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This time, I wanted to try out actually making use of Booster Energy on HO now that FurScales and Dragonite are banned:
Another self-explanatory setup, but basic idea is lead Treads, then try and abuse the extra Speed to get a win in time. Works pretty well into most builds, but probably gonna struggle versus fat if you aren't able to get the key KOs with Tinted Lucario. The Iron Moth is Desolate Land instead of Beads of Ruin or Hadron Engine because on the ladder, weather teams are used a decent amount of the time and can be really annoying to play against (rain in particular). I'm not sure what the most optimized version of a team like this is, but figured posting it here could at least motivate people to improve on the idea :P
while we're on the topic of booster energy, OMcord was cooking some booster energy mons. heres what we created:
Hawlucha @ Booster Energy
Level: 100
Adamant Nature
Ability: Protosynthesis
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
- Close Combat
- Acrobatics
- Swords Dance
- Filler since you're clicking only sd, cc and acro anyway
You speed creep scarf garchomp (and unless ur +2 it doesn't kill: 252+ Atk Hawlucha Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 178-210 (49.8 - 58.8%) -- 72.7% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery)
there is also flamigo but there isn't much benefits of using it over lucha. nvm it gets chilling water!!!! if you do use flamigo it has liquidation and ig it can invest in bulk since it can't run 252 evs in atk for the speed increase. using them together in the right team might work well, i hope one of yall makes a team using one of both of these birds :D
I saw this mon back in the great tusk era as a spin blocker with stamina.
Alright in generation 9 it got quiver dance arguably one of the best boosting moves in the game.
With fluffy it can switch in on the common physical fightings on the tier like non flare blitz slither wing, bulky quaquaval, and hariyama. To help it set up to potentially sweep its a good idea to pair it with a knock off user that can lure in roaring moon and garchomp as well as something that can help burn physical attackers like flame body corviknight. It struggles with bulky darks, status, and anything that can tank a hit and threaten it out. Without team support it struggles to setup and sweep against the opposing team.
Chi-yu @ Life Orb
Ability: Tinted Lens
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Attack
- Overheat / Fire Blast
- Flamethrower / Fire Blast
- Dark Pulse
- Nasty Plot
This bad boi can kill virtually any tank after a single NPlot and a teensy bit of chip. I'm just gonna drop calcs here
+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Tinted Lens Chi-Yu Overheat vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Garchomp: 497-585 (118.3 - 139.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Tinted Lens Chi-Yu Overheat vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Garganacl: 481-567 (119 - 140.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Tinted Lens Chi-Yu Overheat vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Garganacl in Sand: 320-377 (79.2 - 93.3%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Chi-Yu Overheat vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Blissey: 481-567 (67.3 - 79.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Chi-Yu Overheat vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Blissey: 481-567 (67.3 - 79.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Tinted Lens Chi-Yu Overheat vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Roaring Moon: 296-351 (71.4 - 84.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Chi-Yu Overheat vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Scream Tail: 407-481 (93.7 - 110.8%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Chi-Yu Overheat vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Unaware Scream Tail: 277-328 (63.8 - 75.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Chi-Yu Overheat vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Unaware Scream Tail: 204-242 (47 - 55.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Tinted Lens Chi-Yu Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Kingambit: 439-517 (108.6 - 127.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Chi-Yu Overheat vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Kingambit: 665-788 (164.6 - 195%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Chi-Yu Dark Pulse vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Corviknight: 434-512 (108.7 - 128.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Tinted Lens Chi-Yu Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Iron Moth in Harsh Sunshine: 437-515 (120 - 141.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Tinted Lens Chi-Yu Overheat vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Unaware Dondozo: 439-517 (87.1 - 102.5%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Toxapex is at the core of the team. His primary job is to spread poison through Toxic and T-spikes with a secondary role as a physical wall. If you lose him before he manages to spread poison there's a good chance you'll lose so make sure to keep him alive.
Corviknight functions as a standard physical wall here, nothing particularly special. I run Drill Peck because I don't like the recoil of Brave Bird, but that works too.
Garchomp functions as the primary special wall. With Assault Vest and Max HP, he can tank a surprising amount of special attacks, even without any SpDef investment. The max speed is also important to make Garchomp a lot more threatening. Fire Blast is a really good for threatening Corviknight. Most Garchomp sets can't even touch Corviknight but Fire Blast changes that. You'd be surprised how much value I've gotten out of running it, it's unironically great.
Scream Tail is a good blanket check to any setup sweepers. In a lot of matchups she doesn't do much but in some she's integral to not getting completely swept. She also helps with Dragon and Dark special attacks, which this team can struggle with otherwise.
Gengar's job is to delete opposing pokemon and it does it REALLY well. You can swap him out with Hisuian Zoroark if you want but I find Venoshock to be of higher value.
Quaquaval is the primary physical wallbreaker of the team. He can sit on a lot of physical walls, especially Garganacl, while also threatening Corviknight trying to Defog off T-spikes.
If you have any suggestions on how I can improve the team, let me know.
Also, where are y'all getting those pokemon gifs for your posts?
The meta has once again calmed down in light of recent bans, so its once again time to gauge the feelings around the current meta from the People™
If you have anything that you wish to see action taken against, looked at more closely or want retested/unbanned this is the perfect time to have your voice heard! The survey will be open until next Sunday and if we get a large reaction for anything we'll go from there!
Dondozo @ Leftovers
Ability: Static
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Wave Crash
- Earthquake
- Curse
- Rest
Absolute funniest thing I found.
