Glad that removing DOU hasn't really been brought up much in this thread but yeah please keep it around, I'm pretty indifferent toward bo3 v bo1 in this meta but I'd be fine playing either. Last year this tour provided some of the best quality adv dou games of the year and was crucial for metagame development and since it wasn't brought back for ALTPL the tier is already down representation from last year. There are easily enough players that even an 8 team tour could draft a starter and a competent support if needed.
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Tournaments ADVPL IV Format Discussion
- Thread starter Colteor
- Start date
- Status
I would like to vouch for ADV UUBL. As Glue said, several BL tournaments, be it on forums or on discord, have happened in the past, up until last year, with from what I can gather from most people who played it was seen as a fun tier. The tier has also a good chunk of resources available, including but not limited to sample teams and full length unofficial analysis that are linked in the viability ranking posted in this this thread:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/adv-uubl-discussion.3652530/
Moreover, there is still an interest from the current ADV UU playerbase to see what their tier would look like if a grand scale UUBL drop was to happen. A big tournament such as ADVPL featuring UUBL would be a good opportunity to get a proper idea of what that possibility would bring to the table.
Thank you in advance for your consideration.
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/adv-uubl-discussion.3652530/
Moreover, there is still an interest from the current ADV UU playerbase to see what their tier would look like if a grand scale UUBL drop was to happen. A big tournament such as ADVPL featuring UUBL would be a good opportunity to get a proper idea of what that possibility would bring to the table.
Thank you in advance for your consideration.
As main guy in charge of ADV PU, I'm here to also advocate for including it in ADVPL. The tier itself has undergone a ton of great development in the past year and it feels like we're in a really comfortable spot with our recent reassessment of Baton Pass and how many high level tournaments the tier has been in recently like ADV Slam, PUPL, PUWC, PU Blind Draft (signups are still open btw) and several other forum tours. As I try to get some sample teams together, which is the last thing I have to do to make sure ALL of our resources are up-to-date, I'm excited to take a small break from development, do more playing and enjoy what the tier has become. After reading through the other posts in this thread, it does seem like we already have a lot of support for PU to be included so I'd also like to put in a word of support for ZU to be added to the tour. A lot of my motivation for developing the PU tier with our rebalancing, updating resources, and getting our own subforum in the PU section was driven by ADV ZU's need for development as well. These players are passionate and deserve a lot of recognition for the work they've done with what PU has given. I think there's definitely enough interest in these tiers to include them in this ADVPL.
Throwing my support behind ADV ZU. Its community is incredibly active and passionate, with steady growth in interest following its featuring on ladder last year and another recent boost with its metagame changes. The metagame is very diverse and lively which is why it was by far the most popular format in ZU's ongoing old gens team tour among those signing up, attracting both current "zu mainers" and those from the wider ADV community. Would be amazing to see the metagame get a shot with a slot in this tour as it definitely has the interest for it.
Adding my (admittedly not super valuable) voice to the mix to vouch for UUBL as a potential inclusion. This isn't an indictment against RU or ZU or LC, those tiers have all had incredible growth recently and I'm glad they're being represented in this thread. However, given the potential changes currently being discussed in UU and the wealth of meta evolution that's already been established in UUBL over the last 4-and-a-bit years, I think it's criminal to continue excluding it from relevant tours like these when its representation is the only thing required to spark more lasting interest in it, as shown by its great showings at stuff like UUBPL. It's only an """inactive""" tier because we let it stay inactive by ignoring it in these decisions.
Edit: Personally I'd fill the last three slots with UUBL along with PU and either ZU or LC. RU is great fun but there's so much playerbase overlap
Edit: Personally I'd fill the last three slots with UUBL along with PU and either ZU or LC. RU is great fun but there's so much playerbase overlap
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Would love to see ADV ZU make it in there. The recent support for the tier has boomed and it would add support for a tier with a large player base but not many tournaments to show for it. I think adding it to ADVPL would be good for the community at large to broaden the playerbase in ADV to expand beyond just OU and UU.
Would love to also to LC make it in there. With it being added ladder recently and with the big tournaments recently with it I think it would make a fine addition to ADVPL.
