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Ladder Balanced Hackmons
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I would ditch Ingrain though. Every time someone with a Perish Singer on their team sees it, they're going to be cackling maniacally. If you need the recovery, use Aqua Ring. If phazing is a concern... well, there's so many ways to stop Baton Pass that you're best off luring and killing/hopelessly crippling their phazer rather than trying to prevent it. Magic Bounce used to work nice enough, but they can just fling Parting Shot at you now.
...not to mention there's still Haze, Heart Swap, and Unaware.
Maybe also use something more defensive than Virizion. Sure, it's fast, but 91/72/129 isn't the best bulk around and you're bound to take hits trying to set-up (especially from Lum Berry sweepers). And an unboosted Secret Sword isn't hurting much of anything either off of 90 Sp. A. So if being in the higher speed tiers isn't a concern, Mega Venusaur has better 80/123/120 defenses with higher offensive stats if having no attacks is a concern, though it is slower (base 80). It also has an arguably better typing (no 4x weakness). There's also Ferrothorn, though it's slow as dirt without Prankster but it does hit rather hard with Gyro Ball.
...not to mention there's still Haze, Heart Swap, and Unaware.
Maybe also use something more defensive than Virizion. Sure, it's fast, but 91/72/129 isn't the best bulk around and you're bound to take hits trying to set-up (especially from Lum Berry sweepers). And an unboosted Secret Sword isn't hurting much of anything either off of 90 Sp. A. So if being in the higher speed tiers isn't a concern, Mega Venusaur has better 80/123/120 defenses with higher offensive stats if having no attacks is a concern, though it is slower (base 80). It also has an arguably better typing (no 4x weakness). There's also Ferrothorn, though it's slow as dirt without Prankster but it does hit rather hard with Gyro Ball.
There really is no reason to use Virizion now that Nature Power users are useless, I also don't see a reason to use Mega Venusaur with its low 80 base speed (It had 100 base speed before). Ferrothorn is a different question, it has the typing to counter Palkia, a threat that should always be accounted for in every team in my opinion.
Arcticblast edit: regular Venusaur has base 80 speed too lol
Arcticblast edit: regular Venusaur has base 80 speed too lol
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One thing I have been testing is the use of Magnet Pull to get rid of the steels people use to check the common Fridge Cubes and Pixilate Xerneas. Mega Blaziken works well for this role as it has STAB V-create and CC to anihilate the most common steels. It also makes a good initial switch into Cube, and can stall Xern out of Espeed PP. If anyone is interested, maybe you guys could let me know what you think of this set:
Blaziken-mega@leftovers
EVs:
Nature: Jolly/Adamant
Ability: Magnet Pull
Simple Beam
V-create
Close Combat
Recover
Simple beam for flash fires, other moves are self explanatory. I think good teamates for this set would be pokes that benefit from the removement of steels, such as Cube, who also scares out the most common poke that sets up all over this set: Giratina.
I think it was on this thread, a few pages back, when someone mentioned trying to find a good imposter lure with Magnet Pull. Aegislash does not work as mentioned thanks to its ghost typing, however i think something like Lucario-mega could work well here with a set of something like:
Lucario-mega@fist plate
EVs:
Nature: Modest
Ability: Magnet Pull
Shell Smash
Judgement
Dark Pulse
Flash Cannon
The goal of this set is to lure in imposters, which has worked for me the few times i have tried this set out, as what good players sometimes do is scout your set with Imposter before going into a check. This set beats Imposters almost no mater what, maybe opening a whole for something to sweep that previously could not. Modest>Timid imo because Modest has a 75% chance to OHKO the Chans if it switched in on you unboosted, or on the turn you boost, if it has Eviolite intact, basically a +1 Judgement has a good shot at killing it with Modest. This set can also sweep if pranksters are removed, however it only 2hkos gira who could phaze, sleep, or even knock off your fist plate. However, STAB fighting Judgement is very strong, and at +2 most non-resists are getting KOd.
I think these sets are original, sorry if they are not. Any feedback and opinions are appreciated.
Blaziken-mega@leftovers
EVs:
Nature: Jolly/Adamant
Ability: Magnet Pull
Simple Beam
V-create
Close Combat
Recover
Simple beam for flash fires, other moves are self explanatory. I think good teamates for this set would be pokes that benefit from the removement of steels, such as Cube, who also scares out the most common poke that sets up all over this set: Giratina.
