Tournament BSS World Cup II - Discussion Thread

Railgun

formerly luisin
is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Dedicated Tournament Host
Moderator

logo by Swiffix
Welcome to the second edition of BSS World Cup!
This thread will serve as the place to discuss all things relating to the upcoming BSS World Cup, regions, eligibility, teams, etc. Most of the following details in this thread will be tentative upon hearing community feedback, and will be finalized before the tournament starts (week 1 starts on February 19th).

Last year's format was 8 starters + 4 subs and 9 weeks (7 regular and 2 playoffs)

This thread is to discuss whether the format will remain the same as last year or different in format and teams.

Last year's teams were as follows:
  • Asia
  • Brazil
  • Europe
  • France + UK
  • India + RoW
  • Latin America
  • US East
  • US West
and last year's tiers:
  • Battle Stadium Singles Series 2
  • Battle Stadium Singles Series 2
  • Battle Stadium Singles Series 2
  • Battle Stadium Singles Series 2
  • Battle Stadium Singles Series 2
  • Battle Stadium Singles Series 2
  • Battle Stadium Singles Series 2 (Regulation C after April 1st)
  • Battle Stadium Singles Series 2 (Regulation C after April 1st)
  • + 4 Subs
Use this thread to discuss your thoughts on the tournament, the biggest questions during the year were:
- Why don't we unite the entire USA?
- Why India + RoW?
- Why only current BSS meta?
- Should there be more teams?

have fun and wait for news gamers!
 
Last edited:
I've been arguing this for months. But I am very much in favor of uniting all of the America's. That's NA and LATAM. World cup should be the apex of the team based tournament scene. And for that to be the case, rosters should consist of the strongest avaliable players.

With this in mind, consider that both Asia and Europe have several countries worth of players to pull from. Asia alone enjoys Chinese, Korean and Japanese rosters of very strong players. Why then, should we separate the America's; which are very clearly one cohesive region into separate parts? To begin with, our BSS scenes are noticeably smaller than others. So the reasons to do this are numerous.

Unite the America's.
 

DerpySuX

TABLES FLIPPED NOW WE GOT ALL THE COCONUTS BITCH
is a Site Content Manageris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Smogon Discord Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
I think uniting the states would be the best move. I personally believe putting both NA and LATAM on one squad (while I would enjoy getting to play with all my homies) would stack the odds a bit too much in our favor. Having one NA region and SA/LATAM would give us a good number of strong players to draft for each region without making it so it’s basically a repeat of Asia v World.
 
I think uniting the states would be the best move. I personally believe putting both NA and LATAM on one squad (while I would enjoy getting to play with all my homies) would stack the odds a bit too much in our favor. Having one NA region and SA/LATAM would give us a good number of strong players to draft for each region without making it so it’s basically a repeat of Asia v World.
It's less about odds and more about principle. It should be this way for other countries too. France +UK should just be Europe. The same way Asia is Japan, Korea, China. Our scenes simply aren't large enough to do this kind of region separation. If that means less teams, then so be it. But everyone would enjoy a much better pool of quality players and subs. Which should be the key point, I feel
 

Chris Chien Pao

formerly hunternoooob
Gonna be clear and cut with this,India + Row will be coming back this time again,The main thing is that any indian isnt getting in the asian roster + india alone dosent have that many players to form a roster,so the regions who are not forming a team can unite with India as India + RoW so the roster can be atleast strong and viable and give chance to players from regions which are not able to form a team.
 

DragonWhale

It's not a misplay, it's RNG manipulation
is a Top Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Dedicated Tournament Host Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
There was discussion on discord about the possibility of having custom avatar as a prize for world cup.

I am just going to say, this is a terrible idea. World Cup should not have a custom avatar prize.

Each section on smogon are allowed to have 2 CA rewarding tournaments, and the status quo rewarding it to BSPL and Invitational champion is way more favorable than removing it from the Invitational in favor of World Cup. Not only does BSPL and Invitational have a longer legacy, higher level of play, and higher prestige, the world cup is not a really fair playing field for players as their team strength relies heavily on how many good players are in their region.

All that's going to promote is prominent users gerrymandering to make their region as powerful as possible to increase their chances of getting a CA, instead of focusing on the logistics of having as close to a sensible region separation as this tour permits. Like you can't really say unite all of NA and LATAM into one superteam and not call it gerrymandering LOL let's be real now.

The goal of World Cup is to form a bond with people who live in your region and working with the teammates that you got. Let's not promote the drawing of insane boundaries just so some people can turn this tour into a freebie CA gift tour. It will forever turn this tournament into a mickey mouse cup. There's a reason why most sections don't use their CAs on world cups.
 

Aqua Jet

Boba Bitch
is a Contributor to Smogonis a Community Contributor Alumnus
Rapid Fire time

  • Custom Avatar idea is bad unless the goal is to attract more people into the tournament with the knowledge they won't stick around, PU is a good reference to use in terms of Custom Avatars in World Cups - sure they attract more people but almost all don't continue to play the tier once the tournament ends for their team. If the idea is to create a pinnacle of competition then its debatable but I'd still be against it because I think BSPL should be that.
  • While I would argue it doesn't fit the definition of gerrymandering, I'm against a merger of all of the new world.
  • I don't have a strong stance on uniting the United States of America.
  • Everyone should be able to participate in a tournament, wheather that be under "Rest of World" or if we can loop them in with another team that is around the same on a standard map. I prefer the latter.
  • No strong preference as to if we focus on only the current meta or diversify.
  • If we can afford more teams sure but ultimatly (as elitist as this may sound..) quality > quanitity, I'd prefer not to have a team full of people who aren't familiar with the format at all facing people who have been playing BSS since before I was on Smogon.

