Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4 [Volcarona Banned]

kanto ninetails
It's Ninetales.

Also, I do feel like Torkoal vs Ninetales is a bit slightly underrated for Ninetales, but overall the hazard removal and bulk matters. Seeing a Torkoal live an EQ easily, switch out and come back in to set up sun another day is always funny.
 

Finchinator

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In my opinion, this metagame is ok, but can still use a lot of work. I’m really hoping Kyurem goes; it’s a restrictive presence and a team builder’s nightmare. More on this in the suspect thread of course. From there, a deeper look into Rain, specifically Archaludon, seems appropriate. People have also been mentioning Roaring Moon and Gouging Fire — I resonate with these sentiments, too, although I don’t find either to be more pressing than the first things I mentioned.

I am excited because we have all generation left to find the best OU, but I also think that we need to be mindful of current metagame issues.
 
In my opinion, this metagame is ok, but can still use a lot of work. I’m really hoping Kyurem goes; it’s a restrictive presence and a team builder’s nightmare. More on this in the suspect thread of course. From there, a deeper look into Rain, specifically Archaludon, seems appropriate. People have also been mentioning Roaring Moon and Gouging Fire — I resonate with these sentiments, too, although I don’t find either to be more pressing than the first things I mentioned.

I am excited because we have all generation left to find the best OU, but I also think that we need to be mindful of current metagame issues.
I want to add onto this and bold this ending part of Finch's statement in particular because this metagame has been the most fun I've consistently had in an OU metagame since the Gen 5 OU weather wars (my personal favorite meta), and I feel very strongly about Gen 9 OU's positive qualities compared to several previous OU metagames. There is so much room for flexibility in team building and strategy thanks to Tera, a wide set of new mons/moves, and (I know this will be semi-controversial) this generation's power creep which I feel is beneficial to OU as a whole. So focusing on any mons or playstyles that stifle this generation's team-building creativity and flexibility is where the focus should go, and I feel we're going in the right direction so far. This is a meta where almost any Pokemon can find a niche while still having clear OU staples and I wholly believe that's fantastic!

As for :kyurem:, personally, I still feel that Roaring Moon is a more pressing matter over Kyurem, Gouging Fire, and (especially) Archaludon, but I recognize that Kyurem puts a lot of pressure on team building due to its strong offenses, bulk, and set variety so I wouldn't be upset to see it go or stay either way (I feel that I'd lean more towards banning Kyurem if our meta wasn't so hazard-oriented). To me, I've had the most consistent results with Kyurem's Choice Specs set - I generally partner Specs Kyurem with Great Tusk, Furret, and Glowking as those three together give Kyurem plenty of switch-in opportunities while keeping hazards off the field + scouting items/crippling would-be checks/counters while boosting Kyurem's physical defense thanks to Chilly Reception. I'm personally not the biggest fan of Kyurem's Dragon Dance sets (I originally thought they'd be broken in the past due to feeling like a mini-Baxcalibur, but they lack Bax's immediate power + burn immunity). What I've generally noticed though is that if you control the momentum flow in your battle, Kyurem will generally be your wincon.
 
I think kanto ninetails actually does have a niche on sun teams as an alternative sun setter to torkoal. Torkoal has an incredible utility movepool but ninetails has just enough to get you some early momentum. Healing Wish + Scorching Sands + Weather Ball + Roar is definitely worth considering if you like a much faster pace than torkoal provides. There's also nothing stopping you from just using both if you want a fast start but also want some mid game backbone if it comes down to that.
This is how I used them in fact. Ninetales needs Boots to work, Torkoal was the main setter. Having 2 setters really helps to win the weather wars (currently mostly vs Rain, in 44 games I saw 0 Snow excluding Glowking and Sand, which is funny, since those 2 are better vs Kyurem, who demolishes Rain most of the time).
 
This is how I used them in fact. Ninetales needs Boots to work, Torkoal was the main setter. Having 2 setters really helps to win the weather wars (currently mostly vs Rain, in 44 games I saw 0 Snow excluding Glowking and Sand, which is funny, since those 2 are better vs Kyurem, who demolishes Rain most of the time).
I find that a-ninetales (You happy that I spelt it right ant4456?) is pretty great into rain, as it can not only switch the weather, but it can also threaten a lot of rain staples.
 

