A quick edit on a previously posted team.. (RMT)

[pokecheez]

This was posted a few weeks back by ADH, when I first started coming to these boards. I've been watching for quite some time, and I think I've learned the ropes for the most part. I decided to start off by editing someone's team to potentially make it better and in the coming days I'll post some of my own teams.

As this is my first post, try to be lenient. ^_^

So anyway, I basically took ADH's strategy (right here: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18344), got rid of the Blissey and Electivire, and added in a Togekiss and a Dusknoir. With the added Togekiss, I can still block special attacks, and I can also use some of the great moves that Togekiss has in its movepool. Because of Togekiss's trait, Serene Grace (doubles likelihood of effects from moves to occur), I can paralyze and flinch Pokes to no end with my set. Dusknoir is added in because he's a great defensive tank, and a useful annoyer.

So besides the Poison Spikes/Stealth Rock/Sandstream strategy ADH had, I add in a little twist so I can remove Blissey and maybe make the team better. (As you can see, I cannot stand Blissey. Not because I don't think I can defeat one, but because EVERYONE uses them. It's getting old..)

Here's the team:

Hippowdon @ Leftovers = Ground = Weak: Grass / Water / Ice.
Nature: Impish (+Def -SAtk)
Trait: Sandstream
EVs: 196 HP / 112 Atk / 200 Def
-Earthquake
-Stone Edge
-Stealth Rock
-Slack Off

Drapion @ Poison Sludge / Beautiful Skin = Poison / Dark = Weak: Psychic / Ground / Bug / Fighting.
Nature: Impish (+Def -SAtk)
Trait: Battle Armor
EVs: 176 HP / 156 Def / 176 Spd
-Poison Spikes
-Knock Off
-Taunt
-Whirlwind

Gliscor @ Leftovers = Ground / Flying = Weak: Grass / Water / Icex2 / Electric / Rock.
Nature: Impish (+Def -SAtk)
Trait: Sand Veil
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
-Aerial Ace
-Earthquake
-Knock Off
-Feather Rest

Togekiss @ Leftovers = Normal / Flying = Weak: Fighting / Electric / Rock / Ice.
Nature: Modest (+SAtk -Atk)
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Spd / 252 SAtk
-Air Slash
-Nasty Plot
-Body Slam
-Roost

Slowbro @ Leftovers = Water / Psychic = Weak: Electric / Grass / Bug / Dark / Ghost.
Nature: Bold (+Def -Atk)
Trait: Own Tempo
EVs: 196 HP / 252 Def / 60 SAtk
-Surf
-Ice Beam
-Thunderbolt
-Slack Off

Dusknoir @ Ganlon Berry = Ghost = Weak: Ghost / Dark.
Nature: Bold (+Def -Atk)
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SDef / 4 Def
-Curse
-Mean Look
-Night Shade
-Rest

Weaknesses distributed among team: 3 is max.
Bug: 2
Dark: 2
Dragon: 0
Electric: 3
Fighting: 2
Fire: 0
Flying: 0
Ghost: 2
Grass: 3
Water: 2
Steel: 0
Rock: 2
Psychic: 1
Poison: 0
Normal: 0
Ground: 1
Ice: 3

I always do that ^^^ for some reason. It's helpful to see all of the weaknesses at once.

And here's the threat list (most of it will be from his thread)..

Tyranitar: Gliscor walls it for free and kills it with little trouble with STAB Earthquake. Drapion has dark resist, Hippowdon resists Stone Edge.

Gyarados: Slowbro handles it well, along with Stealth Rock from the Hippo.

Infernape: Slowbro takes care of physical iterations and doesn't take much damage from special ones either. Perhaps an EV tweak would help him take it better though.

Azelf: I'm a little concerned about Azelf currently.. Dusknoir shouldn't have too much of a problem with it though.