The whole region argument really does come down to signups though, I'd think it unwise to say "these are the regions" then have to go back to the drawing board midway through signups because there arent enough people. We should be debating how regions are formed, not who should and shouldn't be one. That should come after signups have been up for a bit and we have developed a consensus on how to form teams.
 

temp

legacy
is a Battle Simulator Staff Alumnus
Not in the BSS community, nor do I intend to sign up for BSS World Cup (nor do I imagine myself being picked up either), but I still wanted to give an opinion.

I think that this tournament should absolutely not combine the Americas. There shouldn't be East + West, nor should these regions merge with LATAM. I read these arguments through a pretty unbiased lens because I literally have nothing to gain or lose, and I ultimately found myself finding more holes in the line of thinking for those supporting an America merge.

World cup should be the apex of the team based tournament scene. And for that to be the case, rosters should consist of the strongest available players.
No, I don't really think it should. I think most would agree that PLs fit this definition more. When thinking of "apexes" for communities' tournament scenes, I actually hardly ever even think of World Cup purely because of the varying player base quality from region to region. Rosters typically do consist of the strongest players available. But they do not have to, nor should this be pursued in order to satisfy a concept that doesn't exist (of how World Cup should be the "apex"). I believe this line of thinking distorts the arguments being made going forward, and it immediately shows what the only intentions behind an America merge are. Those intentions, plain and simple, are to make America stronger as a region. It's not a very hidden motive—in fact it's so blatant that it becomes hard to take the arguments presented very seriously, even though I still am of course. There are no real justifications given in relation to logistics or anything. It simply is to make a team stronger and nothing else, which doesn't rub me the right way.

But everyone would enjoy a much better pool of quality players and subs. Which should be the key point, I feel
Well yes, merging regions into one will indeed increase the region's player quality. That's effectively a given. But the same time, I feel it's rather short-sided? This holds no consideration for "weaker" players that would've otherwise made it onto their respective teams before a merge, because at the end of the day, a merge is effectively akin to a player cut. And I think this is only justified with your reasoning because your definition on how World Cup is supposed to be is extremely inaccurate. Merges should happen when multiple teams AT ALL are impossible or difficult to create, not because a team that still gets sign-ups any other team would be more than happy with happens to have less mains sign up. World Cups in any scene are so much less about making the strongest possible team than they are about having a sense of community. You work with what you have and find pride in what your region is able to accomplish whether you win, lose, or even fail to make it out of relegation. Things like this are why Bangladesh's run in WCOP 2023, for example, was so amazing to spectate—a team of "weaker" players in the format were going out there and putting on a show. Making a super team by merging several competent regions might give better odds of winning, but it feels very contrary to what World Cup is about. Asia is different. While the quality of peak quality of players might be higher in Asia for BSS, the quantity of players is simply not enough to split into teams. Aiming to split Asia into Korea/Japan/China, for example, sounds like a great way to ensure full teams can't even be formed. The merging of Asia is not done to make Asia into a super team. There simply are not enough players, "good" or "not good," to justify not merging the regions into one. The same cannot be applied to the Americas, which will always have an abundance of players in comparison. You might not get the same quantity of "mainers," but you should only be hyper-fixated on that if your only focus is obtaining the maximum team strength, which ends up making your arguments come off as disingenuous as a result. I am not trying to say that wanting a strong team is bad. But I think World Cup is about making your team strong with what your team has to work with, not doing a fusion dance in order to artificially make it stronger than it already is.

As for Custom Avatars, I don't have a strong opinion on this. On one hand, the timing of making an America super team + adding a Custom prize at the same time doesn't sit right with me for some reason. On the other hand, it would bring in more players to the tournament by default. They may be less committed players, but they'd be players nonetheless, which probably matters a lot in smaller communities such as BSS'. I'd consider myself slightly against the idea of a Custom.

If merging Americas (not even just East + West, but all of NA + LATAM) is even a topic worth discussing, I don't think adding more teams is on the table.

This is an unbiased outsider POV. I don't play BSS. I don't want to play BSSWC. I'm from America, but I still don't agree with an America merge. I'm somewhat moldy in the brain. But I still wanted to chime in even as a filthy non-mainer. Plz don't hate me brothas.
 

Aqua Jet

Boba Bitch
is a Contributor to Smogonis a Community Contributor Alumnus
It's the end of the week now, and we are starting to consider how teams are being formed. I want to favor teams that are generally in the same geographic region as much as possible since this is a World Cup (so I wouldn't try to bundle Brazil and Russia, for example), but due to the fragmented nature of the signups in relation to geography, the map is probably going to look less clean the the WCOP map.
Basically this is just an informal declaration that I'm going to try to prioritize geography and # of eligible members for each team. I'm very much not set on this though, and plan to create the teams within the next few days, so if anybody has an objection with this criteria then please either DM me or post in this thread.
 

Aqua Jet

Boba Bitch
is a Contributor to Smogonis a Community Contributor Alumnus
Last call for inpuit on region formation! I and the rest of the team would appriciate more (or any..) opinions on how they should be formed so we can make decisions that work for everyone in the community and ensure a great tournament that we can all enjoy together.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top