Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v3

[RS25802580]

OK, after well over 200 battles, and being para-haxed and Dire Claw-sleeped more times than I can count, faced with a plethora of bad matchups and niche things (I don't know what's going on, but nothing i've met the last days is even close to the meta that was around for the last suspect, or whatever the viability rankings may hint at), I'm officially out of my attempt to get reqs this time. Worth noting that I got a lot of very lucky matches with freezes and crits and all kinds of nonsense... on lower ladder, then all the misses, sleeps and para-hax on mid and high ladder. Would've highly prefered it the other way around, lady luck.

I'm also conflicted on whether or not to try ever again because while it was fun last time and playing the game in itself is good, I don't like to have to care about my "elo", "GXE" or "winning rate", as it's a source of stress and anxiety and nothing more. But I don't like the idea of mons and full mechanics being taken in and out of the meta without me having any saying on it, all the more when I can get a 75~78 GXE on 50 battles consistently, but apparently have to dedicate 10h+, from 6 to 12 attempts and well over 200 battles on average to get to 80%, or fail to do so. Which makes no sense to me, but oh well.

In any case, BAN GLISCOR, BAN GHOLDENGO (this isn't the suspect thread, so I can say it!), please and thank you.

I really resonate with this. I personally don't enjoy the GXE way of reqs because after a few bad matchups or unlucky rng rolls, you're just better off starting over again on a new alt. Another bout of bad luck and have to start a new alt and the process repeats. This polarizes the reqs teams to either running stall (increases reliability of wins) or hyperoffense (so you minimize playtime if you have to keep trying on new alts). As a balance enjoyer, neither of these options really appeal to me.

It seems like getting reqs is all about investing time, but unfortunately I have neither the time nor energy to put in those kinds of hours (college go brr). I don't think it's too much of a skill issue since I'm usually hovering around ~1800 on the ladder and like you am typically around 75~78 GXE. It's that 80 GXE that for me takes a grind and time commitment that I can't afford.

Anyhow, thought I'd voice my thoughts and let you know I agree :)

 

[SDK03]

(sneasler is somehow still OU despite getting knock off and a move that sets terrain and swords dance at once)
(genesect has been quick banned from SV OU)

Metagross is now an OU screens staple after getting Shift Gear that people have started to complain about (its 108 Speed Paradox form has also been banned cause of its Shift Gear set). Metagross and Kingambit will survive their suspects (it’s Kingambit’s third suspect).

 

[viivian]

Considering how strong manaphy is as a tera abuser already, I fear what tera fire v-create Victini could do if Victini returns as one of the home transfer mythicals in DLC2, as I don't think many things want to switch into that

And if Victini gets victory dance, yeah that's gonna be insane too if it ends up coming back and getting that

i feel like this meta is fast-paced enough to where this could feasibly be stoppable but we will see. the loss of pivotal transfer moves also hurts it a ton but we dont know if those are gone for good or not

Metagross is now an OU screens staple after getting Shift Gear that people have started to complain about (its 108 Speed Paradox form has also been banned cause of its Shift Gear set). Metagross and Kingambit will survive their suspects (it’s Kingambit’s third suspect).

metagross becoming problematic in OU? smells like gen 7 up in here

 

[RudeLiees]

always the same 10 people in the chat that argue that glisc is banworthy. Glisc is severely aweakened by having only four slots with only one to protect, Knock, cover, U-turn, icw fang, and every dumb thing it does with a worse quality than Other mons

Im curious to see ur elo lol..

joke aside, Gliscor is broken, he can run many différents sets, have a very long longevity if played correctly, the ice gang set is rare, and tbh I find ice fang useless because he will tank and absorb the potential freeze
0 Atk Gliscor Ice Fang vs. 244 HP / 252+ Def Gliscor: 112-136 (31.8 - 38.6%) -- 81.3% chance to 4HKO after Poison Heal
U wanna run ice spinner ? Here’s the calc :
4 Atk Great Tusk Ice Spinner vs. 244 HP / 252+ Def Gliscor: 180-216 (51.1 - 61.3%) -- 53.9% chance to 2HKO after Poison Heal
Manaphy ?
252 SpA Manaphy Surf vs. 244 HP / 12 SpD Gliscor: 306-362 (86.9 - 102.8%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
Too predictable and he will Tera or switch

 