Rhyperior: Hippowdon doesn't take much damage from Rhyperior's attacks and can just Slack Off the damage. Poison damage combined with eating STAB Earthquakes would gradually wear him down. Gliscor can also stall against him, but is opposite to Hippowdon in that he's immune to Earthquake and takes normal damage from Stone Edge.

Electivire: HP Grass iterations could be a bitch, but there's only one Pokemon on my team running an electric attack, making it tough for him to set up. He doesn't like taking all those STAB Earthquakes either. Gliscor is my best bet despite 4x weak to Ice Punch since he takes neutral to HP Grass.

Heracross: I think I've soundly beaten the bastard down enough in the team description.

Salamence: Slowbro can limitedly test for if he's CB, DD, or AG, but outside of Hydro Pump and Flamethrower Slowbro has trouble taking the dragon attacks. It's easy enough to bait Hydro Pump though thanks to my water weaks. Once its physical / special nature is determined either Gliscor / Hippowdown wall it.

Togekiss: Slowbro does a fine job of taking care of it, but doesn't like flinch hax. Gliscor doesn't take much from Grass Rope, takes some from Air Slash, and is immune to TWave, but unless I'm running Ice Fang it can't do much back aside from Knock Off its Leftovers and let Stealth Rock damage compound.

Gengar: eh, not too big of an issue. Plenty of Thunderbolt immunities, Weavile can Pursuit him for a near-OHKO, but double status could be an issue.

Garchomp: Slowbro takes care of him utterly, Gliscor walls him well, and Hippowdon whittles down his HP decently.

Raikou: HP Ice Raikou could be a pain. He's probably the biggest nuisance to the team, but Gliscor could possibly handle an HP Grass one prior to +2 CM. I'll damage calc later.

Lucario: amidst all the STAB Earthquakes, I've gotten Lucario pretty well covered.

Starmie: Togekiss/Dusknoir are not counters per se, but it walls it decently. Another nuisance to the team. I need smart switching to keep AG sets from wreaking havoc, but poison and Stealth Rock damage should take its toll.

Weavile: one more problem for the team, its STAB Ice Punch is super-effective on two of my walls. Drapion can Knock Off its Life Orb or CB, and Stealth Rock does considerable damage to it along with compounding Sandstream and poison damage.

Dugtrio: lol, Duggy can only trap my Drapion should he not be running Beautiful Skin and traps Slowbro, Hippowdon, Dusknoir, and Togekiss otherwise, none of which have an issue taking it out.

Jirachi: lots of STAB Earthquakes make Jirachi sad, but Wishpassing could be a nuisance along with its resistance to Stealth Rock and immunity to Poison Spikes. Knock Off could be annoying to it though. Another nuisance.

Celebi: Slowbro can take him with Ice Beam.

Manaphy: Slowbro doesn't take much damage from Grass Rope but Energy Ball could be a problem. Hydration isn't much of an issue thanks to Sandstream.

And there you have it. If you read all of it, you are teh pwn.

Questions, comments, and constructive criticisms are most definitely welcome.

^_^

 

[Synesthetic]

Poison / Dark = Weak: Psychic / Ground / Bug / Fighting.

Drapion's Dark typing makes it immune to Psychic attacks. Its Poison typing also provides a Fighting resistance.

 

[pokecheez]

Drapion's Dark typing makes it immune to Psychic attacks. Its Poison typing also provides a Fighting resistance.

Yea probably on a few of them, because of their dual types, the weaknesses overlap and therefore make them irrelevant. I just like to be sure. :)

 

[Phuquoph]

The problem with taking someone else's team and switching it around is you can lose some of the synergy it once had.

Slowbro can't learn Thunderbolt, nor can he hurt Celebi much with Ice Beam. Grass Knot has exactly the same BP as Energy Ball does against Slowbro.

Celebi is actually a bit of a dick to this team. Since Natural Cure gets rid of poison and he can Recover off any damage easily as only Togekiss hurts him significantly.