I think it was on this thread, a few pages back, when someone mentioned trying to find a good imposter lure with Magnet Pull. Aegislash does not work as mentioned thanks to its ghost typing, however i think something like Lucario-mega could work well here with a set of something like:
Lucario-mega@fist plate
EVs:
Nature: Modest
Ability: Magnet Pull
Shell Smash
Judgement
Dark Pulse
Flash Cannon
The goal of this set is to lure in imposters, which has worked for me the few times i have tried this set out, as what good players sometimes do is scout your set with Imposter before going into a check. This set beats Imposters almost no mater what, maybe opening a whole for something to sweep that previously could not. Modest>Timid imo because Modest has a 75% chance to OHKO the Chans if it switched in on you unboosted, or on the turn you boost, if it has Eviolite intact, basically a +1 Judgement has a good shot at killing it with Modest. This set can also sweep if pranksters are removed, however it only 2hkos gira who could phaze, sleep, or even knock off your fist plate. However, STAB fighting Judgement is very strong, and at +2 most non-resists are getting KOd.
I think these sets are original, sorry if they are not. Any feedback and opinions are appreciated.
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Both sets look quite decent, I don't really like the Mega Blaziken that much but that's just me always thinking about defensive utility on every Pokemon. The Mega Lucario set is good, but most players will not even bother to send in an imposter because it'll be too risky (the Imposter and the foe have a 50/50 chance in normal circumstances, not vs that sets fist plate judgment.) Another ability will probably be more useful, Parental Bond or something would work.
So the mindfuck with people I've been experimenting a lot and ran something that you rarely see:
Trick Room.
And other thing you see more commonly:
Protean
Now, cause protean works regardless of move chosen, whenever offensive or status it allowed me to make this fun guy; President Mega
Abomasnow - Mega @ Lum / LO / Other
Nature: Brave or Quiet
Ability: Protean
2 Important moves that are must have:
- Fake out / Detect / King's Shield / Magic Coat / Spiky Shield / Other very high priority move
- Trick Room
Offense:
This is where you can get creative but I've been using:
Either a special with Shadow Ball and AuraSphere/Secret Sword for perfect coverage.
Or Physical with other type of moves, such as sacred fire, v-create, hammer arm, and the like.
Now really, you wouldn't normally want to use something with terrible amount of weaknesses, but protean fixes it completely. You choose the desired defensive typing as you let it lose with a high priority move, afterwards trick room allows this guy to unleash damage upon the poor sap's mons with constant stab boost and the changing typing giving up a lot of nuinsance.
So yeah, oughta dish some nuinsance and damage to all those frail sweepers around and otherwise soften things up for the other sweepers.
This set doesnt enjoy imposters but then again, the imposter does get stuck in a very slow form.. And sturdy sheddy is a complete counter that will take advantage of the trick room unless you're running rocky helmet or spiky shield, both which are bit under whelming for this guy to be able to keep up.
I'm also trying to dig into other mons that are normally bad due of their typing that could enjoy protean, but so many of them get outclassed already that its saddening.
Trick Room.
And other thing you see more commonly:
Protean
Now, cause protean works regardless of move chosen, whenever offensive or status it allowed me to make this fun guy; President Mega
Abomasnow - Mega @ Lum / LO / Other
Nature: Brave or Quiet
Ability: Protean
2 Important moves that are must have:
- Fake out / Detect / King's Shield / Magic Coat / Spiky Shield / Other very high priority move
- Trick Room
Offense:
This is where you can get creative but I've been using:
Either a special with Shadow Ball and AuraSphere/Secret Sword for perfect coverage.
Or Physical with other type of moves, such as sacred fire, v-create, hammer arm, and the like.
Now really, you wouldn't normally want to use something with terrible amount of weaknesses, but protean fixes it completely. You choose the desired defensive typing as you let it lose with a high priority move, afterwards trick room allows this guy to unleash damage upon the poor sap's mons with constant stab boost and the changing typing giving up a lot of nuinsance.
So yeah, oughta dish some nuinsance and damage to all those frail sweepers around and otherwise soften things up for the other sweepers.
