AAA Almost Any Ability

:sv/tyranitar:
Tyranitar @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
Tera Type: Rock
EVs: 80 HP / 252 Atk / 60 SpA / 116 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Crunch
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Punch
- Iron Head

Sflo tyranitar is a strong attacker in its own right but its main use comes from the fact it can lure the most common physical walls in dondozo and corviknight for its teammates. Aside that niche its a generic mixed wallbreaker. With iron head it beats the fairies that might give it issues like scream tail and florges and ice punch allows it to crucially hit garchomp. Now for cons it is mostly walled by bulky slither wing and its low speed and mediocre bulk make it have issues hitting the field. Overall if played right it can destroy a crucial piece of the opposing team.

Thanks om cord for helping me a bit with the set.

Evs:
80 hp evs allows it to survive a corviknight body press
116 speed evs allows it to outspeed 0 speed florges
60 special attack evs are extra
 

cat

anemoia
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Scream Tail: The Balloon.

While this isn't a "ban this thing immediately" post, I'd just like to spark some conversation on it maybe?

For those Unaware, Scream Tail primarily uses Unaware as a great check to a variety of Setup Sweepers, such as Hariyama, Roaring Moon, Hatterene and others. Fairy is a good defensive typing (psychic just drags it down and prevents it from being clefable) and Scream Tail has a ton of natural bulk, allowing it to use Unaware to major success, fitting on Balance teams to Bulky Offense very well. Scream Tail also has access to a 16 PP Wish, giving it decently reliable recovery, as well as having the utility of passing its High HP wishes on to other teammates to allow them to get back in the game. Scream Tail uses Calm Mind + Dazzling Gleam as a way to force progress on Bulky Offense, and can use Thunder Wave over Calm Mind on more defensive teams. Protect is the final move, allowing Scream Tail to receive its own Wishes safely as well as maximise its Leftovers' passive healing and scouting the opponent's move on a Choice-Locked Pokemon, such as Meowscarada.

On the topic of Choice-Locked Pokemon, Scream Tail has a much more dangerous set, The Clicker. Why is it named The Clicker? Simple. Choice Specs Pixilate Boomburst. Capable of OHKOing many neutral targets such as Hisuian Zoroark and 2HKOing fragile resists like Gengar, (are my examples gonna be relevant in a week or two's time?) having a wide variety of coverage such as Flamethrower, Blizzard (i forgot does it get beam), Thunder(bolt), Psyshock and most annoyingly, Trick to shut down Blissey, Corviknight, opposing Scream Tail and many more, The Clicker is a very dangerous set to face when unprepared for it.

Why make a post on Balloon? It's quite simple. Zoroark seems to be getting from the majority of the suspect test votes, while Gengar has a less controversial story as of now. Regardless, they are the main drawback to Unaware Sets as they threaten an OHKO from Shadow Ball. Without one or even both of the Ghosts, Scream Tail will definitely rise in popularity. While I personally do not think it is overbearing to the point of needing a QB, I wouldn't mind more coverage on Scream Tail and would like to hear yalls thoughts.

Hello friends, short announcement today.

I am stepping down as AAA tier leader; I no longer play or build at a high enough level to really justify the spot, if I ever did. I've always viewed myself as an accidental tier leader, and the metagame is in an amazing spot flush with great contributors, resources, and an active playerbase.

I'll stay on council for now at least to keep helping out with resources, as that's the part I enjoy and felt I was good at, and of course I will still spread AAA propaganda all over PS! and SmogCord. Isaiah obviously will remain TL and very little will change on practical level, but it's time.

Thanks to every single person who has served on AAA council with me, y'all're great and truly what made AAA as successful as it is: Isaiah Osake hayedenn avyrie The Number Man Quantum Tesseract Jrdn Atha LordBox DeepFriedMagikarp

Now to make this needlessly dramatic, here's Taylor Swift.
Thank you Utility Talonflame for your efforts on the tier, sad to see you go but I'll always remember you as the AAA TL goat. you deserved the TL role dw
 

LordBox

you should love yourself... NOW!
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Scream Tail: The Balloon.

While this isn't a "ban this thing immediately" post, I'd just like to spark some conversation on it maybe?

For those Unaware, Scream Tail primarily uses Unaware as a great check to a variety of Setup Sweepers, such as Hariyama, Roaring Moon, Hatterene and others. Fairy is a good defensive typing (psychic just drags it down and prevents it from being clefable) and Scream Tail has a ton of natural bulk, allowing it to use Unaware to major success, fitting on Balance teams to Bulky Offense very well. Scream Tail also has access to a 16 PP Wish, giving it decently reliable recovery, as well as having the utility of passing its High HP wishes on to other teammates to allow them to get back in the game. Scream Tail uses Calm Mind + Dazzling Gleam as a way to force progress on Bulky Offense, and can use Thunder Wave over Calm Mind on more defensive teams. Protect is the final move, allowing Scream Tail to receive its own Wishes safely as well as maximise its Leftovers' passive healing and scouting the opponent's move on a Choice-Locked Pokemon, such as Meowscarada.

On the topic of Choice-Locked Pokemon, Scream Tail has a much more dangerous set, The Clicker. Why is it named The Clicker? Simple. Choice Specs Pixilate Boomburst. Capable of OHKOing many neutral targets such as Hisuian Zoroark and 2HKOing fragile resists like Gengar, (are my examples gonna be relevant in a week or two's time?) having a wide variety of coverage such as Flamethrower, Blizzard (i forgot does it get beam), Thunder(bolt), Psyshock and most annoyingly, Trick to shut down Blissey, Corviknight, opposing Scream Tail and many more, The Clicker is a very dangerous set to face when unprepared for it.

Why make a post on Balloon? It's quite simple. Zoroark seems to be getting from the majority of the suspect test votes, while Gengar has a less controversial story as of now. Regardless, they are the main drawback to Unaware Sets as they threaten an OHKO from Shadow Ball. Without one or even both of the Ghosts, Scream Tail will definitely rise in popularity. While I personally do not think it is overbearing to the point of needing a QB, I wouldn't mind more coverage on Scream Tail and would like to hear yalls thoughts.

Thank you Utility Talonflame for your efforts on the tier, sad to see you go but I'll always remember you as the AAA TL goat. you deserved the TL role dw
I don't think Scream Tail is a particularly problematic set in the current meta. It can certainly be annoying on its Unaware sets but isn't unkillable, even if it can feel like it sometimes. Physical wallbreakers like Adapt Kingambit, Choice Band Meowscarada, Barraskewda and mixed Lucario can break it and others like Slither Wing (which is probably the most popular and best physical wallbreaker in the tier) can easily pressure it with U-turn (or run Heavy Slam if it wants). While letting it gets Calm Minds up can be annoying, beforehand it struggles to handle many of the explosive special breakers in the tier, although it's not particularly meant to. It can become an potent wincon but Iron Moth is an extremely popular check to its sweep (which can be beaten in a PP war, but people need to just start running Sludge Wave on moth if they actually want it to check Fairies smh) while Corrosion users have become increasingly popular along with other outs like the many Trick/Switcheroo mons around in the tier, other Unaware mons and nukes such as Lucario/Magnezone/The Ghosts. Mainly, Scream Tail can be extremely passive and inviting something like Lucario to come in for nearly free is something very exploitable still. If you really want, you can also run Whirlwind to bully Scream Tail into getting no Wish recovery which is just something I found funny. You could maybe consider it oppressive but I find there are more than enough ways to pressure it and break through it.

