Everyone should run Gunk shot for basically this reason. Dire claw weak as f bros. Dire claw more like in dire need of more damage
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v3
- Thread starter TPP
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I run Gunk Shot Sneasler and it’s still busted a shit.
exactly my point. when you Have a pokemon that outspeed and ohko under rain, you Have a relative solution to your problems.
The Ice beam greninja in my pocket:
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*me wondering If anyone really does this*
If you run gunk shot you struggle against skeledirge. If you run dire claw you Can put it asleep. If gunk shot you gET nuked by haze toxapex. If dire claw is good night pex
Not the tier leader making silly one-liners in the thread, truly not a role model behaviour smh finch ban gambit nowwww kekw
In all seriousness, does Gunk Shot increase Poison Touch? I feel like the cheese of Dire Claw is more worth it than the damage of Gunk Shot. Plus so many steels running around blah blah blah
Timid Kartana will strike back in DLC2 and send Sneasler straight to RUBL
I think he will stay ou, because of grassy seed +Sd+ unburden
natdex sneasler has Koko screens support. Your sneasler is a huge joke. You don't know what pain was ghostium z ghost pokemon. strong stab+no koff buffed damages, one of the many reasons for ghold and dtaga ban. ursalunaB Still légal, running bm normalium z so it Can attack three turns in a row, you don't understand that your tier is a kindergarten.
OU isn’t National dex, different meta, different banlist
I... I know, and that's clearly a sign that you saw natdex and stop reading
Behold, one of the Gambit sets of all time:
Kingambit @ Flame Orb
Ability: Supreme Overlord
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Facade
- Sucker Punch
- Kowtow Cleave / Iron Head / Who cares you're only clicking Facade
252+ Atk Supreme Overlord 5 allies fainted Tera Normal Kingambit Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Unaware Dondozo: 253-298 (50.1 - 59.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Big numbers equals good. Do not give it any more thought.
Could I take this time to acknowledge something? I wanna take a loop back to the OU usage stats.
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banned) 
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banned) 
Now look I know that I am not as "big brained" as some people, but I just want to point out the elephant in the room here. What you see above is (in order plus the current bans) the entire list of pokemon classified as OU via usage this month. And it just seems kinda dull. Like... I can't really explain it as once again, I don't have the skill of top players, but I can try.
As far back as gen 3, we got Camerupt in ADV OU. It has a genuine niche -- a good niche at that. It can switch-in to some of the most common pokemon like Zapdos and Gengar, has the very dangerous Explosion, and also has a great offensive typing and type combination. It even has a partial Ground types added perk of a sand immunity -- which is amazing for its viability. Another example more recent is 3 gens later in ORAS with Cofagrigus. Cofagrigus' niche in ORAS is that of a stopgap to some of the most threatening physical mons that make contact with their moves like Mega Medicham, Mega Lopunny and Azumarill by way of Mummy + Will-o-Wisp. It does have a niche and like Camerupt, seen tournament success. An even more recent example in this gen (albeit kinda linear) is Calm Mind Blissey. With the addition of Bloodmoon Ursaluna and Gholdengo among things like Manaphy and other generally offensive special attackers, Blissey is a sitting duck against them. Enter Calm Mind -- a way for Blissey to match and surpass the very idea of a special wall by becoming something unholy in terms of special defense. It's still stall, but Calm Mind is an interesting use of what Blissey has in order for it to do its job.
It's very clear that pokemon could see play in a limited pokedex. It's very clear that something could pop up and flip the metagame upside down (like that AV Toxapex. Not op but still interesting). But as it stands right now and for the future, the metagame as it is isnt very diverse. That is how things work with metagames, you're right. But do you really find it fun to have the same exact 20 pokemon in a team? I don't. Within the 36 pokemon that are OU now, there are obvious cores and outliers like Kingambit, Cinderace, Rillaboom + Sneasler and such. But the stranglehold of what currently is OU has deviated to a lack of potential to have an anti meta pick. Even in tournament play right now (this will change soon), you basically play the momentum game with 5 pokemon as one of them is guaranteed almost. It reaches a point of repetition and your own pure sanity to not think that this metagame is kinda stale. Just forget the upcoming DLC in a month -- there's something we can use at this moment right?