This set doesnt enjoy imposters but then again, the imposter does get stuck in a very slow form.. And sturdy sheddy is a complete counter that will take advantage of the trick room unless you're running rocky helmet or spiky shield, both which are bit under whelming for this guy to be able to keep up.
I'm also trying to dig into other mons that are normally bad due of their typing that could enjoy protean, but so many of them get outclassed already that its saddening.
The more I see Parental Bond in play, the more I dislike it. I was initially excited for it because it sounded fun (and it was), but it's a bit over the top. Choice item + Serene Grace + pseudo-Skill Link all in one ability? Yeah...
Also, one thing I've found to actually be useful is a horribly overlooked Pokemon previously. Yes, in Gen V, it was wise to overlook it because it didn't do anything of note that wasn't done better elsewhere. But this is Gen VI! And Game Freak decided to bless this Pokemon with a type change. So... who is it?
Togekiss.
While it's BST might be a bit on the low side for BH, it just so happens to have the stats exactly where it needs them. It has bulk and power just a bit under Xerneas while being a tad bit on the slow side, but makes up for it with it's unique typing: Flying/Fairy. Between the well-placed stats and the typing, Togekiss can definitely pull it's weight. Support? Yeah, it runs stuff like Magic Bounce, Prankster, and Poison Heal quite well. Offense? Gale Wings Oblivion Wing is just as annoying as it is on Yveltal except Togekiss has arguably a better defensive typing to abuse it with (though this will largely depend on your team's defensive synergy). And even unboosted, its Moon Blast is capable of 2HKOing some stuff, such as the aforementioned Yveltal after hazards.
Oh, and did I mention that it makes Garchomp wet it's pants in fear? That's right, immunity to both of its STABs! And I've definitely seen a fair number of Megachomps running around, so this is certainly a relevant immunity. Also again, even unboosted, Moon Blast scares the hell out of Garchomp, so Togekiss is a great teammate if you're vulnerable to the land shark or if you're packing one so you can piss off Imposters.
Also, one thing I've found to actually be useful is a horribly overlooked Pokemon previously. Yes, in Gen V, it was wise to overlook it because it didn't do anything of note that wasn't done better elsewhere. But this is Gen VI! And Game Freak decided to bless this Pokemon with a type change. So... who is it?
Togekiss.
While it's BST might be a bit on the low side for BH, it just so happens to have the stats exactly where it needs them. It has bulk and power just a bit under Xerneas while being a tad bit on the slow side, but makes up for it with it's unique typing: Flying/Fairy. Between the well-placed stats and the typing, Togekiss can definitely pull it's weight. Support? Yeah, it runs stuff like Magic Bounce, Prankster, and Poison Heal quite well. Offense? Gale Wings Oblivion Wing is just as annoying as it is on Yveltal except Togekiss has arguably a better defensive typing to abuse it with (though this will largely depend on your team's defensive synergy). And even unboosted, its Moon Blast is capable of 2HKOing some stuff, such as the aforementioned Yveltal after hazards.
Oh, and did I mention that it makes Garchomp wet it's pants in fear? That's right, immunity to both of its STABs! And I've definitely seen a fair number of Megachomps running around, so this is certainly a relevant immunity. Also again, even unboosted, Moon Blast scares the hell out of Garchomp, so Togekiss is a great teammate if you're vulnerable to the land shark or if you're packing one so you can piss off Imposters.
Ah, yet another pokemon that wishes Nature Power stayed the way it was... I don't see much reason to use Togekiss as a bouncer since you'll do better with a bouncer that beats Regigigas 100% of the time. Offensive sets, however look quite promising. Anti-Chomp typing helps it become a very reliable pivot against some teams, Overall, it would be much better if gen 5 Nature Power still existed.
I've reached the top of the BH ladder many times with a combination of specific threats and general answers. Chansey+Chansey+Sheddy+Poison Heal+Magic Bounce covers 99% of anything anyone is doing in BH, and the Chanseys and PH provide a lot of opportunities to play around scary things as well.
A couple questions: Ca you use stance change or multitype on any pokemon?
Okay, that sucks. :(
My current team is an illusion team. Extremely derpy, but oddly effective.
