Implemented Alumni Trophies

Status
Not open for further replies.

SoulWind

is a Community Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributoris a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis the 6th Smogon Classic Winneris the Smogon Tour Season 32 Championwon the 9th Official Ladder Tournamentis a defending SPL Championis a defending World Cup of Pokemon Championis a Two-Time Past SPL Championis a Past SCL Champion
Big Chungus Winner
The TD team has been discussing about removing alumni trophies for good. We believe there isn't any reason to have them separated from the current winners because it makes it feel as if they are less important when it shouldn't be the case. As of this moment, this is just a suggestion and we would like to see what the community thinks, but here are some of the proposals:

  • Have them stack like we do with individual trophies; so if anyone won SPL 3 times, they would have 3 red trophies on the badgeset
  • Have an unique colored trophy representing each team tour (World Cup, SPL and Snake) and as you hover on it, it would show which editions you have won
  • Keep everything as it is

Let us know what you think and make it a civilized discussion.
 

Katy

Banned deucer.
Have an unique colored trophy representing each team tour (World Cup, SPL and Snake) and as you hover on it, it would show which editions you have won
I think this is the best solution, as then the username appears to be less messy alongside the badges and ribbons which they have. Allows for a clear indication, what the user has won and which tour it was, kinda like what we do have with the individual trophies, when one person hovers over them it gives a clear indication, which season they won.

I think the 2nd solution might be the best in this case.
 

Kalalokki

is a Site Content Manageris a Top Social Media Contributoris an Artistis a Member of Senior Staffis a Community Contributoris a Smogon Discord Contributoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Top Smogon Media Contributoris an Administrator Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Sprite Leader
Surprised Quite Quiet didn't tell you all how much of a pain #2 is, which I once explained about back in the ribbon thread in November. And since QQ didn't get anywhere practical with the built-in Xenforo trophy system mentioned back then, it means that with current code and programming it's not going to be smooth for any of the SS involved with doing trophy upkeep.
 
Last edited:
The problem with the 2nd proposal is that you get into a weird inconsistency situation when comparing individuals to teamtours wherein it's questionable why you could have several trophies for the same individual but teamtours would only have one in the badgeset. I think all tournaments should have the same treatment in this respect, whether individual or teamtour, if the td team moves forward with this proposal. Personal rankings are 2 (assuming it's consistently applied) = 3 > 1.
 
I don't know if this is a perfect solution, but it's something I've been messing around with. One idea could be going with color coded 'rings' or borders around the trophy sprites to indicate a number of wins at a glance. For example, a gold ring indicating 3+ wins, a silver ring indicating 2 wins and a bronze ring indicating 1 win. You can separate SPL, WCoP and SSD/SCL that way, without overloading the postbits. This is how these sprites could look:

-
-
-


Hover texts would indicate which specific editions of the tournaments were won, too. You could still opt to go with alumned trophies for past winners and active trophies for defending champions, while separating the three tournaments, but I don't think that's necessary. For example, this is how the following profiles would look using this format:















Another option could be coloring the backgrounds of the sprites, instead of the borders, given that the borders are just the one pixel wide, making it a little less visible at a glance than a colored background. For example:

-
-


I personally prefer the colored borders, but this could be an alternative. I'm confident there is a genius solution out there that strikes a balance between removing alumned trophies and avoiding hugely overloaded postbits, so I'm excited to see how this thread turns out. SoulWind, you guys (as in, the TD team) should reach out to artists and other creative people on Smogon, too. They're a lot better at this stuff than we tournament players generally are.
 

Raiza

is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Top Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Two-Time Past SPL Championis a Past WCoP Championis a Former Old Generation Tournament Circuit Champion
World Defender
The only issue I have with the current trophy sistem is how different team tour trophies don't stack, so if someone won all of WCOP, SPL and SCL, they only have 1 grey trophy to show for it. Not only that but it also makes it so you have to necessarily hover on their trophy to know which of these tournaments they have won, giving less value to the trophy because the majority of people just won't bother hovering.

Other than keeping everything as it is I feel like the second option would be the most viable, although instead of giving them a truly new unique colour I'd just use a darker shade of the colour they already have.

So someone who won all of WCOP SPL and Snake instead of having a single grey trophy:

would have something like:

In comparison to current trophies:

You could probably make them darker / adjust them, this is to just give a rough idea

While I was writing this Tony in his post gave some other examples as well. The border idea could be something nice to eventually add as well. This would solve the issues of grey trophies not really being stackable because of the same colour, while fixing the issue of possibly having won multiple WCOPs, SPLs and SCLs and only having a single grey trophy to show for it, and making it less confusing for whoever is browsing and wondering which teamtour somebody won.
 