Of course there are outliers here and there at times, but none of them became official. I'm not trying to start another argument about what is and isn't viableIm still dying on the Forretress hill but I hope someone or myself could hopefully find something with a valuable niche. Or an interesting metagame set development in response to the current meta at large. I can't speak for everyone and will probably start a debate, but I will try to find something of value in these desperate times :(
( banned) ( banned) Now look I know that I am not as "big brained" as some people, but I just want to point out the elephant in the room here. What you see above is (in order plus the current bans) the entire list of pokemon classified as OU via usage this month. And it just seems kinda dull. Like... I can't really explain it as once again, I don't have the skill of top players, but I can try.
As far back as gen 3, we got Camerupt in ADV OU. It has a genuine niche -- a good niche at that. It can switch-in to some of the most common pokemon like Zapdos and Gengar, has the very dangerous Explosion, and also has a great offensive typing and type combination. It even has a partial Ground types added perk of a sand immunity -- which is amazing for its viability. Another example more recent is 3 gens later in ORAS with Cofagrigus. Cofagrigus' niche in ORAS is that of a stopgap to some of the most threatening physical mons that make contact with their moves like Mega Medicham, Mega Lopunny and Azumarill by way of Mummy + Will-o-Wisp. It does have a niche and like Camerupt, seen tournament success. An even more recent example in this gen (albeit kinda linear) is Calm Mind Blissey. With the addition of Bloodmoon Ursaluna and Gholdengo among things like Manaphy and other generally offensive special attackers, Blissey is a sitting duck against them. Enter Calm Mind -- a way for Blissey to match and surpass the very idea of a special wall by becoming something unholy in terms of special defense. It's still stall, but Calm Mind is an interesting use of what Blissey has in order for it to do its job.
It's very clear that pokemon could see play in a limited pokedex. It's very clear that something could pop up and flip the metagame upside down (like that AV Toxapex. Not op but still interesting). But as it stands right now and for the future, the metagame as it is isnt very diverse. That is how things work with metagames, you're right. But do you really find it fun to have the same exact 20 pokemon in a team? I don't. Within the 36 pokemon that are OU now, there are obvious cores and outliers like Kingambit, Cinderace, Rillaboom + Sneasler and such. But the stranglehold of what currently is OU has deviated to a lack of potential to have an anti meta pick. Even in tournament play right now (this will change soon), you basically play the momentum game with 5 pokemon as one of them is guaranteed almost. It reaches a point of repetition and your own pure sanity to not think that this metagame is kinda stale. Just forget the upcoming DLC in a month -- there's something we can use at this moment right?
Of course there are outliers here and there at times, but none of them became official. I'm not trying to start another argument about what is and isn't viable
252+ Atk Choice Band Guts Tera Normal Ursaluna Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dondozo: 520-612 (103.1 - 121.4%) -- guaranteed OHKOBehold, one of the Gambit sets of all time:
Kingambit @ Flame Orb
Ability: Supreme Overlord
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Facade
- Sucker Punch
- Kowtow Cleave / Iron Head / Who cares you're only clicking Facade
252+ Atk Supreme Overlord 5 allies fainted Tera Normal Kingambit Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Unaware Dondozo: 253-298 (50.1 - 59.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Big numbers equals good. Do not give it any more thought.
There’s more to life than kingambit. Bigger numbers equal bigger good
how tf u manage to cb And burn? And ursaluna is a big delete button And If porygon2 (back With dlc2) keeps tport then ursaluna is most likely about to rise to OU again as a tr sweeper. But many things L'ost tport And I dont see p2 having U-turn. Sad, But what Can We do about it? I think it's a good eviolite mon With 105 sPA And huge bulk, recovery, tr, download, trace etc. DLC2 must bring back starmie rapid spin And tport p2. Hopefully, With alakazam line supposedly coming back iirc tport will Have a more spreaded distribution (tutor maybe) But that's wishlisting almost;-;
Honest question: Why are you here? The majority of your posts have been concerned with why Natdex is the superior format with better players and how we should really be doing everything like they do. Have you considered maybe... just playing Natdex? You don't much seem to like OU or appreciate its differences from Natdex, and you didn't even understand there were differences at first. This board is for people who play OU and want to discuss and help develop the metagame, not complain about how it's so much better over that hill beyond the horizon. Just go over that hill yourself and leave us to it. Or (Hopefully you pick this one because I like when more people play this game) take some time to learn why OU is the way it is and eventually start to appreciate it.