[Welcome to mars]

i expect dragonite usage to rise since its the only viable dragon dance sweeper left ( unless you count dragapult which prefer to use specs)

joke aside, Gliscor is broken, he can run many différents sets, have a very long longevity if played correctly, the ice gang set is rare, and tbh I find ice fang useless because he will tank and absorb the potential freeze
0 Atk Gliscor Ice Fang vs. 244 HP / 252+ Def Gliscor: 112-136 (31.8 - 38.6%) -- 81.3% chance to 4HKO after Poison Heal
U wanna run ice spinner ? Here’s the calc :
4 Atk Great Tusk Ice Spinner vs. 244 HP / 252+ Def Gliscor: 180-216 (51.1 - 61.3%) -- 53.9% chance to 2HKO after Poison Heal
Manaphy ?
252 SpA Manaphy Surf vs. 244 HP / 12 SpD Gliscor: 306-362 (86.9 - 102.8%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
Too predictable and he will Tera or switch

Bro stop raging, just use tera ice swords dance gligar, its immune to poison and can use midscor as set up fodder
+2 252+ Atk Tera Ice Gligar Ice Fang vs. 244 HP / 252+ Def Gliscor: 400-472 (113.6 - 134%) -- guaranteed OHKO

So I've been spamming this thought a lot, but does anyone else find it crazy how hard Hydreigon fell off? Shit was arguably on the same threat level as Bax pre-home, but now it barely sees any usage. Its MUs vs some of the top tiers still isn't even that bad. SubNP prob still cooks gliscor, and naturally matches up well vs Gambit and Ghold. Ogerpon is a bit iffy, but Hydreigon still has the typing to do well vs Oger, although Play Rough and U-Turn should still be hurting quite a bit and Encore will be annoying. Tera Steel should in theory do well vs Clef, esp since Clef is more scrapped for slots and doesn't seem to run Flamethrower much these days. I suppose the setup required to make Hydreigon work is too high in an offensive meta, esp with its questionable MUs vs the likes of Valiant, Sneasler, etc. while its MU vs CM Blissey isn't great either, but it really doesn't seem like it should be that bad rn.

if a mon isn’t top tier in pre home ou, chances are it fell off during the hellhole that was post home ou, it also doesn’t wanna switch into big Gs toxic

 

[Magcargo]

So I've been spamming this thought a lot, but does anyone else find it crazy how hard Hydreigon fell off? Shit was arguably on the same threat level as Bax pre-home, but now it barely sees any usage. Its MUs vs some of the top tiers still isn't even that bad. SubNP prob still cooks gliscor, and naturally matches up well vs Gambit and Ghold. Ogerpon is a bit iffy, but Hydreigon still has the typing to do well vs Oger, although Play Rough and U-Turn should still be hurting quite a bit and Encore will be annoying. Tera Steel should in theory do well vs Clef, esp since Clef is more scrapped for slots and doesn't seem to run Flamethrower much these days. I suppose the setup required to make Hydreigon work is too high in an offensive meta, esp with its questionable MUs vs the likes of Valiant, Sneasler, etc. while its MU vs CM Blissey isn't great either, but it really doesn't seem like it should be that bad rn.

 

[DisDis]

So I've been spamming this thought a lot, but does anyone else find it crazy how hard Hydreigon fell off? Shit was arguably on the same threat level as Bax pre-home, but now it barely sees any usage. Its MUs vs some of the top tiers still isn't even that bad. SubNP prob still cooks gliscor, and naturally matches up well vs Gambit and Ghold. Ogerpon is a bit iffy, but Hydreigon still has the typing to do well vs Oger, although Play Rough and U-Turn should still be hurting quite a bit and Encore will be annoying. Tera Steel should in theory do well vs Clef, esp since Clef is more scrapped for slots and doesn't seem to run Flamethrower much these days. I suppose the setup required to make Hydreigon work is too high in an offensive meta, esp with its questionable MUs vs the likes of Valiant, Sneasler, etc. while its MU vs CM Blissey isn't great either, but it really doesn't seem like it should be that bad rn.

+ + + +

 

[Avira]

On the ladder last night, I saw someone use Chesto Berry Rest Great Tusk as his Kingambit check. The Kingambit user thought he had won since Great Tusk was in range of being KOed by a +2 Sucker Punch, but the Great Tusk user used Rest and ended Kingambit's dreams. It was an interesting tech to see given Great Tusk's tendency to get chipped over the course of a game.