Ehmcee

A Spoopy Ghost
is a Tiering Contributor
anyone tried non-weather field effects like electric terrain and the rooms? Any ideas on what is good or not?
Gterrain teams are still fairly strong, Rillaboom + Hawlucha's been quite popular in the Tournament scene, as well as plopping a grassy seed on CM sweepers like Hatterene, Latias and Primarina (and Comfey one time :O).

I still think Psychic Terrain has somewhat of a niche, Deo-S loves abusing it both to not get hit by priority, as well as boosting Expanding Force, I've seen Iron Crown slot in quite well on those structures as well.

The other terrains aren't quite worth looking into in my opinion, Electric Terrain just can't rely on having to use Pincurchin, while Misty Terrain just doesn't really do anything of note.
 
anyone tried non-weather field effects like electric terrain and the rooms? Any ideas on what is good or not?
DO NOT USE ELECTRIC TERRAIN. I have tried it, and it was horrible. Grassy Terrain is still great, as hawlucha is a great mon with other threats like latias that use grassy seed. Psychic terrain has iron crown and deoxys speed to abuse expanding force, though it can struggle a lot with barraskweda on rain. Misty terrain sadly while it could be good, doesn't have much benefits to it as while status immunity and halfed dragon damage is great, there isn't enough reasons outside that to use it, misty explosion ain't cutting it chief.
Trick room i've seen a bit on hatterene as a standalone move, though full trick room teams struggle due to the time restraints. As for magic room and wonder room, uhhh, good luck?
If I had to rank them then it would look like this
1. Grassy Terrain
2. Psychic Terrain




11. Electric Terrain
12. Misty Terrain
13. Trick Room
14. Wonder Room
15. Magic Room
 

KamenOH

formerly DynamaxBestMeta
DO NOT USE ELECTRIC TERRAIN. I have tried it, and it was horrible. Grassy Terrain is still great, as hawlucha is a great mon with other threats like latias that use grassy seed. Psychic terrain has iron crown and deoxys speed to abuse expanding force, though it can struggle a lot with barraskweda on rain. Misty terrain sadly while it could be good, doesn't have much benefits to it as while status immunity and halfed dragon damage is great, there isn't enough reasons outside that to use it, misty explosion ain't cutting it chief.
Trick room i've seen a bit on hatterene as a standalone move, though full trick room teams struggle due to the time restraints. As for magic room and wonder room, uhhh, good luck?
If I had to rank them then it would look like this
1. Grassy Terrain
2. Psychic Terrain




11. Electric Terrain
12. Misty Terrain
13. Trick Room
14. Wonder Room
15. Magic Room
If it weren't for the fact that the highest ranked Magic Room user is Azelf in RU, and also it having only five fully evolved users, it would have a neat gimmick on hazard stack teams, disabling the opponent's HDB every so often. Of course, your own item would also be useless for that duration, so maybe it's a good thing people haven't tried it yet.
 
Morkal OU Sun
:heat rock:
So we've been talking a lot about Rain lately, but what about Sun? I want to quickly share some of the unique/strong picks that I've been working with on various OU Sun teams. Some of these mons are meta staples while others are Pokemon that I feel should be looked at more due to their nice qualities. I'm going to start with my favorite sun mon as of right now -

:meganium:
Meganium @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Leaf Guard
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 248 HP / 168 Def / 84 SpD / 8 Spe
Impish Nature
- Body Press
- Encore
- Knock Off
- Synthesis​

Meganium has been one of my favorite discoveries on Sun teams thanks to its great bulk, the newfound ability to terastallize, a surprisingly good base 80 speed for a bulky mon, a great ability for Sun, reliable recovery, and a stupendous movepool. Leaf Guard protects it against status while Synthesis is phenomenal in the sun - allowing it to shrug off attacks and attempts at status that other Pokemon can't begin to deal with. Meganium provides excellent utility and even some offensive pressure thanks to access to the combination of Body Press + Knock Off along with Encore to royally mess over slower setup mons such as Raging Bolt and Kingambit. Meganium is another Gen 2 mon that finally has a chance to shine thanks to its access to a plethora of unique and synergistic tools that other Pokemon could only dream of. I'll likely be posting the full Sun team I'm using Meganium on in RMT at some point soon (along with writing a full Meganium essay), so keep a lookout for that and also check in there as well for a plethora of other wonderfully constructed teams!