Yeah, that's how I feel about OU every generation nowadays. Like there are 37 viable mons by usage. That's honestly pretty pitiful. And that's every OU for the past like.... 5 generations? Like there's a few "good" mons with a role compression stranglehold that completely invalidates any logic behind ingenuity. Why use anything else when Kingambit exists? Why both using Donphan or Iron Treads, or literally any other ground type when Great Tusk, Gliscor, and Lando-T exist? I just hate that OU looks the same every time. Dexit was the only good thing that happened to the game, and Home and DLC keep introducing these completely degenerate things that make the game just Stale.Could I take this time to acknowledge something? I wanna take a loop back to the OU usage stats.
Now look I know that I am not as "big brained" as some people, but I just want to point out the elephant in the room here. What you see above is (in order plus the current bans) the entire list of pokemon classified as OU via usage this month. And it just seems kinda dull. Like... I can't really explain it as once again, I don't have the skill of top players, but I can try.
As far back as gen 3, we got Camerupt in ADV OU. It has a genuine niche -- a good niche at that. It can switch-in to some of the most common pokemon like Zapdos and Gengar, has the very dangerous Explosion, and also has a great offensive typing and type combination. It even has a partial Ground types added perk of a sand immunity -- which is amazing for its viability. Another example more recent is 3 gens later in ORAS with Cofagrigus. Cofagrigus' niche in ORAS is that of a stopgap to some of the most threatening physical mons that make contact with their moves like Mega Medicham, Mega Lopunny and Azumarill by way of Mummy + Will-o-Wisp. It does have a niche and like Camerupt, seen tournament success. An even more recent example in this gen (albeit kinda linear) is Calm Mind Blissey. With the addition of Bloodmoon Ursaluna and Gholdengo among things like Manaphy and other generally offensive special attackers, Blissey is a sitting duck against them. Enter Calm Mind -- a way for Blissey to match and surpass the very idea of a special wall by becoming something unholy in terms of special defense. It's still stall, but Calm Mind is an interesting use of what Blissey has in order for it to do its job.
It's very clear that pokemon could see play in a limited pokedex. It's very clear that something could pop up and flip the metagame upside down (like that AV Toxapex. Not op but still interesting). But as it stands right now and for the future, the metagame as it is isnt very diverse. That is how things work with metagames, you're right. But do you really find it fun to have the same exact 20 pokemon in a team? I don't. Within the 36 pokemon that are OU now, there are obvious cores and outliers like Kingambit, Cinderace, Rillaboom + Sneasler and such. But the stranglehold of what currently is OU has deviated to a lack of potential to have an anti meta pick. Even in tournament play right now (this will change soon), you basically play the momentum game with 5 pokemon as one of them is guaranteed almost. It reaches a point of repetition and your own pure sanity to not think that this metagame is kinda stale. Just forget the upcoming DLC in a month -- there's something we can use at this moment right?
Of course there are outliers here and there at times, but none of them became official. I'm not trying to start another argument about what is and isn't viableIm still dying on the Forretress hillbut I hope someone or myself could hopefully find something with a valuable niche. Or an interesting metagame set development in response to the current meta at large. I can't speak for everyone and will probably start a debate, but I will try to find something of value in these desperate times :(
And besides the new mons that sneak in and the rare innovation like AV Pex, this generation is just the Same Thing as Gen 8. It won't look different, it won't feel different, and it ultimately will be forgotten as a waste of time if/when tera gets banned.
The only good thing that has happened this generation is the transparency and readiness of the council, which has gone a long way to improve the overall experience of gen 9.
