Other 6th Gen Pokemon OU Candidate Speculation Thread

[Swampertz]

Umm...don't switch in on anything that has Earthquake? Shadow Tag is 100000000000 times better than Levitate on a Pokemon like Mega Gengar. If used correctly, it gets at least two kills per match unless your opponent is running something like Tyranitar/Chansey/Blissey/Assault Vest Specially Defensive Hippowdon/(you get the point)



Goodra wastes an item slot it could be using for passive recovery in Leftovers, forgoes Gooey, which slows down physical attackers, and wastes two moveslots on Rain Dance+Rest. If you use a strong physical attack on it, it will crumble, and Hydration+Rest cannot fix that.



252+ SpA Goodra Dragon Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar in RAIN: 144-171 (42.22 - 50.14%) -- 0.39% chance to 2HKO
Hahahahahahahahahahahaha



Mega Mawile is a viable Pokemon in OU. It has 678 Attack if using an Adamant nature, and it can use Swords Dance, which makes its Attack insane. Also Mega Mawile uses Sucker Punch a lot better than Mega Kangaskhan:

+2 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def (custom): 340-401 (96.31 - 113.59%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def (custom): 289-340 (81.86 - 96.31%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

While I understand what you're saying, you're misinterpreting a few things I was trying to say. First off, I was not trying to 2HKO T-Tar with a Goodra. That's not going to happen. If T-Tar were switched in, with the extra EVs in Defense, it can sometimes take two hits from a T-Tar, allowing it to Hit and Rest. Gooey, as Hrothgar is saying, is a Physically Defensive move on a Specially Defensive pokemon, making it a much less viable ability. While it does take up a lot of space for the healing, it can be an incredibly effective staller and deal out strong, though not murderous hits, on many pokemon it does not have an advantage against simply because of its bulk.

I also wasn't saying Mega Malwile isn't viable, simply that I haven't seen it.

EDIT: A Gooey Set:

Goodra Leftovers
Gooey
252 HP/ 252 Def/ 4 SpD
- Acid Armor
- Dragon Pulse
- Toxic
- Coverage Move

 

[Kairyu_Gen1]

My assault vest goodra has done well competitively, I even managed to take down a sylveon the other day 1v1. But I doubt he'll be seen much in ou cuz there's just better options

 

[EtherDrive]

Goodra's ability requires physical damage on a pokemon noted for its special defense. Assault vest removes its ability to use anything but attack moves on a pokemon that seems tailored for support. Even though it's tailored for support, it has no decent recovery as of yet. And that's kind of my point; every time I try to go somewhere with it, it seems like every other part of it wants to go somewhere else...if that makes any sense at all

what makes it talored to the support role? majority of it's move set is offensive, it's attacking stats are Base 100+, and it's abilities range from One that boosts it's Attack, Sustaining against status, and cutting speed

 

[Swampertz]

what makes it talored to the support role? majority of it's move set is offensive, it's attacking stats are Base 100+, and it's abilities range from One that boosts it's Attack, Sustaining against status, and cutting speed

The issue people have with it mostly as an attacker is the Speed, though you could spread EVs 252 SpA/ 252 Def/SpD/Speed/ 4 Other depending on how you want to spread to bulk it to last. It does have a great offensive movepool, and if you want to go Gooey with Leftovers or Assult Vest, Dragon Pulse, Muddy Water, Ice Bean, Sludge Wave, Flamethrower, and Focus Blast are all very valid moves.

 

[AOPSUser]

While I understand what you're saying, you're misinterpreting a few things I was trying to say. First off, I was not trying to 2HKO T-Tar with a Goodra. That's not going to happen. If T-Tar were switched in, with the extra EVs in Defense, it can sometimes take two hits from a T-Tar, allowing it to Hit and Rest. Gooey, as Hrothgar is saying, is a Physically Defensive move on a Specially Defensive pokemon, making it a much less viable ability. While it does take up a lot of space for the healing, it can be an incredibly effective staller and deal out strong, though not murderous hits, on many pokemon it does not have an advantage against simply because of its bulk.