Static dondozo can make attackers like chien-pao and cinderace regret clicking a contact move as it will have a 30% chance to screw them over. You can pair this with powerful but slow attackers like lucario to great effect as it benefits from its faster checks being paralyzed. Now it does come with the risk of making corviknight have a slower u-turn than you but rocky helmet corviknight should help deter u-turn from it.
It can check dark types such as Paldean Megamence and ground types like Ground Magneton and Garchomp and even Gengar. It has enough speed to outspeed opposing scarf Armarouge, despite it living even a max attack jolly eq from full, but it was just one ev from the next speed tier, Barraskewda, which is evd to ohko with CC. The rest is dumpes on hp for longevity, as it tends to eat 50% from many things it wishes to switch into. The last move comes down to what your team can do for it. Without First Impression, its an awful Meowscarada check, as it eats like a bit under 50% from SoR banded Knock, like 70% from Flower trick, and it cant check jack without scarf, so youd need a different knock off switchin, on top of being useful if something boosts its speed like dragon dance Paldean Megamence. Will-O-Wisp is much more useful for balance-oriented teams, which can reap the benefits of burning things that Punching Volc can switch into but not threaten too significantly, such as regen chomp and Quav. It super wishes it learned a rock move to have the ability to threaten fast birds Talonflame and Kilowattel, and its a mid HiZo check due to not having a dark move and not having a way to ohko from full even with max attack
Now onto more pressing matters:
This dude is the fucking worst. Obsenely bulky, blazingly fast, has multiple support options to annoy people like trick and twave, and can even become a competent source of damage with sets like pixilate and calm mind. None of the things that can scare it away can switch into it and the things that can can eat a twave or become fodder for it to cm on. Even once you slow pivot something like deso ace, it might live to Twave it. The only one that can be none of those is Iron head future Donphan, and did you know it learns flame? We one day might see a pour soul get got by cm/wish/dazz/flame. Sadly the sets that are unkillable have 0 damage right off the bat and sets that can do some damage out of the gate sacrifice a lot of bulk to do it. But its the most annoying mon to ever exist either nuke it from orbit or bring ghold back, idc i cant press cc anymore, its not like fluffy lets me do it anyways
are we doing cooler niche sets on already good mons?
Quaquaval @ Leftovers
Level: 100
Jolly Nature
Ability: Fluffy
EVs: 252 HP / 80 Def / 176 Spe
- Aqua Step
- Close Combat
- Roost
- Bulk Up
fluffy Quaquaval is crazy. it sets up on non setup Corviknight, Talonflame, Roaring Moon, most Chien-Pao and others. 176+ speed speedcreeps every non scarfed pokemon in the tier as well as slower scarfers like armarouge after one aqua step, and outspeeds the whole tier after two. this mon mainly dislikes Unaware Pokémon and Garchomp only if it hasn't gotten enough bulk ups yet. Unaware Scream Tail is the main roadblock bcos at this point which setup sweeper isnt. These two mons have a harder time against Tinkaton, especially if Garchomp isnt max speed (which isnt very good rn). Max Hp Max Def Scream Tail has good chances of living Gigaton after rocks but wish cant outlast predicts.
tldr: try fluffy Quaquaval, pair it with hammerer for a potential excellent offensive core
252 Atk Life Orb Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 80 Def Fluffy Quaquaval: 203-239 (54.2 - 63.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Corviknight Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 80 Def Fluffy Quaquaval: 127-150 (33.9 - 40.1%) -- 37.3% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Sword of Ruin Chien-Pao Psychic Fangs vs. 252 HP / 80 Def Fluffy Quaquaval: 128-151 (34.2 - 40.3%) -- 42.5% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Sword of Ruin Chien-Pao Psychic Fangs vs. 252 HP / 80 Def Fluffy Quaquaval: 191-225 (51 - 60.1%) -- 89.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Sword of Ruin Roaring Moon Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 80 Def Quaquaval: 238-281 (63.6 - 75.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
i might also give tinkaton another spotlight after im done testing tinted hammer in my HO (s/o to Uninteleon for making tinted exist, things have been going well w it so far)
I’m seeing all these level 98 corvs on ladder and I can’t help but think to myself, “wow, you guys aren’t trying hard enough.” So, I concocted the perfect corv set that will go on to outclass all other corv sets in the meta:
Corviknight @ Leftovers
Ability: Stall
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- U-turn
- Defog
- Roost
- Brave Bird/Body Press
The Iron Moth
(I just wanted to talk about it) (This is just my thoughts opinions)
Desolate Land
Defensive Pivot (Iron Moth) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Desolate Land
EVs: 252 HP / 0-252 SpD / 0-252 Spe / Some physdef(?) / Some Spatk(?)
Timid / Calm Nature
- Fiery Dance
- Discharge / Solar Beam / Dazzling Gleam / Sludge Wave / Toxic Spikes
- U-turn / Solar Beam / Dazzling Gleam / Sludge Wave / Toxic Spikes
- Morning Sun
Iron Moth is the 2nd most used mon in the tier behind corviknight for a reason. Its most used and consistent set is the Desolate Pivot. The defensive especially, checks a lot of different mons in the tier and acts as key speed control. Desolate Land and Fiery Dance boosts gives it quite respectable power even without investment to threaten anything thats neutral to it. This along with the Sun boosted 75% Morning Sun allows it to invest in bulk and switch into attacks, force in responses, and U-turn / attack them. This makes it a strong part of teams adding defensive utility whilst generating momentum, and in a manner that isn't purely defensive.