Togekiss' Body Slam clashes with Toxic Spikes, since you'll only be able to paralyze Poison, Flying and Steel types.

I think you'd be better off making your own team from scratch, rather than trying to rework someone else's.

 

[pokecheez]

The problem with taking someone else's team and switching it around is you can lose some of the synergy it once had.

Slowbro can't learn Thunderbolt, nor can he hurt Celebi much with Ice Beam. Grass Knot has exactly the same BP as Energy Ball does against Slowbro.

Celebi is actually a bit of a dick to this team. Since Natural Cure gets rid of poison and he can Recover off any damage easily as only Togekiss hurts him significantly.

Togekiss' Body Slam clashes with Toxic Spikes, since you'll only be able to paralyze Poison, Flying and Steel types.

I think you'd be better off making your own team from scratch, rather than trying to rework someone else's.

Well I don't have to worry at all about Celebi, considering I won't be fighting one. Me and the guys I'll be fighting on Wifi all agreed to no legendaries, so that definitely isn't a problem.

I'll edit Togekiss' Body Slam and use another flinching move or maybe a stat increaser. I'll check it out.

I'll also edit Slowbro's move set.

I agree that editing someone's team might screw it up, but I think I did a pretty good job making an alternative. No one likes a team with a Blissey on it, so I thought changing that aspect of it would make it that much better.

 

[Jumpman16]

No one likes a team with a Blissey on it, so I thought changing that aspect of it would make it that much better.

I can't believe people are still saying this stuff...

 

[e4protector]

Get used to Blissey. I've found a way to circumvent it though. I <3 my Lotus for special walling, Gardevoir has CM and Wish to special wall + the SDef needed to do it (base 115, Lotus Gardevoir's final stat is 350 (greater than standard Blissey's 306). It works quite well in all actuality.

 

[Surgo]

Get used to Blissey. I've found a way to circumvent it though. I <3 my Lotus for special walling, Gardevoir has CM and Wish to special wall + the SDef needed to do it (base 115, Lotus Gardevoir's final stat is 350 (greater than standard Blissey's 306). It works quite well in all actuality.

That hardly seems like a viable "wall", seeing as how it's 2HKOed in the worst case by Salamence's Draco Meteor, can be 2HKOed by CSpecs Starmie Surf (Stealth Rock means this happens very often), a much less feared special atttacker than Salamence, etc...basically, it gets 2HKOed or better by anything with Choice Specs. This is hardly a replacement for Blissey, something which implies a 100% solution.

If you don't use Blissey, you're going to have ot rely on resistances and Light Screen help for complete walling purposes, not merely a single pokemon. Just like on the physical side of things, I should say.

 

[pokecheez]

I can't believe people are still saying this stuff...

And I can't believe that you think using an extremely OU Pokemon is great. I'm bored of Blissey by now, and Togekiss seems one of the better new Pokes. You gotta be bored of it by now.. -_-

 

[latinoheat]

yet your using gliscor the most OU physical wall this gen and dusknoir.

 

[ADH]

Shit, you even copied my threat list and just made little changes to it. While I can say I'm a bit flattered that somebody is looking at my RMT still, I can't help but be a little aggravated that you didn't try starting from scratch and coming up with a different way to achieve what I did.

The only real change that I could see making to this team would be to make Blissey a Seismic Toss / Ice Beam / Wish / Protect set and perhaps have a sleep absorber, since my team's main weakness is to sleep.

 

[pokecheez]

yet your using gliscor the most OU physical wall this gen and dusknoir.

Wow. The game isn't even out, those 2 Pokes haven't even been used yet (in America anyway), and you're calling them OU.

You can't call something OU if you haven't played the game yet, genius.

 

[ADH]

Wow. The game isn't even out, those 2 Pokes haven't even been used yet (in America anyway), and you're calling them OU.

You can't call something OU if you haven't played the game yet, genius.

