The irony is that Volcarona is quite good against the HO and offense spam. It falls short against balanced and slower. Hybrid teams sometimes have a hard time based on MU.
chasing the wrong horse
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4 [Volcarona Banned]
- Thread starter TPP
- Start date
chasing the wrong horse
Hate to break it to you, but I think you’re alone in thinking…Glimmora is broken? And Mamoswine counters Volcarona?
Volcarona was supposed by the community for far longer than pretty much anything else right now and, if you look at the suspect thread itself, you’ll realize a lot of people take issue with it. So perhaps instead of riddling off things that just don’t align with reality and blaming authority, take a step back and realize some context.
I'm not saying that glimmora is broken or that mamoswine is a counter to volcarona. The mamoswine scenario is just a specific thing I've experienced once or twice because of my low elo. Also the point of me mentioning that glimmora point was to say that HO as a playstyle is broken because of the lack of counters to so many different offensive threats on the same team. Im sorry if i didn't make that clear and i probably shouldn't have mentioned the mamoswine part but that's just my opinion anyway :/
I do not think HO is broken. I actually think balance has gotten a lot better and most archetypes are pretty solid right now, which was not the case for months prior. There are still issues in the metagame, but I do not think any one style dominates.
I completely agree with you that if the community believe volcarona is overpowered, it deserves to be tested and if it is too overpowered, it should be banned, so it is insensitive for me to just use my own experiences as a basis of judgement for how broken a pokemon is.
Also i have a question: why are the pokemon gholdengo, kingambit and walking wake all banned in ndex ou? I can maybe understand walking wake if its too overpowered under the sun, but if they were deemed too powerful in ndex, what's different in sv that allows them to stay? I'm not trying to insinuate anything from asking this its a genuine question btw.
I do not know enough about National Dex to give you firm answers; a big thing is that less is not always more -- a bigger dex can sometimes makes things scarier. However, there's also the added moves things like Kingambit get -- take Pursuit or Knock Off, which I would guess it gets.
I think in SV OU Gholdengo has settled down a lot. It is at a low point and got very little support in our recent surveys, for example. Kingambit remains an absolute menace, especially with Tera, and atop of mind though. It is one of the best Pokemon in the tier and for good reason.
Glimmora is the least banworthy pokemon that I want excised from this tier. It's not banworthy in the least but god it's so annyoing. It's not broken tho, just really fucking annoying
gambit has access to knock off in nat dex, a move much better at forcing progress than kw, and for Gholdengo, it's ability to stop defog is way more relevant since Nat Dex has way more viable defoggers unlike in SV. Gholdengo would be way worse to deal with in nat dex because of this, therefore it was decided to be banned.
Dragapult was also banned right after Kingambit because of Z-moves. Without Pult and Gambit in the tier Gholdengo is much stronger in addition to your point about blocking defog.
I can't speak for anyone else, but I have to say that I added Glimmora to a lot of my teams just because it was often a bit easier to deal with Gouging Fire and a little bit Volcarona that way. But mostly Gouging Fire. Of course, I used it before that decision and Glimm was useful regardless. It's just that I wound up putting it on more teams than usual as an adaptation to the meta.
It's really ironic that having more Defog mons actually made Gholdengo worse in Nat Dex. I remember so many ban Ghold arguments for OU that talked about the lack of defoggers and how problematic Ghold allegedly made that.
On a new note, what are some cool defensive/ offensive cores you guys have found recent success with on your teams?
Defog users are a lot more prominent in Natdex, and thus Gholdengo was seem as more unhealthy for the tier. Furthermore, the Natdex playerbase is just different from OU, and they were a lot less willing to deal with Gholdengo's shenanigans.
Meanwhile, Kingambit having access to Knock Off and Pursuit were massive buffs to it, allowing Kingambit to cripple checks that rely on Boots/other items to beat it like Dondozo, while also threatening a lot more of the tier due to Pursuit giving it reliable option to kill mons that it threatens, unlike OU where they can just switch out.
Corv + Ace is a fun alternative for dealing with hazards. You don't lose much of anything by using them since they are both good mons. The cool thing about this combo is Defog actually makes Court Change more effective after the first time. You can use this with teammates that are vulnerable to hazards without having to spam HBD.
Indeedee + Polteageist + Rillaboom is the only way I have been able to make a somewhat good Psychic Terrain team. I have explained this in a former post, but Rillaboom gives the priority that was sorely lacking on these kinds of teams. Polteageist is the best Psychic Terrain abuser period. I'm still playing around with the rest.
tbh it was more one insane dude spamming for it to happen
With all these small niches Chesnaught has on fat, imagine how good it would be if it had the Grass/Steel typing? Because when you think about it, Chesnaught is a pretty fundamentally sound pokemon apart from its typing which holds it back. Having a secondary fighting type is such a burden for it. But being a fundamentally sound pokemon held back by typing it explains why it flip flops between tiers sometimes
Chesnaught @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Bulletproof
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Spikes
- Synthesis
- Drain Punch
- Knock Off
I know I said I wasn't going to get the requirements, but I hadn't played since the suspicious Gouging Fire and I went to feel the metagame, and it got worse.