Along with the expected water/primordial sea types
Iron Moth is the premier switch into Steel Beam and can be an emergency check or live a hit to many others (lol) <- These two it can atleast force the speedtie <- You dont win vs unaware Cm but at the same time you can attempt to pp stall them (especially scream tail), and pivot around them effectively. You can fish for para/poison as well. ~~ and more random stuff. Fire/poison oddly good
What makes this set so good is consistency in its speed + neutral power + bulk + 75% healing to give you a good to decent midground into a lot of mons. It can eventually force Para's on its checks and naturally bypasses Well-Baked-Body all the while gaining momentum with U-Turn as it forces in its checks/counters (nothing likes taking neutral fiery dances otherwise). 75% healing is especially great with the limited recovery PP this gen and allows Iron Moth to take 40-50-60% damage hits and still check mons, unlike other "walls" which would be ruined by that type of damage. Fits on pretty much all team styles, from Offense to Stall.
However, im not sure if this is the set people have in mind when talking about Iron Moth being hard to handle. Its for sure consistent and strong but not exactly unwallable. Those would be the:
Hadron Engine / Beads of Ruin / Sheer Force / Desolate Land (offensive)
Offensive (Iron Moth) @ Life Orb / Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Hadron Engine / Beads of Ruin / Sheer Force / Desolate Land
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Flamethrower / Fire Blast / Fiery Dance
- Discharge / Dazzling Gleam / Sludge Wave / Energy Ball / Solar Beam
- Discharge / Dazzling Gleam / Sludge Wave / Energy Ball / Solar Beam
- Discharge / Dazzling Gleam / Sludge Wave / Energy Ball / Solar Beam / Morning Sun
All of these sets are quite similar, especially the first 3. Offensive Desolate Land still attempts to keep the water immunity and utility in exchange for less non fire damage.
On paper this is a very strong mon, 140 special attack i mean cmon. These sets 2hko most of the meta. People point to this as a premier special threat and potentially problematic. However i dont personally think this set(s) are particularly problematic or even exceptionally effective really.
For one, most of the defensive utilities i listed above are not present with this set. Lacking the water immunity and weather control, and 75% healing and defense EV's. The mon is not that bulky all things considered and really needs those EV's. Also a slight 4msss thing with its coverage.
However the main thing that holds it back for me is the necessity of Life Orb on these sets.
With and stealth rocks in the equation forget almost any defensive utility. You become this all or nothing relatively fast breaker on a timer. The pivot set has the luxury of time and survivability and ignoring its checks with U-turn. These sets try to break through them, and can fall flat in attempting to do so. They must predict well to break through, as they do 2hko* "everything" but only with the correct move twice. All the while incurring life orb and other chip. This also shortens the length of time which you must check this pokemon, much easier to outspeed and force out low.
252 SpA Life Orb Iron Moth Dazzling Gleam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Garchomp: 192-229 (45.7 - 54.5%) -- 5.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery -
Sheer Force, while it comes with the incredible benefit of not taking damage, fails to 2hko chomp making it kinda worse than the others. 252 SpA Life Orb Beads of Ruin / Hadron Engine Iron Moth Dazzling Gleam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Garchomp: 257-304 (61.1 - 72.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery -
252 SpA Life Orb Beads of Ruin / Hadron Engine Iron Moth Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Garchomp: 108-127 (25.7 - 30.2%) -- 0.7% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery -
252 SpA Life Orb Beads of Ruin / Hadron Engine Iron Moth Dazzling Gleam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Garchomp: 172-203 (40.9 - 48.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
These sets while they do beat Garchomp, must hit it on the switch with a dazzling gleam, otherwise it tanks
fire/electric/poison/grass(kindaish) -> dazzling gleam and wins. is getting increasingly popular as well which you will never beat
the other dragon type 252 SpA Life Orb Beads of Ruin / Hadron Engine Iron Moth Dazzling Gleam vs. 252 HP / 72+ SpD Assault Vest Roaring Moon: 359-426 (86.7 - 102.8%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO -
Roaring moon similarly comes in on everything but Dazzling Gleam, but can also tank one most of the time and outspeed. Roaring moon in general is a big problem for Iron Moths being able to outspeed, regen, ohko, and take nothing from most hits.
252 SpA Life Orb Beads of Ruin Iron Moth Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Garganacl in Sand: 187-221 (46.2 - 54.7%) -- 8.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery - Yeah this mon is not dying without Desolate Land Solar Beam to negate the sand. Gets much nicer too if you can come in on a non grass move. SFLO energy ball is nicer for not incurring life orb damage and burning recovers, but with protect and sand it can help pivot around the Moth. It can also "sack" itself for eq/salt cure damage which usually puts Iron Moth too low to do much else with.
with spdef investment can kinda sorta pivot around you or force damage on. Its not the greatest but also an option. All you need to do is force some damage not necessarily win.
Now theres a whole line of random various WBB and immunity mons that also dont necessarily win but also dont necessarily lose and make life a lot harder
:Literally anything: its AAA
Honorable mention lol
Now the cplay to this is a little bit shaky and prediction reliant, but thats okay for this type of mon. On a timer, limited defensive utility, has to predict, wont accomplish too much vs offense. Its a short term nature mon compared to other more reliable special attackers.
I think you sacrifice a lot of what makes Iron Moth so good with this set. Still a threat though and can potentially still be problematic, i just dont see it as of now. Basically i think the first set is so much better but its also not the dangerous one.
tldr: i ramble about moth offensive sets suck moth is goated did i make any sense am i wrong earthquake stocks to the iron moon
The Iron Moth
(I just wanted to talk about it) (This is just my thoughts opinions)
Desolate Land
Defensive Pivot (Iron Moth) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Desolate Land
EVs: 252 HP / 0-252 SpD / 0-252 Spe / Some physdef(?) / Some Spatk(?)
