SM OU An Alola Experiment

[GAK]

Introduction

As seems to happen with any new Pokemon game, Sun and Moon have brought me back into the competitive spirit and I was inspired/motivated to put together a team and start playing with it on PS. I'm certain this team has many flaws and after testing it out, I'm not exactly pleased with it myself. I've already made a few changes, which are noted below, to the team since I first created it. I look forward to your feedback and suggestions. This team is basically my attempt at experimenting with the new additions to the game and trying to get a feel for the current metagame.​

Team In-Depth

Incineroar (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Fake Out
- Flame Charge
- U-turn
- Will-O-Wisp

Incineroar is the Pokemon I started out with when building this team because I wanted to use him as a lead. Yeah, I realize it's kind of unusual to start with a lead in mind (especially now that we can choose a new lead each battle - I'm old school sorry). I originally carried Protect instead of Flame Charge to be more traditional, but I found that Incineroar, thanks to his bulkiness, was sticking around late-game in most battles and so I wanted more offense on him to make him less of a lead/support. I also figured the speed boost could be nice. Fake Out/U-Turn are my go-to lead moves for scouting and WoW is just nice to have when my opponent starts with a physical attacker. Note: I intend to make its ability Intimidate instead of Blaze as soon as its available.

Drampa @ Life Orb
Ability: Berserk
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Dragon Pulse
- Calm Mind

This is a new addition to the team (new is relative, the whole team is "new" considering SM isn't a month old yet). I originally had DD Gyarados here and he was working great, but I realized I needed another special attacker so I decided to give Drampa a try. I haven't been disappointed so far. The abundance of fairies (looking at you, Tapus) makes it hard to stay in with a CM set up but hopefully that becomes less of an issues once the metagame settles and Tapus aren't so cool. I do like having the Thunderbolt coverage that I didn't have before too, it's been helpful and can KO some threats with a CM (or Berserk) behind it. I ran Life Orb to help get to Berserk faster as well as power up its moves.

Mudsdale @ Choice Band
Ability: Stamina
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Close Combat
- Heavy Slam
- Rock Slide

This is another new one that I added because I wanted to try it out and see how Banded Mudsdale would play out with its bulk supporting it. So far I haven't had many opportunities to really use it to its full potential, but its natural bulk + stamina provide plenty of room to switch in, take some hits, and wittle down a foe's health or KO some. Mudsdale is honestly one of my favorites from SM at the moment, it's pretty incredible with its potential.

Salazzle @ Leftovers
Ability: Corrosion
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Toxic
- Flamethrower
- Taunt
- Protect

This is one of my few support 'mons among a bunch of all-out attackers but it's been nice to have. I am thinking about adding an actual poison attack to deal with fairies, I just don't know what I want to swap out for it. Flamethrower has been helpful but now that I have Flame Charge on Incinceroar I don't really need it as much. We'll see. Toxic has been a huge help with crippling/killing some threats and taunt has also been useful to block some stallers that seem to be quite common right now.

Aerodactyl-Mega @ Aerodactylite
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Claw
- Pursuit
- Rock Slide
- Fly

I added Mega Aero on a whim when I was originally building the team for coverage and it's been helpful. I wanted a flying type mainly and so I added Fly as one of its best flying moves, and I've been surprised at how powerful it is honestly. Rock Slide and Pursuit have also been helpful for coverage. I wouldn't be opposed to switching Aero out for something else, but I couldn't really think of much else that would be better and provide the same/similar coverage.

Primarina @ Choice Specs
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Energy Ball
- Moonblast
- Shadow Ball
- Scald

Similar to Banded Mudsdale, I wanted to test out Specs Primarina and I'm less thrilled about this as I am with Mudsdale honestly. It's harder to come in and get a hit without being hit with a super effective attack or being resisted and Primarina doesn't have the same power or defense that I want. I might change it to a Tapu Fini or something else entirely, but I'm not sure at the moment.​

 

[Andreuz]

First, I have a simple question for you. Have you thought out your team, or did you just threw some mons randomly ? I'm sorry if I sound rude, but your team, first and foremost, lacks a real win condition. I guess Aerodactyl could clean a weakened team, but there are some other problems. Let me get to them Pokémon by Pokémon. By the way, is it Pokebank or Prebank ? I'm gonna assume it's Prebank, since those are only gen7 Pokemons, and you can't handle the meta at all, if its Post Bank.