Specs Scream Tail is an annoying set but really isn't that potent of a breaker and just has a good matchup into the meta as well having Trick which is always annoying. In comparison to something like Gholdengo, another defensive mon that could run offensive sets (although less of a wall that Scream Tail could be), Scream Tail is far less nuclear. Walls like Well-Baked Corviknight and Sand Stream Garganacl easily wall it with its pitiful 65 base SpA and while you can Trick them, ultimately fails to break through them and can be easily worn down now lacking recovery. CM Pixiburst can also be annoying but you run into the issue of lacking coverage for Iron Moth (unless you run Wish without Protect) as well as other mons like Unaware Scream Tail better checking it.
 
I feel like the broken spookies are making us ignore just how broken this monstrosity is

:sv/Hydreigon:
Hydreigon @ Choice Specs
Ability: Beads of Ruin
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Dark Pulse
- Flash Cannon
- Flamethrower

Name me the switch in (that isn’t incredibly super stupid niche), and I’ll give you 10 bucks.
“Wbb gambit” 252 SpA Choice Specs Beads of Ruin Hydreigon Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Kingambit: 165-195 (40.8 - 48.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery :trode:
“Blissey” 252 SpA Choice Specs Beads of Ruin Hydreigon Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 4+ SpD Blissey: 288-340 (40.3 - 47.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO :row:

And this isn’t even including it’s plot set;
+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Beads of Ruin Hydreigon Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 4+ SpD Blissey: 550-647 (77 - 90.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Hydreigon is broken and I won’t let anyone tell me otherwise, goodnight.

Edit: you can also just…run focus blast
+1 252 SpA Beads of Ruin Hydreigon Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 4+ SpD Blissey: 356-420 (49.8 - 58.8%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO

Closest we got is wbb or ee tink which is a 50/50 and even then focus blast still chunks
252 SpA Choice Specs Beads of Ruin Hydreigon Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tinkaton: 177-209 (47.3 - 55.8%) -- 22.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
 
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A Balanced AAA Offense Team
Slowth (Slowbro) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Triage
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Belly Drum
- Substitute
- Drain Punch
- Liquidation
One Punch Derp

Salty Caramel (Garganacl) @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 156 Def / 100 SpD
Impish Nature
- Curse
- Salt Cure
- Recover
- Body Press
Senator Armstong (If you know, you kknow

Shinobi (Greninja) (M) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Primordial Sea
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- U-turn
- Dark Pulse
Speedy Boi

Kelp Yourself (Dragalge) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def
Calm Nature
- Dragon Tail
- Chilling Water
- Sludge Bomb
- Draco Meteor
Defensive Monster

The Flash (Lucario) (M) @ Magnet
Ability: Galvanize
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Meteor Mash
2HKOs Fluffy Corv At +2 with non-STAB Electric Move

Hydra (Hydreigon) (M) @ Expert Belt
Ability: Rock Head
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Crunch
- Head Smash
- Earthquake
Recoilles Head Smash, Nuff Said
 
Hydra (Hydreigon) (M) @ Expert Belt
Ability: Rock Head
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Crunch
- Head Smash
- Earthquake
Recoilles Head Smash, Nuff Said
Magic Guard is better. You still get no recoil, but you're also protected from hazards, poison, etc.

Edit: Magic Guard also negates Life Orb recoil, so you can get a bigger damage boost than Expert Belt with no downside.
 
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cat

anemoia
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A Balanced AAA Offense Team
Slowth (Slowbro) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Triage
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Belly Drum
- Substitute
- Drain Punch
- Liquidation
One Punch Derp

Salty Caramel (Garganacl) @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 156 Def / 100 SpD
Impish Nature
- Curse
- Salt Cure
- Recover
- Body Press
Senator Armstong (If you know, you kknow

Shinobi (Greninja) (M) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Primordial Sea
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- U-turn
- Dark Pulse
Speedy Boi

Kelp Yourself (Dragalge) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def
Calm Nature
- Dragon Tail
- Chilling Water
- Sludge Bomb
- Draco Meteor
Defensive Monster

The Flash (Lucario) (M) @ Magnet
Ability: Galvanize
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Meteor Mash
2HKOs Fluffy Corv At +2 with non-STAB Electric Move

Hydra (Hydreigon) (M) @ Expert Belt
Ability: Rock Head
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Crunch
- Head Smash
- Earthquake
Recoilles Head Smash, Nuff Said
first things first: pokepaste exists, maybe next time send that instead cos it was hard to scroll thru everything back and forth to give feedback on ur team

The slowbro set is a complete downgrade of triage Hariyama, you should probably use that instead, Hariyama also just wins against this team and gets infinite healing from Garganacl. Dragalgae just seems to be a worse version of RegenVest Garchomp, Lucario's main niche is as a MGLO Steel Beam Nuke, if you really wanted to hit Corviknight you could use Sandy Shocks or WashTom instead, both come with the ability to use Hadron Engine well. Finally Hydreigon is just not worth using as a Head Smash spammer, if you really wanted to use it tho MGLO Drednaw has Shell Smash and also has STAB on Head Smash, making it superior to your Hydreigon set.

So here's the revised team: https://pokepast.es/eed149dda48515e2

Garchomp and Garg have went, replaced by Unaware Scream Tail to better check Hariyama and to have a Defensive-Offensive mon, and Moth to help deal with TSpikes and to deal with opposing Scream Tail, who may spiral out of control. Other Movesets have been improved such as coverting Lucario to MGLO. Hope this helps!
 
:sv/gengar:
Gengar @ Black Sludge
Ability: Corrosion
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hex
- Focus Blast
- Nasty Plot
- Toxic

Corrosion gengar is a set that can work against stall to break down opposing walls over time. Paired with hazards it can break down regenerator pokemon like garchomp and roaring moon. It can also lure bulletproof steel types that would otherwise wall it like iron treads and kingambit. This set requires a lot of patience to be effective due to it not having a boosting ability. It also struggles to hit the field due to how frail it is.
 

LordBox

you should love yourself... NOW!
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Team Dump! + Ramble
I haven't really done this in a while mainly since the money tournament, not being really happy with any of the teams I make and being somewhat busy. I'm still not really that happy with the teams I make, but I thought as might as well dump some here since they do at least work.

Hydreigon Balance/Offense...?

:hydreigon::slither-wing::garchomp::corviknight::volcarona::kilowattrel:
:quaquaval::iron-moth::roaring-moon::corviknight::slither-wing::hydreigon:

The structure for this one is fairly generic but works fairly well. Get your main breakers in (Slither Wing and Hydreigon) and do big damage. You don't have a switch-in for Hydreigon and Icy Wind Ghosts also suck so you could also potentially run speed invested Roaring Moon on the 1st team but does mean you get Volt Switched on which is really annoying so you could try relying on winning faster. For both teams, Meowscarada can also act as a possible replacement for Slither Wing as it doesn't rely on First Impression to beat stuff like Hydreigon and Ghosts but you lose a good way to make progress if they have a solid Hydreigon check. Slither Wing here carries Heavy Slam to potentially blow up Scream Tail on the switch which can be a nuisance for Hydreigon and the Volc here works as a Fairy check while also stopping it from getting 6-0'd by Belly Drum Hariyama. Whirlwind seems odd but I ran it here to stuff Wish recovery from the Unaware Fairies which is a funny interaction longhiep pointed out. Volt Absorb Moth stands out but I don't really need the Water Immunity with Fluffy Quaq and RMoon and Pawmot sucks so I take what get, can also stop Volt Switch chains although not consistently. MGLO Quaq could work but without the bulk of Fluffy and extra defense investment it's a super shaky defensive check to what you want. Hydreigon could be replaced by a different set or the likes of Specs Gardevoir which has the neat bonus of actually having an emergency Draco switch-in but Gardevoir generally feels less consistent in how it can make progress so shrug.

RegenVest Tinkaton Balance

:tinkaton::kingambit::quaquaval::corviknight::ceruledge::kilowattrel:
:quaquaval::corviknight::tinkaton:[:ceruledge:/:skeledirge:]:kingambit: + ?