Timid / Calm Nature
- Fiery Dance
- Discharge / Solar Beam / Dazzling Gleam / Sludge Wave / Toxic Spikes
- U-turn / Solar Beam / Dazzling Gleam / Sludge Wave / Toxic Spikes
- Morning Sun
Iron Moth is the 2nd most used mon in the tier behind corviknight for a reason. Its most used and consistent set is the Desolate Pivot. The defensive especially, checks a lot of different mons in the tier and acts as key speed control. Desolate Land and Fiery Dance boosts gives it quite respectable power even without investment to threaten anything thats neutral to it. This along with the Sun boosted 75% Morning Sun allows it to invest in bulk and switch into attacks, force in responses, and U-turn / attack them. This makes it a strong part of teams adding defensive utility whilst generating momentum, and in a manner that isn't purely defensive.
Along with the expected water/primordial sea types
Iron Moth is the premier switch into Steel Beam and can be an emergency check or live a hit to many others (lol) <- These two it can atleast force the speedtie <- You dont win vs unaware Cm but at the same time you can attempt to pp stall them (especially scream tail), and pivot around them effectively. You can fish for para/poison as well. ~~ and more random stuff. Fire/poison oddly good
What makes this set so good is consistency in its speed + neutral power + bulk + 75% healing to give you a good to decent midground into a lot of mons. It can eventually force Para's on its checks and naturally bypasses Well-Baked-Body all the while gaining momentum with U-Turn as it forces in its checks/counters (nothing likes taking neutral fiery dances otherwise). 75% healing is especially great with the limited recovery PP this gen and allows Iron Moth to take 40-50-60% damage hits and still check mons, unlike other "walls" which would be ruined by that type of damage. Fits on pretty much all team styles, from Offense to Stall.
However, im not sure if this is the set people have in mind when talking about Iron Moth being hard to handle. Its for sure consistent and strong but not exactly unwallable. Those would be the:
Hadron Engine / Beads of Ruin / Sheer Force / Desolate Land (offensive)
Offensive (Iron Moth) @ Life Orb / Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Hadron Engine / Beads of Ruin / Sheer Force / Desolate Land
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Flamethrower / Fire Blast / Fiery Dance
- Discharge / Dazzling Gleam / Sludge Wave / Energy Ball / Solar Beam
- Discharge / Dazzling Gleam / Sludge Wave / Energy Ball / Solar Beam
- Discharge / Dazzling Gleam / Sludge Wave / Energy Ball / Solar Beam / Morning Sun
All of these sets are quite similar, especially the first 3. Offensive Desolate Land still attempts to keep the water immunity and utility in exchange for less non fire damage.
On paper this is a very strong mon, 140 special attack i mean cmon. These sets 2hko most of the meta. People point to this as a premier special threat and potentially problematic. However i dont personally think this set(s) are particularly problematic or even exceptionally effective really.
For one, most of the defensive utilities i listed above are not present with this set. Lacking the water immunity and weather control, and 75% healing and defense EV's. The mon is not that bulky all things considered and really needs those EV's. Also a slight 4msss thing with its coverage.
However the main thing that holds it back for me is the necessity of Life Orb on these sets.
With and stealth rocks in the equation forget almost any defensive utility. You become this all or nothing relatively fast breaker on a timer. The pivot set has the luxury of time and survivability and ignoring its checks with U-turn. These sets try to break through them, and can fall flat in attempting to do so. They must predict well to break through, as they do 2hko* "everything" but only with the correct move twice. All the while incurring life orb and other chip. This also shortens the length of time which you must check this pokemon, much easier to outspeed and force out low.
252 SpA Life Orb Iron Moth Dazzling Gleam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Garchomp: 192-229 (45.7 - 54.5%) -- 5.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery -
Sheer Force, while it comes with the incredible benefit of not taking damage, fails to 2hko chomp making it kinda worse than the others. 252 SpA Life Orb Beads of Ruin / Hadron Engine Iron Moth Dazzling Gleam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Garchomp: 257-304 (61.1 - 72.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery -
252 SpA Life Orb Beads of Ruin / Hadron Engine Iron Moth Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Garchomp: 108-127 (25.7 - 30.2%) -- 0.7% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery -
252 SpA Life Orb Beads of Ruin / Hadron Engine Iron Moth Dazzling Gleam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Garchomp: 172-203 (40.9 - 48.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
These sets while they do beat Garchomp, must hit it on the switch with a dazzling gleam, otherwise it tanks
fire/electric/poison/grass(kindaish) -> dazzling gleam and wins. is getting increasingly popular as well which you will never beat
the other dragon type 252 SpA Life Orb Beads of Ruin / Hadron Engine Iron Moth Dazzling Gleam vs. 252 HP / 72+ SpD Assault Vest Roaring Moon: 359-426 (86.7 - 102.8%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO -
Roaring moon similarly comes in on everything but Dazzling Gleam, but can also tank one most of the time and outspeed. Roaring moon in general is a big problem for Iron Moths being able to outspeed, regen, ohko, and take nothing from most hits.
252 SpA Life Orb Beads of Ruin Iron Moth Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Garganacl in Sand: 187-221 (46.2 - 54.7%) -- 8.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery - Yeah this mon is not dying without Desolate Land Solar Beam to negate the sand. Gets much nicer too if you can come in on a non grass move. SFLO energy ball is nicer for not incurring life orb damage and burning recovers, but with protect and sand it can help pivot around the Moth. It can also "sack" itself for eq/salt cure damage which usually puts Iron Moth too low to do much else with.
with spdef investment can kinda sorta pivot around you or force damage on. Its not the greatest but also an option. All you need to do is force some damage not necessarily win.