Meganium 1.png

:necrozma:
Necrozma @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Prism Armor
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
- Calm Mind
- Heat Wave
- Photon Geyser
- Morning Sun​

Beats Calm Mind Agility Stored Power Iron Crown one-on-one, cooks Kingambit under Sun while comfortably surviving Supreme Overlord 5 Allies Fainted Sucker Punch on Bulky variants both pre and post-tera. Boost with Calm Mind, fantastic recovery (especially under Sun) with Morning Sun, solid natural bulk combined with an incredible ability in Prism Armor, and more. Necrozma is pretty underexplored as its movepool is a bit mind-boggling with how many different roles it can take on. Solid bulky offensive mon that pairs well with numerous other threats under Sun (especially staples like Great Tusk).

:gouging fire:
Gouging Fire @ Choice Band
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Earthquake
- Outrage
- Psychic Fangs

I discovered somewhat early on that I'm not the biggest fan of Gouging Fire requiring setup, so I decided to instead run either bulk (Morning Sun with Burning Bulwark) or outright power. So I discovered Choice Band Gouging Fire under Sun and let me tell you, it's one of my new favorite sun threats. STAB Flare Blitz boosted by Sun, Choice Band, and Protosynthesis will cook almost anything. Outrage is also great with the lack of consistent Fairy-types around (Clefable does not want to switch into Flare Blitz), and Earthquake is phenomenal coverage. My preferred niche tech on this set is Psychic Fangs for two specific reasons - breaking screens and hitting Pokemon like Great Tusk, Toxapex, Pecharunt, and Zamazenta super effectively (especially if Sun is not up).

:houndoom:
Houndoom @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Flash Fire
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Overheat/Fire Blast
- Dark Pulse
- Tera Blast
- Destiny Bond

Houndoom has a very unique spot in the metagame thanks to four traits that no other Pokemon have; it's the only (legal :chi yu:) Dark/Fire-type Special Attacker allowed in OU, it has acceptable special bulk with an acceptable speed tier (75/80 special bulk with 95 speed), has Flash Fire to give it additional switch-in opportunities while powering up its Fire STAB, and with Tera it can patch up its specific coverage issues and muscle through some annoying threats while gaining a useful Dragon-immunity. The last option on this set is what makes Houndoom such an effective cleaner and also an effective sacrificial mon - Destiny Bond. With Timid + Choice Scarf, Houndoom reaches 475 Speed - this outspeeds +1 Jolly Gouging Fire and ties with +1 Jolly DD Kyurem along with outpacing many other threats like Scarf Modest Enamorus, Scarf Gholdengo (also resists both of Dhengo's STABS). If Houndoom is down for the count and you need a last-ditch effort to take down a +1 sweeper, Houndoom can outpace a huge number of threats, use Destiny Bond, and take down an opposing threat with it. Houndoom's fire STAB is nuclear under the Sun and having Dark STAB isn't bad either and allows Houndoom to threaten Pokemon like Dragapult, Pecharunt, Skeledirge, and Glowking. Houndoom's niche comes from its powerful STABS, speed control with Scarf, access to Tera, and effective revenge killing both from its attacking power + ability to take any mon down provided it can outspeed it.
 
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DO NOT USE ELECTRIC TERRAIN. I have tried it, and it was horrible. Grassy Terrain is still great, as hawlucha is a great mon with other threats like latias that use grassy seed. Psychic terrain has iron crown and deoxys speed to abuse expanding force, though it can struggle a lot with barraskweda on rain. Misty terrain sadly while it could be good, doesn't have much benefits to it as while status immunity and halfed dragon damage is great, there isn't enough reasons outside that to use it, misty explosion ain't cutting it chief.
Trick room i've seen a bit on hatterene as a standalone move, though full trick room teams struggle due to the time restraints. As for magic room and wonder room, uhhh, good luck?
If I had to rank them then it would look like this
1. Grassy Terrain
2. Psychic Terrain




11. Electric Terrain
12. Misty Terrain
13. Trick Room
14. Wonder Room
15. Magic Room
Pincurchin really needs an evolution or some stat buffs. It has no HP, 95 less BST than Rillaboom and lowest BST of the fully evolved terrain setters, and doesn’t have proper moves like Rising Voltage or Volt Switch.
 