Since it was actually a different defensive core than I usually use I ended up developing the core more but haven't tested this too much. Running Fluffy Quaq lets you play much better into things like Slither Wing and physical attackers in general. Since DesoLand Cinderace now sucks without Kilowattrel I run a fully defensive Ceruledge to cope, but Skeledirge also works more securely but loses the potential damage Ceruledge can do. You need a Desoland mon here as otherwise you get 6-0'd by the likes of Specs PrimSea Inteleon. I would love to replace Kingambit here for a blanket Fire check but I haven’t really found anything that counts. For the final mon I’m not too sure. The team wants more ways to force progress so I tried stuff like NP/Specs Hydreigon, MGLO/CB Slither Wing (MGLO frees up item slots on Quaq) and Specs Gardevoir. Main issue with this is that it can be really annoying to actually get those nukes on the field and the team feels very slow which is annoying even with Gambits Sucker Punch since the team doesn’t feel that defensively great either and not having not too much out when you inevitably run into a bad MU. A faster offensive mon could also work but you can end up just getting stuck in a loop of just doing nothing ever. I even tried Corrosion Breloom which wasn’t too bad although eh. Feel like it definitely could work or maybe I’m trying too hard to reach for perfection.

I wanted to try a new defensive structure (kind-of) and I ended up going with RegenVest Tinkaton and ultimately running this. Main issue of this team is that it can be really annoying to force progress against some solid defensive cores and you can just end up stuck and doing nothing. Ceruledge is fine with Wisp but still struggles to beat stuff like WBB Corviknight but has nice defensive utility in checking Slither Wing and Quaquaval (although Tinted FB still does a billion). You could potentially run a bulkier set or even a different ability (and lose out on checking Quaq) but eh. You could also potentially run Specs Kilo as Ceru/WBB Gambit can kinda check physical Fires as well (or if you're really confident just replace it). VA Corviknight is here to check Sandy Shocks and also just stop Volt Switch spam in general. I ran BB Quaq as an experiment but Spin/CC/U-turn can also work. Kingambit is here to check special Fire types and also Talonflame and can also do some damage.

Regenerator Dondozo Balance

:corviknight::garganacl::dondozo::slither wing::volcarona::meowscarada:

Tried building around Garganacl which comes with the upside of not using up your Regenerator slot so you can experiment with it more. This concept is from a while ago but I wanted to try using Sub Regenerator Dondozo which I found very annoying to face when I came up against Ivar57 using it. Magic Guard Slither Wing offers a switch-in to Garganacl as well as Corrosion spam and can also do big damage, synergising well with Meowscarada to keep offensive threats in check and really put pressure on physical walls (Corviknight). I originally ran Iron Moth but Volc helps let me not get 6-0'd by Hariyama as well as meaning I don't get sniped by random Ground type coverage. Choice Band Meowscarada can be annoying so Morning Sun on Slither Wing could help given it can kind of switch in and force it out with First Impression (and can also help for Gambit) but with no coverage it can be annoying to break. The Ghosts:tm: or other super nukes can be super annoying so you're sort of clinging on with Meowscarada at times (Scarf could possibly be run) so a bulkier style of the team could also possibly be run as it's hard to keep up the offensive pressure without that much pivot although I'd be careful about how to make progress if you opt to run it in that direction.

Generic Balance Teams

:slither-wing::zoroark-hisui::corviknight::garchomp::scream-tail::kilowattrel:
:inteleon::toxtricity::corviknight::scream-tail::kilowattrel::roaring-moon:

I've made god knows how many generic teams with around this structure but I'll put this one in here as I used it for my suspect run. Very generic again, get Toxtricity/Zoroark-H in to do big damage while Slither Wing/Inteleon mainly supports as a Meowscarada-light with its pressure against faster while doing a lot of damage itself damage. You can generally run well into Balance and Offense for both teams but verse Stall for the 1st team it can kinda suck since they usually pack Ghost counters so running MGLO Zoroark-Hisui/CB Slither Wing is also a cool idea. Really you can put just about any mix and match of offensive fast and slow breakers into the first two slots and you're probably fine. You have issues against the likes of Specs Gardevoir and Glaceon but at that point just win faster (and you're not checking every nuke in the tier without 5 mons at the minimum). Inteleon and Toxtricity are cool experiments, notably Toxtricity can pressure Roaring Moon and Inteleon can pressure specially defensive Iron Moth but use whatever if you wish.

Fat.

:toxapex::garganacl::roaring-moon::corviknight::zoroark-hisui::scream-tail:
:dondozo::corviknight::scream-tail::roaring-moon::iron-moth::breloom:

My attempt at fat. Tried to help out Zoro-H with Flame Body and Corrosion which was a cool idea, although Zoroark-Hisui could possibly be removed for another MGLO mon or to help with the fact you struggle against some physical breakers like MGLO Quaq unless you get lucky with Flame Body but shrug. It can do some cool stuff but MGLO Zoro-H probably fits more on balance ultimately, since it's still annoying to get onto field otherwise. The second team is similar, EE Moth is because I don't need the water immunity and helps versus Glaceon and Lucario. Corrosion Breloom is another fun experiment although the team can end up doing nothing without it at times (but if you really want to strengthen the defensive structure, remove it).

Also while I'm here, dumping some of my thoughts on some of the meta's mons that I've gained by testing around with them.
GOATed mon. It's like Heracross from Gen 8 but pumped up to 11. U-turn, First Impression, 10 more attack and other coverage like Flare Blitz/Will-O-Wisp/Heavy Slam + Morning Sun recovery that allows it run defensive sets or even on offensive sets. It can reliably break all Corviknight sets, even with Tinted Lens and MGLO packs some more utility with MGuard and yet still can break most Corviknights and pressure it with ease if it runs Flare Blitz. You can snipe checks like Scream Tail and Non-Earth Eater Skeledirge with coverage (Heavy Slam/EQ) or just simply spam U-turn on it to another breaker or annoying mon. It can serve as not only a nuclear offensive threat on its own but help support other threats on its team by checking annoying offensive threats with First Impression and pivoting into other threats to get them into prime position.

The current metagame has really made me appreciate Roaring Moon even more, and at this point even prefer it over Garchomp on a somewhat regular basis. With the introduction of Choice Specs PrimSea Inteleon which 2HKO's it neutrally or can even snipe it with Ice Beam (or a common partner Iron Moth with Mud Shot) and also the popularization of Icy Wind Ghosts, more and more I've been using Roaring Moon who can actually afford to switch in to Inteleon (and Greninja) given its resistance and only regular Ice weakness as well as checking the Ghosts more reliably, the speed and attack ultimately allowing me to cope against a lot of other threats like Hydreigon, Glaceon and Lucario in a pinch. The Rocks neutrality and getting Volturned means Garchomp always is a viable alternative along with its ability to setup hazards (or even sweep) but shrug, doesn't fit on my teams currently since I want to squeeze all the defensive utility out of my Regen mon as I can.

Wasn't there someone raving about banning Ceruledge a while ago? Well anyway ever since I tried it out in my Tinkaton balance I started to play around a bit more with it. It's a cool mon, don't know what they were going on about banning it though. Desoland has cool defensive utility and can do some breaking given a good position. Mold Breaker is mainly just super annoying since it spreads Wisp a ton but stuff like Kilowattrel can easily stuff it and you can easily overwhelm it with offense. Still cool though, mainly with its defensive utility (Desoland checks rouge Palafin and Quaq as well as being a cope into Slither Wing and other Fires) and Wisp.

