Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v3

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For those that have played OU for more than one Gen, why do you like OU specifically? Is it simply because of the "higher average power" of the tier, or do you have a favourite that was/is consistently an OU mon?
I don't lol

I prefer playing lower tiers and other metas way more than OU, especially as the gens keep going and both my favorites dropping out of the tier or the meta just being so incredibly unfun to play. OMs have been my home for a much longer time than anything else, and even LC was fun last generation once I got a handle on how it all worked.

The problem with gen 9 is that every tier is currently in the shitter, so I might as well try OU for the first time since gen 7 seriously.
 
Apologies if this is too drastic a topic shift or not something to ask in this thread, but the mention of XY made me curious (and slightly nostalgic).

For those that have played OU for more than one Gen, why do you like OU specifically? Is it simply because of the "higher average power" of the tier, or do you have a favourite that was/is consistently an OU mon?

Edit: and for those whose introduction to Smogon is with this current gen, why did you choose OU over other tiers?

Hope that question makes sense lol
Highest player density by a huge margin means the weirdest people congregate here. I think I've talked about this before, but players of lower tiers or older gens sorta filter themselves by being there to begin with since current OU is the "default" level of play and everything else is based on it. OU is where everyone who doesn't filter themselves ends up, so naturally, that means you have the largest amount of weirdos per square inch. They're good both for laughing at and for coming up with cool strats and meta developments I wouldn't have thought of. Sometimes both!

More seriously, I am unironically the asshole whose favorite Pokemon are OU stars like Ferrothorn, Dragapult, Greninja, Starmie, Gliscor, Aegislash, the works. I like super cool and strong-looking mons. It's a lot harder for me to get hyped up about using like... Venomoth, you know?
 
Apologies if this is too drastic a topic shift or not something to ask in this thread, but the mention of XY made me curious (and slightly nostalgic).

For those that have played OU for more than one Gen, why do you like OU specifically? Is it simply because of the "higher average power" of the tier, or do you have a favourite that was/is consistently an OU mon?

Edit: and for those whose introduction to Smogon is with this current gen, why did you choose OU over other tiers?

Hope that question makes sense lol
I prefer OU because I have an extreme dislike for the official formats and OU is the default/most populated Smogon tier. There's some others I have passing interest in (UU, RU) and some OMs I find interesting (AAA, random OMs of the month), but OU is by far the largest of Smogon's tiers, so I might as well play it.
 
Highest player density by a huge margin means the weirdest people congregate here. I think I've talked about this before, but players of lower tiers or older gens sorta filter themselves by being there to begin with since current OU is the "default" level of play and everything else is based on it. OU is where everyone who doesn't filter themselves ends up, so naturally, that means you have the largest amount of weirdos per square inch. They're good both for laughing at and for coming up with cool strats and meta developments I wouldn't have thought of. Sometimes both!

More seriously, I am unironically the asshole whose favorite Pokemon are OU stars like Ferrothorn, Dragapult, Greninja, Starmie, Gliscor, Aegislash, the works. I like super cool and strong-looking mons. It's a lot harder for me to get hyped up about using like... Venomoth, you know?
Do not slander the lord's name in vain (Lord venomoth). But honestly I agree, as ferrothorn is one of my top 5 favourite pokemon.
Jokes aside venomoth is one of the examples of pokemon that got better throughout the generations, with its peaks being banned from Gen 6 UU while baton pass was around and being actually great in both Gen 5 and 7 UU. I've even had some good success with it in this gen RU, as with wonder skin you can easily set up on wo chien.
 
Highest player density by a huge margin means the weirdest people congregate here. I think I've talked about this before, but players of lower tiers or older gens sorta filter themselves by being there to begin with since current OU is the "default" level of play and everything else is based on it. OU is where everyone who doesn't filter themselves ends up, so naturally, that means you have the largest amount of weirdos per square inch. They're good both for laughing at and for coming up with cool strats and meta developments I wouldn't have thought of. Sometimes both!

More seriously, I am unironically the asshole whose favorite Pokemon are OU stars like Ferrothorn, Dragapult, Greninja, Starmie, Gliscor, Aegislash, the works. I like super cool and strong-looking mons. It's a lot harder for me to get hyped up about using like... Venomoth, you know?
I pretty much only play with mons I actively enjoy using; namely "strong" lines which feel like they were still intended within the reasonable idea of game balance. Which is why I really don't enjoy using Legendaries/Paradoxes, they feel way too intentionally over-tuned for using them to feel like a meaningful accomplishment.
 
