew before your opponent moves. Volt Switch is a nifty 4th move, although its not that powerful it adds some missing coverage and another way to pivot.


Replays
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8doublesou-1030731173
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8doublesou-1030734415

This team will have some problems against Tailwind teams if you are unable to get Trick Room set, so that is key.
I did not want to change too many mons but considered removing Ferrothorn and replacing with Rotom-Mow and Tailwind Corviknight (remove Mew (probably TTar too) if you do this). Also I think Cinderace+Dragapult could work well on a sand team with Ttar+Excadrill.

Here is the Lapras set you may want to try
Lapras-Gmax @ Light Clay
Ability: Shell Armor
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Brine / Hydro Pump
- Freeze-Dry
- Thunderbolt
- Life Dew
Also if I went with rotom and corviknight, what sets would you recommend for them?
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top