Now theres a whole line of random various WBB and immunity mons that also dont necessarily win but also dont necessarily lose and make life a lot harder
:Literally anything: its AAA
Honorable mention lol
Now the cplay to this is a little bit shaky and prediction reliant, but thats okay for this type of mon. On a timer, limited defensive utility, has to predict, wont accomplish too much vs offense. Its a short term nature mon compared to other more reliable special attackers.
I think you sacrifice a lot of what makes Iron Moth so good with this set. Still a threat though and can potentially still be problematic, i just dont see it as of now. Basically i think the first set is so much better but its also not the dangerous one.
tldr: i ramble about moth offensive sets suck moth is goated did i make any sense am i wrong earthquake stocks to the iron moon
Small note, fast Roaring Moon has to run a Jolly nature to outspeed Moth and the Ghosts so OHKOing it is much more reasonable. 252 SpA Life Orb Beads of Ruin Iron Moth Dazzling Gleam vs. 252 HP / 72 SpD Assault Vest Roaring Moon: 395-468 (95.4 - 113%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
I’m seeing all these level 98 corvs on ladder and I can’t help but think to myself, “wow, you guys aren’t trying hard enough.” So, I concocted the perfect corv set that will go on to outclass all other corv sets in the meta:
Corviknight @ Leftovers
Ability: Stall
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- U-turn
- Defog
- Roost
- Brave Bird/Body Press
Idk, probably. Fell free to try it on ladder but I was memeing when I made that set (isn’t meow the only trick user corv switches safely on? I fell like it’ll be knocking corv most of the time anyway)
While the survey did have a deadline of Sunday, the responses have essentially stopped coming in so it has been decided to stop it at 61 responses and release a bit early along with a bit of news!
Gengar
52.5% of respondents were in support for tiering action against Gengar while 32.8% of respondents were against tiering action.
Hisuian Zoroark
57.4% of respondents were in support for tiering action against Hisuian Zoroark while 34.4% of respondents were against tiering action.
Iron Moth
32.8% of respondents were in support for tiering action against Iron Moth while 42.6% of respondents were against tiering action.
Ice Scales
24.6% of respondents were in support for retesting Ice Scales while 55.7% of respondents were against retesting Ice Scales.
2 Ability Clause
29.5% of respondents were in support for retesting 2 Ability Clause while 59% of respondents were against retesting 2 Ability Clause.
Free Responses: Lucario: While similarly a powerful wallbreaker like other controversial mons here, Lucario can suffer from prediction with checks like popular checks like Iron Moth able to switch in on 3/4 of its moves and threaten it out, AV Garchomp needing to be hit with CC on the switch to KO and Corviknight/Garganacl not being OHKO'd by Focus Blast and Steel Beam respectively providing forms of outs, as well as being suffering from being easily pressured offensively with its lower speed and low bulk. Scream Tail: An admittedly amazing defensive piece that can do some quite good damage with Pixilate sets or even as a late-game wincon with CM sets, defensive sets are easily pressured by checks like Iron Moth and Kingambit while more offensive sets can struggle to break through common sets like Well-Baked Body Corviknight and Sand Stream Garganacl. Hadron Engine: While technically better than other boosting abilities, the main abusers of the extra benefit of Electric Terrain, Sandy Shocks and Rotom-Wash, aren't particularly in the realm of being overwhelming and otherwise is a clone of Sheer Force and Beads of Ruins.
_______
Given the large response in support for tiering action against both Gengar and Hisuian Zoroark as well as the controversial community position on Iron Moth despite its lower support for tiering action within the survey, the council held a vote to suspect all three, seen below:
warning: very bad set incoming, if someone can make this work, congratulations
am i cooking? (Hydreigon) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force / Magic Guard
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Crunch
- Dragon Rush
- Flash Cannon / Fire Blast
the idea is that people see this and think "oh it must be mega launcher" but nah its a mixed dd set, couldnt get it to work because: 1. the other mons in my team did everything else 2. scream tail and hatterene everywhere 3. im bad(?)
I guess queenly majesty could also work here to avoid priority since hydreigon is weak to lots of moves with it and it also solves the hatterene problem, if it's triage
warning: very bad set incoming, if someone can make this work, congratulations
am i cooking? (Hydreigon) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force / Magic Guard
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Crunch
- Dragon Rush
- Flash Cannon / Fire Blast
the idea is that people see this and think "oh it must be mega launcher" but nah its a mixed dd set, couldnt get it to work because: 1. the other mons in my team did everything else 2. scream tail and hatterene everywhere 3. im bad(?)
I guess queenly majesty could also work here to avoid priority since hydreigon is weak to lots of moves with it and it also solves the hatterene problem, if it's triage
Honestly for what it is it doesn't look awful? Still a very situational and round-about method of doing what Dreigon already does. Dragon's Maw + Specs + Draco already obliterates a good amount of the meta (including specially bulky mons as most of them are dragons), and its coverage lets it deal with fairies semi-decently as well (the only exception being immunity tinkaton, but that's quite uncommon). I think the main issues with this set are 1) Dreigon isn't too impressive bulk-wise (and carries a more or less mid defensive typing), so positioning it to DD is quite difficult, 2) the set is walled by WBB corv & stail, and 3) the payoff isn't worth not running the aforementioned Specs-Draco-Maw set in most situations (Also relying on dragon rush as stab hurts the soul). Lure sets generally have to be pretty explosive to justify running, and having to set up to use it can be a pretty big no-no.