I know that ADV OU is a popular tier but I feel like showing some more love to the other ADV tiers can definitely make this PL more interesting. Would love to see it expanded to 10 slots. Ideally I'd love to see:
3 OU
1 Ubers
1 UU
1 NU
1 PU or RU
1 ZU
1 LC
1 DOU
From a personal bias would also love to see RU but I know that the tier is new and may need more time to develop before it can be added to this.
Would love to also to LC make it in there. With it being added ladder recently and with the big tournaments recently with it I think it would make a fine addition to ADVPL.
I know that ADV OU is a popular tier but I feel like showing some more love to the other ADV tiers can definitely make this PL more interesting. Would love to see it expanded to 10 slots. Ideally I'd love to see:
3 OU
1 Ubers
1 UU
1 NU
1 PU or RU
1 ZU
1 LC
1 DOU
From a personal bias would also love to see RU but I know that the tier is new and may need more time to develop before it can be added to this.
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I know very little about most of the tiers here, but it sounds like there’s enough interest in tiers as a whole to support 8x10 and I’d love to see ADV ZU get recognized in ADVPL, as the somewhat recent unfreeze has revitalized the tier to be by far and away ZU’s most popular old gen to date - ADV ZU ends up clashing in popularity with current gen ZU, which sees dozens of tournament signups as it stands, so there’d certainly be interest in ADV ZU for this tournament as well.
Edit: It sounds like there’s a ton of support for UUBL and LC, so ensuring one of the two gets in as well sounds like it’d be great!
Edit: It sounds like there’s a ton of support for UUBL and LC, so ensuring one of the two gets in as well sounds like it’d be great!
I’ve talked to a few people in different tiers, including OU, and I think this would be the most viable setup:
8 teams w/ 10 slots
OU
OU
OU
DOU
Ubers
UU
NU
PU
For last two slots, some combination of two of (2nd UU, 4th OU, UUBL, RU, ZU, LC)
I’m very confident after reaching out to the playerbases that there is more than enough interest to fill all these slots for 8 teams. The final two slots are really a matter of preference, I think all of them have good enough arguments for consideration, but I think what’s most important is that we include two of them for sure. I don’t like the idea of dropping a second UU but if it’s in the interest of getting more tiers a chance to get involved in a 10 slot format then I think it’s ok.
8 teams w/ 10 slots
OU
OU
OU
DOU
Ubers
UU
NU
PU
For last two slots, some combination of two of (2nd UU, 4th OU, UUBL, RU, ZU, LC)
I’m very confident after reaching out to the playerbases that there is more than enough interest to fill all these slots for 8 teams. The final two slots are really a matter of preference, I think all of them have good enough arguments for consideration, but I think what’s most important is that we include two of them for sure. I don’t like the idea of dropping a second UU but if it’s in the interest of getting more tiers a chance to get involved in a 10 slot format then I think it’s ok.
Hello. As a certified lower tier player, I would like to voice my support for RU, PU and ZU although I am unsure if this could be achieved for all three as I'm not well versed with tour formatting. RU has been a really fun and innovative tier for me to play; there are so many options at your fingertips with the mix of UU and NU Pokemon it offers creating a totally different dynamic to the tier around it and I love to see some support for it here as it would be so wonderful in its development process. I am relatively new to PU compared to other people in the community, but I fell in love with it at first sight, having a very unique cast of viable Pokemon available and is growing at a nice pace so far since it was given a spot in PUPL; would be amazing to generate more momentum for the tier by giving it a spot here. Lastly, I have been an active member in the ADV ZU community for quite a bit now and the tier has seen some amazing development throughout the past year to the point where it's not even recognizable from what it was a year ago and has a large player base in the ZU scene. Having it here would be so gratifying to the hardworking individuals the tier has that have created what it is today.
On a biased personal level I love ADV PU a lot and would happily play it in this tournament, so my support is there, but if ZU/LC/RU etc get chosen that's cool too, they're all good tiers. I don't think anything should be removed (DOU, Ubers, whatever else) except /maybe/ the 2nd UU slot.
