Absol Discussion

[Phuquoph]

http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-dp/359.shtml

I've been looking at Absol recently as I considered him on my "Not Quite Standard" team. I searched the forums and found only two discussion threads, neither of which mentioned what I think is a really useful move on him. It may have been discussed elsewhere though. So which move is this? Read on and find out.

Absol @ Leftovers/Expert Belt/Muscle Band
Trait: Super Luck
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Swords Dance
- Night Slash
- Psycho Cut
- Rock Smash

Simple set up, just Swords Dance and hammer everything with Night Slash. Fighting types get taken down with Psycho Cut, Jolly nature will outspeed Adamant Heracross which is a big plus. Shame that Dark types wall Night Slash and Psycho Cut...

Alright, it's Rock Smash. That's right - Rock Smash. Before you start laughing (oh, too late?) take a look at these damage calculations against three of the top Dark types.

Tyranitar

6 HP/0 Defense EVs Tyranitar takes 49 - 57%.

Not a guaranteed 2HKO, but you have the 50% chance of a Defense drop and a 25% chance for a critical hit (93 - 100%).

After a Swords Dance it does 96 - 100%.

Again, not guaranteed but close enough. Any kind of boosting item (Expert Belt, Life Orb, Muscle Band) will guarantee the kill.

So that's the best case scenario for Absol. Worst (likely) case scenario is Tyranitar has max HP.

252 HP/0 Defense EVs Tyranitar takes 41 - 49%.

Again, you've got possible Defense drops, a critical hit or boosting item to make up the slack.

After a Swords Dance Tyranitar takes 81 - 95% without a boosting item. Muscle Band is 89 - 100% and Expert Belt is 97 - 100%.

So it's not an absolute (no pun intended) guaranteed victory for Absol, but it's a VERY strong possibility.

Absol is also faster than Jolly Tyranitar so you can afford to stay in and finish him off.



Weavile

6 HP/0 Defense EVs Weavile takes 90 - 100%.

That's BEFORE a Swords Dance. Which is good as you can't afford to stay in on Weavile unless it's paralyzed.



Houndoom

6 HP/0 Defense EVs Houndoom takes 53 - 62%

Guaranteed 2HKO, OHKO after a Swords Dance obviously and a critical hit will also OHKO.

You should switch out of Houndoom really, since he's faster and can OHKO with his Fire moves or burn you with Will-O-Wisp.

But it only gets to switch in once.



Yes, he has Stone Edge which works with his trait and it will outdamage Rock Smash against Houndoom and Weavile - easily OHKOing them both. But it only has 100 BP against Tyranitar and less than perfect accuracy and even with a critical hit it won't OHKO Tyranitar without a Swords Dance. Obviously, Absol cannot switch in on any of these Pokemon, so catching them on the switch is what you'll need to do.

Should you want to try a Choice Scarf/Band set, then you can easily add Stone Edge in place of Swords Dance (although my preference would be Pursuit).

Steel types also wall Dark/Psychic but thankfully, many of them (Metagross, Jirachi, Bronzong) are part Psychic and take neutral damage from Night Slash. Lucario takes more damage from Rock Smash than from Psycho Cut, although you've got a better chance to critical him with Psycho Cut.

This doesn't change the fact that Absol is really frail, has rather mediocre Speed, has one single immunity and two resistances to switch in on. Nor does it change the fact the likes of Garchomp, Lucario and Gallade are arguably better Swords Dancing sweepers. However, I think Absol is certainly worth considering on an OU team if you're one of those "I hate standards" people or you simply want to try something different.

So, discuss Rock Sma...er, Absol!

 

[Footnote]

Mmmmm mm! I do hate those standards. But I love your outside-the-box thinking on Absol, here! I knew Rock Smash doubled in power since last gen, but I still dismissed it too easily. I'll seriously consider trying this out.

Looking back over the notes in my Pokédex, I was planning on trying Me First in that fourth slot, but I like your idea better. I guess it shouldn't have surprised me that having the Fighting/Psychic/Dark trifecta on the same Pokémon would be so awesome. Now to find a good Pokémon that can pull off Fire/Water/Grass, just for fun.

 

[Revamparts]

The 50% defense drop chance is savory. If for some reason one of those Dark types had to switch, or you used rock smash on something else that switched, you'd begin your next bout with a potentially great advantage as a physical attacker.

 

[phatJacob07]

yaay rock smash

Absol is so absolutely cool, except or course for the total frailty.