A lot of people diss the bird, calling it a ZU threat and such but it's a cool mon! Specs sets are eh imo but HDB manages to find a good defensive niche while packing some offensive capability that can let it clean and spam U-turn (I used to use WBB Slither Wing almost like this but losing to the Smogonbirb does suck). The propensity of Corviknight on ALL of my teams as my blanket physical check means I commonly need to go find a physical Fire check and Kilowattrel happens to fill that role while not being too passive either which is cool until Zapdos comes back in home anyway.

Cool mon :) While near unseen, it has a variety of tools that can make it a fairly good progress maker imo. Refridgerate Boomburst hits gives it a good matchup into the common specially defensive Dragons, Toxic nails neutral walls that can stop it like Garganacl and Blissey, Thunder Wave is annoying and lets Toxtricity more reliably beat non specially defensive Iron Moth and also fast Roaring Moon on the switch with Thunderbolt and Boomburst respectively. I probably shouldn't be showing off another slow progress maker.... god knows we have enough as is, but oh well, have fun!

Yet another slow underrated devilish breaker, like we need anymore to account for. Fragile, slow and prone to getting chipped and out offensed, it does have the niche of being Walking Wake but worse BUT also having Nasty Plot, but we do remember how devliish Walking Wake was and with Nasty Plot it can be nuclear outside of like specially defensive VoR Florges and Blissey.

Brought from the depths of not existing, Inteleon is basically Specs Greninja but like kind of better (it was good before you just weren't real smh). It's not unwallable or uncounterable by any stretch of the imagination but anything that takes its Hydro Pumps neutrally is most likely dying and is pretty fast with U-turn so pretty cool. I mentioned this before but the increasing popularity of Inteleon is more of a detriment to the popularity of Chomp so should be fun.

Toying around with, it's a very cool mon for its defensive capability and also offensive capability. While not the most explosive wallbreaker, MGLO Quaq is still rather dangerous with powerful LO boosted Wave Crashes able to break through Corv with good play. More importantly, it packs nice utility, MGLO the purest Garganacl answer in the tier and absorbing annoying Corrosion Toxic spam as well U-turn and Rapid Spin. Its defensive typing is unique and definitely exploitable, allowing it to check Chien Pao almost naturally which can otherwise be very dangerous. Particularly, I've found more appreciation for defensive Fluffy Quaquaval which isn't the best pure well but works well with Corv and can even setup with the extra bulk although generally I prefer abusing its utility.

Iron Moth continues to stay winning with its defensive utility (I've even begun running random immunities) and offensive presence however I don't understand how people found this thing to be banworthy. Its more utility focused sets obviously aren't much of an issue so people are mostly talking about all-out offensive sets as an issue which I'm not very convinced. With not only LO recoil, it's also weak to SR and potentially running Morning Sun isn't great when you really want to making the turns you do get plus want all 4 of your moves. It's not hard stopped by Garganacl or even Assault Vest Chomper but they're certainly really annoying and you need plays and/or prediction to win against them which is not fun given the timer you can set on. The Ghosts can be stopped by dedicated walls sure but they aren't on as much of a timer, can blast through Garg with ease (and even Chomper potentially) and can be more versatile offensively even with MGLO, Choice Trick sets or Normalize trapping sets and other random coverage.

Another cool wallbreaker but on the physical side and packing a bit more utility. I didn't want to insert another team with the same defensive core all over again but it works well. Mach Punch is an underrated move on the few Pawmot I do see for what it hits (Meowscarada, Chien Pao, Roaring Moon, Greninja) but it has the variety of moves to abuse like Volt Switch/Nuzzle and the Electric/Fighting (+ Ice Punch if you can fit it) coverage is enough to hit most physical walls in the tier neutrally or SE.
 
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Not very pleased with how money tour finals went but things can't always go your way and Ivar is a deserving winner. Anyway here are some teams and thoughts.

Some Teams

:ceruledge: :corviknight: :kingambit: :talonflame: :ting-lu: :tinkaton:
I made this in like 15 minutes before playing Ivar but it feels quite coherent somehow. It's built around Adapt Kingambit + Talonflame which is a strong core for many reasons but I ended up with a Regen Ting-Lu and a team that had trouble punishing Defog, so I made it Defiant. Ceruledge and not Iron Moth cause you want to spinblock Quaquaval here.

:ceruledge: :cinderace: :garchomp: :iron jugulis: :quaquaval: :spidops:
Webs + 4 SD users. It's strong, just don't face WBB Corv (you can't prevent it from defoging), especially in grand finals of a tournament.

:corviknight: :decidueye: :garchomp: :garganacl: :goodra: :scream tail:
An attempt by yours truly at making a good stall team featuring a very evil Decidueye set. I think it's fine, even if the lack of knock absorber can hurt a bit. Just don't face MGLO Slither Wing + U-Turn Iron Moth, especially in finals of a tournament. (T-Spikes too, don't face T-Spikes lol)

:chien-pao: :cinderace: :corviknight: :iron moth: :kilowattrel: :ting-lu:
Pretty classic volt turn team in the style of LordBox. Cinderace is supposed to Will-o Dondozo, helping Chien-Pao Crunch through, but this set is also really threatening on its own. A case could be made for Thunder over Roost on Kilowattrel.

:corviknight: :garchomp: :gardevoir: :iron moth: :kingambit: :slither wing:
Dull team made around modest Gardevoir. Use against QT stall spammers like Greybaum.

:corviknight: :garchomp: :hatterene: :iron moth: :kingambit: :roaring moon:
Another Corv Chomp Moth Kingambit team. Strong Jaw Roaring Moon is particularly good and underused. Sub on Hatt means Garganacl can't come in, and it's fine against Corv. Generally you don't mind not having Mystical Fire.

:corviknight: :drednaw: :gyarados: :iron moth: :iron thorns: :roaring moon:
Super cheap double rock screens HO. Try it on ladder at your own risk. Very suspicious team.

:corviknight: :gengar: :iron treads: :rotom-wash: :slither wing: :tinkaton: (Outdated)
The 2 best volt turners in the business with double removal, topped with the quite broken Specs Gengar. Reliable team, has outs in most scenarios. You can probably replace Gengar with something.


And Thoughts

:corviknight: :garchomp: :iron moth:
The meta is very clearly heading towards a dominance of this core. I wasn't able to punish Ivar from bringing this every single game, showing that either it's too reliable, or I'm a complete clown. Imo the best Corviknight set by far is Intimidate. Most teams can't afford to have WBB or whatever without losing to Chien-Pao and/or Kingambit and/or Slither Wing. There are many ways to exploit Corviknight but none make using it not worth it. It's also pretty much forced into most teams by Meowscarada (I can only think of 2 other options : Regen bulky Tinkaton and defensive Slither Wing). Regen Chomp doesn't really care about Corviknight, it just gets up hazards and starts SDing. A lot of teams just lose because they can't punish that. There's no widely accepted spread or moveset to my knowledge, both physically and specially defensive exist (AV or lefties), as well as offensive. Desoland Moth rounds out the core well by adding some firepower on the special side, some t-spikes absorbing, some special bulk, and a much needed Water immunity. I think these days they're mostly modest with enough speed for Lucario and some mix of hp and spa (max speed Timid is also good). Fiery Dance Discharge Morning sun are basically always there, with last being U-Turn, Dazzling Gleam or Sludge Wave depending.