Morkal Sun
:heat rock:
So we've been talking a lot about Rain lately, but what about Sun? I want to quickly share some of the unique/strong picks that I've been working with on various OU Sun teams. Some of these mons are meta staples while others are Pokemon that I feel should be looked at more due to their nice qualities. I'm going to start with my favorite sun mon as of right now -

:meganium:
Meganium @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Leaf Guard
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 248 HP / 168 Def / 84 SpD / 8 Spe
Impish Nature
- Body Press
- Encore
- Knock Off
- Synthesis​

Meganium has been one of my favorite discoveries on Sun teams thanks to its great bulk, the newfound ability to terastallize, a surprisingly good base 80 speed for a bulky mon, a great ability for Sun, reliable recovery, and a stupendous movepool. Leaf Guard protects it against status while Synthesis is phenomenal in the sun - allowing it to shrug off attacks and attempts at status that other Pokemon can't begin to deal with. Meganium provides excellent utility and even some offensive pressure thanks to access to the combination of Body Press + Knock Off along with Encore to royally mess over slower setup mons such as Raging Bolt and Kingambit. Meganium is another Gen 2 mon that finally has a chance to shine thanks to its access to a plethora of unique and synergistic tools that other Pokemon could only dream of. I'll likely be posting the full Sun team I'm using Meganium on in RMT at some point soon, so keep a look out for that and also check in there as well for a plethora of other wonderfully constructed teams!


:necrozma:
Necrozma @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Prism Armor
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
- Calm Mind
- Heat Wave
- Photon Geyser
- Morning Sun​

Beats Calm Mind Agility Stored Power Iron Crown one-on-one, cooks Kingambit under Sun while comfortably surviving Supreme Overlord 5 Allies Fainted Sucker Punch on Bulky variants both pre and post-tera. Boost with Calm Mind, fantastic recovery (especially under Sun) with Morning Sun, solid natural bulk combined with an incredible ability in Prism Armor, and more. Necrozma is pretty underexplored as its movepool is a bit mind-boggling with how many different roles it can take on. Solid bulky offensive mon that pairs well with numerous other threats under Sun (especially staples like Great Tusk).

:gouging fire:
Gouging Fire @ Choice Band
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Earthquake
- Outrage
- Psychic Fangs

I discovered somewhat early on that I'm not the biggest fan of Gouging Fire requiring setup, so I decided to instead run either bulk (Morning Sun with Burning Bulwark) or outright power. So I discovered Choice Band Gouging Fire under Sun and let me tell you, it's one of my new favorite sun threats. STAB Flare Blitz boosted by Sun, Choice Band, and Protosynthesis will cook almost anything. Outrage is also great with the lack of consistent Fairy-types around (Clefable does not want to switch into Flare Blitz), and Earthquake is phenomenal coverage. My preferred niche tech on this set is Psychic Fangs for two specific reasons - breaking screens and hitting Pokemon like Great Tusk, Toxapex, Pecharunt, and Zamazenta super effectively (especially if Sun is not up).

:houndoom:
Houndoom @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Flash Fire
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Overheat/Fire Blast
- Dark Pulse
- Tera Blast
- Destiny Bond

