Aw, Hail No! (Peaked 72)

[XcRunner]

Aw, Hail No!​

Hey Smogonites, this is a team that I've made recently and it has done wayyyy better than I ever believed it would have as it got me to 72nd on the ladder. I know that's nothing special, especially because the ladder was just recently reset, but that's the highest ranking I've ever achieved, so I'm pretty happy with it. I'm posting it on here because I'm sure it could do much better as I really want to get a hail team past 1300 points. My peak was 1269.
So this team is probably one of the strangest teams most of you have ever seen as I am using a hyper offense team with hail. The point is basically to make the hail take away leftovers recovery and weather bonuses of the opponent while just hitting hard and paving the way for a Scarf MoxieMence sweep. So I'm done with the long intro, and here's the team!

Abomasnow@expert belt
Lonely
-Ice Shard
-Earthquake
-Wood Hammer
-HP Fire
252 att/104 spA/152 spe​

All credit for this set goes to ShakeItUp, and I just loved it so much that I had to use it. Ice Shard helps destroy those annoying baton pass teams w/ ninjask, and priority moves are always helpful on hyper offense. I go for high speed and high power on my pokes, and Abomasnow is not fast, so Ice Shard helps. HP Fire is to take out steels to make Salamence's Outrage sweep much easier. EQ takes out Heatran who is extremely annoying to my team as it prevents my Heatran from being of much use, and it stops Salamence from doing much outside of EQ, which is a bad move to be locked into. Note: Abomasnow is my lead against most non-weather teams. I often will lead with Mienshao instead against weather teams.

Scizor@Choice Band
Adamant
-Bullet Punch
-U-Turn
-Supwerpower
-Pursuit
248 hp/252 att/8 spe​

Scizor is my new replacement for Azelf and Mew which were both great on the team, but Scizor was simply able to check threats better while still providing offense. Terrakion and fast scarf users were just decimating my team, and Scizor helps so much along with U-Turn just constantly adding more and more damage. Pursuit lets me beat non-HP Fire Lati@s as they are a huge pain with a scarf with their higher speed as Salamence cannot sweep with them still alive.

Starmie@life orb
Timid
-Hydro Pump
-Thunderbolt
-Blizzard
-Rapid Spin
4 hp/252 spA/252 spe​

Starmie plays a very important role on the team. Often he is the one that is able to take out many of the faster and weaker opposing pokemon, and he is also the one to get rid of stealth rock. Having life orb may seem a bit strange, but I do not care if he is KO'ed fast. Honestly, I don't care much if anyone is KO'ed as long as I still have Salamence left. He just wins games. It's ridiculous. I like having him alive for rapid spinning, but I actually haven't much and it's been fine. I've been debating whether or not to get rid of rapid spin and use HP Fire instead, but I don't think I will. A very important thing I realized was that Starmie can also survive a Close Combat from Terrakion if he has no boosts and no life orb, and so Starmie is my crucial counter to Rock Polish Rock Gem Terrakion which decimated my team before I realized that.

Mienshao@life orb
Jolly
-Fake Out
-High Jump Kick
-U-Turn
-Stone Edge
4 hp/252 att/252 spe​

Holy cow, I love this guy. Regenerator makes him so incredible on a hail team. I can switch him in, Fake Out the opponent and let them take both hail damage and damage from fake out. Then I can either U-Turn or just go for serious damage with High Jump Kick, which is often what I do. I would rather do serious damage then have a slight type advantage. He is fast enough to outspeed a lot as well, and so I really only have problems when someone switches in something faster than me. Again, I cannot describe how incredible Mienshao is.

Heatran@life orb
Timid
-Fire Blast
-Earth Power
-Protect
-Stealth Rock
4 hp/252 spA/252 spe​

I made Heatran into the offensive life orb variant with stealth rock because I replaced Azelf with Scizor. He is very valuable on my team due to being a valuable steel type to give many resistances to my team as well as just his overall defensive capabilities and being able to take out many steels that are troublesome to my team. Protect is odd on the set, but it really racks up damage with the constant hail, and it allows my to scout which opposing pokemon may or may not be scarfed so that I know when it is safe for Salamence to come in and sweep.