:quaquaval: :scream tail: :kingambit: :tinkaton: :iron treads:
Corv Chomp Moth, some combination of the above pokémon and a wallbreaker : congratulations ! you are now Ivar57 and ready to win AAA tournaments ! These are the reliable glue mons.
:quaquaval: Quaquaval is just really hard to switch into no matter what. Due to Magic Guard, it can come in on anything that's not a strong attacking move and start making progress. People, following cumps (I think), have started running Brave Bird over Close Combat, which I think is correct. In more offensive teams you can also use SD over Roost, making it all the more threatening and preventing spinblock attempts.
:scream tail: Ridiculous, broken, evil pokémon. Unaware Scream tail is similar to gen8 Toxapex : having it suddenly makes your team 10 times safer. If your opponent releases the pressure just a little bit, you get to pass wishes. Its ability to 1v1 strong breakers is out of this world. It fucking beats Kingambit. Yes it does, think about that. The best way for offense to beat it is just having mons that do 35% or more and try to ppstall Wish.
:kingambit: This guy is closer than it looks to being completely broken. It's held back by Corv basically always having Body Press and Quaquaval, but still, it's always good to have : very bulky, strong priority, good typing, unpredictable. Earth Eater is the most reliable one it feels, but WBB and Adaptability (Tinted Lens maybe too) are also good. Imo it's hard to justify running anything other than Kowtow IHead Sucker SD but it has options like T-Wave, Rocks, Zen Headbutt and Low Kick.
:tinkaton: This one's a bit of a newcomer to the big league, it seems Fairy + Steel is just too good of a typing. WBB and Regen are both annoying to deal with, getting up rocks, Knocking, paralyzing stuff all over the place. Gigaton Hammer + Knock Off + T-Wave make it less passive than you would expect.
:iron treads: Maybe the most versatile mon here. Ask it whatever you want, it can probably do it well. EQ + Knock is really good alongside Volt Switch, which punished Corviknight very hard ; and one of Rapid Spin and Stealth Rock. It can also run Ice Spinner to force out Garchomp. It can be surprisingly hard to switch into. For that reason I think the best spread is just max speed max atk, but bulkier spreads are also good.





:ting-lu: Regen Ting-Lu is a strong alternative to Garchomp and can lead to solid structures too. It sounds stupid but Stealth Rock + Spikes feels like the best one in practice.

:slither wing: I won't talk about all the breakers available but Slither Wing deserves a special mention. If at any point you win the hazards war (rocks are on your opponent's side and not yours) and have a Slither Wing, then probably you win the game. It's that simple. Tinted is the best one in general but Swords of Ruin (or Adapt) and MGLO can be used as well. Not to mention the really good bulkier sets like Scarf Regen or Boots Regen.


I'll stop here, don't want the post to look like a Siamato essay. See you in OMPL.
 
:sv/lycanroc-dusk:
Lycanroc-Dusk @ Life Orb
Ability: Rocky Payload
Tera Type: Rock
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stone Edge
- Accelerock
- Close Combat
- Swords Dance

Lycanroc is a wallbreaker that can break open walls like corviknight, dondozo, and garchomp. With swords dance it can boost its stone edges to extreme levels and make its accelerock devastating for frail foes like meowscarada and roaring moon. It enjoys teammates like talonflame that can clean up after lycanroc weakens opposing walls. For flaws, lycanroc doesn't like to take hits due to how frail it is. Without a swords dance boost it has issues breaking some walls and you also need to find an opportunity to setup swords dance which is easier said than done.

+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Rocky Payload Lycanroc-Dusk Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 339-399 (84.7 - 99.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Simulates intimidate)

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Lycanroc-Dusk Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 361-426 (85.9 - 101.4%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Rocky Payload Lycanroc-Dusk Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dondozo: 425-500 (84.3 - 99.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Life Orb Rocky Payload Lycanroc-Dusk Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Scream Tail: 235-278 (54.1 - 64%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
 

LatiasDigs

formerly digitalson
like to shout out a set ive been using lately

Barraskewda @ Choice Band
Ability: Protean
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Poison Jab
- Pick 2: Crunch/Psyfang/Drill run/Liqui/maybe ice fang

This essentially acts as a Band cleaner (Rip flip turn) and revenge killer, being the absolute fastest threat in the tier (bundle and pult got axed, regieleki isn't released yet, electrode isn't real) being able to move fist against anything without scarf or priority, forcing things out and being able to do massive damage to what comes in if you predict right, and now with the 2 ghosts gone fighting is an even better offensive type than it already was.

as for why protean over primsea:
1: it only has slightly less neutral damage on the main attack, still being able to 2hko immunity corv, in exchange for a significant damage increase to coverage, ie. being now able to 2hko scream tail with pjab and even take half damage from incoming fairy moves due to the type change and being able to ohko the fighting resisting kilowattrel with basically every coverage option besides drill run
2: the benefit of freeing up primsea for use on a different mon is undeniable, allowing you to use barraskewda alongside the likes of inteleon or greninja which are very effective at dealing with the things skewda struggles against (primsea specs sets being able to ohko corv)

All in all, protean benefits barraskewda greatly with little downside over primsea
 

LordBox

you should love yourself... NOW!
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1683992644501.png

This mon is dumb. Actually Belly Drum (and Triage kinda) is dumb but unfortunately I can't convince the council that Belly Drum Azurill is broken so this is the best I can do. This mon is just so fucking dumb to build for, I tried to build offense and every single time I come to the same conclusion; WOW, I get 6-0'd by Hariyama. Even for balance teams you're restricted to like Unaware/Ceruledge/Bulkarona (with Wisp and land it). These aren't bad or rare mons by any means, but I find it really stupid that you're almost forced onto these options for this fatass mon. It's a matchup fish like the other HO staple Polteageist but Polt is not nearly as bad with far more checks in most of the blanket special walls, Unaware mons, Scarf Meowscarada and just Dark types in general (or making sure it doesn't setup which can be a lot easier compared given it's a lot more fragile than Hariyama). Even stuff like random Dazzling and Hatterene aren't reliable options because Hariyama has bulk and is always paired behind screens so it can easily afford to live and setup/kill after it lives one or two hits. Particularly, fitting those options are super annoying on more offensive teams (outside of maybe Ceruledge and the bad Armarouge) which sucks, and you need to go to absurd lengths to make sure it doesn't end your entire team instantly as you can't outspeed it or even use other priority given it Triage gives +3 (wtf Gamefreak???) and you can't cope by not letting it setup because it WILL given screens. Should we ban it? Idk maybe I'm bad but I just really hate this mon and I wanted to vent it somewhere because it makes half my teams sad when I realise I have a kinda cool team and WOW I'm 6-0'd by this thing thanks very cool. (Ban Belly Drum plz slowbro is broken with it i swear)

Edit: I just realised Chesnaught is a bulky Fighting type that gets Belly Drum and Drain Punch NOOOOOOOOOO
 
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This mon is dumb. Actually Belly Drum (and Triage kinda) is dumb but unfortunately I can't convince the council that Belly Drum Azurill is broken so this is the best I can do. This mon is just so fucking dumb to build for, I tried to build offense and every single time I come to the same conclusion; WOW, I get 6-0'd by Hariyama. Even for balance teams you're restricted to like Unaware/Ceruledge/Bulkarona (with Wisp and land it). These aren't bad or rare mons by any means, but I find it really stupid that you're almost forced onto these options for this fatass mon. It's a matchup fish like the other HO staple Polteageist but Polt is not nearly as bad with far more checks in most of the blanket special walls, Unaware mons, Scarf Meowscarada and just Dark types in general (or making sure it doesn't setup which can be a lot easier compared given it's a lot more fragile than Hariyama). Even stuff like random Dazzling and Hatterene aren't reliable options because Hariyama has bulk and is always paired behind screens so it can easily afford to live and setup/kill after it lives one or two hits. Particularly, fitting those options are super annoying on more offensive teams (outside of maybe Ceruledge and the bad Armarouge) which sucks, and you need to go to absurd lengths to make sure it doesn't end your entire team instantly as you can't outspeed it or even use other priority given it Triage gives +3 (wtf Gamefreak???) and you can't cope by not letting it setup because it WILL given screens. Should we ban it? Idk maybe I'm bad but I just really hate this mon and I wanted to vent it somewhere because it makes half my teams sad when I realise I have a kinda cool team and WOW I'm 6-0'd by this thing thanks very cool. (Ban Belly Drum plz slowbro is broken with it i swear)

Edit: I just realised Chesnaught is a bulky Fighting type that gets Belly Drum and Drain Punch NOOOOOOOOOO
Ah yes. With Iron Hands gone, we resort to the standard, lesser version of it.
 