Incineroar doesn't seem to be a good lead. You can't force any of the popular leads out, like sash Mamoswine or Lycanroc. You don't have a fast taunt to stop them from laying down rocks, just barely breaking their Focus sash, then burning/U-turning out. Moreover, you have no way of getting rid of the rocks you couldn't stop from going down, so they are here to stay. If you really want to lead with him, you'll need two things : hazard control, and another spread/moves. Flame Charge is a poor choice for a defensive Incineroar. It barely OHKOes even Pheromosa, which has paper thin defenses. Speaking of paper, to illustrate what I'm saying : 4 Atk Incineroar Flame Charge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kartana: 196-232 (75.6 - 89.5%). Sure Kartana has a good physical bulk but we're talking x4 weakness coming from base 115 attack. Especially if you don't invest in Attack, you need Flare Blitz's high BP in order not to be a sitting duck(cat?). To be fair, Defensive Incineroar doesn't seem that good before it has access to Intimidate. Maybe go offensive with Fake Out / Flare Blitz / Darkest Lariat / U-turn or Cross Chop, with a 88 HP / 252 Atk / 168 Spe spread and Expert belt, maybe ?. Then, after breaking their Sash, you can kill them if they go for SR or U-turn out if you feel they are going to switch out.

I get the feeling that Drampa, especially LO Drampa, will get worn down really quickly without Roost. Roost allows you to activate Berserk more than once, and compensates for the LO recoil. But you then lose one of your attacking moves. I can't tell you to go without STABs, but the BoltBeam coverage is indead good. Maybe a more bulky set to abuse Berserk, since you can drop Calm Mind and gain Spa with your ability ? I don't know, really.

For Mudsdale, I don't really know what to say. Sure, it's bulky and has quite a good attack stat, but I'm not conviced. It may hit hard, but you're completely walled by Celesteela, which is everywhere (Curse this Bamboo Princess). I had the feeling it was more suited to defensive sets, like ResTalk or Assault Vest ; but I may be completly wrong on this point.

Your Salazzle set is right between two things. Or you want to be an annoying prick with this Pokemon, or you want to sweep. Its support movepool is actually great, with Taunt, Encore, WoW, (obviously) Toxic, Disable and Venom Drench. Pick your poison, if i say so myself :). A speedy SubToxic staller is really annoying to face. Or, go wreck havoc with an offensive Salazzle with LO or Air Balloon. Even offensive sets enjoy havin the unstoppable Toxic, by the way.

Aerodactyl-M is a great mon, but your set isn't, sorry :/ First and foremost, Fly is a waste of a moveslot, except for some cases (Flynium Z on Lando or the SubFly Dnite for example). Just go for Aerial Ace for your Flying STAB. It's boosted by Tough Claw to a decent enough base of 90. Don't use Dragon Claw, like ever. I heard once that Dragon is one of the best STABs, but one of the worst coverage types ; and that's totally true. Waisting a moveslot only for Dragon types, when you have something else in your kit to smack them, isn't worth it. If you wanna get rid of Dragon Types, use Ice Fang. By the way, I'd suggest Stone Edge in place of Rock Slide, but I can get that you hate missing. Pursuit is intersting, but Earthquake, or even Hone Claws may be better.

Finally, Primarina. Don't try to outspeed things with her, just use her Special Bulk to bring her against things that can't touch you, and scare them away. Or smack them extra hard. 252+ SpA Choice Specs Primarina Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Toxapex: 178-210 (58.5 - 69%) -- guaranteed 2HKO. Damn, that isn't half bad. Primarina can take even some of the most powerful neutral Special Attacks, and fire off a huge counter attack, even Timid Specs Tapu Lele's Psychic in Psychic Terrain has only a 6% chance to OHKO with a 168 HP / 252 Spa / 88 Spe spread, when you have 50% to kill in return. By the way, the Specs set can really use Hydro Pump in place of Scald. The drop of power in noticeable.

To be fair, you team needs some serious work to be competitive. In Prebank, Pheromosa runs all over you, Tapu Lele's psychic is only walled thanks to Incineroar Dark type, you have no answer to electric spam's usual coverage... In Postbank, I can only guess it's even worse. You can definitely use a team with some of your favorite Pokémon, but it has to be thought out. A lot of gen7 mons need a team built around them, or are niche picks. Lurk around here, especially in the Uncharted Territory and SM analysis. They are great posts outlining the strenghts and weaknesses of a lot of Pokémon. I can only wish you the best of luck, and am always willing to give advices, tho remember I may not be the best one for this task :)

 

[GAK]

First of all, thank you for your feedback. This is exactly what I wanted/needed.

First, I have a simple question for you. Have you thought out your team, or did you just threw some mons randomly ? I'm sorry if I sound rude, but your team, first and foremost, lacks a real win condition. I guess Aerodactyl could clean a weakened team, but there are some other problems. Let me get to them Pokémon by Pokémon. By the way, is it Pokebank or Prebank ? I'm gonna assume it's Prebank, since those are only gen7 Pokemons, and you can't handle the meta at all, if its Post Bank.