Lumari

empty spaces
is a Site Content Manageris a Top Social Media Contributoris a Member of Senior Staffis a Community Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Top Smogon Media Contributoris an Administrator Alumnus
TFP Leader
Kala already sniped but yea I should probably clarify quick that option 2 is straight up unmanageable from a code pov with our current setup. Every trophy holder is put in their own usergroup, just like everyone in x badgeholder usergroup or access group, and trophy image + corresponding hovertext are then added separately to every usergroup through a github file. Image and hovertext are also added together and can't be separated out from each other, that's also why e.g. all OLT winners have to be in separate usergroups even though they all have the same image on their postbit.

What option 2 is essentially asking is personalised usergroups for all the individual team tour trophy holders that we have (way too many and way too messy, not gonna work..), which we also couldn't even start to implement until we know who the winners are i.e. when the tour is already over (e.g. I can't add a group for "won SPL 4, 8, and 13" before the user that it would apply to has actually won SPL 13. And even leaving my personal feelings on this sort of upkeep aside, surely you guys remember just as unfondly as I do the times when individual tour winners had to wait weeks for their trophies to show up?).

Option 1 on the other hand is very straightforward in that sense, it'd just be separate trophies per tour that could be created ahead of time and given to as many users as needed, and that's it, exact same setup as individual trophy winners just with multiple holders. And while like I said anything with individualised hovertexts isn't gonna be an option, stuff like separating out alum trophies is definitely doable, as is (probably) having multiple winner trophies like Hogg's suggestion; though once again for the sake of organisation there should probably be a cap if this angle is taken, e.g. anyone with 3 or more rings would receive the same trophy. As long as people would just keep separate trophies for every teamtour and we're ditching the current alum trophy setup, this'll be okay from a usergroup pov.

Lastly, I'm not exactly comfortable getting involved with the actual discussion here short of commenting on what's possible from the tech side, but re. the argument that option 1 would be too ostentatious, it'd probably be good to take a look at the hall of fame for context / how this'd actually look in practice; there's absolutely a few people whose postbits would explode from option 1, but overall there's gonna be pretty few people here that would receive more than an additional 2 trophies from that change. Whether or not that's still too much is up to others to figure out imo.
 

Oglemi

Borf
is a Forum Moderatoris a Top Contributoris a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnusis a Top Dedicated Tournament Host Alumnus
Personally think 1 would be cool for people to have totally blinged out badgesets, ie. BKC with 5 wcop trophies etc. The clutter issue is already kinda solved with the scrolling.

There's always those that say this would cause trophy inflation and lessen the value of a trophy but I've never thought that. Just looking through teal's HoF looks cool imo. Seeing that on badgesets would be a plus not a minus to me
 
Remove the merging of different team tours. elodin for example should have 3 different grey trophies. Beyond that I’m pretty skeptical of making team tours exactly like indivs because of different prestige / clutter issues. Toying with hovertexts like noting which specific, multiple team tours won sounds cool but if it’s not feasible then yea.

edit: maybe alumns can have colors w borders so alumn spl = red border??? also don’t hate the idea of stacking alumns tbh
 
Last edited:

peng

Unmasked
is a Community Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnus
Is there an option for a midground where people get a coloured trophy for every won tour no matter how old (so BKC gets like 5 blue trophies or w/e stupid number), but then the most recent tournament is still distinct somehow? I understand concerns about devaluing the old tours hence removal of the grey trophy, but I still like being able to see both how decorated a player is and have a rough idea of how "in form" they have been in the last year.

Something like this (I pinched TonyFlygon's gold badge please and thank you)

1623437559364.png
- All past SPLs, 1-11

1623437549628.png
- Most recent, SPL12

This would probably be cool for individual tours too actually, its helpful to see at a glance when scrolling who has won a major tournament in the last 12 months.
 
Remove the merging of different team tours. elodin for example should have 3 different grey trophies. Beyond that I’m pretty skeptical of making team tours exactly like indivs because of different prestige / clutter issues. Toying with hovertexts like noting which specific, multiple team tours won sounds cool but if it’s not feasible then yea.

edit: maybe alumns can have colors w borders so alumn spl = red border??? also don’t hate the idea of stacking alumns tbh
I think keeping alumns is a better idea than simply unstacking and colouring everything for the reasons in this post. The ideas in this post are also the most appealing to me.