I also wasn't saying Mega Malwile isn't viable, simply that I haven't seen it.

If by strong you mean something that cannot OHKO Gyarados with Thunder (given the correct EV investment on the former), fails to OHKO 0/0 Dragons (I'm talking FLYGON even), then sure.

Choice Band TTar OHKOes with Stone Edge. With 0 Attack EVs and no boosting item, Tyranitar 2HKOes with Stone Edge WITHOUT Stealth Rock. 32 Attack Tyranitar 2HKOes with Crunch after SR. You are not taking that many physical hits, and even if you spend a couple turns setting up your Rests, your opponent can switch in something like Aegislash, which destroys you. Also:

32 SpA Goodra Thunder vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Aegislash (Blade): 146-172 (45.06 - 53.08%) -- 30.47% chance to 2HKO

And those are 60/60/60 defenses. That's the same as Spinda.

 

[Hrothgar]

Goodra doesn't have a good physical stab; if you want to use outrage this gen, good friggin luck. Also, it's spa is higher. This means it wants to go special, which sap sipper doesn't help.

It also folds to any physical attacker worth its salt, so i personally don't think it wants gooey either (this is debatable though).

All that's left is hydration; combined with that special defense, it makes it seem like it wants to be tanky. That's why it seems tailored for defensive shenanigans IMO...not very good shenanigans, mind you, but shenanigans nonetheless.

 

[Swampertz]

Goodra doesn't have a good physical stab; if you want to use outrage this gen, good friggin luck. Also, it's spa is higher. This means it wants to go special, which sap sipper doesn't help.

It also folds to any physical attacker worth its salt, so i personally don't think it wants gooey either (this is debatable though).

All that's left is hydration; combined with that special defense, it makes it seem like it wants to be tanky. That's why it seems tailored for support.

This is what I've found.

And while having Goodra against a Physical Attacker often ends with a switch, when a special attacker comes it, if Rain is still on it can quickly heal and fight. It's not about quick kills for Goodra, it's about taking down the opponent. It's a staller/tank, not an attacker.

 

[AOPSUser]

This is what I've found.

And while having Goodra against a Physical Attacker often ends with a switch, when a special attacker comes it, if Rain is still on it can quickly heal and fight. It's not about quick kills for Goodra, it's about taking down the opponent. It's a staller/tank, not an attacker.

The turn you are against a special attacker, you get a free Rest. Meanwhile, your opponent gets a free switch to his Choice Scarf Garchomp/Salamence or Choice Band Terrakion or SubPunch Conkeldurr (which is really dangerous to give a free turn to), and they force you out with the threat of an OHKO.

If Rain is not up you are even more screwed.

It works against teams with 6 special attackers. But then again, so do Sylveon, Florges, Chansey, Blissey, Latias, pretty much any bulky Calm Minder, bulky Volcorona, and a bunch of other stuff, all of which have a lot more of an offensive presence than your Goodra spread.

 

[Hrothgar]

I think Goodra's best set is bulky assault vest special attacker, which leaves it with a fairly useless ability in gooey and a lot of competition with a lot of things that easily outclass it. UU is my prediction.

 

[Kairyu_Gen1]

We already have 2 good dragons in rain - Dragonite and Kingdra - which are both better at 1v1 and dealing with switches. Why are we still considering a hydration set?

 

[Dragontamer]

Countering one or two good pokemon does not make a good pokemon. Gastrodon is not an uber superstar. And nothing really counters a pokemon with shadow tag. Who would leave gengar in vs priority brave bird?

And one hard counter doesn't save a pokemon from banning. Absolutely needing a talonflame on every team is just as centralizing as having blaziken on every team.

I stand by my statement; talonflame is overhyped (I never said it was worthless, I said it isn't that good), and once the meta settles, it will drop in usage. Although it isn't nearly as overhyped as greninja.