Do not slander the lord's name in vain (Lord venomoth). But honestly I agree, as ferrothorn is one of my top 5 favourite pokemon.
Jokes aside venomoth is one of the examples of pokemon that got better throughout the generations, with its peaks being banned from Gen 6 UU while baton pass was around and being actually great in both Gen 5 and 7 UU. I've even had some good success with it in this gen RU, as with wonder skin you can easily set up on wo chien.
It's not a slight against how good those mons are in the lower tiers. I know Venomoth started doing some serious work once it got Quiver Dance. I just visually like the appeal of big coolguy tough looking mons with bigger numbers.
 
Are there any plans to have 3D models soon for gen 9 on showdown? I'm sure the developers who maintain the site are busy but it's been almost a year now and we're still looking at static images for a lot of mons.. I don't recall it taking nearly this long for gen 7 or 8. Just wondering
 
Are there any plans to have 3D models soon for gen 9 on showdown? I'm sure the developers who maintain the site are busy but it's been almost a year now and we're still looking at static images for a lot of mons.. I don't recall it taking nearly this long for gen 7 or 8. Just wondering
i'm guessing there's some fucked-up eldritch tangle of code that no one can figure out how to chop through to get to the 3d model files. you have to remember, this is game freak, the entire game is made of spaghetti code
 
It's not a slight against how good those mons are in the lower tiers. I know Venomoth started doing some serious work once it got Quiver Dance. I just visually like the appeal of big coolguy tough looking mons with bigger numbers.
Hey don't worry, I was just joking about the slander. I do get the appeal of those mons and I do completely agree as my monkey brain goes "bigger numbers = cooler".
 

Cheryl.

Celesteela is Life
Are there any plans to have 3D models soon for gen 9 on showdown? I'm sure the developers who maintain the site are busy but it's been almost a year now and we're still looking at static images for a lot of mons.. I don't recall it taking nearly this long for gen 7 or 8. Just wondering
This question is better meant for the Custom 3D Animated Renders thread (its in Smeargle Studio) but to answer, they're working on it. Slowly, but they have an actual team working on making quality models now. A couple of Gen 9 mons actually got their 3D models recently (Scovillain and Arboliva lines) so progress is still happening, but it likely won't be complete until 2024.
 
Hello,
Does anyone know a reliable answer to this Iron Moth set?
View attachment 560916
I just feel like you have to sack your bulky poison (e.g pex or glowking) to force the tera, and then revenge kill with rillaboom or something, or let something die and revenge with booster val psyshock. Either way, I feel like you gotta let something die, unless you're running Alolo/Bliss stall lol.
I find iron moth a very tricky mon to face, does anyone know any good answers to these sets? Thanks in advance

I know ting-lu can manage non energy ball sets well, but its weak to toxic and val close combat and has no recovery outside of lefties so idk
unaware clodsire will force the tera on it. it cant 2hko you with tera blast or rack up boosts with fiery dance. and you deal about 40% with eq after it tera grounds. Usually its enough to scare moth out once it realises it cant kill you, which then wastes the booster energy
 

ausma

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For those that have played OU for more than one Gen, why do you like OU specifically? Is it simply because of the "higher average power" of the tier, or do you have a favourite that was/is consistently an OU mon?
I'm big on OU for a couple reasons (not the favorite mon part. most of my favorites are bad):

First, I do vibe the most with the power level; I really enjoy piloting highly proactive and uniquely powerful Pokemon as it can be really rewarding in some contexts, or just satisfying in others.

The second and main reason actually comes down to the role compression seen in OU-level Pokemon. There are many top-tier Pokemon that gain insane usage through their ability to be splashable and blanket check many things; think Landorus-T, Zapdos, Great Tusk, etc. Because so many OU-caliber Pokemon can fundamentally be good glues by proxy of a great all-around profile, it's far easier for me as a builder to experiment with unexplored cores and Pokemon in OU where I can fill the necessities of a well-rounded team by having a few insanely reliable glue picks that can cover me to some degree in most matchups and leverage some experimentation. Top-tier glues can and do exist in any tier, but in OU, the power level is generally more dynamic and there are holistically more options to cover different weaknesses depending on what you're experimenting with.

To show you what I mean, and why I love OU over other tiers, here's an example of a team I built, and how/why I built it the way I did:

:rillaboom::sneasler::ceruledge::zapdos::samurott-hisui::great-tusk:

This is a team where I wanted to experiment with SD Sneasler and SD Rillaboom on the same team, since SD Rillaboom can be an absurdly good mid-game breaker that just so happens to help overwhelm Sneasler's most common checks. I also wanted to use Sash Ceruledge on this team since it, too, can be a great midgame breaker that also aids in the Clefable, Iron Moth, and Iron Valiant matchups, and AV Samurott is also a treat to use (and I wanted to mess with it too now that it has Flip Turn).

