CAP 2 Pre-evo - Part 7 - Movepool submissions

[capefeather]

And so, Necturna's pre-evo follows in the footsteps of Cofagrigus, Marshtomp, and Skuntank, and it is named Necturine. Congratulations, Necturna, congratulations, Smeargle, and congratulations, Vader for actually winning a CAP submission contest! But what moves can this newborn learn? Let's find out!

This stage is much more restricted than the equivalent for the main CAP. This is mainly because everything in Necturine's movepool must come from Necturna's movepool. For reference, you can see Necturna's movepool and explanations here. However, you can (and absolutely should) omit some of Necturna's moves from Necturine's movepool. Obviously, it makes sense to omit stuff like Hyper Beam, but you can (and should) omit other moves as well. I'm also going to go ahead and say you don't have to list the egg movepool in your submission, since it's going to be the same anyway and no explanation is needed or consequential. However, it's probably better to list the egg movepool, anyway, for the purposes of linking to the winning movepool in future threads.

For reference, these are Necturine's egg moves, passed down from the main CAP 2 process:

Curse
Giga Drain
Gravity
Future Sight
Ingrain
Leaf Blade
Leaf Storm
Natural Gift
Nightmare
Sketch

CAP 2's final product can be found here.

Necturine so far:

Typing: Grass / Ghost
Abilities: Anticipation / (Telepathy)
Base stats: 49 HP / 55 Atk / 60 Def / 50 SpA / 75 SpD / 51 Spe

 

[The Wanderer]

In terms of level-up moves, I think Necturine should ditch...
-Thunder Fang
-Poison Fang
-Super Fang

I mean, it's pretty obvious those were meant for evolution. And as for the TM moves...
-Hyper Beam
-Shadow Claw
-Stone Edge

As Capefeather said, It makes sense to get rid of Hyper Beam, and Necturine doesn't have any arms to Shadow Claw/Stone Edge with.

 

[jas61292]

Final Submission

Level Up

0 Leer
0 Vine Whip
7 Ominous Wind
13 Shadow Sneak
19 Toxic Spikes
19 Will-O-Wisp
25 Hex
35 Pain Split
43 Shadow Ball
51 Power Whip

For the most part I see Necturine's level up movepool as being very much the same as Necturna's. Very little in the level up pool really stands out as anything that Necturine should not be able to use, or even have a harder time using that Necturna. It kind of reminds me of Frillish, who shares the exact same level up pool with its evolution. The only moves that really stand out a as not fitting are the three Fang moves at level 0 and Horn Leech. Moves such as the fangs at level 0 are very rare on unevolved Pokemon, but somewhat common for evolutions to have, so I think it makes sense to get rid of them for Necturine.

As for Horn Leech, I just don't think it really looks like Necturine has the parts necessary to use such a move. Additionally, Horn Leech is currently only learned by the fully evolved Sawsbuck, so by not giving it to Necturine, we are keeping it exclusive to fully evolved Pokemon.

I personally see Necturine evolving at around level 31. As such, while I kept most level up moves the same, all moves after that level are learned at a lower level by Necturine than Necturna, as is customary. Originally I was thinking of moving the evolution back a bit, but with the removal of Horn Leech, anything later than 31 would cause it to need a Heart Scale to learn that move. I personally think that receiving Horn Leech upon evolution is a good way of showing how it just matured physically, to go along with the ability change that shows it developing mentally.

TM/HM

TM04 Calm Mind
TM06 Toxic
TM10 Hidden Power
TM11 Sunny Day
TM17 Protect
TM21 Frustration
TM22 SolarBeam
TM27 Return
TM30 Shadow Ball
TM32 Double Team
TM41 Torment
TM42 Façade
TM44 Rest
TM45 Attract
TM46 Thief
TM48 Round
TM53 Energy Ball
TM61 Will-O-Wisp
TM66 Payback
TM70 Flash
TM77 Psych Up
TM85 Dream Eater
TM86 Grass Knot
TM87 Swagger
TM90 Substitute
HM01 Cut

Honestly, I really feel that there are not too many TM moves that Necturna can learn that Necturine shouldn't also be allowed to have. That being said, there are a few moves that I did take out.

First and foremost, Hyper Beam and Giga Impact are gone. The only Pokemon who can learn these TMs are Pokemon who are fully evolved, once were fully evolved, or can also learn the moves by level up (or are Nuzleaf, but he's just weird). As Necturine is none of these, it only makes sense to take these moves away.

Next, I took away Shadow Claw. Like Gastly and Shuppet, Necturine really does not have the claws that its evolution has, and as such really has no way to use this move.