Although I was interested in Chesnaught.
Looking for a Grass type that offered some resistance against Waterpon in addition to other uses.
He has Spikes and Knock Off, catching some unsuspecting mon and helping progress. Although the original idea was for Waterpon, between SD + Play Rough or Encore you just exchange HP with Drain Punch and if you choose Play Rough you can use Tera Grass to remove the weakness to Fairy and maintain the Water and Grass resistances. Ultimately not a solid answer, although I found it to be a good use against Crawdaunt and Hamurott. An alternate Spikes and a secondary Knock Off was good. Bulletproof catches some unsuspecting Shadow and Pyro Ball, in addition to being naturally faster than Kingambit without investment and having recovery in Synthesis.
Quick comments about teammates.
Tera Steel (it could be Dark, but I prefer Steel as it maintains immunity to Poisoned) for Stored Power and especially CM + Psyshock Gholdengo and Valiant that caught me by surprise three times on the ladder.
Tera Ghost for anti-spinner, used in 80% of battles.
18 IV Speed is slower, so it acts first under Trick Room against Ursaluna Brave Speed minimum. Mono Body Press for Waterpon. We have other Pokémon on the team to deal with Ghost-types.
Idk about something new or different.
52 EVs SpDef survives Drapapult's Draco Meteor Specs. Tera Dark + Protect for Future Sight.
Some automatic loses to Hoopa Unbound and Gouging Fire CB in the sun. And at the end of day Waterpon it is still a problem.
Also Ausma told me Lugia was tested in a private room and it was busted, so don't ask to drop it unless we end up banning tera down the line which isn't happening anytime soon if it ever happens.
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MEGA CHESTNUT WITH GRASS+STELL TYPING HYPEEEE LETS GO!!!!
also yeah wtf is this thread on, how dry is the content for anyone to even contemplate Lugia in OU
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If you look over the history of this thread there is a lot of people for a Lugia drop, not just that one guy.
Honestly though as I said though Lugia was busted in the room test so we should probably not talk about dropping unless tera goes in the distant future, since at least then it would be a little more reasonable to test with it being shackled to psychic flying
Yeah, could you imagine how massive a Defensive Grass/Steel Pokemon would be? How many teams it'd fit on with stuff like Spikes, Leech Seed Recovery, Knock Off, and still using ID Body Press?
It even would keep Toxic since it's an Egg Move, Gen 9 somehow made me miss this thing.
This might be a bit too broken, I propose that for the hypothetical Chesnaught buff we take away Synthesis and maybe give it some better physical Grass STAB, like Power Whip.
For Wake, it was Sun being a lot stronger iirc, and also to an extent Z-moves.
For Gambit, Knock+Pursuit Gambit is kinda good if you couldn't tell.
For Ghold, all its checks and counters got removed was the reason iirc.
Also, the ND council is more willing to ban stuff in general, so that leads to more bans.
I love the reactions of people who realize there absolutely doomed against GF.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2104041724
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2104041724
i think this guy hates glimmora y'all (not broken tho)
With the rise of Landorus-T, I have some delicious low-ELO heat for anybody interested in trolling around.
Maushold
Tera Ice
Wide Lens
Population Bomb
Encore
Tidy Up
Tera Blast
You are completely stonewalled by Gholdengo, but in exchange you get this lovely calc:
252 Atk Tera Ice Maushold Tera Blast (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 220+ Def Landorus-Therian: 292-348 (76.4 - 91%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
I haven't found any teammates that especially love Lando-T being removed and synergize well, but Maushold itself can go hard with Population Bomb once the risk of suiciding into a Rocky Helmet is removed. I'm not saying this is good - it's certainly inferior to Ghost or Dark - but it's funny and preys on metagame trends.
Maushold
Tera Ice
Wide Lens
Population Bomb
Encore
Tidy Up
Tera Blast
You are completely stonewalled by Gholdengo, but in exchange you get this lovely calc:
252 Atk Tera Ice Maushold Tera Blast (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 220+ Def Landorus-Therian: 292-348 (76.4 - 91%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
I haven't found any teammates that especially love Lando-T being removed and synergize well, but Maushold itself can go hard with Population Bomb once the risk of suiciding into a Rocky Helmet is removed. I'm not saying this is good - it's certainly inferior to Ghost or Dark - but it's funny and preys on metagame trends.
this is a level of cooking i am absolutely invested in, absolutely going to whip this beautiful darkness later into a team