Swords Dance Talonflame Brave Bird can OHKO 252/0 Forretress (ie: Sp. Def builds) with aid of Stealth Rocks. Thats a KO vs Forretress with a neutral priority attack. The most common check: Tyranitar, is not so reliable. A 0/0 Tyranitar takes 80%+ dmg from Swords Danced U-Turn:

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Pidgeot U-turn vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 294-346 (85.96 - 101.16%) -- 81.25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Adamant Talonflame @ Life Orb
-------------
Swords dance
U-Turn
Brave Bird
Flare Blitz

Talonflame Brave Birds are so fast, that even a Jolly Weavile Ice Shard is slower than it. Talonflame Brave Birds are so powerful, even unboosted, that comparisons to Extreme Killer Arceus are backwards. Its not Talonflame that "hits like Arceus", it is Arceus who hits almost like Talonflame. (Talonflame Brave Birds are 16% stronger than Arceus Life Orb ExtremeSpeed)

Its not uncounterable: Rotom-W is probably the best one. And sure, Talonflame is fragile as all hell, but its a threat, a big one, that all teams must prepare for. Nothing hits quite like a Talonflame.

 

[Animorph]

I worry about Mega Absol's place in OU - I've admittedly had a lot of good matches with it, but I find it may as well be Choiced to Sucker Punch against most mons.

 

[Elecktrochoko]

Aegislash: OU
Greninja: OU
Zygarde: BL
Talonflamme: UU or RU because of SR and its average Attack
Florges: RU or UU
Sylveon: UU or OU
Goodra: UU
Barbaracle: UU
Clawitzer: UU
Dragalge: UU

 

[Groudon ex]

Talonflamme: UU or RU because of SR and its average Attack

Freaking. 120 BP. Priority Move. How is that not enough to make it OU? ._.

With better Rapid Spinners and Defog, SR is easier to remove than ever this generation. It can easily sweep through whole teams after a Swords Dance, of which it more opportunities to setup than you might assume. It's definitely one of the most terrifying threats in OU at the moment, and I don't see it dropping in popularity any time soon.

 

[Elecktrochoko]

Freaking. 120 BP. Priority Move. How is that not enough to make it OU? ._.

With better Rapid Spinners and Defog, SR is easier to remove than ever this generation. It can easily sweep through whole teams after a Swords Dance, of which it more opportunities to setup than you might assume. It's definitely one of the most terrifying threats in OU at the moment, and I don't see it dropping in popularity any time soon.

Well, Tyranitar and Heatran beats this bird! Even with SD, they beat him! Talonflame for UU, seriously!

 

[NotSoClutch]

Well, Tyranitar and Heatran beats this bird! Even with SD, they beat him! Talonflame for UU, seriously!

Who cares? Those are only two mons. Its a late game sweeper and will be OU. It's as good as volcarona if not better. Also, Chesnaught is a big time threat. Maybe it isnt OU material, but I think it deserves a mention as a physical tank that walls most common gengar sets and has the best protectlike move in the game.

 

[Talpr0ne]

Barbaracle: UU

No way how who is claimed to be the best shell smasher in the game and also checks talonflame decently can be UU.

 

[NotSoClutch]

No way how who is claimed to be the best shell smasher in the game and also checks talonflame decently can be UU.

Too be far, as good as barbaracle is, it is generally outclassed by cloyster, so since tiers are based on usage, it couldbe bl or UU.

 

[Groudon ex]

Well, Tyranitar and Heatran beats this bird! Even with SD, they beat him! Talonflame for UU, seriously!

If you don't have a Rock type or physically defensive Rotom-W on your team (Heatran is unreleased at the moment), you're pretty much weak to Talonflame by default. I doubt there's much point trying to argue with you as you're obviously trolling (judging by the fact you haven't made any other posts yet have been registered for over a year).

 

[NotSoClutch]

If you don't have a Rock type or physically defensive Rotom-W on your team (Heatran is unreleased at the moment), you're pretty much weak to Talonflame by default. I doubt there's much point trying to argue with you as you're obviously trolling (judging by the fact you haven't made any other posts yet have been registered for over a year).