I did think it out as I was building it, but it was primarily from a "type coverage" perspective to cover myself against various threats and make sure I didn't have too many single weaknesses. I guess it would be PreBank, I was playing on the "SM OU" ladder. I didn't realize Aero was pre-bank but maybe it is being a fossil lol.

Incineroar doesn't seem to be a good lead. You can't force any of the popular leads out, like sash Mamoswine or Lycanroc. You don't have a fast taunt to stop them from laying down rocks, just barely breaking their Focus sash, then burning/U-turning out. Moreover, you have no way of getting rid of the rocks you couldn't stop from going down, so they are here to stay. If you really want to lead with him, you'll need two things : hazard control, and another spread/moves. Flame Charge is a poor choice for a defensive Incineroar. It barely OHKOes even Pheromosa, which has paper thin defenses. Speaking of paper, to illustrate what I'm saying : 4 Atk Incineroar Flame Charge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kartana: 196-232 (75.6 - 89.5%). Sure Kartana has a good physical bulk but we're talking x4 weakness coming from base 115 attack. Especially if you don't invest in Attack, you need Flare Blitz's high BP in order not to be a sitting duck(cat?). To be fair, Defensive Incineroar doesn't seem that good before it has access to Intimidate. Maybe go offensive with Fake Out / Flare Blitz / Darkest Lariat / U-turn or Cross Chop, with a 88 HP / 252 Atk / 168 Spe spread and Expert belt, maybe ?. Then, after breaking their Sash, you can kill them if they go for SR or U-turn out if you feel they are going to switch out.

A more offensive set might not be a bad idea here. Honestly I went into Incinceroar wanting Intimidate and then remembered its a HA. Dang it. I certainly see how the more offensive version would be beneficial, especially since it tends to last awhile in most of my battles so far.

I get the feeling that Drampa, especially LO Drampa, will get worn down really quickly without Roost. Roost allows you to activate Berserk more than once, and compensates for the LO recoil. But you then lose one of your attacking moves. I can't tell you to go without STABs, but the BoltBeam coverage is indead good. Maybe a more bulky set to abuse Berserk, since you can drop Calm Mind and gain Spa with your ability ? I don't know, really.

I was actually thinking the same thing of CM and Berserk being redundant. I'm not opposed to getting rid of its Dragon STAB, as you say later Dragon doesn't give the coverage I need when I only need to switch to a fairy to stop a dragon most of the time. I'll play around with a Life Orb set and see how it goes.

For Mudsdale, I don't really know what to say. Sure, it's bulky and has quite a good attack stat, but I'm not conviced. It may hit hard, but you're completely walled by Celesteela, which is everywhere (Curse this Bamboo Princess). I had the feeling it was more suited to defensive sets, like ResTalk or Assault Vest ; but I may be completly wrong on this point.

I originally was thinking the same thing about Mudsdale being more defensive and it can certainly do that, even while I was playing the main story in the game (it's ability is too good). That's why I wanted to test on CB and see how it does offensively. The "surprise" element of being Banded instead of defensive has actually helped a bit, but I can't really rely on that long term. I'll probably keep playing with the CB set and tweak it for awhile before switching to a defensive model.

Your Salazzle set is right between two things. Or you want to be an annoying prick with this Pokemon, or you want to sweep. Its support movepool is actually great, with Taunt, Encore, WoW, (obviously) Toxic, Disable and Venom Drench. Pick your poison, if i say so myself :). A speedy SubToxic staller is really annoying to face. Or, go wreck havoc with an offensive Salazzle with LO or Air Balloon. Even offensive sets enjoy havin the unstoppable Toxic, by the way.

To be honest, I was leaning more towards the annoying side but I can see how I've got mixes of both sets on this now. I really hate playing stall, but I might give SubToxic Salazzle a shot.

Aerodactyl-M is a great mon, but your set isn't, sorry :/ First and foremost, Fly is a waste of a moveslot, except for some cases (Flynium Z on Lando or the SubFly Dnite for example). Just go for Aerial Ace for your Flying STAB. It's boosted by Tough Claw to a decent enough base of 90. Don't use Dragon Claw, like ever. I heard once that Dragon is one of the best STABs, but one of the worst coverage types ; and that's totally true. Waisting a moveslot only for Dragon types, when you have something else in your kit to smack them, isn't worth it. If you wanna get rid of Dragon Types, use Ice Fang. By the way, I'd suggest Stone Edge in place of Rock Slide, but I can get that you hate missing. Pursuit is intersting, but Earthquake, or even Hone Claws may be better.