Houndoom has a very unique spot in the metagame thanks to four traits that no other Pokemon have; it's the only (legal :chi yu:) Dark/Fire-type Special Attacker allowed in OU, it has acceptable special bulk with an acceptable speed tier (75/80 special bulk with 95 speed), has Flash Fire to give it additional switch-in opportunities while powering up its Fire STAB, and with Tera it can patch up its specific coverage issues and muscle through some annoying threats while gaining a useful Dragon-immunity. The last option on this set is what makes Houndoom such an effective cleaner and also an effective sacrificial mon - Destiny Bond. With Timid + Choice Scarf, Houndoom reaches 475 Speed - this outspeeds +1 Jolly Gouging Fire and ties with +1 Jolly DD Kyurem along with outpacing many other threats like Scarf Modest Enamorus, Scarf Gholdengo (also resists both of Dhengo's STABS). If Houndoom is down for the count and you need a last-ditch effort to take down a +1 sweeper, Houndoom can outpace a huge number of threats, use Destiny Bond, and take down an opposing threat with it. Houndoom's fire STAB is nuclear under the Sun and having Dark STAB isn't bad either and allows Houndoom to threaten Pokemon like Dragapult, Pecharunt, Skeledirge, and Glowking. Houndoom's niche comes from its powerful STABS, speed control with Scarf, access to Tera, and effective revenge killing both from its attacking power + ability to take any mon down provided it can outspeed it.
Imagine if leaf guard worked like hydration, it would add a lot more diversity to sun teams with more defensive playstyles. Also, I see we have another low tier encore grass type. :quagchamppogsire:Using encore feels so good into many different threats, so I'm glad to see it on the meganium set.
 
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2045610624
My god, keldeo is powerful. Ohko'ing an alomomola with a water move is insane. Like, I know it was +2 in rain, but geez, that was a resisted hit.
The rain community when i show them footage of gouging fire casually switching into to bulky resists and doing heavy damage to them without cringe beta male setup turns
IMG_2139.jpeg


But all good things come at a cost, banded gouging fire is vulnerable to rocks and revenge killing so its not exactly light work free elo
 
I still think Psychic Terrain has somewhat of a niche, Deo-S loves abusing it both to not get hit by priority, as well as boosting Expanding Force, I've seen Iron Crown slot in quite well on those structures as well.

One of the weaknesses of the Sun team I used to get Suspect reqs was the fact that it has no Psychic resist. Normally it didn,t matter, offensive Pressure and my Mons being able to outspeed all the usual Psychics made me got away with that weakness.
However, a chef appeared at some point. He cooked a Indeedee + SPECS EXPANDING FORCE SCREAM TAIL that boosted the Speed in the Sun I gave to him. Needless to say, I was wrecked by that, even 0/0 Scream Tail lives a LO Solar Blade from Lilligant, my other Mons weren,t able to even move vs that thing.

Morkal OU Sun
:heat rock:
So we've been talking a lot about Rain lately, but what about Sun? I want to quickly share some of the unique/strong picks that I've been working with on various OU Sun teams. Some of these mons are meta staples while others are Pokemon that I feel should be looked at more due to their nice qualities. I'm going to start with my favorite sun mon as of right now -

:meganium:
Meganium @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Leaf Guard
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 248 HP / 168 Def / 84 SpD / 8 Spe
Impish Nature
- Body Press
- Encore
- Knock Off
- Synthesis​

Meganium has been one of my favorite discoveries on Sun teams thanks to its great bulk, the newfound ability to terastallize, a surprisingly good base 80 speed for a bulky mon, a great ability for Sun, reliable recovery, and a stupendous movepool. Leaf Guard protects it against status while Synthesis is phenomenal in the sun - allowing it to shrug off attacks and attempts at status that other Pokemon can't begin to deal with. Meganium provides excellent utility and even some offensive pressure thanks to access to the combination of Body Press + Knock Off along with Encore to royally mess over slower setup mons such as Raging Bolt and Kingambit. Meganium is another Gen 2 mon that finally has a chance to shine thanks to its access to a plethora of unique and synergistic tools that other Pokemon could only dream of. I'll likely be posting the full Sun team I'm using Meganium on in RMT at some point soon (along with writing a full Meganium essay), so keep a lookout for that and also check in there as well for a plethora of other wonderfully constructed teams!



:houndoom:
Houndoom @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Flash Fire
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Overheat/Fire Blast
- Dark Pulse
- Tera Blast
- Destiny Bond