I wanna talk real quick about concerns Jirachee/SEA brought up (and maybe others, I didn't read every post sry) about playerbase contamination/not getting enough viable signups. I think it's important to note here that you can't really go off last year's signups or any other year's because the players for these random lower tiers are generally pretty unique and wouldn't be playing in ADV PL otherwise; I don't think I've ever signed up for ADV PL, maybe the first one? And I probably won't, but if PU gets added then that becomes a high chance that I will. I know I'm not alone in this boat, lots of LC players will likely not be signing for instance if LC isn't in the tour - and that's not a spite thing, it's just that that's where their interest lies. My main point here is that you absolutely will get the signups required for 10 starters in any pool you choose to add, so don't be afraid to experiment with 8 teams 10 slots. If nothing else you can just check the signups and decide at a later date like Amaranth suggested/
Do not go w/ 6 teams tho it's absolutely horrendous.
I wanna talk real quick about concerns Jirachee/SEA brought up (and maybe others, I didn't read every post sry) about playerbase contamination/not getting enough viable signups. I think it's important to note here that you can't really go off last year's signups or any other year's because the players for these random lower tiers are generally pretty unique and wouldn't be playing in ADV PL otherwise; I don't think I've ever signed up for ADV PL, maybe the first one? And I probably won't, but if PU gets added then that becomes a high chance that I will. I know I'm not alone in this boat, lots of LC players will likely not be signing for instance if LC isn't in the tour - and that's not a spite thing, it's just that that's where their interest lies. My main point here is that you absolutely will get the signups required for 10 starters in any pool you choose to add, so don't be afraid to experiment with 8 teams 10 slots. If nothing else you can just check the signups and decide at a later date like Amaranth suggested/
Do not go w/ 6 teams tho it's absolutely horrendous.
As somebody whose team got 1st seed in last years 6-team tour,
that sucked.
we had to wait like three whole weeks after qualifying to play our games due to tiebreaks and what-not, it was absolutely horrendous I agree. It felt much more favorable, or at least more exciting, to be the 2nd/3rd seed and duking it out to the finals because of how long everything took. I highly vouch for 8 teams, I believe this tournament will most definitely gain the popularity it needs to supply enough for an 8 team format.
What would help to gain more traction is adding more lower tiers for the developing playerbases. For tier formats I would love to see more lower tiers come through. LC has a decently sized player base and many users have just started coming around to it again and it would be fun to watch competitively. That goes the same for RU from the tournaments I’ve watched. If there is large support for tiers such as ZU / PU I don’t see why not either.
that sucked.
we had to wait like three whole weeks after qualifying to play our games due to tiebreaks and what-not, it was absolutely horrendous I agree. It felt much more favorable, or at least more exciting, to be the 2nd/3rd seed and duking it out to the finals because of how long everything took. I highly vouch for 8 teams, I believe this tournament will most definitely gain the popularity it needs to supply enough for an 8 team format.
What would help to gain more traction is adding more lower tiers for the developing playerbases. For tier formats I would love to see more lower tiers come through. LC has a decently sized player base and many users have just started coming around to it again and it would be fun to watch competitively. That goes the same for RU from the tournaments I’ve watched. If there is large support for tiers such as ZU / PU I don’t see why not either.
People are on the general consensus on 10 slots and in all honesty, I'm all for that as well. More categories mean more unique and expansive ideas thrown into the mix. As a more recent but intruiged ADV Lower Tiers player, I feel more slots and thus more competition between different tiers allow for more players to gain notoriety in the community. This should also allow for a greater general expansion into new, more popular players/creators, which would help to increase the general ADVsphere.
Through patterns and further discussions: OU should maintain it's 3 Spots given it's the most popular format and arguably being the most popular OU outside current Gen, Ubers is guarenteed, likewise with UU (albeit maybe at 1 slot rather than it's former 2) and NU as they're both still relatively popular as old gen metagames.
Other tiers that are likely if not also assured of being added are PU and DOU. PU has a relatively strong history amongst it even with the tier being how it is. There's still an increased demand for PU to be played, with a recent Viability Rankings to reflect that fact. Doubles OU has featured in ADVPL III and it's maintained solid popularity throughout the community, so I don't see any trouble with it remaining.
This leaves us with the following likely candidates of RU, ZU and LC. This next section will be my assessment of the Pros and Cons to each respective tier, and why they should/shouldn't be added.