My current team is an illusion team. Extremely derpy, but oddly effective.
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EV
Banned deucer.
I can't believe Parental Bond isn't hardcoded. You'd think that would be Kangy exclusive, considering the whole parent battling with its baby thing.
Has anyone run it on defensive sets to maximize recovery? I'm thinking Oblivion Wing in particular, but other moves are potentially viable. Also, does Dragon Tail go twice as well?
Has anyone run it on defensive sets to maximize recovery? I'm thinking Oblivion Wing in particular, but other moves are potentially viable. Also, does Dragon Tail go twice as well?
Chatter hits with 100% confusion? Welp, time to climb the ladder.
They only hardcode abilities/move effects that involve changing forms, and they only do that to avoid awkward situations where Smeargle turns into Meloetta-P, or Porygon turning into Darminitan-Z, or the like. What would be the point of Trace and all the cool ability stealing moves if the greatest abilities are hardcoded to work for other things?
Also, I have run into one Parental Bond user with Oblivion Wing, (I think Lugia?), and another that used Super Fang to take out 75% of my current HP in one turn. Combine that with a double Sismic Toss, and you can 2HKO Blissy, assuming no recovery.
Are huge/pure power banned? I can't use them on showdown.
Maybe we should include bans in the OP so people stop asking about them.
252 Atk Refrigerate Kyurem-B Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Mega Mewtwo X on a critical hit: 247-292 (59.3 - 70.1%)
252+ Atk Refrigerate Kyurem-B Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Mega Mewtwo X on a critical hit: 271-319 (65.1 - 76.6%)
This is also ruling out items.
EDIT: it had Life Orb...
252 Atk Life Orb Refrigerate Kyurem-B Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Mega Mewtwo X on a critical hit: 321-380 (77.1 - 91.3%)
Refrigerate changes type and adds a free BP increase!
Kit Kasai
Love colored magic
wait what I counted the bp increase and the item and the nature in my calc
lolwut
252+ Atk Life Orb Kyurem-B ExtremeSpeed vs. 252 HP / 252 Def (custom) on a critical hit: 469-554 (112.74 - 133.17%) -- guaranteed OHKO
what
Your Calculator is probably counting crits as x2 damage still.
Kit Kasai
Love colored magic
252+ Atk Life Orb Kyurem-B Helping Hand ExtremeSpeed vs. 252 HP / 252 Def (custom): 352-415 (84.61 - 99.75%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
helping hand is 1.5 right?
still getting different numbers lol
are there any gen 6 calcs out
Here's a niche counter if Kyu-B scares your team.
252+ Atk Life Orb Kyurem-B ExtremeSpeed vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Lapras: 68-79 (14.65 - 17.02%) -- 9HKO at best
That's accounting for the STAB and 30% boost. Probably the best 4x Ice resistance in the game, but you'd really have to watch for Close Combat though since, with Adamant and LO, it has a chance to OHKO. Lapras is also kind of lacking in usefulness outside of it's 4x Ice resistance now that perma-Hail is gone and people use P-Bond to break Subs instead of Kyu's Skill Link, so you really only want to use it if Refrige Kyu-either is that huge of a threat to the rest of your team. Or if you're running one yourself and want a great Imposter check (just mind your Kyu's coverage).
A somewhat more common option, but a bit shakier...
252+ Atk Life Orb Kyurem-B ExtremeSpeed vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Jellicent: 147-173 (36.38 - 42.82%) -- 97.66% chance to 3HKO
Wouldn't have to fear Close Combat coverage, though Bolt Strike will still be nasty (though, as far as I've seen, everyone's been opting for Close Combat over Bolt Strike). But on the other hand, it'll be harder to switch in safely or keep it up since the E-Speeds still hit it fairly hard.
A third option...
252+ Atk Life Orb Kyurem-B ExtremeSpeed vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Registeel: 87-104 (23.9 - 28.57%) -- possible 5HKO
Would work much better than Jelli for Kyu-Bs who opted for Bolt Strike (most refrige Kyu-Bs I've seen run Fake Out/E-Speed/Coverage/Recovery, Set-up, Spin, or Anti-Sheddy), but Close Combat is an ensured 2HKO. If they do have Bolt Strike, it's an ensured 3HKO with a LO and Adamant. But, because of the next option, Crunch is far more likely if they don't have Close Combat or if they're running two coverage moves. Registeel is just going to laugh at Crunch.