But at the end of the day, it's still going to be the same meta as gen 8 and gen 7 +- like 10 pokemon out of the not even 40 that "Meet the Cutoff" for "OU".
I don't think it's salvageable, either. Like banning Gholdengo, Gliscor, Kingambit, and Potentially Tera makes this format just another miserable Gen 8 clone. And I don't think that's anyone's fault, nor do I think we can stop that from happening. Dexit is the only method to diversify the game, but between Home bringing back Toxic moves and mons alongside DLC just dropping in nonsense over and over, there's nothing that will make Gen 9 worth playing long-term. It's already miserable to play short-term. I honestly don't think anyone genuinely enjoys this generation over... let's say gen 5 or 6? Could that be a survey question next time? Just something like "Compared to previous generations, do you think this generation is better/worse?" I'd be curious to see if I'm the only one who sees things this way.
Sorry, I know we don't want to start discourse, so I'll just go hide under a stealth rock for a while.
We've got tons of new mons, new moves, PP changes, Dexit, and mons losing and gaining moves all over the place.
I don't understand how anyone who plays this game with a modicum of depth could ever say "If we ban Tera, this is just gen 8 again." Calling it the same as gen 7, when we also had Megas and Z Moves and before Dexit, is so out of bounds I feel like you're trolling.
I don't understand how anyone who plays this game with a modicum of depth could ever say "If we ban Tera, this is just gen 8 again." Calling it the same as gen 7, when we also had Megas and Z Moves and before Dexit, is so out of bounds I feel like you're trolling.
Maybe this is the RBY main in me but describing 37 viable mons as 'pitiful' is wild to me. Like you cannot seriously tell me that having almost 40 good mons means the meta is too restrictive. Like what.
Flying immunity + walls Wogre obviously.
Also speaking of weather. What the hell happened to rain? I rarely ever see it despite being buffed by Flip Turn, Manaphy, and Wogre.
Wogre is honestly more of a negative to rain than a positive. It's a splashable pokemon that is immune to the main force of rain teams, that being swift swimmers using water moves. Like, sure, hurricane users can ohko it back, but due to it's speed and the boost to ivy cudgel in rain, not much is doing both. Like, only walking wake and dragonite have both hurricane and a resistance to water, and you are definetely not using special dragonite, but hey, you do you.Flying immunity + walls Wogre obviously.
Also speaking of weather. What the hell happened to rain? I rarely ever see it despite being buffed by Flip Turn, Manaphy, and Wogre.
Also 2 calcs to show my point.
252 Atk Wellspring Mask Ogerpon-Wellspring Ivy Cudgel vs. 252 HP / 104 Def Zapdos in Rain: 283-334 (73.6 - 86.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Wellspring Mask Ogerpon-Wellspring Ivy Cudgel vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Zapdos in Rain: 318-375 (99 - 116.8%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
Like hurricane back is a guarenteed one hit ko, but a good player will have answers to flying types.
A brand new extremely good OU mon with Water Absorb makes clicking Water moves kind of a dangerous bet. It's actually a lot worse for rain overall for how it shuts it down than it contributes. Rain didn't really get any new toys either, and since Wake is slower than Waterpon and the Basculegions can't really threaten it well...Flying immunity + walls Wogre obviously.
Also speaking of weather. What the hell happened to rain? I rarely ever see it despite being buffed by Flip Turn, Manaphy, and Wogre.
Almost 40 good mons plus (usually) 15-25 lower tier mons that you'd reasonably expect to see in a high level tour. Granted, I think they were trying to argue that there is less room for those lower tier picks considering the stranglehold that hazard stack teams have on the meta rn
They both have merits, though I feel that Gunk Shot is often the better set. Unpredictable Dire Claw cheese isn’t really a big upside for unburden Sneasler. Sneasler cares much more about reliable damage than status procs (the 17% sleep chance is the only valuable one anyway but that can’t be relied on). Gunk Shot provides a contactless move that nets crucial OHKOs against some mons like Zapdos. The only real downside is the lower accuracy. Dire Claw thus provides a reliable alternative to hit mons like Valiant and Clef when you really can’t afford a miss.
