CAP 4 CAP 4 - Part 3 (Secondary Typing Poll 3)

[Kietharr]

You joined this month, you're in no position to be calling anyone a noob. It isn't just noobs voting dragon, dougjustdoug runs the CAP server and he voted dragon. Both are viable, overall Dragon is a better matchup against more pokemon, and provides more resists (while they are arguably less useful ones) as well as a better STAB while Ground provides SS immunity and rock resistance with electric immunity, all of which are also useful for repeated switching in that you'll see with a utility pokemon.

Also keep in mind, the intent of this project isn't necessarily to make the end all best pokemon for x purpose, it's to make a balanced and unique addition to the game.

 

[Majesano]

Yeah know but I didn't say just noobs, I said that there were noobs. And yes DougjustDoug I'm sure knows more than me. Your right, I'm new too[but I have been lurking on the site for a few months now, so just don't assume I have no idea what I'm talking about], and I back up what i say with at least somewhat reasonable arguments. I just don't want dragon to win :p

 

[Sanglunaria]

I'm voting for Poison/Ground.

I think we already have more than enough dragon types running around, and I would really like to see a ground type that doesn't look like the generic lump of rock/earth. And like many have said already, ground works well with sandstorm, stealth rock, etc.

 

[Not Scicky]

Doug did some tests and found that Dragon/Poison is the better type against most of the OU's, I agree, some people have bad reasoning, Garchomp is borderline broken, there's not a single thing in the game that isn't 2KO'd by him after a swords dance unless they have a boost, and specsmence would OHKO or 2KO regardless of whether it's dragon or not, and this things not gonna be able to OHKO it back with any of the current spreads given, typing hardly makes a difference against those two.

(and honestly "There are enough dragons already" is about as bad of a reason as "becuz I sed so", there were ghost types before revenankh weren't there? There were Bug Types before syclant weren't there? You see what I'm getting at...)

 

[Majesano]

Doug did some tests and found that Dragon/Poison is the better type against most of the OU's,

well...that makes a damn good argument. Crap.
GO GROUND!!!!
We still got sandstorm, electric, and stealth rock resist though
And yes, I see what your getting at there. It's true. Still...lots of dragons :D haha. No you're right though.

 

[Not Scicky]

Dragon resists electric, and this thing (being a utility pokemon) will
probably have some sort of recovery move to cancel out the SR damage =/

 

[Majesano]

lol stop beating me!!!
Haha. Yeah it seems like dragon does have the edge, I'll say that.
Unfortunately it seems it's become a battle of opinion.
And I'll admit, I'm with ground mostly because I'm against dragon.
[Um that may sound dumb....but it's not. :p]

 

[ParadOxymoron]

Another reason Poison / Ground is awesome is that it's the only typing in the game that absorbs Toxic Spikes, resists Stealth Rock, is immune to Sandstorm, and has no 4x resistances. Even if it didn't have to be immune to Sandstorm, it would still be the only typing that fit the bill, because Poison / Fighting has a 4x weakness to Psychic.

 

[EspeonA]

Voting for Poison/Ground, because of shameless bandwagoning plus the fact that I was convinced by some of the posts with a logical explanation for choosing Ground.

 

[Urza]

damnit.

dragon is a better type for this concept...plus, i'm not a huge fan of this spider concept that's going on right now...

 

[Aldaron]

Explain to me how Dragon is better than Ground for this, especially after reading this:

Poison / Ground

I thought about it, and I figure it like this:

1.) Ground has the advantage over Dragon in that a Water weakness is less of an issue than a Dragon weakness.

2.) Dragon has more useful resistance with the Water, Fire and Grass as opposed to Ground's Rock, though Ground is immune to Electric and therefore Thunder Wave.

At this juncture, it was slight advantage Dragon, since the resistances advantage seemed to be more than the weaknesses disadvantage. Then I thought that, well, this thing is going to be switching in a lot...so...

3.) Ground's Stealth Rock resistance. Only a difference of 6.25% here, but coupled with the fact that it is immune to Sandstorm as well means that this thing can switch in more easily and also utilize Leftovers more efficiently than the Dragon version. This point is HUGE because it means it is much more efficient at switching in and being a utility type (ignoring resistances, obviously). I find taking minimum Stealth Rock damage and being able to use Leftovers as efficiently as possible two huge benefits for a utility Pokemon, and its ability to use Wish, Encore and Haze will be drastically improved.

At this point, Ground pulled up right next to Dragon, and I was unsure where to go.

4.) What did it for me is the fact that this gets STAB on arguably the most powerful move in the game while in Gravity...Earthquake. This may not seem huge, but humor me for a bit. A Gravity + Roar Pokemon can wreak havoc on the opponent, Toxic Spiking its Flyers / Levitators and hitting the Bronzong, Skarmory and Weezing all for SE damage with Earthquake.

It isn't a stretch at all to assume this will get Gravity, since Gravity was emphasized in the concept submission. With this in mind, think of how subtly useful a Gravity + Roar + STAB Earthquake Pokemon could be.

Yea, that sold me.

Poison / Ground

!!!

If you're going to make such a general statement, at least have a little substantiation to your claims.

 

[omgthatkid]

damnit.

dragon is a better type for this concept...plus, i'm not a huge fan of this spider concept that's going on right now...

Didn't you suggest a type of spider for a concept?
And I like either type. I prefer Dragon like you, but I can see potential in both typings.
Ground does have a HAWT ability to switch in with ease. It also doesn't take super-effective from Garchomp.
But Dragon does have those 4 resistances to common/basic attacking types.
Fire, Water, Grass, Electric.
It can be argued both ways as to which is better.