Salamence@choice scarf
Moxie*
Naive
-Outrage
-Dragon Claw
-Earthquake
-Fire Blast
252 att/4 spA/252 spe​

Okay, so this is nothing you guys haven't seen, but most people haven't realized how amazing he is. If Salamence is still alive, I have a good shot at winning the game, and that's what my team is about. I just wear down all opposing walls and let him clean up. Faster scarfers are a real pain, but Landorus is taken out easily by priority ice shard, hail, stealth rock, fake out, etc. The real problem is CS Terrakion. He gets worn down and can't OHKO Starmie, but if stealth rocks are up I have a problem. Other than him, Salamence pretty much outspeeds everything I need him to, and Moxie boosts are ridiculous. I just come in on something that I can OHKO and then proceed to KO everything else with the additional boosts as by the time I bring him out, pretty much every steel is either gone or in OHKO range. There's not much else left to say. He just wrecks any team with the proper support.

So that's my team. I hoped you enjoyed my RMT, and any constructive criticism would be greatly appreciated.

 

[XcRunner]

Reserved for Threat List:

 

[KorKonT]

Interesting team, but it doesn't look much like a hail team to me. It pretty much looks like Abomasnow is there just to neutralize the opponent's weather advantage so you can sweep. It's a decent strategy, but Abomasnow is a pretty bad candidate for this niche. I would recommend removing it, but as this is a 'hail' team, I'm going to keep Abomasnow on and help you take advantage of the weather you have up. One thing you need is something reliable to take advantage of the weather, and the first thing I think of is Kyurem though, this would likely require getting rid of Salamence. Kyurem has a Sp. Atk and Atk stats of 130, making it great for mixed sets. If you want it to replace Salamence, I would try this set:

Hide

Kyurem @ Choice Scarf Trait: Pressure
EVs: 144 Atk / 144 SAtk / 220 Spd
Mild Nature (+SAtk, -Def)
- Outrage
- Blizzard
- Stone Edge
- Draco Meteor

This allows for rather good mixed attacking and acceptable speed for late-game. I would definitely give it a shot.

 

[XcRunner]

Thanks for the rate!
Yeah, the entire point of Abomasnow is getting rid of leftovers recovery as well as to make sure that the opponents aren't abusing stuff like rain dish, dry skin, sand power/rush, and chlorophyll as I cannot outspeed chlorophyll users with a choice scarf, and rain dish + leftovers is a lot of recovery that I do not want to give back.
Although you are completely right as this is not really a hail team, just a team that uses it for the weather ability, not for the ice or for blizzard.
I love Kyurem, and I had a life orb variant going for awhile, but I got rid of it. I don't remember why, but I believe that I wanted to get a rapid spinner and a stealth rock user and chose to go with Starmie and Azelf. I would love to put Kyurem on the team as a second dragon to really destroy steel types, but I do not know what to get rid of as Salamence is truly the star of my team and I don't want to get rid of it. Who would you recommend replacing?

 

[KorKonT]

Things to note :
Don't sweat the speed that much. Well-balanced teams with good walls will always surpass weather abusers. The only speed boosting weather you need to worry about in the current metagame is Chlorophyll, which is easily walled by any dragon. Play it smart, and you'll do fine.

Leftovers and Rain Dish can be a pain, but the easiest way to beat this is with set-up sweepers or my personal favorite, stallbreakers. There are two main stallbreakers in OU right now, Jellicent and Mew. My favorite is this set:

Mew @ Leftovers Trait: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP / 80 SDef / 176 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Taunt
- Will-O-Wisp
- Roost
- Ice Beam

Ice Beam allows for the beating of Gliscor, Dragonite, Salamence, Breloom, and other strong hitters while Will-o-Wisp and taunt allow for unparelled anti-stall. You will have no issue stalling out the likes of Scizor, Tentacruel, Jellicent, Jirachi, and several others. Just beware of Hydration, powerful dark-type moves, mirror coat/magic guard, and fire types.