Have you tried physically defensive cloyster yet? It sounds strange not using cloyster to shell smash, but it has ridiculous defense and can lay down hazards on a switch threatened by rock blast. It has been great as a check so far. Also, mega ampharos walls talonflame better than anything ifyou have an open mega slot.

 

[Tressed]

Have you tried physically defensive cloyster yet? It sounds strange not using cloyster to shell smash, but it has ridiculous defense and can lay down hazards on a switch threatened by rock blast. It has been great as a check so far. Also, mega ampharos walls talonflame better than anything ifyou have an open mega slot.

Cloyster has a bunch of problems as a physical tank, mainly its low Sp. Defence and weakness to Stealth Rock. Mega-Amphy will get worn out really fast and doesn't bring too much to the table.
Imo Rotom-W is the best check for Talonflame. It won't be able to take repeated hits throughout the entire match if Talonflame is well supported, but if not it'll be able to wear Talonflame out quickly. Once it gets Pain Split back, it'll be a great counter.

 

[NotSoClutch]

Cloyster has a bunch of problems as a physical tank, mainly its low Sp. Defence and weakness to Stealth Rock. Mega-Amphy will get worn out really fast and doesn't bring too much to the table.
Imo Rotom-W is the best check for Talonflame. It won't be able to take repeated hits throughout the entire match if Talonflame is well supported, but if not it'll be able to wear Talonflame out quickly. Once it gets Pain Split back, it'll be a great counter.

While it is true that cloyster has bad special defense, that hasnt stopped skarmory from being used. Not to mention that rotom doesnt have pain split yet. Also mega ampharos works as a very good pivot in my experience and has spectacular bulk to take hits.

 

[fryfrey]

Also I feel like Quagsire got buffed a little. Resists both of Barbaracle's STABS, walls Physical Aegislash, Unaware makes stat boosts null, gets Infestation with the boosts to trapping moves, and Yawn, which when combined with Infestation is a guaranteed Sleep Move. Pretty great Physical Wall with a reliable recovery move.

 

[Maestro72]

Aegislash: OU
Greninja: OU
Talonflamme: UU or RU because of SR and its average Attack

These are the three that stood out the most to me in your post.

I agree Aegislash is OU, but out of curiosity what versions are you talking about? Anything with King's Shield is wasting a moveslot in my experience.

Greninja is . . . questionable. I mean Protean looks good on paper, but its movepool is severely lacking in terms of coverage, and using Ice Beam with him while anyone with Bullet Punch or Mach Punch is still left is asking for trouble.

Now Talonflame: while it's true Stealth Rock hurts it badly, the same could be said about Volcarona. As for the average attack, it also has priority Brave Bird+Utility (Tailwind and Roost) and I believe 126 base, which is great for running Adamant nature and a bit of HP bulk. Besides ... doesn't Dugtrio have 80 Attack itself?

But the reason why Talonflame is so underhyped is, I believe, because most players play him as a Swords Dance Sweeper. Here's a hint: Fire+Flying does not make for good coverage, and U-Turn dropping any dances you've accumulated seems counter-productive. It's probably best for Choice Band or Utility.

 

[Thorhammer]

Talonflame is so good it isn't funny. It's definitely the best new regular Pokemon; I run Tyranitar, Rotom-W, and Sand Rush Excadrill and the bird is still non-trivial to deal with.

I didn't think much of Goodra at first because of its weird stat distribution, but it's really good. It'll lose a lot of its niche when Latios and Latias become available as other bulky specially-based dragons, but it still has better SpD, access to some great moves like Fire Blast, more ability to go mixed due to its Atk, three fancy ability options, and no weakness to U-Turn, Pursuit, Sucker Punch, and Shadow Sneak. It'll dip in usage when they show up for sure, but Goodra is not leaving OU this gen.

Barbaracle is good, but it'll struggle to find a niche over Cloyster, I think. Could end up in either OU or UU depending on how things go.