Berry Juice

[Matthew]

Once Shoddy Battle 2 comes out, how do you guys feel about Berry Juice? For those who do not know Berry Juice is pretty much "a better Oran Berry" in the fact it heals 20HP when you are below or on 50% HP.

Do you believe that this item is broken in LC, or does it warrant a test to see how it will turn out?

 

[Annoying Old Party Man]

Voted broken. oran berry is already good enough, but double the recovery is just too much.

EDIT: this is almost like a hyper potion, 20 hp is way too much to not be broken.

EDIT 2: Lets just test this then.

 

[Elevator Music]

For reasons discussed on IRC I feel like Berry Juice should just be theorymon banned.

I'd copy/paste the log but my IRC is acting strange...

EDIT- Fine lets waste our time while we're already wasting our time playing pokemon then lol

 

[Stylish Interval]

I thought Berry Juice was like Potion? Is it not?

If it is like an Oran Berry, I would rather it be tested than merely voted, as it would be the more official way to go about it rather than just saying a few people cried about it and it went broken. There might be a strategy to go about beating it that would revolutionize LC, just someone would need to actually apply to attempt to do so.

 

[lati0s]

considering how offensive LC is I don't think it will be that bad, it should at least be tested

 

[RBG]

It's only a one time use item. It should be tested, but if everyone is using it (just like they use Oran Berry now), it might be not as broken as people think.

 

[tennisace]

I don't see why we can't test this, seeing as theorymon has been horribly wrong before. If it's broken, no sweat, we ban it. If it's not broken, again, no sweat. I don't see why we can't test it, seeing as time is not an issue at all.

 

[v]

While I do expect Berry Juice to be broken, I see absolutely no downside to testing it. While we may be able to theorymon out a thousand scenarios, they are no substitute for actual play. Theorymon has been wrong before and may well be wrong again here.

 

[Naxte]

I don't see why we can't test this, seeing as theorymon has been horribly wrong before. If it's broken, no sweat, we ban it. If it's not broken, again, no sweat. I don't see why we can't test it, seeing as time is not an issue at all.

Pretty much, this. Theorymon banning, except in extremely obvious cases of stuff like Kyogre and Arceus, is really silly, as it's just that--conjecture. You don't know how stuff will actually turn out. Doing so just leads to stuff like Old UU, where stuff like Rampardos was banned with no actual need for it to have been so, as it turned out.

There can be no harm in actually doing a test. If it turns out to be obviously broken, then it can just be quickly removed, just like Deoxys-S was in Stage 3--no sweat. However, when it comes to something like Berry Juice, we can't be sure what will actually happen to the metagame until it's actually thrown in there, and thus it warrants a test so that, if nothing else, if it is indeed broken, at least we can actually say that for sure and not just due to theorymonning. There's no harm in testing to make sure, whereas jumping to action without having actual data to back that action up however can lead to erroneous conclusions. Due to this, I can really see no reason not to at least give it a fair shot.

 

[little gk]

A test wouldn't hurt this at all. If its broken, its broken.

 

[dfe]

voted for it to be tested. like the above poster said it wouldn't hurt at all.

 

[Magik0722]

Will berry juice be healing 20 HP or will it more likely be healing somewhere between 11-14 HP?

 

[Annoying Old Party Man]

20 hp. I guess I change my vote, there really is no harm testing it, even if it will end up being broken. Who knows, I might be suprised.

 

[little gk]

Will berry juice be healing 20 HP or will it more likely be healing somewhere between 11-14 HP?

Berry Juice heals 20 HP

 

[Pyromanic]

Depends if it can or can't be stolen by bug bite.
Edit: BROKEN!

 

[Matthew]

It cannot be stolen with Bug Bite or Pluck

 

[ayush is cool]

i think it should be tested as we should see how the metagame reacts

 

[ferron]

i think it will end up broken, but i can't justify saying "lets ban it without testing," since that is the same as saying "since dunsparce has the best serene grace movepool, then it must be OU."
its all just theorymon till tested.

 

[kd24]

test it lol, at least with the pokemon, we had experience in the past with them. this is a brand new item that we need to do a quick 2 week test on

 

[umbarsc]

Unless I'm mistaken, didn't Gen 3 Little Cup have an item that functioned exactly the same that wasn't banned?

Really though, it's not as if defensive Pokemon are already overpowered and this is the tipping point. Offense rules LC, and this just brings a little balance to the table. I actually don't believe this will be broken or overpowered, but I do believe it will be banned. Still worth a test though.

 

[Thorns]

Yep. Sitrus Berry used to heal 30HP, and we decided to allow it, but have Item Clause on.
voted test it for obvious reasons previously stated

 

[Heysup]

Why is this a poll thread? Of course someone who doesn't really know / play LC will say 'Omg test everything'. It's very irrelevant imo. Anyway, I think since Berry Juice has an actual fact-based argument to be 'banned before testing', I don't see why it's a bad idea.

 

[Naxte]

Why is this a poll thread? Of course someone who doesn't really know / play LC will say 'Omg test everything'. It's very irrelevant imo. Anyway, I think since Berry Juice has an actual fact-based argument to be 'banned before testing', I don't see why it's a bad idea.

Because it can't hurt and there's no real rush? Not like the next Pokemon games are going to be coming any time soon--at the very least, there will be another year before they come out. I don't need to play Little Cup to understand that much.

Plus, right now, we don't know how it will actually affect the metagame. We can very safely say that it will be a very potent force, but whether it will actually hit the line of being broken and just how it will actually affect the metagame is hard to say, especially since every Pokemon, and not just one or some, can hold Berry Juice.

Thus, even if it seems potentially obvious, there's no harm in a test to at least make sure that that's actually the case, and that the theorymon holds true. There's no need to rush, so a test is find. And if it does obviously turn out to be broken, ala Deoxys-S in stage 3, it can quickly be removed in the same way, but at least we'll have that actual test to back it up and not just some theorymonning.

 

[zarator]

Voted for testing. From my experience, as others said, LC is extremely offense oriented. I fail to see how such an item could be broken - at least, so clearly broken. The fact that almost every Pokémon with a tad of bulkiness can use it equally well (not much like Yache Berry and Garchomp) reinforces my point that this item needs testing. If it results in a different metagame (where 2HKOes are much less crucial than they used to be, for example), so be it. Gamechanging is different from broken, and people seems to forget it pretty often.

 

[sbc]

Voted for testing. From my experience, as others said, LC is extremely offense oriented. I fail to see how such an item could be broken - at least, so clearly broken. The fact that almost every Pokémon with a tad of bulkiness can use it equally well (not much like Yache Berry and Garchomp) reinforces my point that this item needs testing. If it results in a different metagame (where 2HKOes are much less crucial than they used to be, for example), so be it. Gamechanging is different from broken, and people seems to forget it pretty often.

Pretty much this. I fail to see how it will be broken. With Oran Berry your 22 HP or whatever pokemon goes down to 10 HP. Oran heals 10 HP and you are back at 20 HP. In this case Berry Juice heals 20 and you are back at 22. Hardly a massive difference. Berry Juice is only going to be significant on pokemon with HP above 26 or so, which are few and far between. And it's not like walls are particularly sturdy anyway. If anything Berry Juice will help keep other borderline/powerful hard hitters in check.