I would recommend replacing Abomasnow or Starmie with this, but due to the hail basis of the team i'm reluctant to ask you to replace it.

One thing I must note is you should probably remove Azelf. Explosion isn't nearly as useful as it was in Diamond/Pearl, so that should be changed. I would recommend giving it a Life Orb for extra power(especially because of its suicide style in the first place, the health preservation won't do you much good), and give it Zen Headbutt(put the 4 SpAtk EVs in health). This gives it good stopping power, and Zen Headbutt will generally do more than Psychic due to you not giving any Effort Values to it.

Hope I helped!

 

[XcRunner]

I'm going to test that mew set right away. It does seem like a really good idea. The one problem I have with replacing Azelf is losing stealth rock as it allows me to get some KO's I wouldn't otherwise get. That is a really good idea though. Thanks again! I'll let you know how it works out.

 

[KorKonT]

Stealth Rock-capable Pokemon aren't exactly rare in the current metagame, there are plenty to choose. However, with the current life orb role you have, there really isn't many other ones you can use without giving your team something it doesn't need.
I'd keep Azelf, get rid of Starmie. chances are the rapid spin isn't going to be necessary. Mew over Starmie would likely give this team a good backbone against rain teams.

 

[Lavos]

Stealth Rock-capable Pokemon aren't exactly rare in the current metagame, there are plenty to choose. However, with the current life orb role you have, there really isn't many other ones you can use without giving your team something it doesn't need.
I'd keep Azelf, get rid of Starmie. chances are the rapid spin isn't going to be necessary. Mew over Starmie would likely give this team a good backbone against rain teams.

Starmie is better than mew against rain...and he has a mence, spinning is going to be critical for success

 

[XcRunner]

Testing out Mew over Azelf and then changed Heatran to a stealth rock variant to keep that. Thanks for the rates guys. Mew is a huge help against sand teams, and Starmie has always been awesome for rain.

 

[The QWAZ]

Hi,
Awesome team you got here, well done for using hail. From what I can see Scarf terakion gives you massive issues as it outspeeds everything and can kill something switch and come back in easily, to remedy this try CB scizor > heatran bullet punch and a neutrality to fighting mean scizor will nearly always come out on top vs terrakion and as a bonus scizor adds pressure on to the opponent with his u-turning antics.
Have fun with the team.

 

[XcRunner]

First off, thanks for the rate! Yeah, CS Terrakion is a MAJOR pain that I have, and I loved having Scizor on the team, but the problem is that I cannot really remove anyone. Heatran lays down stealth rock for me, so I cannot get rid of him anymore, and Mew is a huge benefit to go against stall teams. Starmie can live a CS Jolly Terrakion Close Combat and KO w/ Hydro Pump, but the problem is if I had any prior damage as it is my rapid spinner and will have to come in and remove stealth rock and/or toxic spikes as that also destroys my team. So I will give Scizor another shot as soon as I can find a way to squeeze him onto my team.

Edit:
Scizor is working really well as a replacement for Mew. Mew was doing well, but it just takes away from the pure power that the team was. Scizor checks most of what Mew checked by using Bullet Punch and Pursuit to take care of common sand threats while Mew could only hope to burn the slower ones.