LordBox

you should love yourself... NOW!
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imo unaware isn't hard to fit on a team and easily counters bd triage, for more offensive teams you can go queenly majesty to stop prio
Like I said earlier, yes Unaware is a complete stop but the pressure it exerts to put it or the few other reliable answers on a team is stupid (I would like to stop building the same 3 balance teams). Queenly Majesty isn't even that good of an answer given Hariyama is behind screens and can tank 1-2 hits without that much trouble (unless you run REALLY stupid mons) and also obvious on things like Meowscarada where you're switching a Fighting weak into it and also aren't running an ability that is run 99% of the time. It's not amazingly hard to get Hariyama onto the field and get a Drum for relatively free given the HO teams it's always run on feature extremely disposable teammates that can get sacrificed for free entry on something like a Slither Wing forced to First Impression another dangerous wallbreaker/sweeper.
 

Grim_Blazer

Banned deucer.
Ok so I know that UT and Isaiah keep saying that it's against the tiering policy to ban drum and i dont wanna sound like a broken record so I'll keep this brief but I really think we should either change the policy or at least ignore it for this case since it's been shown again and again that drum is the problem, not the abilities that are used in conjunction with it, it's gotten to the point where people are recommending that triage gets banned for this even though it's not anywhere near broken on anything other than drum mons, are we really gonna sacrifice 2 abilities so that the obviously broken belly drum can stay in the tier? I thought that since it's almost any ability we should only ban abilities if they're obviously what makes a strategy broken, we didnt ban sheer force when the ghosts were going crazy, we didnt ban aerilate when noivern and dnite were at large, why did unburden get the boot when drum was the problem and why is there a group of people now trying to ban triage too when we can just ban the move? We also have the option to just ban hariyama but then chesnaught and ursaluna (post-home) would most likely take its place, are we just gonna ban those mons too? So we have to sacrifice unburden and triage in order to make it balanced, or maybe we keep triage and also ban hariyama, chesnaught, and ursaluna? I don't know all the reasons for the policy, I'm sure that there is plenty of good reasons but I feel like it's worth it to at least think about ignoring it in the case of belly drum.
 

Osake

Hasta Siempre
is a Top Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Social Media Contributor Alumnus
Totally support what was said above, it was well explained, it’s restricting and a stupid fish that requires 0 skill and it has been shown in 8G and in 9G that the only problem was on Belly Drum, Unburden and Triage are nowhere near broken. I would also add regarding the policy that I know it isn’t as easy to say « just ignore it » but it has been done in the past with Camomons (although it was a different case, less inherently stupid move but much more distributed) (Siamato threatened me to not use that example because it's different, well if you want, I can just talk of the Electrify ban in 8G which works completely similarly : something that isn't broken in regular tiers but is bc of Lightning Rod + Electrify, it's literally the same than BD + Unburden or Triage making bad mons a pain so if that isn't the best example idk what it is) + policies were made for regular tiers, when you change such important things as abilities obviously some mechanics become broken when they aren’t in regular tiers, so I don’t see an issue in not following those policies not made for OMs, instead of sacrificing many mons and abilities when the problem is clearly identified
 
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it has been done in the past with Camomons (although it was a different case, less inherently stupid move but much more distributed) (Siamato threatened me to not use that example because it's different...
Always easy to threaten smaller than yourself hehe :totodiLUL:

Since you have chosen to tread this slippery slope by using this comparison, I must clarify a few points that are important to take into account before possibly coming to the nuclear (given the current policy) conclusion that a move should be banned.

Distribution

From a tiering policy point of view, a move can be seen as the issue from the time too many mons end up being banned due to this move. By this I mean the move is a common factor mostly inseparable from the broken character of these mons: it's one of the reason if not the reason making these mons broken.
The threshold at which we consider the move to be the issue is often not something fixed and depends on some other parameters (2 being the minimum).

Calm Mind, in SS Camomons's case, was a move with a wide distribution. It was not hard to find about 10 users entering the unhealthy/broken territory due or partially due to Calm Mind (now imagine if, in addition, those 10 users have several viable typings...).


On the other hand, Belly Drum in SV AAA is a move that is currently abused by 2 mons: Hariyama and Chesnaught (although this last is more hypothetical at this time). I'm not considering Belly Drum as a critical point in Iron Hands's ban (Sword Dance is more than enough to make it still broken in the current metagame to me).

Impact on the metagame

Any tiering action should always look at the state of the current metagame. It's a way to decide what's a "confort ban" or a "necessary ban" for instance. Confort bans often get rid of something fishy and uncompetitive but whose impact on the metagame is somehow small due to this element not really wrapping the metagame around it. Necessary ban, on the contrary, get rid of an element centralizing and really impactful on the metagame.

Calm Mind users completely wrapped the old SS Camomons metagame around them. It was about how to counter opposing Calm Mind users and abuse yours well. Calm Mind users were a strong limitation to diversity due to their centralizing aspect. Moreover, having followed the way of banning mons didn't really solve the issue and even created other ones. If I will not come back on the matter here, the ban of CM in SS Camomons falls in the "necessary ban" category.


In SV AAA, Belly Drum is used mostly by 1-2 mons that are overall quite mid due to their inconsistency. They don't wrap the metagame around themselves but constitute an unhealthy presence due to their ability to somehow autowin if you didn't take them into account in the builder; something that is restrictive considering they are mid. Getting rid of either Belly Drum or those 2 is then mostly a "confort ban". It will not drastically affect the state of the metagame but will be still an improvement by removing a MU fish and uncompetitive element. Ban Electrify last generation was a confort ban too for instance.

Collateral damages, win/lose ratio

Let's say the point from which the discussion between continuing banning mons and banning the move has been reached. How do we choose what's the best option? It's about collateral damages and win/lose ratio.

If you banned some mons that didn't have a huge impact on the metagame and still have to ban some of the same ilk, probably you have to continue banning mons. That's especially the case if banning the move creates collateral damages by affecting the movepool of some other mons.
Now if you had to ban some really impacful mon and still have to ban one, maybe you better look at the move. Simply because the value of the move for the metagame could be lower than the value of these mons, even without the move.

Latias, Latios, Reuniclus and Slowking-Galar were all important mons in SS Camomons due to their positive aspects as defensive or utility options. It was also the case of Necrozma and Clefable ending up to be on the radar as well due to Calm Mind sets being dumb. Chosing to ban Calm Mind allowed to keep those great mons in SS Camomons and it was for the best (even though collateral damages were also quite large).


About SV AAA now, banning Hariyama and even Chesnaught will not be really impacful for the metagame considering those mons don't have any healthy aspect (especially Hariyama). The same applies to Belly Drum however. Other Belly Drum users are almost completely unviable and then losing the move will not change their viability. Nevertheless, banning Belly Drum could open the way to a return of Unburden that can be seen as positive for the diversity.


I'm not giving a conclusion if either Belly Drum should or shoudn't be banned from SV AAA. The purpose of this post was just to give the important points to take into account when it comes from opening the Pandora box and talking about banning a move. If banning a move shouldn't be forbidden from a tiering policy point of view (and is not in fact), it's essential to understand why we try to avoid them and that a solid justification must be brought to make it.
I certainly don't want people to make the shortcut of "Camomons banned a move last gen so why couldn't we do the same here?" without understanding how different these 2 situations are. The comparison with Electrify last gen is probably the best one if any.