I was thinking of maybe pairing him with an Agility-passing Gliscor, who could scare out Hera and other physicals walled by Gliscor.

Absol might also work as a BP anchor, seeing as he has the nice sweeper Attack, and can BP back out – providing BP teams get back some popularity.

 

[ABSOLute]

I guess i'm required to post in this thread, but there unfortunately isn't much to say. ;; Swords Dance/Psycho Cut/Night Slash is pretty much set in stone.

I am curious why you chose rock smash over X-Scissor though.

 

[Phuquoph]

X-Scissor has the same BP against Weavile, Tyranitar and Houndoom but doesn't have a useful side effect. Night Slash does more damage to Psychics and Grasses take a shit load of damage from it. Grabbing a Defense drop on something else is more than useful than an extra 40 BP damage, most of the time.

If they're not sending in Darks, say they're sending in Skarmory you'll find a possible Defense drop more useful than even a critical Night Slash as it can't really afford to stay in to take CB attacks from whatever you switch in next. Same goes for Steelix, Empoleon, etc.

 

[Bliksem]

I have to admit that the use of Rock Smash took me greatly by surprise, and makes me overjoyed as I feel Pokemon is moving closer to my dream of at least 80% of all the attacks being useful.

 

[Warthog]

Id use Rock Smash but then you take a look at its move pool.. and you remember it learns Baton Pass.

 

[Footnote]

I don't know. I like Rock Smash over Baton Pass. Absol's just a little too frail and a little too slow to make a great Baton Passer.

 

[Bliksem]

Agreed. Absol has Baton Pass as an option, but it's not a Baton Passer primarily, even with the stat-up moves it learns, in my opinion. It means to use those boosts for itself then transfer them *if* it gets into trouble, but generally, it won't last long enough to get the transfer off.

 

[Khawarith]

Focus Lens is very viable on Absol as well. It gives a 50% crit rate with Night Slash and Psycho Cutter.

 

[Bliksem]

Absol, and others like it, are basically assurrances against Pokemon that increase their stats via Calm Mind, Curse, or Bulk Up, should D/P take that path.

 

[Maslada]

I always thought Absol looked cool and with scope lens you have a 50/50 chance of critical hits with the high critical hit ratio attacks. I was just wondering what EVs you would use? i would be reluctant to max speed for the simple reason the only way i see it being fast enough is to have agility passed from it from say jolteon. Can anyone recommend any defense EV sets that would allow it to survive some key attacks when passing in Absol?

 

[Edux]

I always thought Absol looked cool and with scope lens you have a 50/50 chance of critical hits with the high critical hit ratio attacks. I was just wondering what EVs you would use? i would be reluctant to max speed for the simple reason the only way i see it being fast enough is to have agility passed from it from say jolteon. Can anyone recommend any defense EV sets that would allow it to survive some key attacks when passing in Absol?

If you are going that way then...

Adamant (+Atk, -SpA)
EVs: 252 HP / 210 Atk / 48 Spd

Enough Speed to reach 198 so after Passing an Agility you outspeed many Pokemon, then max HP lets you survive any non boosted Tyranitar, Metagross and Garchomp attack (barely but it does...) and obviouly of the Pokemons with less Attack than them (the same applies for Special attackers since Absol has both defenses equally)

 

[Violent Storm]

Absol has the very bad problem without Agility being passed to it or what have you, of being slower than Heracross and the like which hurts its usability in a more standard setting, not to mention the fact that its defenses are not exactly spectacular to begin with. Now Heracross certainly might think twice about switching into an Absol that had been agility boosted as Psycho Cut poses a serious threat. Absol will probably see some play in the Underused Enviornment where people will cry about HAX but I don't forsee it making it into the mainstream, but I could be wrong on that

 

[ABSOLute]

Most Heracross are adamant (at least in advance they were, but i don't see why that would change) and jolly Absol can outspeed adamant Heracross by 3 points or something like that.

Unfortunately, i have always found it quite difficult to BP agility to Absol due to his inability to switch in to anything but psychic, so Jolly is probably the way to go. I must admit that it is difficult to get a psychic aimed at your Ninjask, Jolteon or Zapdos though.

 

[Phuquoph]

Rock Polish Gliscor is probably the way to go, resisting both of Absol's weaknesses is nice too. Even with minimum HP Absol will survive Surfs and Ice Beams from the likes of Starmie and Milotic, assuming it isn't Choice Specs or Life Orb Starmie. Swampert's Avalanche does very little to Absol too, although you'd need a critical hit Night Slash to avoid getting offed by an Earthquake the next turn.