 

[pika pal]

+ + + +

Five Fairies at OU (Tera Fairy Kingambit is the Golden one).

But all jokes aside, Hydreigon enjoys Levitate into Spikes but its power + coverage is strained on breaking a lot of defensive Cores right now, and chip damage racks up fast because Roost entails giving up something important for said breaking (NP and Sub are huge but he doesn't have any good 1-coverage Move option)

 

[Welcome to mars]

On the ladder last night, I saw someone use Chesto Berry Rest Great Tusk as his Kingambit check. The Kingambit user thought he had won since Great Tusk was in range of being KOed by a +2 Sucker Punch, but the Great Tusk user used Rest and ended Kingambit's dreams. It was an interesting tech to see given Great Tusk's tendency to get chipped over the course of a game.

let me guess, this mysterious player happened to have 1300-1600 elo?

 

[MattC (Banned)]

On the ladder last night, I saw someone use Chesto Berry Rest Great Tusk as his Kingambit check. The Kingambit user thought he had won since Great Tusk was in range of being KOed by a +2 Sucker Punch, but the Great Tusk user used Rest and ended Kingambit's dreams. It was an interesting tech to see given Great Tusk's tendency to get chipped over the course of a game.

let me guess, this mysterious player happened to have 1300-1600 elo?

I would use Rest Great Tusk. It technically beats even Toxic Gliscor and makes Toxic itself kinda just... a dead move. Good job the supposed 1300-1600 player for making such a tech

 

[Avira]

let me guess, this mysterious player happened to have 1300-1600 elo?

The player was in the 1600s, so he/she was higher on the ladder than you thought. I thought it was pretty cool seeing this tech, and it had a legitimate use unlike some of the very questionable techs you see at the lower end of the ladder.

 

[RudeLiees]

Bro stop raging, just use tera ice swords dance gligar, its immune to poison and can use midscor as set up fodder
+2 252+ Atk Tera Ice Gligar Ice Fang vs. 244 HP / 252+ Def Gliscor: 400-472 (113.6 - 134%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Welcome to mars, I’m not raging lol, I just say the verity. Glicar is unviable in ou, and who would run thi set, which is countered by Tera water/steel Gliscor, Gliscor is only used by lowladder.

Rest great tusk is a great idea, but need a very type team archetype ig, and makinghim toxic let him a possible setup

 

[Welcome to mars]

The player was in the 1600s, so he/she was higher on the ladder than you thought. I thought it was pretty cool seeing this tech, and it had a legitimate use unlike some of the very questionable techs you see at the lower end of the ladder.

i bet they were a former mid ladder menace tho

 

[veti]

In the DLC, Walking Wake was buffed, which got me intrigued in using it's own moves. I've tested it with a few cores and gotten feedback on the set and seen other people make teams with it, so I decided to make a small post about it here. Also making this because this thread is going right back to one liners

Walking Wake @ Choice Specs
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Surf/Scald
- Draco Meteor
- Knock Off
- Flip Turn

Walking Wake is a very effective knocker, especially against stall. Water STAB threatens all three knock absorbers (Gliscor, Corviknight, Clefable) and forces in pokemon like Toxapex and Blissey, making them succumb to spikes pressure. Other walls it can target with Knock Off include Clodsire (only water absorb), Amoongus and anything with Tera Water. Flip Turn allows Walking Wake to keep momentum vs offense without Wellspring or Volcanion, and even they fear specs Draco Meteor, as well as racking up extra spikes chip vs special walls. Scald is an alternative option over surf, however the power drop is noticable and most physical attackers just die to surf anyways. (Or is Ogerpon Water, and can't be burnt with scald bc immune).

Gliscor is a good teammate, Walking Wake threatens to kill removers and Spikes are needed for Knock Off to reach maximum value. Ghosts, especially Gholdengo, are appreciated to keep hazards up more easily, while special ghost types appreciate Walking Wake removing boots from fat spdef mons including Blissey. Speed Control is greatly appreciated, as Walking Wake only hits 109 and gets revenge killed by the plethora of faster attackers.

 

[YubelVT]

Five Fairies at OU (Tera Fairy Kingambit is the Golden one).