I like a lot of this. I can definitely swap Fly for Aerial Ace - I added Fly because it was the best flying STAB I could find in its movepool. Somehow I missed seeing AA. I agree with you on Dragon Claw, I have yet to use it even once now that I think about it. I'm all for Stone Edge's crit ratio but the miss chance bothers me and doesn't sound ideal in pinches, which I often find myself in lol. I'll play around with new moves in general and see what works.

Finally, Primarina. Don't try to outspeed things with her, just use her Special Bulk to bring her against things that can't touch you, and scare them away. Or smack them extra hard. 252+ SpA Choice Specs Primarina Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Toxapex: 178-210 (58.5 - 69%) -- guaranteed 2HKO. Damn, that isn't half bad. Primarina can take even some of the most powerful neutral Special Attacks, and fire off a huge counter attack, even Timid Specs Tapu Lele's Psychic in Psychic Terrain has only a 6% chance to OHKO with a 168 HP / 252 Spa / 88 Spe spread, when you have 50% to kill in return. By the way, the Specs set can really use Hydro Pump in place of Scald. The drop of power in noticeable.

Primarina has actually been a great Toxapex check so far, it's been nice. My biggest issue with Primarina though is predicting the switch-in to get locked into the right move since there's almost always a switch out when I bring her in, but that's more on me and my style than the team. I'll change those EVs around and swap in Hydro Pump for sure.

To be fair, you team needs some serious work to be competitive. In Prebank, Pheromosa runs all over you, Tapu Lele's psychic is only walled thanks to Incineroar Dark type, you have no answer to electric spam's usual coverage... In Postbank, I can only guess it's even worse. You can definitely use a team with some of your favorite Pokémon, but it has to be thought out. A lot of gen7 mons need a team built around them, or are niche picks. Lurk around here, especially in the Uncharted Territory and SM analysis. They are great posts outlining the strenghts and weaknesses of a lot of Pokémon. I can only wish you the best of luck, and am always willing to give advices, tho remember I may not be the best one for this task :)

I likely won't be using this postBank, at least not as it looks now. I'll probably keep playing with this for a bit and then pick out a couple "MVPs" and build a new team around then. Again, thanks for the feedback. This was very helpful. :)

 

[Andreuz]

I did think it out as I was building it, but it was primarily from a "type coverage" perspective to cover myself against various threats and make sure I didn't have too many single weaknesses. I guess it would be PreBank, I was playing on the "SM OU" ladder. I didn't realize Aero was pre-bank but maybe it is being a fossil lol.

Yeah, SM OU is prebank. Post bank meta is named Pokébank OU for now :) Aerodactyl is actually given out ingame in the 4rth island :)

I was actually thinking the same thing of CM and Berserk being redundant. I'm not opposed to getting rid of its Dragon STAB, as you say later Dragon doesn't give the coverage I need when I only need to switch to a fairy to stop a dragon most of the time. I'll play around with a Life Orb set and see how it goes.

The point of my quote on dragon attacks is that Dragon actually has amazing neutral coverage, so it's a great STAB. It doesn't hit much super effectively though, and that's what you are looking for in a coverage move. Besides Steel and Fairy, everything takes at least neutral damage. So you can actually go Dragon Pulse / Flamethrower / Roost / Hyper Voice and touch pretty much the whole meta neutrally, while having a STAB that bypasses Subs and Misty Terrain. Seems decent, actually :)

To be honest, I was leaning more towards the annoying side but I can see how I've got mixes of both sets on this now. I really hate playing stall, but I might give SubToxic Salazzle a shot.

No one's saying to go stall. A set made of Toxic / Sub / Disable / Venoshock or Fire Blast isn't here to stall, you barely have defenses. You just annoy the shit out of the other player, and spread status by forcing switches. But you can go dual stabs+ hidden power of choice + toxic :)

Primarina has actually been a great Toxapex check so far, it's been nice. My biggest issue with Primarina though is predicting the switch-in to get locked into the right move since there's almost always a switch out when I bring her in, but that's more on me and my style than the team. I'll change those EVs around and swap in Hydro Pump for sure.

Just click Hydro Pump, at least early game. Physically Defensive Tapu Fini takes 30% on specs Hydro Pump. She won't be able to tank it forever. 248/8 Tapu Bulu is 2HKO'd after Stealth Rocks 64% of the time without Leftovers. Can't think of other water resists right now, but there are some. Of course, if there's a Toxapex, maybe click Psychic. Anyway, you're not forced to predict right all the time. The point of Specs Primarina is to soften walls for another Mon to break through :)

I likely won't be using this postBank, at least not as it looks now. I'll probably keep playing with this for a bit and then pick out a couple "MVPs" and build a new team around then. Again, thanks for the feedback. This was very helpful. :)

My pleasure, believe me :) If you want to, we can chat on Showdown directly