RU - Pros and Cons
Positive: ADV RU is a fresh tier on peoples minds having the recent introduction of it's RoA Spotlight this January. With the tier being fresh on people's minds, it allows the maintain that momentum that people already have solid usage for and there's foundations there from other individuals who may wish to represent themselves in this tier.
Positive: ADV RU looks exciting and has massive amounts of potential if done correctly, and it has the visibility to shine the lights on a huge variety of Pokemon that are stuck between the UU/NU purgatory.
Negative: Whilst RU is a fresh tier, it almost feels too soon to add a tier much like with Rarely Used due to it's recent induction (From what I've looked at online it was introduced August last year compared to ZU's introduction in 2019 and LC in 2014).
Negative: One of ADV RU's biggest fundamental issues is it doesn't have the sustainability compared to ADV ZU & LC. This is partly due to it being considered more as an "alternate metagame" or a simple sandwich between ADV UU and NU, which are both more distinguished in history and general notority.
ZU - Pros and Cons
Positive: Whilst I had mentioned previously that ADV RU is a fresh tier, the current meta (unfreeze) is a lot more recently established comparatively to ADV RU. This should allow for greater possible tricks and experimentation which would make for these games to be more competitive to the average spectator.
Positive: The ADV ZU community is probably some of the most dedicated group of people I have came across in recent memory (I'm practically patting myself on the back here but that's besides the point), and it's overall the most active Old Gens ZU in terms of the amount of participants listed on Olympiad (some of it's partially due to the recent RoA Tour but it still is accounted for here)
Negative: Despite the charm ZU offers, one might argue that the tier feels a little "too low of a power level" as a result of there being 4 (arguably 5) tiers worth of Pokemon above it. This could also turn people away as a small portion of the community wouldn't like the idea of advertising a lower power level of community.
Negative: ZU is still technically not an "official" metagame with the ongoing drama that had took place towards the end of Generation 8 (2022), and advertising as such would be somewhat contradictory in terms of setting out what are real and fake metagames.
LC - Pros and Cons
Positive: LC offers a unique twist comparatively to the other tiers on this list. Being a tier restricted to level 5 movesets and individual LC Pokemon, it allows for a different playstyle that no other tier would be able to replicate
Positive: ADV LC is much more deeprooted into Smogon History with first word of mention being roughly 2014-15. This makes LC more than old enough as a metagame to have been established, and with it's recent attraction backed up by this history, it brings it all together for a pronounced tier begging for competitive spotlight.
Negative: Whilst there is a charm to such tiers, LC amongst older generations is snubbed primary for more "prestigous" tiers (such as more OU/UU slots). This could also be argued against ZU
Negative: Whilst it might be a unique metagame, some might argue the concept of "Gen"PL was for level 100 all out Pokemon to be viewed in this grand spectacle, and level 5 Pokemon only contradicts the fundamental idea of competitive Pokemon.
My Opinion:
[Don't mind the Positive/Negative Comments btw, this is primary to bring further discussion and it doesn't mean I agree with such opinions]
With everything that has been evaluated, here is what I would propose for ADV IV and how in my opinion would fit best:
- 3x OU
- 1x Ubers
- 1x UU
- 1x NU
- 1x PU
- 1x ZU
- 1x LC
- 1x DOU
Whilst RU is a generally enjoyable tier, and there's an ever-increasing player base for it, I don't think there has been enough time within ADV RU to really jump into it's spot as part of ADVPL IV. The tier isn't quite adjusted with sets or a supported builder to justify the existence of RU for a Premier League Spot, and tiers such as ZU and LC not only have a greater established presence, they've had more increased demand for such tiers, with ADV ZU as a notable example having the most signups compared to any other Old Gen for ZU Olympiad. LC also featured a prize pool tour, something that neither ZU nor RU have bolstered for itself, as well as LC being very much a unique format overall through it's concept as opposed to the standard level 100 stuff.
Of course, there is other stuff I didn't mention here, notably: A 2nd UU/Ubers Slot, a UUBL slot, Monotype, a 4th OU Slot, SU, DUU, etc. And whilst there's some more concrete and less concrete arguments in terms of having stuff added for ADVPL, this is ultimately the best idea going forward in terms of scheduling and I'm hoping that there is enough overall spotlight for such Lower Tiers!