While not as obvious, I removed Psychic and Telekinesis for a similar reason. If you remember, part of the reason that we decided to give Necturine Anticipation as an ability was because it seemed like the progression from that to Forewarn was showing the development of its prediction skills. I feel like the less developed mental capacity of Necturine would also prevent it from using these moves which require strong psychic powers. A good comparison here would be to Riolu, who does not have the power to manipulate aura or use other mental related powers, and thus cannot use moves such as Psychic or Aura Sphere (without an event, at least), but its more mentally developed evolution can.

Finally, I removed Stone Edge from its movepool simply because it does not really seem to fit Necturine. Additionally, while there are exceptions, the vast majority of non-Rock type Pokemon who learn the move can only do so in their fully evolved form.

Egg

Curse
Giga Drain
Gravity
Future Sight
Ingrain
Leaf Blade
Leaf Storm
Natural Gift
Nightmare
Sketch

And of course, this is all the same, so not much to say here.


Overall, I feel that Necturna and Necturine are quite similar, and mostly, the only changes that needed to be made were those that reflect then unevolved, immature status of Necturine. Otherwise, the two are too much alike to justify removing much more.

 

[phoopes]

Final Submission
Egg moves: Stay the same, obviously.

Egg:
Curse
Giga Drain
Gravity
Future Sight
Ingrain
Leaf Blade
Leaf Storm
Natural Gift
Nightmare
Sketch

Level Up: Ditching the fangs here. Necturine really doesn't have developed "teeth," or fangs and such, so that makes sense here. Reducing levels for obvious reasons as well. I see Necturine evolving at a high level like other Gen 5 Pokemon, at Level 40 to be specific. In fact, that is why I have Shadow Ball at Level 41, to give hypothetical players a "reward" of sorts for stopping the evolution process. This would also make Level 40 a kind of breakthrough level, I guess, since if Necturna evolves, it would get another chance to learn Pain Split, and if it didn't, it would learn Shadow Ball early.

EDIT: Also getting rid of Horn Leech, for the following reason:

This is, of course, just an opinion, but I don't think that Horn Leech is a shoe-in for level-up, and further, I kind of don't think that Necturine should get it. It's already a signature move in the "real" game, and the line it's on follows the same pattern: Deerling must evolve to get Horn Leech.

Makes perfect sense, so axing that from its movepool.

Level Up:
0 Leer
0 Vine Whip
7 Ominous Wind
13 Shadow Sneak
19 Toxic Spikes
24 Will-O-Wisp
29 Hex
35 Pain Split
41 Shadow Ball
49 Power Whip

TM Moves: I'm sacking a bit more than most people would here, I think. Hyper Beam, Giga Impact, Shadow Claw, Stone Edge, Payback, Telekenisis, Psychic, and Torment. Hyper Beam and Giga Impact are obvious, because it's not a fully-evolved Pokemon. So are Shadow Claw and Stone Edge, since Necturine really has no apendeges to use those with. I think Telekenisis and Psychic shouldn't be in the movepool because Necturine doesn't have fully realized Psychic abilities yet, being a pre-evo. This would also show the maturity it reaches, similar to its ability change, from Anticipation to Forewarn. I think Payback and Thief should also be eliminated, because Necturine is an innocent-looking "baby" Pokemon. Necturna is the more sinister of the two, and the more fully-realized Ghost type, not Necturine, so I think that this change would also make sense.

TM:
04 Calm Mind
06 Toxic
10 Hidden Power
11 Sunny Day
17 Protect
21 Frustration
22 SolarBeam
27 Return
29 Psychic
30 Shadow Ball
32 Double Team
42 Façade
44 Rest
45 Attract
48 Round
53 Energy Ball
61 Will-O-Wisp
70 Flash
77 Psych Up
85 Dream Eater
86 Grass Knot
87 Swagger
90 Substitute
H1 Cut

 

[papainfernape95]

I see Necturine evolving at a high level like other Gen 5 Pokemon, around Level 40. In fact, that is why I have Shadow Ball at Level 40, to give hypothetical players a "reward" of sorts for stopping the evolution process. This would also make Level 40 a kind of breakthrough level, I guess, since if Necturna evolves, it would get another chance to learn Pain Split, and if it didn't, it would learn Shadow Ball early.

Itsy bitsy super tiny nitpick: if Shadow Ball is intended to be a "reward" move for not evolving, and you want it to evolve at level 40, you would need to make it learned at level 41 for Necturine, as at level 40 it would learn the move and THEN evolve.

 

[capefeather]

This is, of course, just an opinion, but I don't think that Horn Leech is a shoe-in for level-up, and further, I kind of don't think that Necturine should get it. It's already a signature move in the "real" game, and the line it's on follows the same pattern: Deerling must evolve to get Horn Leech.

 

[jas61292]

You make a good point cape. I had originally included it because Necturna doesn't look any more likely to get it than Necturine, so if one did, the other would. However, keeping it to a final stage only move is a good reason to not have it, so I think I will edit it out.

On a different note, how long do we have before these have to be final? And do we need to mark it as final when it is done?