 

[KorKonT]

Starmie is better than mew against rain...and he has a mence, spinning is going to be critical for success

I must say, spinning isn't terribly necessary for Salamence in my opinion. And also, I fail to see how Starmie is any better at handling rain teams. Boosted Hydro Pump? Doesn't matter, as most rain abusers resist water moves and are generally faster than Starmie and hit hard with Thunder. Starmie is frail anyways and wouldn't do well against most rain teams, especially with the high Scizor usage. Mew, on the other hand, can handle any rain team threat bar Hydration and Reuniclus with my given set. 'Critical for success' is a pretty large exaggeration.
EDIT:

Edit:
Scizor is working really well as a replacement for Mew. Mew was doing well, but it just takes away from the pure power that the team was. Scizor checks most of what Mew checked by using Bullet Punch and Pursuit to take care of common sand threats while Mew could only hope to burn the slower ones.

'Burning the slower ones' doesn't make much sense to me. Mew is pretty fast with my given set, and it outspeeds anything it should be outspeeding(Gliscor, Dragonite, Salamence, Scizor, Landorus, etc.) and absorbing the blows that it doesn't(some of the above Pokémon can outspeed with certain sets). The 80 Sp. Def and burn make it so that Mew will always be able to absorb a blow and heal back up. Then all there is left is to stall it out with Ice Beam and the like. While Scizor does check similar threats, it negates your team from the defensive backbone it needs, and Mew will also hold its own much better than Scizor due to it not being locked into a move. If you're having trouble with it, I would suggest giving it more time or take mental notes on who you shouldn't bring it out on. A good way to do this is to build a threat list.

 

[XcRunner]

Mew doesn't outspeed Landorus, Terrakion, or Latios, which are the main threats to my team atm. On the other hand, Mew helps me deal w/ stall teams which are a pain. Yeah, I'm going to be doing the threat list real soon. I'm a bit busy atm. It'll hopefully be up tomorrow. Although I am going to be testing both Scizor and Mew on the team replacing Starmie for Mew.

 

[KorKonT]

Mew doesn't outspeed Landorus, Terrakion, or Latios, which are the main threats to my team atm. On the other hand, Mew helps me deal w/ stall teams which are a pain. Yeah, I'm going to be doing the threat list real soon. I'm a bit busy atm. It'll hopefully be up tomorrow. Although I am going to be testing both Scizor and Mew on the team replacing Starmie for Mew.

Mew isn't exactly the type of Pokemon you should be sending out against these guys. He's used more as a niche counter. I would check out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBqmZXDSz28 if you want ideas on when to use it. I would actually suggest you use BOTH Scizor and Mew.

 

[aVocado]

KorKonT sorry but you know nothing and you're still talking like you know everything.

Interesting team, but it doesn't look much like a hail team to me. It pretty much looks like Abomasnow is there just to neutralize the opponent's weather advantage so you can sweep.

Isn't that enough reason to use a 'hail team' ? You think to use hail correct, you must use a Blizzard Kyurem ? Sorry, but you've never used hail, played against it, or have ANY experience with it. Most if not all weather teams use their weather only to cancel other weather, and don't even need 'abusers'.. Abomasnow works very good on today's metagame, not only he cancels other weather and puts on his own, but he revenge kills Dragonite, Salamence, Haxorus, Lati@s, and Gliscor perfectly with Ice Shard, and not to mention he OHKO's and outspeeds standard Tyranitar with Wood Hammer. Is that not enough to use him? And to add more, he can even use Leech Seed perfectly with the ability to drain up to 18% each turn thank to Leech Seed and hail damage.

I must say, spinning isn't terribly necessary for Salamence in my opinion. And also, I fail to see how Starmie is any better at handling rain teams. Boosted Hydro Pump? Doesn't matter, as most rain abusers resist water moves and are generally faster than Starmie and hit hard with Thunder. Starmie is frail anyways and wouldn't do well against most rain teams, especially with the high Scizor usage. Mew, on the other hand, can handle any rain team threat bar Hydration and Reuniclus with my given set. 'Critical for success' is a pretty large exaggeration.

252 SpAtk Life Orb Starmie Hydro Pump vs 252 HP/0 SpDef Scizor: 111.05% - 130.81% (Guaranteed OHKO)

You do know that Scizor and Forretress are very common in rain teams, right ? And guess what ? Starmie OHKO's both under the rain. Ferrothorn, while also being common, is the only Pokemon Starmie can't really hurt much under the rain, but that's besides the point.