 

[Mr Escalator]

I sort of suggested a spider :s
Like, in the last poll, and it's quoted in my first post in this one.
The art in the other thread does make me think I would be fine with dragon, though. Either a raptor like thing, or what the big fat one on it's tail xP

I still think Ground's a better choice, but dragon isn't too bad.

 

[Not Scicky]

Another reason Poison / Ground is awesome is that it's the only typing in the game that absorbs Toxic Spikes, resists Stealth Rock, is immune to Sandstorm, and has no 4x resistances. Even if it didn't have to be immune to Sandstorm, it would still be the only typing that fit the bill, because Poison / Fighting has a 4x weakness to Psychic.

Sorry, but that's an awful criteria for a pokemon, there's so many things
to fit that it's no wonder it's the only type to resist it...

 

[Urza]

lol. i suggested a spider type, yes, but i haven't liked most of the spider submissions. at least it's better than the worm. a "scary" looking spider doesn't appeal to me. something impish perhaps.

and aldaron, i think dragon is a better type because of the resistances and making a wider variety of support moves viable from a flavor standpoint. i know flavor doesnt matter competitively speaking, but it's important to me that the pokemon makes some sort of sense. moves like gravity, heal block, the screens, heal bell, wish...they just don't make as much sense on a spider...other ground concepts, very possibly though.

also, stab doesn't matter on this pokemon as it usually does because of the fact that i think most of the community is going to nerf the attack. in this instance, lack of resistance becomes more viable. there are far more types that resist ground than resist dragon (1 dragon resist to 2 ground resists and an immunity). i know ground hits more types super effective, but again, this isn't an attacker...

i don't hate ground. i just prefer dragon, for the above reasons.

is that enough reasoning? ;-)

 

[ParadOxymoron]

Sorry, but that's an awful criteria for a pokemon, there's so many things to fit that it's no wonder it's the only type to resist it...

It's not a criterion or anything, I'm just saying it gives it more bonus points.

 

[Mr Escalator]

Why doesn't it make sense on a spider?

This would have access to a lot of flavour utility moves, like the screens as the defense, being able to pull down it's prey with "gravity", and hopefully some way to fit trick room in there. I thought a move similar to Mean Look, Spider Web, could be used to trap the foe, but something else could be done.

Gravity isn't too farfetched with a spider design.
Heal Block wasn't in the description for a pure utility (it doesn't have to be, but it's not that great of a utility move anyways).
The reflects serve as the cover to this trap door spider's burrow.
Heal bell is learned by so few, none being a dragon or ground, and wouldnt fit on a poison type flavor wise anyways.
and wish suffers from the very same, as this is a poison primary type.

So, how do you propose a dragon type have these things?
The spider can fit in very well with these moves, and even rapid spin.
Trick room is something I want to fit on this guy, and it's probably the most out there, but we can worry that later.

 

[aflorez0]

Poison/Ground
Neutral: Grass, Steel, Dragon, Dark, Normal, Flying, Ghost, Fire
Resistances: Fighting, Bug, Rock, Poison(4x)
Immunities: Electric
Weakness: Psychic, Ground, Water, Ice

Poison/Dragon
Neutral: Dark, Steel, Normal, Rock, Flying, Ghost
Resistances: Water, Fire, Grass(4x), Fighting, Electric, Bug, Poison
Weakness: Ice, Ground, Psychic, Dragon

- The two share the same weaknesses except for Water vs. Dragon weakness. It will still be weak to ice, ground and psychic no matter what we choose.

Its reall hard to decide because on one hand, Dragon (in-battle) resistances help it much better not only to block better but lure away incoming threats (check its resistances)

On the other hand, Ground has the field all to itself when it comes to entering in battle. A key resistance ground holds is rock, which is quite common in form of stone edge and Stealth rock.

Both types share equal resistance in Bug, Electric (ground immune), fighting (big key resistance on both sides), poison... the thing with dragon is... it hold 3 more useful resistances such as Fire, Grass and Water... while Ground is weak to one and takes the other two hits neutral.

I feel like im pointing out the obvious here, but sometimes you gotta do it... so you dont miss a thing.

Dragon moves are really common in OU, making a dragon type discouraging.... although as someone said, specsmence can handle both nonetheless... so it doesnt matter really.

As much as it pains me to say this, I vote Poison/Dragon

I've always been a fan of the Nidos (and its unique typing), and as handsome as entering battle and blocking a crippling thunderwave might be an advantage... it HAS to last long enough to set up... even if it isnt hit by super effective, Ground has more neutral hits coming its way.

please believe that I was rooting for Ground all the way, but I can see how it might fall in the late game.
Even though dragon will be hit my SS and SR, im positive its going to pack a recovery move and leftovers will be on this guy, so SS will just just make it prevent extra recovery from it... no harm done.

Who knows, maybe Im wrong but this is what I think.
The lack of a good stab move (with a good hitting variety like EQ) from a poison/dragon is also discouraging, but it will survive better.

If Ground wins, Im rooting for Gravity/EQ

but for now, Dragon

 

[Urza]

yay, more dragons.

all you groundlings that are on the fence, i urge you to switch to dragon. just think about how much more we can do with it!

and there is a very high likelihood we'll com up with a good ground type next time...

 

[Mr Escalator]

I'm not on the fence ;D
Ground has got to be my favorite type period.
Sandshrew is the best.

 

[monkymeet]

Poison/Ground would definitely be my choice. It comes with some pretty great resistances and I really think the Dragon typing is overdone. Plus, STAB with EQ is always a great possibility and the SR + Sandstorm resistance sounds great. I think it would greatly contribute to the game as a whole rather than the whole "loldragons" thing.

 

[Aldaron]

Make sure you guys bold your votes.

 

[LonelyNess]

Still voting for Dragon for all of the same reasons as before

 

[Sunday]

Ground: 63
Dragon: 43

The secondary typing poll is officially over.