I appreciate everyone for tuning in to this essay/deep dive (1.1k Words), competitive Pokemon should be about expressing positivity among the community, and every tier no matter how big or small should get it's representation in some way or another. It simply comes down to the overall popularity and hype amongst these tiers and within every positively recieved comment, there are dedicated communities out there who too would strive to give their tier some recognition.
Stay blessed!
Through patterns and further discussions: OU should maintain it's 3 Spots given it's the most popular format and arguably being the most popular OU outside current Gen, Ubers is guarenteed, likewise with UU (albeit maybe at 1 slot rather than it's former 2) and NU as they're both still relatively popular as old gen metagames.
Other tiers that are likely if not also assured of being added are PU and DOU. PU has a relatively strong history amongst it even with the tier being how it is. There's still an increased demand for PU to be played, with a recent Viability Rankings to reflect that fact. Doubles OU has featured in ADVPL III and it's maintained solid popularity throughout the community, so I don't see any trouble with it remaining.
This leaves us with the following likely candidates of RU, ZU and LC. This next section will be my assessment of the Pros and Cons to each respective tier, and why they should/shouldn't be added.
RU - Pros and Cons
Positive: ADV RU is a fresh tier on peoples minds having the recent introduction of it's RoA Spotlight this January. With the tier being fresh on people's minds, it allows the maintain that momentum that people already have solid usage for and there's foundations there from other individuals who may wish to represent themselves in this tier.
Positive: ADV RU looks exciting and has massive amounts of potential if done correctly, and it has the visibility to shine the lights on a huge variety of Pokemon that are stuck between the UU/NU purgatory.
Negative: Whilst RU is a fresh tier, it almost feels too soon to add a tier much like with Rarely Used due to it's recent induction (From what I've looked at online it was introduced August last year compared to ZU's introduction in 2019 and LC in 2014).
Negative: One of ADV RU's biggest fundamental issues is it doesn't have the sustainability compared to ADV ZU & LC. This is partly due to it being considered more as an "alternate metagame" or a simple sandwich between ADV UU and NU, which are both more distinguished in history and general notority.
ZU - Pros and Cons
Positive: Whilst I had mentioned previously that ADV RU is a fresh tier, the current meta (unfreeze) is a lot more recently established comparatively to ADV RU. This should allow for greater possible tricks and experimentation which would make for these games to be more competitive to the average spectator.
Positive: The ADV ZU community is probably some of the most dedicated group of people I have came across in recent memory (I'm practically patting myself on the back here but that's besides the point), and it's overall the most active Old Gens ZU in terms of the amount of participants listed on Olympiad (some of it's partially due to the recent RoA Tour but it still is accounted for here)
Negative: Despite the charm ZU offers, one might argue that the tier feels a little "too low of a power level" as a result of there being 4 (arguably 5) tiers worth of Pokemon above it. This could also turn people away as a small portion of the community wouldn't like the idea of advertising a lower power level of community.
Negative: ZU is still technically not an "official" metagame with the ongoing drama that had took place towards the end of Generation 8 (2022), and advertising as such would be somewhat contradictory in terms of setting out what are real and fake metagames.
LC - Pros and Cons
Positive: LC offers a unique twist comparatively to the other tiers on this list. Being a tier restricted to level 5 movesets and individual LC Pokemon, it allows for a different playstyle that no other tier would be able to replicate
Positive: ADV LC is much more deeprooted into Smogon History with first word of mention being roughly 2014-15. This makes LC more than old enough as a metagame to have been established, and with it's recent attraction backed up by this history, it brings it all together for a pronounced tier begging for competitive spotlight.
Negative: Whilst there is a charm to such tiers, LC amongst older generations is snubbed primary for more "prestigous" tiers (such as more OU/UU slots). This could also be argued against ZU
Negative: Whilst it might be a unique metagame, some might argue the concept of "Gen"PL was for level 100 all out Pokemon to be viewed in this grand spectacle, and level 5 Pokemon only contradicts the fundamental idea of competitive Pokemon.