I don't know if my vision is getting worse or something, but I can barely make out the borders on the trophies Tony posted, and I'm not a fan of the crazy backgrounds in terms of aesthetics. Maybe something like these would work?

 

Boat

fuck nintendo
is a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Staff Alumnusis a Dedicated Tournament Host Alumnus
Taking into account the feedback received in the thread, and the limitation of the forum software, we've limited our options to a few that we'd like to see which is more popular.

1. Removing alumni trophies altogether, and just have people keep their red / blue / green trophy. If we go with this option, should reigning champions have a shiny trophy to mark that?

2. Split the general alumni trophy into SPL, WCop, and SSD / SCL. Using ABR's example, elodin would have three distinct grey trophies.

Regardless of the option chosen, we also have the option to add hovertext that says how many times they won that particular tournament. For example, BKC's World Cup trophy would say something along the lines of "Is a 5 Time WCop Champion" or "Is a 5 Time Past WCop Champion" depending on which of the above is chosen.

We'd love to hear which of these two particular options is preferrable, as well as thoughts on the hovertext.
 
Taking into account the feedback received in the thread, and the limitation of the forum software, we've limited our options to a few that we'd like to see which is more popular.

1. Removing alumni trophies altogether, and just have people keep their red / blue / green trophy. If we go with this option, should reigning champions have a shiny trophy to mark that?

2. Split the general alumni trophy into SPL, WCop, and SSD / SCL. Using ABR's example, elodin would have three distinct grey trophies.

Regardless of the option chosen, we also have the option to add hovertext that says how many times they won that particular tournament. For example, BKC's World Cup trophy would say something along the lines of "Is a 5 Time WCop Champion" or "Is a 5 Time Past WCop Champion" depending on which of the above is chosen.

We'd love to hear which of these two particular options is preferrable, as well as thoughts on the hovertext.
I think option 2 is preferable for the sake of putting due emphasis on individual achievement and recency of achievement. As for the hover text, I think it sounds like a good idea, but what happens when they are the defending champion? Does the info disappear until they lose again?
 

Boat

fuck nintendo
is a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Staff Alumnusis a Dedicated Tournament Host Alumnus
I think option 2 is preferable for the sake of putting due emphasis on individual achievement and recency of achievement. As for the hover text, I think it sounds like a good idea, but what happens when they are the defending champion? Does the info disappear until they lose again?
I think the info could stay. in option 2, the color on the trophy communicates that they are the defending champion, so the hovertext can still say "X time SPL champion" or whatever.
 
splitting + hovertext indicating how many times sounds wonderful, still interested in minor (emphasis on minor) color distinction between the now several alumn trophies tho (say, alumn trophy w blue border or 1 blue line???)
 
For sure 2 is the best option, otherwise any decorative version of the alumn is cheating the point of it and simply replacing the active version of the team tour trophy with a semi exclusive reskin.

While on the topic of improved hover text / unstacked alumns via option 2, I'd like to advocate for similar considerations and improvements for our ribbons. As one example of this, Ktutverde's ribbon should say "Former PU Circuit Champion" instead of the defaulted "Former Tournament Circuit Champion."
 
Last edited:
splitting + hovertext indicating how many times sounds wonderful, still interested in minor (emphasis on minor) color distinction between the now several alumn trophies tho (say, alumn trophy w blue border or 1 blue line???)
This is how that might look:

-
-






The more faded versions of each trophy - like how Earthworm suggested in this post - are a good option as well, in my opinion.

While on the topic of improved hover text / unstacked alumns via option 2, I'd like to advocate for similar considerations and improvements for our ribbons. As one example of this, Ktutverde's ribbon should say "Former PU Circuit Champion" instead of the defaulted "Former Tournament Circuit Champion."
I also agree with this. You could even have the hover text say "2019 PU Circuit Champion", for example. That way it's immediately clear which edition of the tournament someone has won.
 
Regardless of the option chosen, we also have the option to add hovertext that says how many times they won that particular tournament. For example, BKC's World Cup trophy would say something along the lines of "Is a 5 Time WCop Champion" or "Is a 5 Time Past WCop Champion" depending on which of the above is chosen.
Distinguishing the hover text more than that would be pretty bad too.
"Is a 5 Time WCoP Champion" and let the trophy color (grey/colored) do it's work by representing whether it's current or not. Keep in mind you'd have to do Option B for not only WCoP but SPL/SSD/SCL as well.

