CAP 5 CAP 5 - Ability Discussion Thread

[FlygonRuler]

I dont understand how detached limbs is anymore broken than levitate...


I like the idea of something like Magic Guard. Perhaps I'm stretching it but doesn't it look a little mystical and alien like? Just throwing something else out there :)

 

[Darth Meanie]

Magic Guard means no self recoil or life orb recoil, as well as ignoring toxic and burn damage, sandstorm, spikes, toxic spikes, confusion, etc.

I both love and fear the idea of LO Magic Guard Mixed set w/ head smash, but its mostly fear, I mean that would be pretty hard to keep from being broken.

 

[tennisace]

Throwing out the idea of Mountaineer, its a rock type this time. It's kinda useless, but Rock doesn't resist Rock.

 

[Mario With Lasers]

Magic Guard means no self recoil or life orb recoil, as well as ignoring toxic and burn damage, sandstorm, spikes, toxic spikes, confusion, etc.

I both love and fear the idea of LO Magic Guard Mixed set w/ head smash, but its mostly fear, I mean that would be pretty hard to keep from being broken.

60 Base Attack.

 

[Itchni]

Creating specialize would make rockmon able to have any attack that we want to give him. Technician or adaptibility dont fit very well.

 

[Goodbar]

I dunno, does it really seem like a mountaineer? I dunno when I think of this think I think of it as some kind of volcano derived rock magnetized thing. Note that magnetite, which I guess is one of the most magnetic minerals, is contained in most igneous rocks (I looked it up after G_T mentioned it lol)

 

[Not Scicky]

Well, it does have ice-pick like claws, so yeah, it kinda seems like a mountaineer :S

 

[Gothic Togekiss]

Why do you want to create ANOTHER new ability that much?

I do agree, another new ability just after Fidgit seem plenty fanboyish and unnecessary. Like what Latino said, they're like 12+ existing abilities that fit this creature. Speaking of abilities, with Goodbar's statement Magnet Pull gets even more justification to be on this monster.

 

[RobertM]

I'm against magnet-pull because it puts magnezone out of a job =/

 

[Goodbar]

it'd be such a huge check on heatran, and magnezone, a lot of things...like arena trap i'm pretty scared of magnet pull. It'd mean we can't give it stat boosting moves anyways, just think about it setting up on heatran while it fruitlessly shoots nve fire moves at it('s boosted spdef)...
Atyroki - some magnetic entities can't be bothered to wake up at 6 am =[

 

[Not Scicky]

We're planning to give this thing earth power and flamethrower right? (Or even just earth power and it'd still be a dick, just give it HP fire)

So steel types are pretty much fucked if this thing got magnet pull :S

 

[Yamaha]

CAP 5 is not bulky when Magnezone is. Magnezone gets Thunderbolt.
Magnezone trades its speed for defensive and still have excellent sp. attack like CAP 5. But Magnezone is Steel/Electric giving it advantages while CAP 5 is just Rock-typing.

 

[Mario With Lasers]

I'm not doing calcs right now, but I don't think Rockmon will like taking STAB Fire Blasts on its ugly face. Even if they're resisted. And, if you're counting with Sandstorm, I'm counting with Flash Fire. And Specs. And a Critical Hit (okay, that's enough).

And why would we give it Earth Power? I'm not going to accept the Dynamicpunch Wooperl logic here, but I won't say "I can't see this bugger using it" either. I really want to know why would it learn it. Hidden Power Ground would be enough, but no poll-jumping, so whatever.

And why don't we give it Slow Start? :D

 

[Not Scicky]

Thunderbolt is really only good for skarmory :S

Earth Power is good for alot of things, and what it's not good for, HP Fire/Flamethrower can take care of :S

@Arael: Maybe because literally EVERY rock type gets earth power now?

 

[Gothic Togekiss]

I'm against magnet-pull because it puts magnezone out of a job =/

How does adding Magnet Pull onto a Rock type cause Maggy to lose his job? Maggyzone has 115 defense and a ton of resistances, Rockmon had only 65 defense and is weak to the thing it's trapping aka Steel type moves. Granted Maggy doesn't have 130 speed, but that wouldn't matter when you still fear two definite Steel type (Meta and Scizor). We can already justify how this creature can get Magnet Pull, hell there's already a existing Rock type with it. The only thing we need to ask is if you're ready for it.

I'm not doing calcs right now, but I don't think Rockmon will like taking STAB Fire Blasts on its ugly face. Even if they're resisted. And, if you're counting with Sandstorm, I'm counting with Flash Fire. And Specs. And a Critical Hit (okay, that's enough).

If we're not counting for anything but their stats, no boost or anything we have:

Modest Heatran Fire Blast: 44.86% - 52.96%
Timid Heatran Fire Blast: 40.81% - 48.29%

.....Okay, extra cautious towards Heatran as well lol

 

[hinode]

And why would we give it Earth Power? I'm not going to accept the Dynamicpunch Wooperl logic here, but I won't say "I can't see this bugger using it" either. I really want to know why would it learn it. Hidden Power Ground would be enough, but no poll-jumping, so whatever.

Every Rock type gets Earth Power in Platinum. I mean all of them, even the ones with crappy Special Attack that'll never use it. Unless there's overwhelmingly good reason to break this precedence, I don't see any reason to deny this EP.