My Opinion:
[Don't mind the Positive/Negative Comments btw, this is primary to bring further discussion and it doesn't mean I agree with such opinions]
With everything that has been evaluated, here is what I would propose for ADV IV and how in my opinion would fit best:
- 3x OU
- 1x Ubers
- 1x UU
- 1x NU
- 1x PU
- 1x ZU
- 1x LC
- 1x DOU
Whilst RU is a generally enjoyable tier, and there's an ever-increasing player base for it, I don't think there has been enough time within ADV RU to really jump into it's spot as part of ADVPL IV. The tier isn't quite adjusted with sets or a supported builder to justify the existence of RU for a Premier League Spot, and tiers such as ZU and LC not only have a greater established presence, they've had more increased demand for such tiers, with ADV ZU as a notable example having the most signups compared to any other Old Gen for ZU Olympiad. LC also featured a prize pool tour, something that neither ZU nor RU have bolstered for itself, as well as LC being very much a unique format overall through it's concept as opposed to the standard level 100 stuff.
Of course, there is other stuff I didn't mention here, notably: A 2nd UU/Ubers Slot, a UUBL slot, Monotype, a 4th OU Slot, SU, DUU, etc. And whilst there's some more concrete and less concrete arguments in terms of having stuff added for ADVPL, this is ultimately the best idea going forward in terms of scheduling and I'm hoping that there is enough overall spotlight for such Lower Tiers!
I appreciate everyone for tuning in to this essay/deep dive (1.1k Words), competitive Pokemon should be about expressing positivity among the community, and every tier no matter how big or small should get it's representation in some way or another. It simply comes down to the overall popularity and hype amongst these tiers and within every positively recieved comment, there are dedicated communities out there who too would strive to give their tier some recognition.
Stay blessed!
I understand you are a ZU mainer and all and want ZU included, but I think this post is extremely unfair and misleading towards RU and we should avoid doing these sort of posts that attack the other tiers and focus on promoting the ones we want to see. I know you kind of couched it as not really an attack but as I read it it's pretty clear that you are making questionable statements that I think need correction.
First off, none of these extra tiers are official tiers. ADV RU is not official, ADV ZU is not official, ADV PU is not official, etc. The only official tiers are ADV Ubers, ADV OU, ADV UU, and (questionably) ADV NU. The reason these tiers are official is because they are created off usage stats and not VRs or anything else (although the modern NU is kind of a strange combination/creation by Oglemi but we've mostly accepted it as official anyways). So I don't think official status or not has any bearing on including these tiers. It's about what we want to play and what we have fun playing and what the community wants to see being played.
Now, as for saying RU is "too new", I don't think this is terribly important. It's important only in the sense that maybe some tiers have been "waiting longer" for a chance of inclusion but the bottom line is it's not about the age of the tier, it's about the community and about the competitive nature and value that the tier has to bring. RU brings all of this and I have yet to really meet anyone that does not enjoy the tier. Also, to use this as a con while also giving a misleading statement about ADV LC existing since 2014 is just wrong - the modern ADV LC is not the same tier as 2014, it's experienced a total reawakening thanks to the efforts of several very dedicated users that wanted to revive the tier over the past couple of years. That's not a swipe at LC either - I think LC has a great following and a dedicated playerbase - I just don't think it's necessary to try to use this as a slight against RU in such a fashion.
As for the sustainability question - I have absolutely no idea what you're getting at here? It's a sandwich between UU and NU? That can be said about almost any tier - PU is but a "sandwich" between ZU and NU. LC and ZU perhaps share a lot of similar mons, just with some playing in a level 5 format. This isn't a bad thing, it's just a very weird statement to use against RU specifically. Additionally, RU has almost no overlap with mons in UU because, well, the whole basis of RU was to use mons that are RARELY used (in fact nearly never used) in UU. The only real mons in ADV RU that also get used in UU are the mons that are technically NU legal and thus legal by default. I also just don't really understand how you can use the fact that UU and NU have a richer history as a slight against RU but not against LC and ZU and PU even - it applies to all three tiers. In fact, the tier that probably matches up the best in terms of history and notoriety is UUBL, which you seemingly dismissed as not a real option for whatever reason.