Starmie also 2HKO's non-defensive Politoed with stealth rock, and has a very high chance of 2HKOing without stealth rock. Same goes for both Latios and Dragonite. Breloom is a guaranteed OHKO after stealth rock as well. Starmie also outspeeds and OHKO's Landorus and Tornadus.

So tell me, how is Starmie not very good against rain teams ?

'Burning the slower ones' doesn't make much sense to me. Mew is pretty fast with my given set, and it outspeeds anything it should be outspeeding(Gliscor, Dragonite, Salamence, Scizor, Landorus, etc.) and absorbing the blows that it doesn't(some of the above Pokémon can outspeed with certain sets). The 80 Sp. Def and burn make it so that Mew will always be able to absorb a blow and heal back up. Then all there is left is to stall it out with Ice Beam and the like. While Scizor does check similar threats, it negates your team from the defensive backbone it needs, and Mew will also hold its own much better than Scizor due to it not being locked into a move. If you're having trouble with it, I would suggest giving it more time or take mental notes on who you shouldn't bring it out on. A good way to do this is to build a threat list.

This is wrong, Mew doesn't outspeed neither Salamence nor Landorus, hence why XcRunner is having problems; he's not outspeeding the sweepers that are very dangerous to his team. Mew can't work good for his team because of that reason.

Please, next time you 'rate' a team, make sure you know enough to do so.

 

[KorKonT]

KorKonT sorry.....
...Please, next time you 'rate' a team, make sure you know enough to do so.

Some things:
-I clearly said "and absorbing the blows that it doesn't(some of the above Pokémon can outspeed with certain sets)" after my mention of Salamence getting outsped by Mew. I am aware that Salamence outspeeds when it runs a +Spe, but here's a calculation:

Let's assume that Salamence is using a Naive nature, due to it outpacing Mew before a burn:

Salamence 369 atk Outrage w/ Choice Band: 303-357 damage, guarunteed 2HKO. <this is a set Mew cannot beat, even if it gets a burn. I understand this.

Salamence 369 atk Outrage w/o Choice Band: 202-238 damage, Small chance for 2HKO after leftovers health. <this is one Mew CAN beat, due to Will-o-Wisp and Roost.Also, if Mew lands a burn after this on the non-choice set:

Salamence 369 atk Burned Outrage w/o Choice Band: 102-120 damage, 304-358 total damage. <this will allow Mew to Roost off the damage and stall Salamence out.

As you can see from the above, Mew isn't a perfect counter to Salamence, hence why I said to use "BOTH Scizor and Mew" in a later post. This also is with Salamence's strongest move, Outrage, which it doesn't always run/use.

A similar story also plays out for Landorus, who has a lower attack stat and gets outsped without a +speed nature, and has weaker attacks compared to STAB Outrage. The only one I said outsped that I was wrong about was Latios, and I apologize for that.

Regarding Dragon Dance: If they try to use it while Mew is out(they often will, underestimating the guy), you can use Will-o-Wisp still and get a stall continuing still. Also: Mew can use Ice Beam on an offensive Salamence and get a Guaranteed OHKO due to it often using Naive nature(-Sp. Def) and no HP investment. This makes it so that Mew can beat even the banded set.

Also, Kyurem was simply a suggestion. I figured if he had the weather up, he might as well use it to his advantage. I knew of strategies relating to negating weather, and I think this team executes it well.

Either way, I'm sorry if I was sounding like I knew everything. I know I don't. There might be some false info here, so I'm sorry for that. I'm not NEW to competitive Pokemon, but I'm definitely not the best.

I think Mew would be a good choice for the team, but I can see why Scizor would fit the slot better. Once again, I'm sorry for the false info.
You're right about Starmie. Sorry.
Inb4 I'm told I am wrong/know it all. At least I said sorry...