Honestly for what it is it doesn't look awful? Still a very situational and round-about method of doing what Dreigon already does. Dragon's Maw + Specs + Draco already obliterates a good amount of the meta (including specially bulky mons as most of them are dragons), and its coverage lets it deal with fairies semi-decently as well (the only exception being immunity tinkaton, but that's quite uncommon). I think the main issues with this set are 1) Dreigon isn't too impressive bulk-wise (and carries a more or less mid defensive typing), so positioning it to DD is quite difficult, 2) the set is walled by WBB corv & stail, and 3) the payoff isn't worth not running the aforementioned Specs-Draco-Maw set in most situations (Also relying on dragon rush as stab hurts the soul). Lure sets generally have to be pretty explosive to justify running, and having to set up to use it can be a pretty big no-no.
For what it's worth... 4 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Hydreigon Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Scream Tail: 211-250 (48.6 - 57.6%) -- 64.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (you may have more success reversing the concept around special/physical)
For what it's worth... 4 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Hydreigon Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Scream Tail: 211-250 (48.6 - 57.6%) -- 64.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (you may have more success reversing the concept around special/physical)
Isn't that a very low chance for a 2hko with 2 turns of lefties due to prot? IG you can EV for that tho, so perhaps Stail isn't quite the wall I expected it to be.
Ngl I mega slept on this mon but to be fair people were only using the bad sets for a while. LO SD and Band are still uber bad and really not worth using when Cinderace is right there, it's the Boots SD sets that trouble me more.
HES ON FIRE (Ceruledge) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Desolate Land / Turboblaze
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Bitter Blade
- Shadow Sneak
- Close Combat
So when I was thinking of ways to defensively beat this, my brain ran through a few options. Rather than analyze why this mon is broken, I find it more interesting to simply list them.
-You can't chip it down because Boots + Bitter Blade heals you back
-You can't revenge kill it without a Ghost resist because +2 Shadow Sneak goes brrrr
-You can't switch in a Ghost resist because Close Combat goes brrrr
-You can't give it a free turn because a +2 Ceruledge is infinitely scarier than a +0 Ceruledge, since it not only increases its damage output but also the amount it heals from Bitter Blade
-The best Fire immunity, Corviknight, cannot switch in as a +2 CC outright 2HKOs after Rocks, and Brave Bird can't OHKO a -1 Ceruledge unless it has taken serious chip (which, as explained about, isn't exactly a thing Ceruledge will have to begin with). Rocky Helmet helps but it's not difficult for Ceruledge to find another opportunity to break, given it effectively has 3 immunities to common types
-You can't go Unaware mons because it can just go Turboblaze, which sacrifices Bitter Blade power and checking Quaquaval for fucking over your Scream Tail as well as your off-brand Fire immunities that resist Fighting
-And finally, to illustrate how powerful it is, I sent a PhyDef Earthquake Torkoal in to counter this Ceruledge set. It was at +2 because I gave it a free turn because of a double by my opponent. It 1v1ed my physically defensive Fire resist with 70/140 physical bulk AND a move to hit it super effectively, forced out Torkoal at low health, took down another mon, and then switched out at near full health when I brought my Torkoal in again.
Of course, it's not like there isn't offensive counterplay; there are quite a few offensive Ghost resists/+2 or greater priority users in the tier, and none of them are difficult to fit on teams. Garchomp is also quite threatening, as it has Regen, lives any +2 hit, and always OHKOs back with Quake or Edge. But something with purely offensive counterplay isn't balanced imo. There's having a good MU vs defensive teams, and then there's feasting on them like they're an all-you-can-eat buffet unless you run the one mon that can counter it.
I would like to reiterate the point I stated a couple of pages back that this mon is complete bullshit. I've played a few matches utilizing switch-ins like defensive SD Chomp, Natural Cure Dondozo, etc. and I've come to the conclusion that this mon has 0 long-term defensive counterplay. More experimentation with the 4th moveslot has led to things like MB Wisp and DesoLand Solar Blade to pretty much screw over its switch-ins. My favorite interaction I've had while suspecting was having my Chomp burned on the switch, having it come in again from full after Rocks, and subsequently getting 1v1ed because the Ceruledge was EVed to live 2 burned Quakes after Bitter Blade. I love creativity when building and think that a mon having more options is generally a good thing, but when something like Ceruledge can 1v1 one of its most common and best checks at such a small opprotunity cost, I don't think that's balanced.
Another thing that I hate about Ceruledge is that it's really easy to support. Everything that can revenge kill it either dies to a +2 Sneak after minimal chip (Gengar, Sandy Shocks, Kilowattrel), are only ability-dependant revenge killers (Quaquaval, Rotom-Wash), or are generally easy to prep for (Meowscarda, Kingambit, Greninja). There are only a handful of mons that can reliably revenge-kill Ceruledge, aren't naturally prepped for on most teams, and are decently viable, which includes: Zoro-H (probably getting banned), Hydreigon, Chien-Pao, and Barraskewda. That's really it.
Honestly what pisses me off about Ceruledge the most is that it doesn't really have a bad matchup. It puts in work everywhere from the fattest of balances to the hyperest of offenses with just SD + Bitter Blade + Shadow Sneak, and its 4th move can decide whether you win or lose games by itself. It is beyond frustrating to have counterplay effectively boil down to "haha boy I sure do hope it's not running the move/ability that fucks me over", because that takes the game out of the player's hand and focuses it more on teambuilding, and anyone who knows me knows I hate it when games are decided in builder.