That being said I think ZU is a great tier with a dedicated playerbase as well (and LC as previously mentioned). I agree that PU should have a guaranteed slot, but I think the other slots should be whatever the majority of community:
A) wants to play
B) can provide a competitive player base to fill
C) generally enjoys seeing in the tournament
If that's PU, ZU, LC, then great. All these tiers have a good basis for inclusion. If it's PU, RU, and UUBL, that's great too. We love to get more tiers involved in these things. But I would really feel bad about letting RU get slighted because people have misconceptualized it. I personally would love to see it included but I obviously have bias as someone who generally plays it more than ZU or LC. However, I'm not going to attack the other tiers or try to bring up their flaws. I just want to play in a good tournament that's competitive in all regards and I hope we can find a good compromise on how to do so moving forward.
Just here to show support of 8 teams 10 slots, its been clear people have not been big on having a 1st seed wait a full week (2 weeks in case of semis tiebreaker) to finally play the finals game while losing all the momentum they built on regular season coming on finals vs a more "warmed up" team, with 10 slots I also agree that the additional uu slot can be taken out without hurting the tours quality, 8 players is a good enough number while many of the adv uu players are very capable of playing other adv tiers as well.
For the new tiers I totally support the inclusion of PU, imo its a no brainer, it has a lot of success and its already been seeing play in pu teamtours, LC is another one I would find interesting to see the inclusion, the playerbase has been growing quite a bit and there are already some very well stablished players, on top of already having multiple individuals concluded and one on-going and seeing teamtour play, as for the 10th slot you can call me biased or anything but I really think RU is a good inclusion, we've had multiple individual tours already and the players seem to like the tier a lot with very few to no complaints while the tier grows and goes for adaptations, since the beginning of the tier no action was needed so I can say with confidence its just a very stable and healthy. I don't believe the tier being too new is a problem as its not just a "what if" tier anymore but a reality like any other tier that has been mentioned here, just a reminder that PU, ZU and LC all have had recent massive changes in the last year so its not in a different boat as RU, and I find all of the tiers great. I think its at the very least worth the consideration.
For the new tiers I totally support the inclusion of PU, imo its a no brainer, it has a lot of success and its already been seeing play in pu teamtours, LC is another one I would find interesting to see the inclusion, the playerbase has been growing quite a bit and there are already some very well stablished players, on top of already having multiple individuals concluded and one on-going and seeing teamtour play, as for the 10th slot you can call me biased or anything but I really think RU is a good inclusion, we've had multiple individual tours already and the players seem to like the tier a lot with very few to no complaints while the tier grows and goes for adaptations, since the beginning of the tier no action was needed so I can say with confidence its just a very stable and healthy. I don't believe the tier being too new is a problem as its not just a "what if" tier anymore but a reality like any other tier that has been mentioned here, just a reminder that PU, ZU and LC all have had recent massive changes in the last year so its not in a different boat as RU, and I find all of the tiers great. I think its at the very least worth the consideration.
echoing Lhions
adv dou is arguably the fastest format on the site, and bo3 would greatly reduce variance in a tier where boom can swing a game completely in one turn. i am confident that building 2-3 teams for a week is a non-issue as the tier is very easy to build coherent teams in due to the limited pool of pokemon.
also 6 teams giving bye week in playoffs is bad, 8 teams good.
adv dou is arguably the fastest format on the site, and bo3 would greatly reduce variance in a tier where boom can swing a game completely in one turn. i am confident that building 2-3 teams for a week is a non-issue as the tier is very easy to build coherent teams in due to the limited pool of pokemon.
also 6 teams giving bye week in playoffs is bad, 8 teams good.
wow that's a LOT of meaningless buzzwords to essentially shit on every non zu tier
all the unnofficial tiers in this gen are pretty fun, plan to try and catch as many dou games live as i can that tier is HEAT
also delete 6 team PLs when there's enough people for 8x10 the format just works better that way
Hey everyone! I'm a DOU main and recently I've been playing a lot of the ADV lower tiers. It started with ADV LC in a Discord LC team tournament (LPL), a couple of weeks later I got the chance to play ADV NU and ADV PU in ADV Grand Slam, and then I got an opportunity to play ADV RU and ADV ZU in the Monthly ROA Tournaments. I never thought I would enjoy playing singles because it never clicked with me but something about the ADV tiers is special.