Zapdos and Great Tusk allow me to make a fun yet interesting team like this more freely because they just cover everything to some extent, and make this kind of structure able to actually do something at a higher elo. I've been hovering around 1800-1900 with this team while it was still being tinkered with. For reference: Great Tusk is removal, a decent offensive threat that blanket checks most physical threats of the tier, and Zapdos's all-around great defensive typing covers me into most things in general while granting me a good Special attacker, easy status spreading, and offensive pivoting. These two Pokemon are amazing and are glues that bind this team together in a way that makes it actually able to work because they're able to generally do a lot that's necessary to make a consistent team.

TL;DR: OU's power level is just ripe enough for me to enjoy more easily, but that power level in addition to being enjoyable to mess around in, leverages more interesting teambuilding and tier experimentation/growth by providing the format with higher-quality glues, while not being anything too powerful.
 
I'm big on OU for a couple reasons (not the favorite mon part. most of my favorites are bad ):

First, I do vibe the most with the power level; I really enjoy piloting highly proactive and uniquely powerful Pokemon as it can be really rewarding in some contexts, or just satisfying in others.

The second and main reason actually comes down to the role compression seen in OU-level Pokemon. There are many top-tier Pokemon that gain insane usage through their ability to be splashable and blanket check many things; think Landorus-T, Zapdos, Great Tusk, etc. Because so many OU-caliber Pokemon can fundamentally be good glues by proxy of a great all-around profile, it's far easier for me as a builder to experiment with unexplored cores and Pokemon in OU where I can fill the necessities of a well-rounded team by having a few insanely reliable glue picks that can cover me to some degree in most matchups and leverage some experimentation. Top-tier glues can and do exist in any tier, but in OU, the power level is generally more dynamic and there are holistically more options to cover different weaknesses depending on what you're experimenting with.

To show you what I mean, and why I love OU over other tiers, here's an example of a team I built, and how/why I built it the way I did:

:rillaboom::sneasler::ceruledge::zapdos::samurott-hisui::great-tusk:

This is a team where I wanted to experiment with SD Sneasler and SD Rillaboom on the same team, since SD Rillaboom can be an absurdly good mid-game breaker that just so happens to help overwhelm Sneasler's most common checks. I also wanted to use Sash Ceruledge on this team since it, too, can be a great midgame breaker that also aids in the Clefable, Iron Moth, and Iron Valiant matchups, and AV Samurott is also a treat to use (and I wanted to mess with it too now that it has Flip Turn).

Zapdos and Great Tusk allow me to make a fun yet interesting team like this more freely because they just cover everything to some extent, and make this kind of structure able to actually do something at a higher elo. I've been hovering around 1800-1900 with this team while it was still being tinkered with. For reference: Great Tusk is removal, a decent offensive threat that blanket checks most physical threats of the tier, and Zapdos's all-around great defensive typing covers me into most things in general while granting me a good Special attacker, easy status spreading, and offensive pivoting. These two Pokemon are amazing and are glues that bind this team together in a way that makes it actually able to work because they're able to generally do a lot that's necessary to make a consistent team.

TL;DR: OU's power level is just ripe enough for me to enjoy more easily, but that power level in addition to being enjoyable to mess around in, leverages more interesting teambuilding and tier experimentation/growth by providing the format with higher-quality glues.
yeah, those are pretty much the same reasons i like the tier. you can just do so much more here than you can in other tiers. even ubers and ag feel more constrained because of how unbalanced they are by their very nature. in ou, you can run banded spidops and if you're good enough and have the right kind of team support you can make it work

as a side note, whenever i read a post by an ou council member talking about how much they like ou i can't help but think of the "obama giving a medal to obama" meme
 

ausma

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is a Site Content Manageris a Top Social Media Contributoris a Top Artistis a Member of Senior Staffis a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Top Team Rater Alumnusis a Smogon Discord Contributor Alumnus
OU Forum Leader
as a side note, whenever i read a post by an ou council member talking about how much they like ou i can't help but think of the "obama giving a medal to obama" meme
in my defense i felt this way for p much all of last gen where i was only council for like...... 2 weeks near the end

this gen though i'm shameless. i think we've been doing a good job all things considered; it's been far and away the most communicative and open a council's been in smogon's history. aside from a couple of missteps here and there, i think the tier's on a good trajectory as it fields its growing pains and people get a grapple on the tier's main dynamics
 