The Iron Moth
(I just wanted to talk about it) (This is just my thoughts opinions)
Desolate Land
Defensive Pivot (Iron Moth) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Desolate Land
EVs: 252 HP / 0-252 SpD / 0-252 Spe / Some physdef(?) / Some Spatk(?)
Timid / Calm Nature
- Fiery Dance
- Discharge / Solar Beam / Dazzling Gleam / Sludge Wave / Toxic Spikes
- U-turn / Solar Beam / Dazzling Gleam / Sludge Wave / Toxic Spikes
- Morning Sun
Iron Moth is the 2nd most used mon in the tier behind corviknight for a reason. Its most used and consistent set is the Desolate Pivot. The defensive especially, checks a lot of different mons in the tier and acts as key speed control. Desolate Land and Fiery Dance boosts gives it quite respectable power even without investment to threaten anything thats neutral to it. This along with the Sun boosted 75% Morning Sun allows it to invest in bulk and switch into attacks, force in responses, and U-turn / attack them. This makes it a strong part of teams adding defensive utility whilst generating momentum, and in a manner that isn't purely defensive.
Along with the expected water/primordial sea types
Iron Moth is the premier switch into Steel Beam and can be an emergency check or live a hit to many others (lol) <- These two it can atleast force the speedtie <- You dont win vs unaware Cm but at the same time you can attempt to pp stall them (especially scream tail), and pivot around them effectively. You can fish for para/poison as well. ~~ and more random stuff. Fire/poison oddly good
What makes this set so good is consistency in its speed + neutral power + bulk + 75% healing to give you a good to decent midground into a lot of mons. It can eventually force Para's on its checks and naturally bypasses Well-Baked-Body all the while gaining momentum with U-Turn as it forces in its checks/counters (nothing likes taking neutral fiery dances otherwise). 75% healing is especially great with the limited recovery PP this gen and allows Iron Moth to take 40-50-60% damage hits and still check mons, unlike other "walls" which would be ruined by that type of damage. Fits on pretty much all team styles, from Offense to Stall.
However, im not sure if this is the set people have in mind when talking about Iron Moth being hard to handle. Its for sure consistent and strong but not exactly unwallable. Those would be the:
Hadron Engine / Beads of Ruin / Sheer Force / Desolate Land (offensive)
Offensive (Iron Moth) @ Life Orb / Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Hadron Engine / Beads of Ruin / Sheer Force / Desolate Land
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Flamethrower / Fire Blast / Fiery Dance
- Discharge / Dazzling Gleam / Sludge Wave / Energy Ball / Solar Beam
- Discharge / Dazzling Gleam / Sludge Wave / Energy Ball / Solar Beam
- Discharge / Dazzling Gleam / Sludge Wave / Energy Ball / Solar Beam / Morning Sun
All of these sets are quite similar, especially the first 3. Offensive Desolate Land still attempts to keep the water immunity and utility in exchange for less non fire damage.
On paper this is a very strong mon, 140 special attack i mean cmon. These sets 2hko most of the meta. People point to this as a premier special threat and potentially problematic. However i dont personally think this set(s) are particularly problematic or even exceptionally effective really.
For one, most of the defensive utilities i listed above are not present with this set. Lacking the water immunity and weather control, and 75% healing and defense EV's. The mon is not that bulky all things considered and really needs those EV's. Also a slight 4msss thing with its coverage.
However the main thing that holds it back for me is the necessity of Life Orb on these sets.
With and stealth rocks in the equation forget almost any defensive utility. You become this all or nothing relatively fast breaker on a timer. The pivot set has the luxury of time and survivability and ignoring its checks with U-turn. These sets try to break through them, and can fall flat in attempting to do so. They must predict well to break through, as they do 2hko* "everything" but only with the correct move twice. All the while incurring life orb and other chip. This also shortens the length of time which you must check this pokemon, much easier to outspeed and force out low.
252 SpA Life Orb Iron Moth Dazzling Gleam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Garchomp: 192-229 (45.7 - 54.5%) -- 5.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery -
Sheer Force, while it comes with the incredible benefit of not taking damage, fails to 2hko chomp making it kinda worse than the others. 252 SpA Life Orb Beads of Ruin / Hadron Engine Iron Moth Dazzling Gleam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Garchomp: 257-304 (61.1 - 72.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery -
252 SpA Life Orb Beads of Ruin / Hadron Engine Iron Moth Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Garchomp: 108-127 (25.7 - 30.2%) -- 0.7% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery -
252 SpA Life Orb Beads of Ruin / Hadron Engine Iron Moth Dazzling Gleam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Garchomp: 172-203 (40.9 - 48.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
These sets while they do beat Garchomp, must hit it on the switch with a dazzling gleam, otherwise it tanks
fire/electric/poison/grass(kindaish) -> dazzling gleam and wins. is getting increasingly popular as well which you will never beat
the other dragon type 252 SpA Life Orb Beads of Ruin / Hadron Engine Iron Moth Dazzling Gleam vs. 252 HP / 72+ SpD Assault Vest Roaring Moon: 359-426 (86.7 - 102.8%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO -
Roaring moon similarly comes in on everything but Dazzling Gleam, but can also tank one most of the time and outspeed. Roaring moon in general is a big problem for Iron Moths being able to outspeed, regen, ohko, and take nothing from most hits.