It would be awesome to include more of the lower tiers into this team tournament, but I understand that slots are limited so I'm hoping the tour gets expanded to 8x10 slots. I'm glad that ADV DOU is still being included because like zee mentioned in their post, it did suck when ALTPL dropped the tier. I don't have much else to say so I'll end it with saying thank you :)
It would be awesome to include more of the lower tiers into this team tournament, but I understand that slots are limited so I'm hoping the tour gets expanded to 8x10 slots. I'm glad that ADV DOU is still being included because like zee mentioned in their post, it did suck when ALTPL dropped the tier. I don't have much else to say so I'll end it with saying thank you :)
Here to support 8x10 cos the 6 team #1 seed bye thing isn't great, and to say that I think it's really cool to see all these different ADV tiers get a bunch of support. I'm here for ADV PU and not so much involved in the other tiers, it seems I don't have to campaign for the tier so I wish good luck to the other tiers for getting inclusion!
I would definitely support increasing the amount of teams to 8.
I would probably support minimal or no changes to the tiers (I would accept an argument to replace DOU with a singles tier of something more popular). If the consensus is 10 slots then I would be fine adding ADV PU and ADV LC.
I would probably support minimal or no changes to the tiers (I would accept an argument to replace DOU with a singles tier of something more popular). If the consensus is 10 slots then I would be fine adding ADV PU and ADV LC.
Glad to see all the discussion in this thread so far, a lot more people interested than I thought which is great! So far there seems to be a few things reaching a consensus.
Also heavily support making dou bo3, this is one of the most fast paced and volatile tiers out there + building in it is fun and not too difficult, perfect fit for bo3 imo. Edit: If OU4 is added one of the OU slots should 100% be bo3 imo. I'd support this even if we don't get OU4, a bo3 ou slot is a ton of fun.
Also also, no matter what tiers are in we'll need good managers and lots of solid players for 8x10 when the tour starts. So I hope you all spread the word however you can to get as many people as possible signing up!
- Ou x3, ubers uu nu dou x1 all mandatory
- 8x10 is leading by far for the teams/slot count, 8x8 has some votes and literally no one wants 6 teams.
- PU seems to be the most suggested tier to add.
Also heavily support making dou bo3, this is one of the most fast paced and volatile tiers out there + building in it is fun and not too difficult, perfect fit for bo3 imo. Edit: If OU4 is added one of the OU slots should 100% be bo3 imo. I'd support this even if we don't get OU4, a bo3 ou slot is a ton of fun.
Also also, no matter what tiers are in we'll need good managers and lots of solid players for 8x10 when the tour starts. So I hope you all spread the word however you can to get as many people as possible signing up!
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Would like to throw my hat in the ring to make a case for ADV BL. There has been a growing sentiment among ADV gamers that we should revisit and fix the current ADV tiering structure which resulted in an unusable list of 50 mons - enough to fill an entire tier. ADVPL is the perfect place to showcase the tier and prove that not much balancing would be required in order to full drop it to ADV UU and restructure our tiers accordingly.
For that reason, I would support a 10 tier structure as follows:
OU / OU / OU / Ubers / BL / UU / PU / NU
With 2 of DOU/LC/ZU. My personal preference would be ZU and then one of DOU/LC.
For that reason, I would support a 10 tier structure as follows:
OU / OU / OU / Ubers / BL / UU / PU / NU
With 2 of DOU/LC/ZU. My personal preference would be ZU and then one of DOU/LC.
I think its great that many different adv communities have to come together to push for their preferred tier to be in ADV PL
However saying UUBL isn't active isn't the best argument, The post I made previously shows at least 60 people had entered to play BFM's UUBL tournament.
Idk if UUBL has a genuine community outside of ADV UU players discussing if they want to do a full grand drop for the tier.
However I do bet many people would genuinely be interested picking up the tier and playing it for the first time.
Most tiers from RU, LC, PU and Doubles are all new themselves and they have gained popularity by being played in tournaments.
This is also ADV BL's only chance to be showcased in a Team Tour as ADV BL is only related to ADV itself whereas ADV UU can be played in UU & ADV community Team Tournaments.
I would like to suggest a google poll to be used to help determine the final tiers for the tour to see what tiers people have an interest playing in.
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