Except for the fact that damage calcs CLEARLY show that Gliscor walls stuff like no other and has a fantastic typing that makes him immune to EQ and Thunderbolt, resistant to Close Combat / Megahorn, neutral to rock, and has an ability that makes Stone Edge have shit accuraccy in a sandstorm. You telling me that that's not good enough for OU?

 

[pokecheez]

Shit, you even copied my threat list and just made little changes to it. While I can say I'm a bit flattered that somebody is looking at my RMT still, I can't help but be a little aggravated that you didn't try starting from scratch and coming up with a different way to achieve what I did.

The only real change that I could see making to this team would be to make Blissey a Seismic Toss / Ice Beam / Wish / Protect set and perhaps have a sleep absorber, since my team's main weakness is to sleep.

Like I said in the original post, I was only editing your team to see if it would function without the Blissey and Electivire. I wasn't planning on changing anything else so there would be no point in completely altering the threat list.

Why the hell would you be aggravated if I was just trying to see if I can pull off the team in a different fashion? I'm not saying that I'm stealing this team, I've got my own.. 0_o

 

[pokecheez]

Except for the fact that damage calcs CLEARLY show that Gliscor walls stuff like no other and has a fantastic typing that makes him immune to EQ and Thunderbolt, resistant to Close Combat / Megahorn, neutral to rock, and has an ability that makes Stone Edge have shit accuraccy in a sandstorm. You telling me that that's not good enough for OU?

Now think about what you just said.

Who the hell said that Gliscor isn't good enough for OU? Not me. I said you can't determine if it is or not because yet BECAUSE THE GAME ISN'T OUT and you can't just predict what everyone's gonna use.

Who knows? Maybe the majority of players will think using a Gliscor is too difficult to use and it doesn't become an OU. A lot of OU's are easy to use and have a very comprehensive strategy.

No one can make any accusations until we actually get to check the game out.

It says in the forum rules to not make any accusations and act as if they are fact because nobody knows for sure yet.

 

[ΩDonut]

...and on top of all that, Body Slam + Nasty Plot is illegal for Togekiss because you can't combine Emerald move tutors and DP bred moves.

 

[pokecheez]

...and on top of all that, Body Slam + Nasty Plot is illegal for Togekiss because you can't combine Emerald move tutors and DP bred moves.

Already said I'm editing that and putting in a different move.

Read all of my posts before posting. >_>

 

[ADH]

pokecheez, it would be fine for you to just see how the team works with other Pokemon in some of the spots, but some of your comments in this thread are suspect. Your dislike of Blissey simply because it is everywhere is odd enough, along with how you seem to flame people because they disagree with you or say things that pretty much everybody on the boards agrees with.

I'm fine with you making changes to the team, it's just that in the effort to switch things around you didn't just copy aspects of my team, you copied my threat list too. I worked hard on thinking things out for that threat list and tweaking things accordingly, it's just somewhat aggravating that you copied the list too instead of making one yourself.

Plus, you needn't be so abrasive.

Edit: Drapion isn't weak to most of those types, it's only weak to Ground actually, which is why Drappy's so good.

 

[pokecheez]

pokecheez, it would be fine for you to just see how the team works with other Pokemon in some of the spots, but some of your comments in this thread are suspect. Your dislike of Blissey simply because it is everywhere is odd enough, along with how you seem to flame people because they disagree with you or say things that pretty much everybody on the boards agrees with.

I'm fine with you making changes to the team, it's just that in the effort to switch things around you didn't just copy aspects of my team, you copied my threat list too. I worked hard on thinking things out for that threat list and tweaking things accordingly, it's just somewhat aggravating that you copied the list too instead of making one yourself.

Plus, you needn't be so abrasive.

Edit: Drapion isn't weak to most of those types, it's only weak to Ground actually, which is why Drappy's so good.