252 SpA Life Orb Beads of Ruin Iron Moth Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Garganacl in Sand: 187-221 (46.2 - 54.7%) -- 8.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery - Yeah this mon is not dying without Desolate Land Solar Beam to negate the sand. Gets much nicer too if you can come in on a non grass move. SFLO energy ball is nicer for not incurring life orb damage and burning recovers, but with protect and sand it can help pivot around the Moth. It can also "sack" itself for eq/salt cure damage which usually puts Iron Moth too low to do much else with.
with spdef investment can kinda sorta pivot around you or force damage on. Its not the greatest but also an option. All you need to do is force some damage not necessarily win.
Now theres a whole line of random various WBB and immunity mons that also dont necessarily win but also dont necessarily lose and make life a lot harder
:Literally anything: its AAA
Honorable mention lol
Now the cplay to this is a little bit shaky and prediction reliant, but thats okay for this type of mon. On a timer, limited defensive utility, has to predict, wont accomplish too much vs offense. Its a short term nature mon compared to other more reliable special attackers.
I think you sacrifice a lot of what makes Iron Moth so good with this set. Still a threat though and can potentially still be problematic, i just dont see it as of now. Basically i think the first set is so much better but its also not the dangerous one.
tldr: i ramble about moth offensive sets suck moth is goated did i make any sense am i wrong earthquake stocks to the iron moon
I think it's been long enough since I last talked about tatsugiri for me to bring it back up again, this time I'm suggesting that we add offensive tatsugiri to the VR and what's even better is that I actually have a good team to share and hopefully bring to samples this time! Assuming samples are still open... That said, the tatsu set I'm suggesting is the infamous beads of ruin tatsugiri that Lord Box used in his last round of the money tourney to win game 2. After watching this game I thought to myself that his team looked eerily similar to a team I made myself a very long time ago, this prompted me to revisit the team and remodel it into what I have to show you today.
Tatsugiri is the man of the hour so I'll start by explaining this slot, tatsu is an extremely underrated wallbreaker, this thing is able to 2hko or ohko a TON of mons unboosted such as scream tail, florges, chomp, moon, and treads. Remember, this is all unboosted so if you are able to engineer a situation where tatsu can get 1 nasty plot you can beat almost anything short of a vessel of ruin blissey.... although if you can get 2 boosts you have this calc +4 252 SpA Life Orb Beads of Ruin Tatsugiri Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4+ SpD Vessel of Ruin Blissey: 464-546 (64.9 - 76.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO. That said the only real problem that tatsugiri has is its lackluster speed, however rapid spin goes a long way in mitigating this flaw. It may seem a bit hard to safely spin sometimes in an actual game but trust me it's easier than it seems at first.
Moving on to specs kilowattrel, a pretty standard set other than the fact that it's holding specs instead of boots. This is a super good wallbreaker if you can keep rocks off and forms a good core with tatsu, it's able to bring tatsu in with uturn and also provides the team with some much needed speed.
Corv is a pretty standard fluffy set, be careful swapping it in on garchomp since they like to run fire blast now.
Garchomp is also a pretty standard AV set too, the only neat part about it ig is that it carries fire blast for fluffy corv but ig that's normal stuff now.
Scream is another super standard unaware set, nothing creative here I'm pretty sure I just stole it from the VR.
Quaquaval is a rarely seen intimidate set on this team, I was in desperate need of a check for physical fires such as cinderace and I didn't want to deal with dondozo only having rest for recovery so I settled with quaq on here. Also covert cloak is an amazing item and pretty much invalidates garg so that's nice.
The only thing that's really given me trouble with this team is talonflame and the fact that I've apparently been cursed with the power of a million broken mirrors and a thousand black cats to have the worst luck imaginable but it is what it is I guess. Despite my terrible luck though I did get to top 50 or so on ladder before the curse decided I had been happy long enough and knocked me back down.
Anyways I hope this team gets to samples and/or tatsu gets to the VR because of this post but if not I hope that I can provide y'all with a fun team nonetheless. LADDER GREMLIN OUT!
I am stepping down as AAA tier leader; I no longer play or build at a high enough level to really justify the spot, if I ever did. I've always viewed myself as an accidental tier leader, and the metagame is in an amazing spot flush with great contributors, resources, and an active playerbase.
I'll stay on council for now at least to keep helping out with resources, as that's the part I enjoy and felt I was good at, and of course I will still spread AAA propaganda all over PS! and SmogCord. Isaiah obviously will remain TL and very little will change on practical level, but it's time.
The team is pretty straightforward, I started by wanting to build with wash + slither, then slapped the holy quad of balance on; una scream, phys def corv, regen spdef chomp, and deso moth. The team isn’t nothing special but it’s good and “fun” and got me to #34 on ladder in under a day (don’t have proof because I’m stupid but trust) so thought I might as well send it here.
Edit: corv sprite always ruins it
TURTLE ALWAYS WINS
funny trick room team use it it’s fun and actually works
Edit: By working I mean I’ve been using it on my accounts that range from mid to high ladder and have actually been winning :0
Which is extra weird because I made it in about 30 seconds
and can be an emergency check or live a hit to many others
<- These two it can atleast force the speedtie
<- You dont win vs unaware Cm but at the same time you can attempt to pp stall them (especially scream tail), and pivot around them effectively. You can fish for para/poison as well. ~~ and more random stuff. Fire/poison oddly good 
and stealth rocks in the equation forget almost any defensive utility. You become this all or nothing relatively fast breaker on a timer. The pivot set has the luxury of time and survivability and ignoring its checks with U-turn. These sets try to break through them, and can fall flat in attempting to do so. They must predict well to break through, as they do 2hko* "everything" but only with the correct move twice. All the while incurring life orb and other chip. This also shortens the length of time which you must check this pokemon, much easier to outspeed and force out low.
is getting increasingly popular as well which you will never beat
the other dragon type
lol