Edit: Oh, and if you want to use "breaking the mold" as a counterargument here, I'd say that being able to make use of Earth Power is breaking the mold in itself. =/ I think Tyranitar and Omastar are the only Rocks to get any use out of it currently?

Back on topic, I think that any new ability should contribute significantly towards a CAP's ability to perform its job properly, and in a way that no existing ability can compare. Persistent makes Tailwind/Trick Room/Gravity more usable in a fundamentally unique way, Mountaineer saves Syclant from being totally boned by SR on the switchin. If we want a marginal ability, we've got plenty of existing ones to choose from. If we want one more immunity for easier switchins, we have several to choose from without having to go through the trouble of making one up.

 

[Not Scicky]

Using "breaking the mold" as an arguement sucks as well, as every rock
type also gets ancient power, and by that logic this thing shouldn't T_T

 

[DougJustDoug]

It's fine to mention moves if you are supporting a point about an ability. But, if you are posting exclusively to mention a move, or to argue with someone purely about moves, then you are off-topic. Several recent posts have become way too focused on arguments about moves. Let's keep this discussion about abilities, please.

 

[Krow]

I dont understand how detached limbs is anymore broken than levitate...

I never said Levitate wasn't broken? I hate not being able to hit Gengar after he magicly OHKOs my only pokemon capable of hitting him.

 

[Not Scicky]

Just because you don't like it doesn't make it broken :S

@Doug: It kinda trailed off, but we WERE talking about magnet pull :S

 

[FlygonRuler]

Magic Guard means no self recoil or life orb recoil, as well as ignoring toxic and burn damage, sandstorm, spikes, toxic spikes, confusion, etc.

I both love and fear the idea of LO Magic Guard Mixed set w/ head smash, but its mostly fear, I mean that would be pretty hard to keep from being broken.

why with head smash? Thats physical. But I mean Magic Guard gives this guy plenty of easy ways to switch in while allowing us to stray away from fanboy abilities.

I dont like Magnet Pull...Think...out of all the pokemon that have it, which ones aren't steel? Out of all the pokemon that have flash fire, which ones aren't fire? Out of all the pokemon that have Chloryphyll, which ones aren't grass...Its kinda common sense.

 

[darkie]

Nosepass in ADV was pure Rock and had Magnet Pull/Sturdy. At the time it was exactly 50% of all fully evolved pokemon with Magnet Pull, Magneton was just more popular.

 

[LightWolf]

Detached Limbs would be too broken, though if you nerfed it to a 50% damage drop, it'd be like heatproof, and not broken.

Crosshair X is... like a Life Orb without the damage every turn? It sounds good but, the reason Life Orb is so popular is because it's balanced, you get more power, for less and less health.

Sticky Claws would ruin this pokemon's sweaping potential by making it a majior suicide lead or something like that. It will propably have explosion, because most rock types do, so; "explode, drop your stats, free SD / NP turn for whatever poke."

Sniper is an all around good idea, nothing to really comment about it.

Levitate Would make it feel unbalanced in a bit, because it'd be able to take those crucial ground hits, so it could easily kill a Mamoswine that doesn't have Ice Shard.

You say that an ability that makes him get the 1/4 of the immunity of a Ghost is less balanced than Levitate which gives a full immunity to Ground.

First we want to still Break the Mold so I don't think that it will get Explosion, and as many stated it won't work with Explosion and other moves where you KO yourself. Its stats won't really let it take hits, but if it has no choice other than to die, as you have nothing to switch to it's time to get in a last hit and lower its attack.

And now look at our good old friend Gengar who got Levitate. It has 3 Immunities which helps it to switch in, and sweep. If this gets Detached Limbs or Levitate it will make switching in easier, without SS you will take to high damage on switch in.

As for Cross Hair X I will change it to 1.2 boost stacking with item boosts, and not only on SE targets.

 

[Gothic Togekiss]

Because I go on to reply to someone's post I like to remind everyone of Doug's words.

I'm all for flavor where it makes sense, but remember that flavor is a secondary concern on this project. Our primary goal is to make a COMPETITIVE Pokemon. Not because flavor isn't important, but flavor can't be argued, investigated, or proven. Flavor is almost completely ambiguous. It's interesting to toss out cute ideas and "Wouldn't it be neat if..." comments. But, let's keep it in perspective. There's no point in agonizing over typing, stats, and movepool -- just to give this some bullshit ability.

I don't like Magnet Pull...Think...out of all the Pokemon that have it, which ones aren't steel?

Nosepass has Magnet Pull, and with him it proves that they're a pre-existing Pokemon that has Magnet Pull that's isn't steel type. Flavor wise, it's really easy to justify how rocks could have a magnetic pulse flowing within it, thus allow it to use electrical and magnetic moves and/or abilities. Now if you have a more competitive view on why it shouldn't get Magnet Pull then I'm all ears.

 

[Darth Meanie]

why with head smash? Thats physical. But I mean Magic Guard gives this guy plenty of easy ways to switch in while allowing us to stray away from fanboy abilities.

Life Orb STAB Head Smash with no recoil whatsoever is going to hurt, no matter what, and make Blissey useless against this guy. I'd be afraid of using Magic Guard, no matter how fun of an ability it is, because it would be too easy to break. Besides, I'm really looking at aftermath right now as a main ability.