I didn't mention Triage but it's also impossible to decorrelate it from those Belly Drum mons being unhealthy. The tiering policy in AAA allowing to ban abilities by concept, I think that's also on the table. However banning Triage will probably create more collateral damages than another option and why it should be avoided to me.


Thanks for reading as always (even though most of you didn't read ik)! :heart:
 
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Isaiah

Here today, gone tomorrow
is a Site Content Manageris an official Team Rateris a Battle Simulator Administratoris a Top Social Media Contributoris a Member of Senior Staffis a Community Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributor
UM/OM Leader
On Belly Drum
*The quotes here are going to be from the OM Tiering Guidelines and Smogon Tiering Policy Framework

1. Why follow the tiering policy?
The tl;dr on this is that sure, we could balance every tier however we want and just wing it as things come, but that makes for overall disastrous organization and creates a series of overlapping loopholes and potentially avoidable exceptions--i.e. convoluted banlists (complex bans suck). This has been stated and re-stated probably hundreds of times in any given tiering debate within a metagame, but that's for good reason. Exceptions are meant to be a last resort, since in reality very few things are actually banworthy when taken out of the context of their most noteworthy users (e.g. we don't ban Shadow Ball in AAA just because a lot of banned Ghost-types use[d] it as a primary attack).

2. So then, when do exceptions actually apply?
The easiest way to illustrate this is to just quote:
OM Tiering Guidelines said:
  • Ability-based formats such as Almost Any Ability (AAA) should look to ban specific users of abilities before banning the abilities themselves.
    • Noivern and Dragonite are both banned from AAA largely because of Aerilate, which remains legal as an option for other users, such as Landorus-Therian, that are not considered banworthy.
    • Wonder Guard is banned in Almost Any Ability because it warps the metagame to an extremely overcentralized extent, depriving teams of creativity and requiring overly demanding and specific countermeasures regardless of what the Wonder Guard Pokemon on an opposing team may be.
  • Move-based formats such as STABmons should look to ban or restrict specific users of moves before banning or restricting the moves themselves.
    • Tapu Bulu is banned from STABmons despite being arguably the only noteworthy non-native Grassy Glide user because the combination of Tapu Bulu + Grassy Glide is banworthy, not Grassy Glide on its own.
    • Shell Smash is restricted in STABmons because there are more Pokemon able to utilize it than would be feasible to ban, and in virtually every case Pokemon that gain access to Shell Smash through the STABmons concept become problematic enough to become banworthy in their own right.
  • Item-based formats such as Mix and Mega (MnM) should look to ban or restrict specific users of items before banning or restricting the items themselves.
    • Calyrex-Shadow is banned from MnM because even without a Mega Stone, its offensive presence is too overwhelming for the viable defensive options in the metagame.
    • Medichamite is banned from MnM because there are more Pokemon able to utilize it than would be feasible to ban, and in the vast majority of cases Pokemon that gain access to Medichamite through the Mix and Mega concept become problematic enough to become banworthy in their own right.
    • Xerneas is restricted in MnM because it is too powerful when enabled by a mega stone, but there exists enough offensive and defensive counterplay to account for it in its natural form.
As stated above, tiering action should generally be aimed at sticking to the constraints of a given metagame's concept: In AAA, banning moves out of native movepools is going to require significantly more justification than banning individual abusers of said moves, since AAA's concept does not directly modify any Pokemon's natural learnset.

Some concrete examples of exceptions made in other metagames are when Baton Pass got nuked in virtually every metagame or when OU banned Arena trap due to the fact that even the non-fully evolved forms of Gothitelle and Dugtrio were proven to be uncompetitive enough to get rid of the ability altogether. A more OM-specific example is Camomons in gen 8, where there was such an abundance of Calm Mind abusers that even after banning all of the most troublesome ones, would-be high-level games still devolved into CM vs CM matchups; thus, the Calm Mind ban became unavoidable.

3. Why is a Belly Drum ban in AAA not considered a valid exception?
For an ability-based metagame like AAA to even consider banning Belly Drum as a valid option, there would need to be substantial justification that simpler, tiering policy adherent methods do not and/or have not worked, or that an overwhelming amount of users are made broken by Belly Drum itself. For example, this would mean conceding that Pokemon like Cetitan, Slowking, Slowbro, etc. are broken with Belly Drum, too. As of right now, the only banned Belly Drum user is Iron Hands--a pokemon which could feasibly be deemed broken enough to ban even without Belly Drum (i.e. Swords Dance + Triage and other potential sets). The primary controversial user (Hariyama) and other theorymonned users (Chesnaught and Ursaluna) are 1) still legal in Hariyama and Chesnaught's cases or 2) have not proven themselves to be a problem with Belly Drum. Thus, there's no reason to jump the harshest solution of removing the move from every user's movepool. If the issues with Belly Drum setup can be resolved with some Pokemon bans (and/or an ability ban), then there isn't much reason other than arbitrary whim to make an exception.

Now, if the argument being made is that the problems with Belly Drum cannot be solved by banning the listed (and potentially unlisted) options as they become broken, then sure, after we've actually tried out our options, that discourse can happen. As of right now, the options are as follows:

> Ban Triage
> Ban Hariyama (and other individual users as necessary)
> Do nothing
> Other (you tell me; I'm just in the Pokemon Home waiting room at this point)


Banning Belly Drum "to unban Unburden" (as I've seen in some parts of the discussion) is not an option. Unburden was banned on the premise that Speed boosting abilities + setup are very difficult to handle due to how they can invalidate most traditional revenge killing methods. Some of examples of this are Terrain + Seed combos like Hadron Engine/Psychic Surge. If you want Unburden banned, you'll need to make a substantial argument disagreeing/disproving that isn't just "Well some of the good Unburden users had Belly Drum so let's just get rid of the latter because I want to use the former".

Hopefully this clears up why banning Belly Drum is not currently on the table and allows the discussion to shift to deciding which of the options that are actually available are best to choose.
 
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3 Announcements

1) :sv/hariyama:
Following a council vote, Hariyama has been quickbanned from Almost Any Ability. Having recently gained popularity on the ladder, Hariyama is a pokémon that can win many games without any effort. Belly Drum allows it to immediately maximize its attack stat, drastically limiting the number of pokémon that can survive a hit, and Triage allows it to outspeed just about everyone in the tier with Drain Punch. This deadly combination has only a few viable answers (most notably Unaware Scream Tail), some of which are contingent on Hariyama not having Screens support (Triage Hatterene, Desolate Land Ceruledge, Pixilate Scream Tail, for example), making it unreasonable to require every team to have one. Kris please implement.
AthaDFMIsaiahLordboxQTUT
BanBanDo Not BanBanDo Not BanAbstain

2) Jrdn is stepping down from the council, thank you for your valuable help.

3) Sample teams submissions are open ! Submit your best teams !
 