Do not slander the lord's name in vain (Lord venomoth). But honestly I agree, as ferrothorn is one of my top 5 favourite pokemon.
Jokes aside venomoth is one of the examples of pokemon that got better throughout the generations, with its peaks being banned from Gen 6 UU while baton pass was around and being actually great in both Gen 5 and 7 UU. I've even had some good success with it in this gen RU, as with wonder skin you can easily set up on wo chien.
I prefer tinted lens bc u just run stab and coverage is optional
 
It still has many glaring flaws. Namely that what ever it wants to do, there usually is something else that does that thing significantly better and would be a better teamslot choice than.
Even memeing on Gliscor by taking away Poison Heal, why not use Skill Swap Ribombee?
You get a Pokemon that not only sets up Sticky Webs but also gives Gliscor some trouble along with preventing Magic Bounce from bouncing back Sticky Webs.
Skill swap is literally ass vs Gliscor, it just switches out into something else that doesn't mind Ribombee and is back to normal. Something Ribombee can do to it, which I don't see people talking about much, is Switcheroo Spcs or Scarf onto it
 
Skill swap is literally ass vs Gliscor, it just switches out into something else that doesn't mind Ribombee and is back to normal. Something Ribombee can do to it, which I don't see people talking about much, is Switcheroo Spcs or Scarf onto it
protect gliscor is really common, also toxic damage can rack up really quickly given how gliscor loves to switch in (and stay in) on weaker mons and physical attacker
 
in my defense i felt this way for p much all of last gen where i was only council for like...... 2 weeks near the end

this gen though i'm shameless. i think we've been doing a good job all things considered; it's been far and away the most communicative and open a council's been in smogon's history. aside from a couple of missteps here and there, i think the tier's on a good trajectory as it fields its growing pains and people get a grapple on the tier's main dynamics
you guys have been doing a fantastic job. first tera suspect was way too early, but i can't put the blame on the council alone there—a bunch of very loud and very angry people were demanding something be done about tera immediately or else (even though none of them actually ended up getting reqs). the volc decision was a little impulsive but i think it produced the right result in the end so i can't fault you guys for that either. aside from those, i solidly agree with all the tiering action that's been done so far. this gen has needed more action than any before it and the council has stepped up to the challenge in a major way. i give you guys shit sometimes but believe me when i say you have the official daddybuzzwole seal of approval, and i don't give that out to just anyone
 
protect gliscor is really common, also toxic damage can rack up really quickly given how gliscor loves to switch in (and stay in) on weaker mons and physical attacker
Who on earth is clicking protect while toxic is hurting them? The point is, Gliscor doesn't care about Skill Swap, it just switches out and gets Poison Heal back
 
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Who on earth is clicking protect while toxic is hurting them? The point is, Gliscor doesn't care about Switcheroo, it just switches out and gets Poison Heal back
mb, I wasn't specific enough. they click protect to block switcheroo from stealing toxic orb before poison heal activation and to avoid stun spore. Also, that one turn that gliscor takes 40% instead of healing 12% could be important if you play well because that's pretty significant chip.
 
mb, I wasn't specific enough. they click protect to block switcheroo from stealing toxic orb before poison heal activation and to avoid stun spore. Also, that one turn that gliscor takes 40% instead of healing 12% could be important if you play well because that's pretty significant chip.
It's true, I do this when I use Gliscor because the problem isn't losing the orb, it's gaining a choice item. It could be important but with how early Ribombee usually comes out it's usually not 40% (that's a Lot of toxic turns!) and usually relatively easy for Gliscor to get that HP back
 
It's true, I do this when I use Gliscor because the problem isn't losing the orb, it's gaining a choice item. It could be important but with how early Ribombee usually comes out it's usually not 40% (that's a Lot of toxic turns!) and usually relatively easy for Gliscor to get that HP back
I'm proposing a potential later game scenario, but yeah, that makes sense. I was really thinking of how I toxic'd a clef before and switch gweezing in and the clef lost 40%. It was really funny
 
you guys have been doing a fantastic job. first tera suspect was way too early, but i can't put the blame on the council alone there—a bunch of very loud and very angry people were demanding something be done about tera immediately or else (even though none of them actually ended up getting reqs).
Except for the 205 people who voted Action
 
Except for the 205 people who voted Action
Those who did vote action overwhelmingly voted for tera on preview rather than an outright ban. Whether you like it or not, tera would still be here regardless if a couple votes went in the other direction, it would just be a small modification. When the next suspect happens after the release of DLC2, put your money where your mouth is, get reqs, and vote ban. The arguments can stop. There's a reason there was a whole thread dedicated to it and a reason it is locked. Everything that has needed to be said has been said.
 
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