My opinion has changed about Sneasler recently. I feel that in this meta the cheeky weasel has become an overbearing sweeper with insufficient checks solely due to the unburden terrain set. It will become more clearly problematic if/when Gliscor is banned as it will lose one of the few crucial checks to the night slash tera dark set. It feels like a very Roaring-Moon esque mon to me. It usually only gets one chance to sweep per game but when it does it’s very difficult to check.
you're a smart person, but i'm going to be blunt: this sentiment is dumb. it's incredibly dumb. you've got a good head on your shoulders, you shouldn't be filling it with an opinion like that. it's not "like 10 pokemon" that make the difference (which would already be a pretty substantial change). here are the pokemon in gen 9 ou that were not available to use in gen 8 ou:
normally i would be right there with you, but good lord it's like i can summon the right status if i try hard enough with this damn rat. sneasler is a pretty cheesy mon no matter what poison stab you run, but as a person with an abnormally high luck stat, i'd much rather go for the one that'll rngtilt my opponent
my opinion is this:
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What is your opinion on a palafin unban? Considering it must Switch to gET to hero form, that we're in a Hazard meta And that ogerpon-w exist, i don't think it'll be broken anymore. It would Even bring a counterplay to gliscor And would anyways be owned by grassy glide rillaboom. Wave crash sure is threatening, But With pex, ogerpon-w, rilla around, idk, It feels... Balanced. Sure it'll be strong But It is owned by water types And some top tiers, And so I don't think it's presence will be that bad for the meta.
Also About gliscor the only reason why it's broken is because of the lack of Hazard control. Did you know that blissey could 1v1 [insert special attacker] in old gens With toxic? Was It broken? Nah. It had stealth Rock btw. "Yes But spikes is the problem, old gens glisc hadn't spikes" well your "reliable recovery" is 12,5%. In comparison, old gen glisc had +18,smthing% And had roost. While protect is better for toxic Stall, roost Was better overall. gliscor is not immune to rapid spin normal defog, And Can only toxic against flying types, And some of them are Even immune. being 100% walled by some pokemon like corviknight one of the tWO best defoggers. koff immunity is not new And bro isn't Even really immune. The problem, for The 9283892963th time, is not being able to remove them. And gliscor is not Even The reason. For more information, looknatdex. Well did you consider that gholdengo had An influence on games when it's not There. We really SHOULD keep Hazard control in the team as ghold is only#3 usage And gliscor is "so problematic" don't come up With " SD variant" as it has literally 95 attack/spe. It is largly outclassed by anything With ddance
Nah by most you mean 3 so Chill on that. Also i'm here Cause well I Can!
Also About gliscor the only reason why it's broken is because of the lack of Hazard control. Did you know that blissey could 1v1 [insert special attacker] in old gens With toxic? Was It broken? Nah. It had stealth Rock btw. "Yes But spikes is the problem, old gens glisc hadn't spikes" well your "reliable recovery" is 12,5%. In comparison, old gen glisc had +18,smthing% And had roost. While protect is better for toxic Stall, roost Was better overall. gliscor is not immune to rapid spin normal defog, And Can only toxic against flying types, And some of them are Even immune. being 100% walled by some pokemon like corviknight one of the tWO best defoggers. koff immunity is not new And bro isn't Even really immune. The problem, for The 9283892963th time, is not being able to remove them. And gliscor is not Even The reason. For more information, look
Ever heard of something called Slaking? Yea ok now what if it had:
- Priority
- A better base typing
and (here's the kicker): AN ACTUAL ABILITY
ok, i'm just gonna jump in here and point out that zero to hero is technically not "an actual ability". it does hinder palafin by forcing it to switch out and back in to activate its broken-ass bullshit fishbunjin cheat code ultrapriority cheese dondozo killer kaioken brawl meta knight fuck-this-mon-and-fuck-game-freak-for-making-it form, and it doesn't help palafin once it's in cheater form at all. at that point it's basically the same as having no ability. which is still infinitely better than having truant (especially in a meta where the best pokemon always runs protect)
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