But all jokes aside, Hydreigon enjoys Levitate into Spikes but its power + coverage is strained on breaking a lot of defensive Cores right now, and chip damage racks up fast because Roost entails giving up something important for said breaking (NP and Sub are huge but he doesn't have any good 1-coverage Move option)

scizor bros we are so back

 

[viivian]

So I've been spamming this thought a lot, but does anyone else find it crazy how hard Hydreigon fell off? Shit was arguably on the same threat level as Bax pre-home, but now it barely sees any usage. Its MUs vs some of the top tiers still isn't even that bad. SubNP prob still cooks gliscor, and naturally matches up well vs Gambit and Ghold. Ogerpon is a bit iffy, but Hydreigon still has the typing to do well vs Oger, although Play Rough and U-Turn should still be hurting quite a bit and Encore will be annoying. Tera Steel should in theory do well vs Clef, esp since Clef is more scrapped for slots and doesn't seem to run Flamethrower much these days. I suppose the setup required to make Hydreigon work is too high in an offensive meta, esp with its questionable MUs vs the likes of Valiant, Sneasler, etc. while its MU vs CM Blissey isn't great either, but it really doesn't seem like it should be that bad rn.

hydreigon most definitely feels underexplored in this metagame, especially with roaring moon no longer being the dark/dragon type of choice on most teams. matches up very well into several top threats (as in pokemon found in the S or A ranks) and easily rips apart the stall and balance teams floating around. it is by no means bad but at the same time it does have quite a few matchups it really struggles in (HO easily runs it over) and theres also several other top threats able to outrun and OHKO it. so i get why it isnt OU anymore but i think it could see a bit more usage

 

[Ehmcee]

In the DLC, Walking Wake was buffed, which got me intrigued in using it's own moves. I've tested it with a few cores and gotten feedback on the set and seen other people make teams with it, so I decided to make a small post about it here. Also making this because this thread is going right back to one liners

Walking Wake @ Choice Specs
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Surf/Scald
- Draco Meteor
- Knock Off
- Flip Turn

Walking Wake is a very effective knocker, especially against stall. Water STAB threatens all three knock absorbers (Gliscor, Corviknight, Clefable) and forces in pokemon like Toxapex and Blissey, making them succumb to spikes pressure. Other walls it can target with Knock Off include Clodsire (only water absorb), Amoongus and anything with Tera Water. Flip Turn allows Walking Wake to keep momentum vs offense without Wellspring or Volcanion, and even they fear specs Draco Meteor, as well as racking up extra spikes chip vs special walls. Scald is an alternative option over surf, however the power drop is noticable and most physical attackers just die to surf anyways. (Or is Ogerpon Water, and can't be burnt with scald bc immune).

Gliscor is a good teammate, Walking Wake threatens to kill removers and Spikes are needed for Knock Off to reach maximum value. Ghosts, especially Gholdengo, are appreciated to keep hazards up more easily, while special ghost types appreciate Walking Wake removing boots from fat spdef mons including Blissey. Speed Control is greatly appreciated, as Walking Wake only hits 109 and gets revenge killed by the plethora of faster attackers.

I've been quite liking this, however I've found that being choice locked with wake SUCKS. Especially against Gliscor, who can just protect to scout your option and double into something like an Ogerpon if you used a water move, or clef if you draco'd... or just stay in if you knock lol...

Been trying this out, and while it's a bit more crazy, it's been quite cool:

Walking Wake @ Mystic Water
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Knock Off
- Flip Turn
- Scald

So while this does get omegawalled by Ogerpon-W, it's otherwise a very threatening presence, that does a number to stall. Being able to actually abuse Gliscor is huge, wether it be flip turning into something after it switches, or simply just fishing for scald burns when they go into their Rillaboom. Knock is very nice against stall to remove boots, while Flip Turn is pretty pivotal (heh) on offensive squads to keep momentum up. Although if you really want dragon coverage, you can probably remove flip for Draco, and potentially run HDB.

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

I really resonate with this. I personally don't enjoy the GXE way of reqs because after a few bad matchups or unlucky rng rolls, you're just better off starting over again on a new alt. Another bout of bad luck and have to start a new alt and the process repeats. This polarizes the reqs teams to either running stall (increases reliability of wins) or hyperoffense (so you minimize playtime if you have to keep trying on new alts). As a balance enjoyer, neither of these options really appeal to me.