 

[phoopes]

Papainfernape: Oh, it's been so long since I've played B/W that I completely forgot about that. Will make that edit.

Capefeather: Yeah, what the guy above me said.

 

[Asylum_Rhapsody]

I have a question. Some Pokemon that aren't fully evolved have moves on their level-up list that their evolutions don't have access to. I understand that we cannot include any moves that are not already on Necturna's list in general, but can we include moves that aren't on its level-up list specifically but that can already obtain other ways?

For example, I think that Natural Gift would be very thematically appropriate move for Necturine to have, given that it itself is a berry. Could I put Natural Gift on its move list after it would evolve into Necturna? For example, I could make Necturine learn Natural Gift at level 61, meaning that "in-game" it would need to choose between this and Power Whip if it didn't already get Natural Gift as an egg move.

Another possible example could be Grass Knot, which Necturna already has available by TM but which I also think would be cute and thematically appropriate for Necturine. I'm considering putting this on the move list somewhere after level 31, meaning that the Necturine would have to stop evolving to get Grass Knot instead of Horn Leech.

I don't personally see the harm, considering that it would add nothing at all new to Necturna, but I understand if the answer is no, so I just thought that I would ask.

 

[jas61292]

I am fairly certain that you would be allowed to Asylum_Rhapsody. Last CAP, when I made the movepool for Scratchet, I did plenty of that. The only thing that really should matter is the actual moves. If you want to change Egg or TM moves to Level Up, there is no real reason not to, as far as I know.

I personally did not do any of that, because I felt it should be, as I mentioned, similar to Frillish who's level up pool is practically the same as Jellicent. But if you want to, I'm almost certain it is allowed.

 

[Deck Knight]

Well I was gonna stay out of this cause jas had posted pretty much what I was gonna do, but I figure now I must jump into the fray.

Final Submission:

Level-Up

0 Leer
0 Vine Whip
7 Ominous Wind
13 Shadow Sneak
19 Toxic Spikes
19 Will-O-Wisp
25 Hex
31 Natural Gift
37 Pain Split
44 Shadow Ball
50 Power Whip

The level-up movepool removes the L0 Fangs and replaces Horn Leech with Natural Gift. My philosophy is basically that Necturine evolves at L31, so when if it learns Natural Gift and evolves, it will also learn Horn Leech. The level structure follows Hippopotas -> Hippowdon perfectly, which is the evolution line I based my levels on.

Egg

Egg Groups: Plant / Ground
Curse
Giga Drain
Gravity
Future Sight
Ingrain
Leaf Blade
Leaf Storm
Natural Gift
Nightmare
Sketch

The egg list is the egg list. Nothing fancy here.

TM/HM

TM04 Calm Mind
TM06 Toxic
TM10 Hidden Power
TM11 Sunny Day
TM17 Protect
TM19 Telekinesis
TM21 Frustration
TM22 SolarBeam
TM27 Return
TM29 Psychic
TM30 Shadow Ball
TM32 Double Team
TM41 Torment
TM42 Façade
TM44 Rest
TM45 Attract
TM46 Thief
TM48 Round
TM53 Energy Ball
TM61 Will-O-Wisp
TM66 Payback
TM70 Flash
TM77 Psych Up
TM85 Dream Eater
TM86 Grass Knot
TM87 Swagger
TM90 Substitute
HM01 Cut

Basically I looked over first form movepools for ghosts and culled Hyper Beam, Giga Impact, Stone Edge, and Shadow Claw. Most first form ghosts retain Payback, and they usually don't "pick up" things like Calm Mind and not Psychic if they won't have it the entire line. Necturna's movepool itself was very minimalist, no need to cull too much here.

Ghosts are far more versatile than they let on, even in early forms. The fact something is ostensibly "dead" is already a sufficient connection to "the other side" to warrant the moves they get, and I'm a canon purist on things like this. Even Golett gets Telekinesis and Psychic, and it's as far away from "smart trickster" as a Ghost type can get (Ghost is also its secondary typing, as is Necturine's).

 

[Bughouse]

There are several good submissions. No need for me (or anyone else, really) to clutter up the voting with something competitively identical and barely different flavor-wise. I think Deck Knight's submission is my preference. I would recommend that people only submit another movepool to the slate if it is noticeably different competitively or, if it is similar, drastically different flavor-wise.

 

[capefeather]

I was going to give a 24-hour warning much earlier and I'm sorry I didn't end up doing it, but what's done is done. (24 hour warning)

 

[Asylum_Rhapsody]

Well, I was going to submit one, but Deck Night pretty much did what I already said that I was going to do with Natural Gift. Any differences would be pretty much negligible, so I don't see much point in submitting something unless it's going to be something super crazy and gimmicky, like making it like Beldum with almost no moves on its list or something, but I don't even like that idea that much myself.

 

[capefeather]

Closing.