And a fourth option, probably the most common...
252+ Atk Life Orb Kyurem-B ExtremeSpeed vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Aegislash: 87-104 (26.85 - 32.09%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
Mind, Aegislash is fairly common, so if Kyu-B isn't running Close Combat for coverage, or it's running dual-coverage, then that means it's probably running Crunch. And Crunch is an ensured 2HKO. Also, unlike Registeel, Bolt Strike has a 34% chance for a 2HKO with just the LO boost and Adamant.
On all three, King's Shield would probably work pretty nicely. Burning it somehow is great too (any of these three can be Magic Guard Psycho-Shifters if needed). Kyu-B also dislikes hazards, so keeping those up in conjunction with something that walls it will wear it down overtime. There's also Fur Coat, which would drop the damage calcs by quite a bit and ensure that none of them get OHKOed outside of boosts or crits.
Of course, there's always Sheddy and Imposters, but players who know what they're doing will be prepared for both.
And... umm... that quick reply got huge...
252+ Atk Life Orb Kyurem-B ExtremeSpeed vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Lapras: 68-79 (14.65 - 17.02%) -- 9HKO at best
That's accounting for the STAB and 30% boost. Probably the best 4x Ice resistance in the game, but you'd really have to watch for Close Combat though since, with Adamant and LO, it has a chance to OHKO. Lapras is also kind of lacking in usefulness outside of it's 4x Ice resistance now that perma-Hail is gone and people use P-Bond to break Subs instead of Kyu's Skill Link, so you really only want to use it if Refrige Kyu-either is that huge of a threat to the rest of your team. Or if you're running one yourself and want a great Imposter check (just mind your Kyu's coverage).
A somewhat more common option, but a bit shakier...
252+ Atk Life Orb Kyurem-B ExtremeSpeed vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Jellicent: 147-173 (36.38 - 42.82%) -- 97.66% chance to 3HKO
Wouldn't have to fear Close Combat coverage, though Bolt Strike will still be nasty (though, as far as I've seen, everyone's been opting for Close Combat over Bolt Strike). But on the other hand, it'll be harder to switch in safely or keep it up since the E-Speeds still hit it fairly hard.
A third option...
252+ Atk Life Orb Kyurem-B ExtremeSpeed vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Registeel: 87-104 (23.9 - 28.57%) -- possible 5HKO
Would work much better than Jelli for Kyu-Bs who opted for Bolt Strike (most refrige Kyu-Bs I've seen run Fake Out/E-Speed/Coverage/Recovery, Set-up, Spin, or Anti-Sheddy), but Close Combat is an ensured 2HKO. If they do have Bolt Strike, it's an ensured 3HKO with a LO and Adamant. But, because of the next option, Crunch is far more likely if they don't have Close Combat or if they're running two coverage moves. Registeel is just going to laugh at Crunch.
And a fourth option, probably the most common...
252+ Atk Life Orb Kyurem-B ExtremeSpeed vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Aegislash: 87-104 (26.85 - 32.09%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
Mind, Aegislash is fairly common, so if Kyu-B isn't running Close Combat for coverage, or it's running dual-coverage, then that means it's probably running Crunch. And Crunch is an ensured 2HKO. Also, unlike Registeel, Bolt Strike has a 34% chance for a 2HKO with just the LO boost and Adamant.
On all three, King's Shield would probably work pretty nicely. Burning it somehow is great too (any of these three can be Magic Guard Psycho-Shifters if needed). Kyu-B also dislikes hazards, so keeping those up in conjunction with something that walls it will wear it down overtime. There's also Fur Coat, which would drop the damage calcs by quite a bit and ensure that none of them get OHKOed outside of boosts or crits.
Of course, there's always Sheddy and Imposters, but players who know what they're doing will be prepared for both.
And... umm... that quick reply got huge...
Yeah, I appreciated that Illusion idea. Works pretty well, prevents imposter stupidity. However, the trick becomes a little obvious when you poison two completely different "Giratinas" and a third one comes in with full health.
To the post above: Isn't Cloyster a better 4x resist counter than Lapras?