You might get someone to throw a Psychic at Agility passing Blaziken or a Shadow Ball/Dark Pulse at Sub/Salac Drifblim.

 

[Mekkah]

Perhaps it's just me, but a Pokemon with 130 base Attack, 75 base Speed and general frailty strikes me as one that wants to use Adherance Scarf.

I love Absol's Clefablish movepool. I hate saying this since I harp on others about it all the time but he really deserved a stat boost or two or an evolution or something to realize the options. He's got the tools to scare off phazers as a Baton Passer, but not the stats (particulary the defenses). And his design is so damn cool...

I love the addition of Sucker Punch though, if I'm ever using Absol I so want to try that out and kill Dugtrio with it. The addition of Will-o-Wisp is pretty cool as well.

 

[Phuquoph]

I only posted the Swords Dancer because that's what I considered on my last team. I'd agree that Choice Scarf is the safer option, especially in OU. Partly because it leaves you room for Pursuit or maybe Stone Edge.

I should probably own up to being inspired (which is a nice way of saying "I stole this from...") by the Leer Zangoose set in the Advance Strategydex.

Sucker Punch vs. Night Slash is a bit of a quandry. Sucker Punch still has a decent crit rate with his trait though. Generally, I'd say Night Slash for Choice Scarf, Sucker Punch for Choice Band.

 

[Marowak]

Yeah, as Mekkah said, an Ascarf set might be good on this guy. You'll still have a HIGH Crit chance making it an awesome Hit&Run Sweeper. Or if you get lucky, you might just stay in and finish something off.....

 

[Allosteric]

I thought up a gimmick moveset the other day. I'm not sure if I should have made a new topic or not, but here goes:

EVs: 252 Attack, 252 Speed, 6 HP
Nature: Jolly
Item: I'm not sure. Maybe Leftovers, or a Salac Berry.
Ability: Pressure
1. Snatch
2. Magic Coat
3. Sucker Punch
4. Night Slash/Psycho Cut

This set will almost certainly never see competitive play, and you need to be a god of prediction to use it, but it's a total blast if you can pull it off, and it really messes with your opponent's head. If they try to attack, they get a STAB'd Sucker Punch to the face. If they try to inflict a status effect, it gets Magic Coat'd right back at them. If they try to raise their own stats or make a Substitute, it gets Snatched right from under them. Night Slash and Psycho Cut are generic attacking moves. Thoughts? I'm new, so I need all the criticism I can get.

 

[Sir Spanky]

If you didn't want to use Adherance scarf, then Life Orb seems like a good idea, and it only improves your Rock Smash calcs.

 

[TVboyCanti]

Time to bump this thread, because I want to throw this set out there.
Absol @ focus sash
adamant
ability = super hax

swords dance
psycho cut
night slash/baton pass
sucker punch

This set hurts a lot of stuff not named tyranitar or skarmory. focus sash gives it a free swords dance. Sucker Punch then lets it hit the pokemon that would have killed it. Night Slash is for hitting stuff that would predict the sucker punch and try to set up on absol. baton pass is alternative for passing the swords dance should a tyranitar or skrmry be a problem for your team. psycho cut covers fighting types and gains boost from super hax ability.
I think this set has potential to devestate teams if used correctly. However, there are so many pokemon that I am trying out right now, absol is on the bottom of the list, especially since I have to breed it in DP, so I would like people to comment on this and try it out if your going to make an absol.

 

[Forsety]

I'm of opinion Sucker Punch being a must on Absol no matter what moveset.

Getting off an Agility onto Absol or Swords Dance is never a guarantee. So when you have a first strike 120 power attack running off 130 attack base on something slowish you almost most definitely want to run it as a finisher. Even if your brought to near death at least you can leave a heavy mark with it. Also with Super Luck + Focus Lens I think Absol still gets what, 25% or 33% crit on Sucker Punch?

Also you may want to use Absol in tandem with Scyther or even Scizor. Scyther is pretty much the only Agility Baton Passer who laughs at both of Absol's weaknesses so it maybe safer for switching in Absol without it dying straight away. Not that its a big help seeing Absol dies from alot of things anyway.

 

[Kevin_Raven]

What about pursuit on Absol? Is that a viable option? Absol might scare off some ghosts or psychics