Hera

Make a move before they can make an act on you
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PUPL Champion
:sv/chesnaught:

Chesnaught @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Triage
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 156 HP / 252 Atk / 100 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Belly Drum
- Drain Punch
- Seed Bomb
- Earthquake

Since diet Iron Hands was banned, now we get to mess around with diet diet Iron Hands. This is clearly a downgrade considering the lower Atk + lack of a way to hit faster Ghosts + x4 Flying weakness letting BB Corvid almost always force it out, making it more reliant on Screens, but I guess having more speed is cool. Speed is for the 5 people still using Florges in this meta. I also tried messing around with a Bulldoze + Iron Head set to potentially hax your way past Scream Tail, but it's not even 4HKOed after Lefties and Tect, so this is unviable. Surely this won't get banned, right?
 

cat

anemoia
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Sample Submission:
:corviknight: :garchomp: :talonflame: :quaquaval: :scream tail: :rotom-wash: Fluffy Quaquaval Bulky Offense
i go in depth about this team here (albeit this team has one change, max speed stail to max defense), this team uses the CorvChomp core with Unaware Scream Tail to deal with setup and WishPass to teammates that may not have the oppoturnity to heal, and has Calm Mind to force progress instead of being too passive. Quaquaval and Talonflame are the wincons, if given the chance to use Bulk Up enough times they can win games very easily. They also appreciate the chip damage the defensive core can do as well as Rotom-Wś Volt Switches. Speaking about Rotom-Wash, it helps the team through its long-term annoyance with Will-O-Wisp, and has the ability to shut down an opposing Blissey by Tricking it a Scarf, and forming a potent VoltTurn combo with Corv.


if you know me, i was one of the chief abusers of hariyama, making a good HO team which spread on ladder like wildfire. higher-level players caught on and built their teams ensuring it wouldnt lose to yama, but building offense that wouldnt be 6-0ed by it was very difficult and had a chokehold on the meta. at first i didnt think it was that unhealthy but after a moment of thought (20 seconds) i realised that it wasnt fun to play against at all, was gonna write a post abt it soon but it got banned alr so oh wells
 
Sample Submission
Desoland Ceruledge Balance
:ting-lu: :quaquaval: :corviknight: :toxapex: :ceruledge: :meowscarada:

Some people are already familiar with this team since I posted it on suspect threads, but I thought I'd throw it in as a sample because I think it's pretty effective and not too hard to use. The general game plan is to try to spread poison (especially onto opposing corviknight), get up hazards with ting-lu, and break with quaquaval and ceruledge. Special attackers like kilowattrel and iron moth can give the team some trouble so I recommend trading damage on toxapex (spdef pex lives all hits) for a toxic on them when possible. Queenly majesty meowscarada helps against hatterene and other priority, although with hariyama gone there's definitely an argument for sword of ruin. Some notes on sets:

- 244 HP on ting-lu to maximize leftovers recovery
- Level 99 corviknight to underspeed other corviknight with u-turn
- HP and spdef on ceruledge to live unboosted fiery dance into +1 fiery dance from timid desoland iron moth, speed to outrun adamant slither wing and creep other mons trying to get past that benchmark (e.g. scream tail)
- Power gem on meowscarada to snipe talonflame (note that it does 90.2 - 106.3 so it needs to be slightly chipped to guarantee the OHKO)
 
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IMakeNoSense

hey it's that one guy who makes art
is a Pre-Contributor
I was surprised to see Hariyama be overpowered; I guess I just had a solid answer to hard wall Hariyama and didn't notice it's raw strength. Surprised a poke like Hariyama would be banned in the first place!

---

Anyway; I've recently tried my way through the ladder with a team I put together. I'm done playing with it, so here's what I put together (and the aforementioned counter to Hariyama) Nicknames courtesy of me and some genius who came up with the superior Iron Treads name.

https://pokepast.es/964673ce5771d69a
TinkatonChien-PaoSpiritomb | Pokédex
Tronphan (Iron Treads) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Well-Baked Body
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Body Press
- Rapid Spin
- Knock Off
- Stealth Rock


The perfect answer to Iron Moth IMO, to the point where it can switch in for free to eat some delicious Fire moves and either set or remove rocks for the rest of the team, or remove items that can be problematic in the future with Knock Off. Can also switch in to Cinderace and Ceruledge, though not as common, but they have other moves that can hit Tronphan for harder, some times even super effective.

McDonald (Garganacl) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sap Sipper / Storm Drain
Tera Type: Rock
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Salt Cure
- Recover
- Stealth Rock
- Protect


Shocker. Garganacl gets results. Salt Cure is absurd utility, and by normal standards this is, in fact, a normal Garganacl. However, I chose to run Sap Sipper instead of Storm Drain, Earth Eater, etc. Why? Meowscarada, mostly. It does not like its Flower Trick being negated by something it would usually be strong against. Other than that though, this was the weakest member in the team but I could not pass up using Salt Cure, because it also helped with other problematic Steel types; though in the long run I think I would've liked Storm Drain better and then just Salt Cure the millions of Water threats in the tier. Oh well.

Sasuke (Greninja) (M) @ Loaded Dice
Ability: Primordial Sea / Technician / Adaptability
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Water Shuriken
- Protect
- Ice Beam / Surf
- Dark Pulse


This one is a weird one, as I don't think there's a clear pick to running this Pokemon. I really liked the idea of using Water Shuriken despite all the Dazzling mons running rampant. With Loaded Dice, it becomes a priority multi-hit STAB move that can clean up a low-health mon or mons it's strong against. This poke was also one of the weaker in the team, but it started to get results when I ran Primordial Sea, as then it can switch in to Iron Moth if I needed it to, plus it boosts the power of Water Shuriken. I've tinkered with other abilities; like Technician and Adaptability (so that the base power is essentially 22.5 per hit) but I found that I get more usage for the same benefits by running Primordial Sea. Anyway; cool mon, but frail.

HAMMA! (Tinkaton) (F) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Steely Spirit
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Gigaton Hammer
- Fake Out
- Knock Off
- Protect


HAMMA!

Tinkaton can either start the game by being an issue or come in and be an issue later when Stealth Rock is gone. Fake Out breaks any other Focus Sashes, though risky as it can usually break Tink's. Then, once the stage has been set, say your prayers because a base 240 STAB Gigaton HAMMA is coming right towards your Pokemon's head; since Steely Spirit gives Tink that absurd boost in strength. Knock Off or Protect while HAMMA is on cooldown, and you have a mon that can chip at mostly anything... expect ironically Corviknight and other steel resists that are bulky enough to live or recieve a HAMMA to their plump face.

tl;dr, HAMMA!!!!!!


Sparkles (Chien-Pao) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Dazzling
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Icicle Crash
- Crunch
- Ice Shard


IIRC this guy is from a sample team. I won't share much abt them in terms of it's own strength, but it helps beautifully on the team. Can eat up Triage mons (minus Hatterene's Dazzling Gleam if it chooses to run that and DrainKiss) as well as block Slither's First Impression.

Juggler (Spiritomb) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Pain Split
- Hex
- Calm Mind


Finally, the MVP of eating Hariyama and other foolish setup sweepers; Unaware Spiritomb is SLEPT on. Everyone expects Prankster usually, until their Belly Drum Hariyama gets negated of its strength when it gets Will-o-Wisped and it's 4x attack is ignored completely. It can't use it's Fighting stab; since Spiritomb is a Ghost type. "But what if it switches?" Plan for it. Calm Mind. Hatterene is the only check to this mon as I've seen, as it's Fairy moves are a problem for the whole team, but even then, Spiritomb can STILL live a few hits after a good Calm Mind or two. (IF two, then it can even attempt to knock it out!) Of course, Hariyama isn't the only Pokemon it walls. It breaks through other would-be issues that think it can set up for free on it, and those that run Stored Power are reminded that they are a FOOL since Spiritomb is a Dark type, and thus is immune to it's gimmicky move.

It's biggest issue is healing, however. Leftovers and the unreliable Pain Split is and are it's only options to recover, and if you don't have a huge way of keeping longevity like Wishpassing or even Grassy Terrain, then chances are this Poke is going to die prematurely. Then again though, that's always been THE issue with Spiritomb, hasn't it? I do wonder if this Pokemon could get experimented more, as I legitimately think this mon is solid.

---

The biggest issues for the whole team is, but not limited to, Grass if Storm Drain Garg, Water if Sap Sipper Garg, Fairy, Hatterene (so try to keep Tinkaton alive until after Hatt gets knocked out), Dazzling (though it's not a huge issue), and Corviknight.


---

Anyway, that's all. Cya.

Oh! And feel free to use this for samples.
 
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