It seems like getting reqs is all about investing time, but unfortunately I have neither the time nor energy to put in those kinds of hours (college go brr). I don't think it's too much of a skill issue since I'm usually hovering around ~1800 on the ladder and like you am typically around 75~78 GXE. It's that 80 GXE that for me takes a grind and time commitment that I can't afford.

Anyhow, thought I'd voice my thoughts and let you know I agree :)

yeah, i'd personally like to see a scoring system that can somehow factor in rng, so people who get rng'd don't lose as many points if they lose (possibly none at all if they get rng'd badly enough) and gain more points if they win because it was an uphill battle (and the opposite, too—people who get good rng would gain less and lose more). figuring out all the specifics of how this would weigh into the algorithm would be the really hard part, since some rng procs end up not actually affecting a game at all and others can actually benefit the rng victim (through blunder policy, for example), so using a simple "how many times did hax happen" counter wouldn't minimize rng's effect on ladder score; we'd need a much more complex algorithm that many would consider not worth the time or effort to build for such a relatively minor issue. there's also the fact that a change to something as fundamental and big as ladder score would likely need personal approval from zarel himself—and sure, he might approve of it if it could be proven a more accurate judge of skill than our current system, but i'm not entirely certain he's still… well, alive

 

[YNM]

+ + + +

First of all, you should add Clef to that list. Second, not exactly, Hydreigon is an incredibly good wallbreaker in the right matchups, but the problem is that it falls short due to the insane amount of better sweepers in the current meta, especially considering its pretty average speed compared to the modern standard. Tera Steel Hydreigon actually takes advantage of most Fairies due to its typing combination + Levitate, and can actually straight up wall them with the Sub+NP set. Clef needs to run Flamethrower in order to do shit to him after it Teras, Ninetales can't hit him at all, same goes for Ribombee unless it tries to go for the Stun Spore, Hatterene never goes for the Mystical Fire on turn 1 and it gets blown away by Flash Cannon, and Enamorus has the same problem as Hatterene since Hydreigon is immune to Earth Power. Valiant is the only Fairy that can threaten Hydreigon no matter what, but it needs to go for the CC instead of Moonblast and pray that it doesn't Tera Poison instead (which is not a bad Tera type, but I believe that Steel is better regardless due to the Flash Cannon STAB). Hydreigon could even potentially take advantage of Gliscor to set up, but it is still a mon that it is too reliant on Nasty Plot in order to be threatening, and with the current pace you hardly get the chance to do so when you have so many mons at >110 base Speed. Its other main problem is that it really, REALLY struggles against mons like Gambit and Ting-Lu, and since everybody and their moms is running Kingambit nowadays it becomes pretty hard to succesfully sweep your opponent.
I think the main problem with the newer gens isn't even power creep as a whole, but rather the insane Speed creep that comes along with it.

 

[Magcargo]

First of all, you should add Clef to that list. Second, not exactly, Hydreigon is an incredibly good wallbreaker in the right matchups, but the problem is that it falls short due to the insane amount of better sweepers in the current meta, especially considering its pretty average speed compared to the modern standard. Tera Steel Hydreigon actually takes advantage of most Fairies due to its typing combination + Levitate, and can actually straight up wall them with the Sub+NP set. Clef needs to run Flamethrower in order to do shit to him after it Teras, Ninetales can't hit him at all, same goes for Ribombee unless it tries to go for the Stun Spore, Hatterene never goes for the Mystical Fire on turn 1 and it gets blown away by Flash Cannon, and Enamorus has the same problem as Hatterene since Hydreigon is immune to Earth Power. Valiant is the only Fairy that can threaten Hydreigon no matter what, but it needs to go for the CC instead of Moonblast and pray that it doesn't Tera Poison instead (which is not a bad Tera type, but I believe that Steel is better regardless due to the Flash Cannon STAB). Hydreigon could even potentially take advantage of Gliscor to set up, but it is still a mon that it is too reliant on Nasty Plot in order to be threatening, and with the current pace you hardly get the chance to do so when you have so many mons at >110 base Speed. It's other main problem is that it really, REALLY struggles against mons like Gambit and Ting-Lu, and since everybody and their moms is running Kingambit nowadays it becomes pretty hard to succesfully sweep your opponent.
I think the main problem with the newer gens isn't even power creep as a whole, but rather the insane Speed creep that comes along with it.

