With Ice Punch and Thunderpunch it costs it a moveslot. It can do both with Rock Slide.
I'm more worried about the switch in, where it 2hko's iirc.
Okay then I say we should move Blizzard, Sky Uppercut, and Force Palm into the allowed list. Almost every Pokemon get's Ice Beam/Blizzard so why not CAP6. Sky Uppercut for a more reliable stab move than Cross Chop for defensive sets and Force Palm because of it's paralysis effect.
Don't really get the reasoning with Gyarados here. Even without Stone Edge, the threat of ThunderPunch should keep in from switching in. In addition to that, CAP6 resists Waterfall, Ice Fang and Stone Edge, and stops Dragon Dancing (for attack), leaving Gyarados with not many options: either go with a gimmicky Bounce-set, or with Earthquake. So, I don't see why anyone would attempt to use Gyarados as a CAP6-counter, even if it doesn't get Stone Edge: It can still be threatened by ThunderPunch, and there are much better options than a Gyarados that while not being threatened by CAP6's other moves, can't do much in return, such as Zapdos, which itself can stall out Stone Edge's four uses with Roost and then finish it off. Thus, I would support Stone Edge.
The reasoning is Intimidate, plus the threat of Earthquake. In order for it to run Thunderpunch, CAP 6 would have to give up another slot really.
Or we could just move Ice Punch, Thunder Punch, Stone Edge, and Rock Slide to allowed and be done with this. There...everyone get's what they want for Chirstmas.
Do I really need to answer this question? This is starting to look like an all or nothing deal between Thunder Punch and these damn Bulky waters. Either you have Thunder Punch and make people cry over the death of their precious bulky water or don't and get caught into this cycle of "I get cock blocked by my own kind" deal ever other Water pokemon sterotypical have to deal with. If they're a middle ground between this I like to hear it.
I don't think this is necessary as I am all for Thunderpunch making the allowed moves list but if Thunderpunch was not allowed then Wood Hammer or Needle Arm would be quite handy for Water coverage. The only trouble is both names are so full of flavour that most people would be uncomfortable about adding them. If anything they should go on the contraversial list.
No. First off, competitive moves shouldn't be chosen because "the art supports it". This is a comptitive project, and as much as people don't want to admit it, art is secondary to any competitive part. Besides that, it's way too powerful. I think we should just screw Thunderpunch, but nobody would go for that, and its only 75 base power.
..Which it can do. While not being its best option, it's usable, and will hit Gyarados for massive damage. Meanwhile, all Gyarados can do is Earthquake it, whereas Pokemon like Celebi, Jirachi, Zapdos, Starmie, Metagross, Brozong, Azelf, and Rotom-A can do more to CAP6. So, I don't see the reason to switch in a Gyarados to it, risking the possibility of it getting KO'd by Thunderpunch and only being able to Earthquake in return, when there are many options for Pokemon that can do more to it. Intimidate is nice, and something that I admitably didn't consider, but Gyarados still wouldn't be something that I would switch into it, when there are plenty of other options that can do more to it. Yes, Gyarados usually would be able to do the job without Stone Edge, but it would hardly if ever be used to do so, due to many better options existing.
Using the most used Gyarados set, let's see if Gyarados can threaten this fellow with just Earthquake alone.
Yay for Thunderpunch supporter and if you're soo worried about flavor issues (which shouldn't be the main consider towards this project) you could always suggest Seed Bomb? It's a Tutor move so no worries about taking up precious movepool space. It's 80 BP so it's not too strong like Wood Hammer but not too weak like Needle Arm. It also allow Tentacruel and Gyarados to stay within the game of potent checks.
Ah, I see the point you were trying to get at now. However, I have a hard time seeing the game becoming more stable with just CAP6 and Gyarados being more common. It isn't just Strata, Gyara, and CAP6 in this cycle however, Strata becoming more common will emphasize the current stratagies and trends we currently have, and if CAP6 is meant to counter them, the usage and how much it does so would not be as much as if Gyarados were not present increasing the usage of Strata and friends.
well, the best thing about introducing a new pokemon is that all the other pokemon will be exactly the same. sarcasm aside i see bounce was added to gyarados' movepool in platinum, and with it can immediately threaten cap6 (nearly ohkoing max hp/def variants). the plus on this is that even if cap6 switches out, the incoming pokemon is threatened with being hit with 30% paralysis attack.gothic togekiss said:
Provided that the move actually contact with something. 85% accuracy seem pretty shaky to reliable on but then Stone Edge has 80% accuracy itself so it's probably a moot point.
Fixed because Shock Wave, Charge Beam, Thunder Fang, and Spark means all Bulky Waters are done for despite their weak BP.
I'm sorry but some actual reasoning wouldn't go amiss.
Well...not 100% correct. Majority of the Bulky Waters are 3HKO'd by a neutral Cross Chop, some a slim chance of a 2HKO. Thunder Punch generally 2HKO's majority of them without worrying about not having SR support.
Surely neutral Cross Chop of 100BP --> STAB --> 150BP is the same as Thunderpunch 75BP --> It's Super Effective! --> 150BP. They're the same damage on a Water type aren't they?
Don't be upset PO. It's not a good idea to give CAPs perfect coverage and Swords Dance and Nasty Plot, even if they only have a Quite Good rating. The restrictions on movepool are based around the counters discussion which is a good thing as it means what we envisaged countering it Actually counters it.
Alright, after further testing (Well...not testing since I only used Suicune for it) I found that a SE ThunderPunch and a Neurtal Cross Chop would generally do the same amount of damage. I'll would do more testing but it's tiring trying to remember every single Bulky Water EV spreads.
I'll would do some calc on those as well
...Which means that T-Punch is just for Gyarados and Starmie, as I thought?