Houndoom has a very unique spot in the metagame thanks to four traits that no other Pokemon have; it's the only (legal :chi yu:) Dark/Fire-type Special Attacker allowed in OU, it has acceptable special bulk with an acceptable speed tier (75/80 special bulk with 95 speed), has Flash Fire to give it additional switch-in opportunities while powering up its Fire STAB, and with Tera it can patch up its specific coverage issues and muscle through some annoying threats while gaining a useful Dragon-immunity. The last option on this set is what makes Houndoom such an effective cleaner and also an effective sacrificial mon - Destiny Bond. With Timid + Choice Scarf, Houndoom reaches 475 Speed - this outspeeds +1 Jolly Gouging Fire and ties with +1 Jolly DD Kyurem along with outpacing many other threats like Scarf Modest Enamorus, Scarf Gholdengo (also resists both of Dhengo's STABS). If Houndoom is down for the count and you need a last-ditch effort to take down a +1 sweeper, Houndoom can outpace a huge number of threats, use Destiny Bond, and take down an opposing threat with it. Houndoom's fire STAB is nuclear under the Sun and having Dark STAB isn't bad either and allows Houndoom to threaten Pokemon like Dragapult, Pecharunt, Skeledirge, and Glowking. Houndoom's niche comes from its powerful STABS, speed control with Scarf, access to Tera, and effective revenge killing both from its attacking power + ability to take any mon down provided it can outspeed it.

Nice to see the best Starter being good. I also tried to use it but failed (without Sun).

Regarding Houndoom, I used the exact same set in Ubers many month ago (before Home, when only Miraidon and Koraidon were Box Legends) it was funny to see it checking opposing Chi Yu (who also was on the same Houndoom team), OHKOing non Scarf opposing Koraidon (who also was chilling with Doom and Chi Yu) and killing some other Uber with Dbond. Cool Mon, and in OU it checks Gholdengo too.
 
The rain community when i show them footage of gouging fire casually switching into to bulky resists and doing heavy damage to them without cringe beta male setup turns
View attachment 597524

But all good things come at a cost, banded gouging fire is vulnerable to rocks and revenge killing so its not exactly light work free elo
I feel that band gouging fire, while great, does have issue. It has to give up timid to go adamant to 2 hit ko dondozo, which is a big deal against non stall teams because it then is outsped by tusk, which is what is so great about its speed tier. I've even tried it on a sun team and it kinda felt meh, it even has to take heavy recoil from flare blitz, so it doesn't live that long. With wish support or the right teamates to take advantage of the holes it creates, it probably is better than when I tested it, but damage numbers ain't everything.
 
I decided to try out Delphox but it just does not have the bulk or power. That isn't to say it's the worst thing ever, but it kinda has to Tera to get an extra turn to pick up kills. It was on average making major dents at +2 to the Balance teams I fought, as expected, and it does have nice offensive pressure. But even just a random Slowking Sludge is gonna do almost half, meaning that if they have any revenge killer you will never get into another position to get a kill, really. Not saying I'm surprised for the record, just wanted to check it out because it's a cool design anyways.

If I was to buff Delphox I'd probably just give it more HP or Special Attack, it either needs more reward for getting a setup turn or to be easier to setup and live to tell the tale. Or, its lower tier stuff is chill too!
 
I decided to try out Delphox but it just does not have the bulk or power. That isn't to say it's the worst thing ever, but it kinda has to Tera to get an extra turn to pick up kills. It was on average making major dents at +2 to the Balance teams I fought, as expected, and it does have nice offensive pressure. But even just a random Slowking Sludge is gonna do almost half, meaning that if they have any revenge killer you will never get into another position to get a kill, really. Not saying I'm surprised for the record, just wanted to check it out because it's a cool design anyways.

If I was to buff Delphox I'd probably just give it more HP or Special Attack, it either needs more reward for getting a setup turn or to be easier to setup and live to tell the tale. Or, its lower tier stuff is chill too!
Try wish delphox, it has suprising special bulk and can get you out of some tough spots.
But yeah, delphox kinda just lacks either speed, power or bulk. It's like golurk. They are so close to being top tier, or at the very least great in OU, but they just lack something to make them compete in top tier.
 
Another note: Raging Bolt with Specs is fucking insane. I also think more Specs sets would go crazy, I made some calcs and tried it out. Just pair it with a Knock Off mon and soon enough there is zero switch ins.

You don't even need coverage. I tried Tbolt / Clap / Draco / Pulse and it literally went insane-o.