Ahhhhhhh whatever. I didn't see a point in changing the threat list, considering most of the team was identical to the way it was before. I wanted to see if it could work without a Blissey, because I consider using a Blissey to be cheap. The guys I'm playing with over Wifi agreed that there would be no uses of legendaries, and a few non legendaries such as Blissey, Wobbuffet, and I think Metagross. We consider OU's to be annoying/cheap, and I thought most people here did too. It makes sense.. So my aim was to bend this team to my will.

I thought it worked, but whatever.

As I said already, my aim was not to "rip-off" your team. I was editing it and trying out a new idea. No need to be so defensive.

I wasn't trying to come off as "abrasive", but it was kind of pissing me off that no one was giving me any real feedback, they were just ragging on it. It seemed like some didn't even read it.

 

[latinoheat]

Now think about what you just said.

Who the hell said that Gliscor isn't good enough for OU? Not me. I said you can't determine if it is or not because yet BECAUSE THE GAME ISN'T OUT and you can't just predict what everyone's gonna use.

Who knows? Maybe the majority of players will think using a Gliscor is too difficult to use and it doesn't become an OU. A lot of OU's are easy to use and have a very comprehensive strategy.

No one can make any accusations until we actually get to check the game out.

It says in the forum rules to not make any accusations and act as if they are fact because nobody knows for sure yet.

if you shut up for a second and stopped trying to find flaws with any comment made against your team,then you would have seen that gliscor has been used on 90% of the teams posted here. The metagame isn't going to change that drastically when its released rhyperior and garchomp are not gonna become UU.


But even if we follow your logic that we cannot tell what is or will be OU till the game is released how can you tell that blissey and metagross will be OU and therefore go against using them because they are in your words cheap OUs.

 

[pokecheez]

if you shut up for a second and stopped trying to find flaws with any comment made against your team,then you would have seen that gliscor has been used on 90% of the teams posted here. The metagame isn't going to change that drastically when its released rhyperior and garchomp are not gonna become UU.


But even if we follow your logic that we cannot tell what is or will be OU till the game is released how can you tell that blissey and metagross will be OU and therefore go against using them because they are in your words cheap OUs.

• Please don't pretend you know what competitive D/P will be all about.. Competitor hasn't been released yet, no one really played online with every option available, so no one knows what the D/P metagame will be like. Speculation is okay - that's what this forum is about for a big part, but please don't act like your opinion is a fact.

Taken straight from a thread floated at the top of this board.

'Nuff said.

But anyway, if no one else is gonna make suggestions, we should just let this thread die. Apparently it isn't allowed edit someone elses team without getting utterly bashed. -_- Oh well.

Next time I'll post my own team instead, I'll see how that turns out.. O_o

 

[bolt]

Pokecheese or whatever the hell your name is; shut up. I don't like how you just sign up and disrespect Jump, latinoheat, ADH, and OmegaDonut with your rude remarks.

Just take it easy.

 

[latinoheat]

I like how you first completly ignore my point and secondly post that despite the fact that you are the one who didn't follow it.

How do you know Blissey will be OU and therfore you will be against using it if D/P is not released,your the one specualting.

Also i really suggest you don't post another team until you learn to accept critisism and stop trying to be a smart arse by trying to find an answer to every bit of advice people post.

 

[Pyr0]

Please don't pretend you know what competitive D/P will be all about.. Competitor hasn't been released yet, no one really played online with every option available, so no one knows what the D/P metagame will be like. Speculation is okay - that's what this forum is about for a big part, but please don't act like your opinion is a fact.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

I belive this is meant for random players that signed up less than a week ago, Users that have been folowing the discussion threads, have actualy a pretty good idea of what the metagame in D/P will be like (altho the idea is not perfect yet) and its not only "educated guesses" its hardcore NUMBERS as seen in the Damage calculations.

So please take your time, lurk around and then post.
Im not saying that originiality is bad (heck i have probopass in one of my teams) but Standards are Standards for a reason.