Option A:
(blue)
won recent 1: is a defending World Cup of Pokemon Champion
(grey)
won 1: is a World Cup of Pokemon Champion
won 2: is a two-time World Cup of Pokemon Champion
won 3: is a three-time World Cup of Pokemon Champion
won 4: is a four-time World Cup of Pokemon Champion
won 5: is a five-time World Cup of Pokemon Champion

Option B:
(blue)
won recent 1: is a defending World Cup of Pokemon Champion
won past 1 and recent 1: is a past and a defending World Cup of Pokemon Champion
won past 2 and recent 1: is a two-time past and defending World Cup of Pokemon Champion
won past 3 and recent 1: is a three-time past and defending World Cup of Pokemon Champion
won past 4 and recent 1: is a four-time past and a defending World Cup of Pokemon Champion
(grey)
won past 1: is a past World Cup of Pokemon Champion
won past 2: is a two-time past World Cup of Pokemon Champion
won past 3: is a three-time past World Cup of Pokemon Champion
won past 4: is a four-time past World Cup of Pokemon Champion
won past 5: is a five-time past World Cup of Pokemon Champion

Not only is the text getting pretty damn long, afaik cutting down same trophies w different hover texts is key to make this work. Having 6 titles (Option A) is already a huge step up from the current 2 (defending and past), while Option B might just be too much.

Obviously support splitting SPL/SSD/WCOP/SCL alumn trophies, it's the only way to make this work
 
Last edited:

Blazenix

浮気は犯罪行為
is an Artistis a Community Contributor
Since user-specific custom hovertexts are out of the realm of possibility as people have mentioned above, it seems like the best options are either stacking the trophies next to each other or having one trophy for reigning champions and another alumni trophy for any past iterations won of a given tour. My personal was to have them stack for both individuals as well as team tours because although I am no tournament player and most of the people here especially the ones holding said trophies are more aware of the value of individuals over team tour, I still cannot say that one more as to me it seems more like a way to create a hierarchy among different tournaments making some accomplishments seem greater than the other, which I'm not personally a fan of but with that said it leaves us with one direction to move in and taking it forward, I'd like to address some of the ideas people came up with for the alumni trophy and why they might not be the best. I'll make it clear that I am completely aware of the fact that the people who proposed these versions did not claim it to be the be all end all but instead just something to gauge the direction to move forward in, hence, my intentions are in no way to tell people what's right and wrong or that they should only listen to me or to say that my version is ultimately superior etc, I'm not about that at all but its rather to help people understand why I think so which will come in handy when I explain the thought process behind my versions. So Lets start.

For reference sake, these are the 3 current trophies I will be looking at mainly alongside the current alumni of their kind:
snake.png
spl.png
worldcup.png
teamalumni.png
teamalumni.png
teamalumni.png


Tony's version:
1.png
2.png


I definitely like the idea of a border around the trophy, however the major problem with this is that it goes against pretty much every other badge/trophy out there having a washed-out blue border, plus the visibility isn't so great. There's also an issue for the alumni trophies being indistinguishable from other tournaments.

Peng's Version:
4.jpg


I can call this nothing but ambitious, as this'd imply that all the current reigning trophies need to be revamped to a completely new style as well as the trophies people are current familiar with, being turned into alumni trophies instead which makes it even more confusing. This would've been fine otherwise.

Raiza's and Earthworm's versions:
3.png

5.jpg

Although these are probably my favorite ones out of all of these, the problem is that the point of a design is first and foremost to get the message across, if it takes a moment for the average person to distinguish alumni trophies from then something can be improved, I like the direction but I think alumni trophies should be more subtle looking and clearly speak (past champion) if that makes any sense.

Tony's other version:
6.png


This is probably the closest to practical out of all of these, I'd say. Gray trophies work best for alumni and the borders are pretty visible allowing for a clear distinguishability between each of them, the only issue is that they don't quite follow the same principles as the other badges/trophies,

With all of that said, I'll move on to the versions I made. The basis, if I didn't do a proper job at explaining them, are basically visibility, distinguishability and practicality. It needs to be clearly visible from the size you're supposed to be looking at it, it needs to be distinguishable from the reigning champion trophies as well as alumni trophies of the other kinds, and lastly it needs to work, as in, it needs to let you know within first glance that yes, this is an alumni trophy for x tournament. Here's the journey:

untitled-2.png


A closer look:

Screenshot_2.jpg


Going from top to bottom, I started with the border idea, didn't quite like it, started experimenting with the frame more instead, looks pretty ugly, highlighted the trophy with black outlines and then darker outlines on top, still didn't look well and just made it blend even more into the background messing with the visibility of it. I tried lowering the brightness and upping the saturation, it gave me an idea of bright colored outlines which started to give me a better sense of direction, bright outlines contrasting with the black outline right next to it make it clear when viewed from the appropriate size, then I started messing around a bit more adding another layer of a darker outline to blend it into the blue background, this time changing the trophies color back to normal instead of the darker one, however the blue didn't feel quite right, it also blended a bit too well in the WCoP trophy, so I decided to go back to the black background which I think is the best paired with gray, it keeps the same feel of the other reigning champion trophies while not distracting the attention from the trophy itself keep the clarity where it should be. Lastly I started tweaking slightly more and ended up with the standard border that we use for all the badges/trophies. Here's the finished version:

Trophies.png


Here's how they look on ElodinNotBurger's:

Preview.png

Preview_Dark.png


Now to close this, I don't mean to say this is the most perfect version by any means, I found it interesting so decided to share my opinion and worked on it a bit to show what directions we can take from here as well as my thoughts behind them. This is mainly a proposal if anything and I could be the only one who feels the way I do so feel free to share your thoughts or criticism if you have any, so that it can help improve what we are currently working with.​
 

Boat

fuck nintendo
is a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Staff Alumnusis a Dedicated Tournament Host Alumnus
Blazenix's was kind enough to take a shot at the alumni trophies at our request, and the result is spectacular. If they are well received, we'd be ready moving forward with separating the alumn trophies, adding Blazenix's new ones, and adding the counting hovertext.
 
I agree that the ones I made might be slightly tricky to distinguish from the defending champion trophies, good pickup.

My personal preference is "Tony's other version" currently, mainly because I feel like the added black border in Blazenix's final version gives the trophies a different character. They kind of look "cartoonish". That said, I am sure I could get used to Blazenix's version if it was implemented for a while. I doubt I'll be complaining when my trophies turn super saiyan.
 

Kevin Garrett

is a competitor
is a Top Tutor Alumnusis a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Site Content Manager Alumnusis an Artist Alumnusis a Senior Staff Member Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnusis the Smogon Tour Season 12 Championis a Three-Time Past SPL Champion
As well intended as the concept designs are here, they truthfully look unappealing. The basic trophy design is very clean and simple, but also bright and eye-catching. When more colors enter the equation, it ruins the whole aesthetic.

Like many have stated, it would be ideal to have the hover text signify the editions each trophy was won in its full color and thereby allowing for the retirement of the alumni trophies. Since that does not seem to be possible, leaving it alone is likely best (or simply adding a luster animation to the alumni trophy as implemented for top alumnus badges for users who possess more than 1 prior team tour championship).
 
Blazenix's was kind enough to take a shot at the alumni trophies at our request, and the result is spectacular. If they are well received, we'd be ready moving forward with separating the alumn trophies, adding Blazenix's new ones, and adding the counting hovertext.
Fully on board with the plan here but I prefer Tony’s traditional look with the colored borders more (Tony’s Other Version).
 

Ticken

Lotad & Bulbasaur Enthusiast
is a Top Tutoris a Tournament Directoris a Top Social Media Contributoris a Top Artistis a Programmeris a Member of Senior Staffis a Community Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Dedicated Tournament Host
B101 Leader
Hello all, I created my own take on how the differentiated alumni trophies could look. I wasn't too thrilled with the above choices, detailed in Blazenix's post, either because something feels like it's missing, it's too distracting, or it doesn't fit with the aesthetics of having other badges/trophies, as Kevin Garrett alluded to in their post. If using a gif is an option, and I assume so based on Hogg's post, I thought why not try merging the two? Here's what I dabbled with and created after some discussion with a couple friends:

spl-alumni-fade.gif
snake-alumni-fade.gif
wcop-alumni-fade.gif


I talked to Blazenix a bit over Discord and it's obvious there are conflicting opinions on how it should look and whether or not this should even be done. I believe the gifs above honor the traditional alumni trophy aesthetic while makes it clear what tour it was for. This is my version so the brightness, speed, and duration can all be changed if there's a better combination that I hadn't considered. I didn't want them to be too bright so they are distracting but yet bright enough that it looks pleasing. Similarly, I wanted it to flash so it catches your attention but also die down back to gray. Another note: They are the exact same speed as Top badges and the flash should appear in the first half of the shine animation, I believe.

I welcome input if there's any. I had other ideas but this is the most promising so I'd rather invest more into this than the others, as the others would get messy if we include a shine for multiple tour winners down the road. Ik it's been up for almost a month now so sorry for my late post! ^^
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top