252+ SpA Choice Specs Raging Bolt Draco Meteor vs. 244 HP / 252 SpD Gliscor: 345-406 (98 - 115.3%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

Like, nothing will stop you. If you can get the turns right, you are getting kills.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Raging Bolt Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable: 274-324 (69.5 - 82.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Raging Bolt Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gholdengo: 271-321 (86 - 101.9%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Raging Bolt Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gholdengo: 271-321 (86 - 101.9%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Raging Bolt Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Hatterene: 246-291 (77.3 - 91.5%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Raging Bolt Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 240+ SpD Slowking-Galar: 171-202 (43.4 - 51.2%) -- 6.6% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Raging Bolt Dragon Pulse vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Slowking: 160-190 (40.7 - 48.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Raging Bolt Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 240+ SpD Slowking-Galar: 247-292 (62.6 - 74.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Raging Bolt Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kingambit: 288-340 (84.4 - 99.7%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Raging Bolt Dragon Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Landorus-Therian: 319-376 (100 - 117.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Raging Bolt Dragon Pulse vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-Therian: 288-339 (75.3 - 88.7%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Raging Bolt Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-Therian: 438-516 (114.6 - 135%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Raging Bolt Dragon Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Rillaboom: 319-376 (93.5 - 110.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Raging Bolt Dragon Pulse vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Vessel of Ruin Ting-Lu: 148-175 (28.7 - 34%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Raging Bolt Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Vessel of Ruin Ting-Lu: 228-268 (44.3 - 52.1%) -- 17.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Raging Bolt Draco Meteor vs. 200 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Archaludon: 345-406 (92.9 - 109.4%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Ting Lu and Slowking Galar are the best answers as expected, but it doesn't take much for two Dragon Pulses + a bit of chip to bring down Slowking. Ting Lu has to be a longer game problem, but chances are, it's their only switch in! So you know to press Draco and chip it, and pressure it out of recovering with Lefties.
 
I'm glad people are having fun in the DLC2 Metagame, but man it's just not vibbing with me. I don't really care for the new mons, and no matter what kinda team I play I'm just not having fun. Idk if I'm burnt out, or just enjoying other game atm but I do want to enjoy SV OU. Any team/Pokemon suggestions?
 
I'm glad people are having fun in the DLC2 Metagame, but man it's just not vibbing with me. I don't really care for the new mons, and no matter what kinda team I play I'm just not having fun. Idk if I'm burnt out, or just enjoying other game atm but I do want to enjoy SV OU. Any team/Pokemon suggestions?
Rain is definetely fun right now for me, probs due to the sheer power of it. I would say use lower tier mons and experiment with them, as that has been where I have found more fun. Even just UU mons can be interesting.
If you're burnt out though, that's fine. Just take a break and come back when you are ready. I've had moments when I don't play for just a few days because I feel kinda burnt out, and coming back I feel better.
 
In my opinion, this metagame is ok, but can still use a lot of work. I’m really hoping Kyurem goes; it’s a restrictive presence and a team builder’s nightmare. More on this in the suspect thread of course. From there, a deeper look into Rain, specifically Archaludon, seems appropriate.
People are having issues with rain? Really?

Archaludon is dumb as heck. Definitely a miserable mon to face and likely broken. But why go after the whole weather? Is rain dominating tournaments or top of the ladder? Is Pelipper broken? We’re really considering that direction?
 
Pincurchin really needs an evolution or some stat buffs. It has no HP, 95 less BST than Rillaboom and lowest BST of the fully evolved terrain setters, and doesn’t have proper moves like Rising Voltage or Volt Switch.
Maybe if Electric had actual resistances, Pincurchin would start seeing legit use.
There's only a select handful of attacks Pincurchin can comfortably switch into. Flying, which is largely Defensive and the only two Pokemon running Flying Type moves are Roaring Moon and Corviknight, Steel, which you basically just lose to every other move each Steel Type has anyways and Electric, which is almost nowhere to be seen.
 
People are having issues with rain? Really?

Archaludon is dumb as heck. Definitely a miserable mon to face and likely broken. But why go after the whole weather? Is rain dominating tournaments or top of the ladder? Is Pelipper broken? We’re really considering that direction?
Because archaludon isn't a problem outside of rain and it's the combination of it with other mons, like with swift swimmers and other rain abusers like Barreskewda, Raging Bolt, Tornadus-T, etc; since it patches up defensive holes and hits really hard.

It's probably an issue of the meta being too powercrept for rain considering how many rain abusers we have
 

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