I've been running ol' reliable Tera Steel NP / Sub / EP / Draco for the past couple of hours and that's been cooking Kingambits on the ladder. Hydreigon falling off actually is good for it somewhat since Kingambits / Gholdengos etc. have no idea what its actually running and those can easily give it those free turns to setup Nasty Plots, Subs, etc. One play I've been seeing is Gambit's switching into Hydreigon thinking they wall it without Tera only to get blown up by NP boosted EP (literally OHKOed). Another play I've liked is switching into Air Balloon Gholdengo and forcing it out since it thinks I have Dark Pulse. From my experience so far, I also agree that Clefable isn't as much of an issue. The main variant I see on the ladder is Wish / Protect / Moonblast / Stealth Rock, which alongside its buddy Gliscor, is just free setup for Hydreigon and it doesn't even need Flash Cannon to KO it. Hydreigon does pretty well vs a lot of other staples too like G-King, Great Tusk, etc. Pairs super well with U-Turn Corv since you can bring it in safely vs Gliscor & let it setup a free sub + bait balloon Gholdengo and break the balloon..

This meta is a bit weird for Hydreigon, because it actually loves Gliscor slowing the game down so it can setup those free Nasty Plots. That being said, its put into a lot of easy losing positions vs the likes of Dragapult, Iron Valiant, Enamorus, Ting-Lu, Sneasler, etc. and giving those guys free turns to do stuff like setup SD isn't exactly good. Its match-ups in general are very lopsided vs the top tiers, which makes it feel inconsistent. The speed tier of Zama and friends being so much better doesn't exactly help. I guess another one of its issues can be attributed to how it is a top tier Balance breaker in a metagame with 50 other top tier balance breakers, and its match-ups vs Stall and HO aren't as good, though it will get its moments to shine in those MUs due to doing well vs a few key threats like Tusk, Gambit, Dengo, etc. The fact that its not affected by webs (and hazards in general) is also a massive boon.

 

[That_Dwayneee]

I feel the need to mention that as far as things go tera poison is better than tera steel on hydreigon as it gains a fighting resist and doesn’t have a fire weakness, in fact its only weakness after the tera is psychic - which doesn’t matter.

Hydreigon faces stiff competition rn from other special attackers like enamorus, gholdengo, and sub np rotom-w, which has a better typing and can spread para with discharge, and np torn-t, which doesn’t care much if it gets toxiced due to regenerator. Along with the fact that balance teams are a lot worse rn with the exception of gliscor clef builds, makes it harder to both fit and justify, even ignoring the amount of moves it wants to run on the same set.

It does have the funny draco button though.

 

[YNM]

I feel like I really wanna ban Gholdengo due to its overpowered ability and warping presence in the meta, but at the same time I cannot stop pondering over how good this mon functions as glue during teambuilding. Ghost/Steel is an incredibly good typing that covers a significant amount of weaknesses in many teams, and with Dengo's more than solid stats it really shines as a defensive answer to the many threats we currently have in this meta. Ability aside, Gholdengo has an amazing movepool and stat distribution that allow it to run multiple sets effectively, and it would be a well-rounded and well-designed mon if it wasn't for Good as Gold. I wonder how problematic mons like Valiant, Sneasler and Zamazenta will get once we ban what is probably their greatest check. I know that "broken checks broken" isn't a good solution at all, but this is just food for thoughts. I won't hide the fact that I run Gholdengo in most of my teams simply because of how easy it is to use for both offense and support, and I'll definitely have to find an alternative for it.

 

[YubelVT]

Yknow what? I actually really like seeing this. I think we should see more use of Guts/Marvel Scale with actual items. Like you don't need to be burn yourself, that's just extra chip in this meta. I guess the downside is that you "Don't have an ability" until you switch into a status move, but I think that rewards smart play and predictions.
I know I could run some calcs myself, but I'm curious what benchmarks you had in mind with the EV spread? And what the difference is between unboosted and Marvel Scaled defenses?

According to the person who made the set, there are no benchmarks other than the speed ev making you faster than 200. Def hits 315 with a status which lets you eat physical hits better

 

[YubelVT]

Is Calm Mind Blissey actually good rn or are a bunch of people in 13-1400 smoking the gen 4 crack?