SPOILERS! Mysteries and Conspiracies of Pokemon

[Mex]

I can only assume Skrelp was decreased because by then there were now plenty of Dragon-types that getting the Dragon-type medal was no longer such a major accomplishment. When Swablu was released there was only the Dratini family, Horsea family, and then also added the Flygon and Bagon family (I'm assuming this, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong). There were so few Dragon-types they likely felt it would cheapen the medal if Swablu could be used to farm Dragon-types. But by the time of Gen VI? They would have added the Gabite family, Axew family, Druddigon, and Deino family. They were now plenty of Dragon-types, in addition to Noibat and Goomy also being added (or were to be added). It just wasn't worth being so gatekeepy anymore. Noibat being 400 is an oddity, but already being a Dragon-type I wonder it's another issue why it's so high, like maybe they were worried Boomburst was going to be so powerful?

In terms of other Dragons released when Swablu was, Rayquaza was introduced on the very same day as one of the absolute easiest raid bosses of the time, I remember people saying that Rayquaza was a more efficient way of farming the dragon medal than evolving Swablu, despite requiring a raid pass per encounter. Bagon was also released the same day, and Trapinch a couple weeks earlier, the only dragons as of Gen 3 unavailable at the time were the Latis which came about two months later

The big thing, though, was that they hosted a Dratini community day just over 2 weeks after Swablu's release, which was easily the best way to get the medal up to gold and made Swablu farming nowhere close to even a consideration for people who were able to play


For Noibat, it's still pathetically weak as a Noibat, and I'm fairly certain boomburst being too good was not a consideration with its normal typing being a major hindrance by default. It's probably just to do with it being a weak pokemon that's a major challenge in the main series to raise to evolution.

 

[QuentinQuonce]

I can only assume Skrelp was decreased because by then there were now plenty of Dragon-types that getting the Dragon-type medal was no longer such a major accomplishment. When Swablu was released there was only the Dratini family, Horsea family, and then also added the Flygon and Bagon family (I'm assuming this, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong). There were so few Dragon-types they likely felt it would cheapen the medal if Swablu could be used to farm Dragon-types. But by the time of Gen VI? They would have added the Gabite family, Axew family, Druddigon, and Deino family. They were now plenty of Dragon-types, in addition to Noibat and Goomy also being added (or were to be added). It just wasn't worth being so gatekeepy anymore. Noibat being 400 is an oddity, but already being a Dragon-type I wonder it's another issue why it's so high, like maybe they were worried Boomburst was going to be so powerful?

Disagree, Dragon is still majorly gatekept. The idea that it's "not worth gatekeeping it anymore" fails to account for newer players: they're not going to make it easy for someone who started playing yesterday to get a Gible just because a day-one player probably has hundreds of them.

Every Dragon has been intentionally extremely elusive following its release, particularly the pseudo-legends: Gible was incredibly rare until it had a community day, and even now is a very uncommon wild spawn; the same is true of Deino. Axew is not a psuedo-legendary but notoriously was one of the rarest Pokemon in the game until they put it in Go Fest then gave it a community day this year. Goomy is currently exceptionally rare in the wild and Jangmo-o is basically nonexistent: the current event starting today is a Dragon/Poison-themed one and Goomy is not a part of it at all while a single Jangmo-o is being hyped as the final reward from completing the free research quest.

For the others: Druddigon and Turtonator are only available through raids (likely to remain the case for years based on the precedent set by Absol, Mawile, Alolan Raichu, Galarian Weezing, Pancham, and others) while Noibat was nonexistent in the wild when it first debuted; for a good couple of years it was something you'd be extremely lucky to see and usually late at night to boot. Trapinch, Horsea, and Skrelp are all highly uncommon species - of all the non-Dragons that evolve into one Swablu is, as I said, the most common but has the massive evolution cost to offset that. The fact that Applin may also have the same evolution cost indicates that this is something that will be maintained going forward.

I've actually found Tyrunt fairly abundant since its release, but that might be anecdotal - it's allegedly more common during the day, and Rock-boosting weather is extremely frequent where I live. Otherwise it's not unusual for me to go weeks without seeing a Dragon-type in the wild. The Dragon-type Team Rocket Grunt iirc has an appearance rate of less than 1% according to TSR's research.

Additionally, while a lot of rarer Pokemon start off in 10KM eggs and eventually get "downgraded" to lower-distance eggs (Mareep, Pineco, Eevee, Onix, Scyther, Pinsir, Sableye, Skarmory, Ralts, Feebas, et al) Dragon-types tend to stay in 10KM eggs except for events. These are the current 10KM pools, for reference - Horsea, Trapinch, Swablu, and Noibat are not currently in any eggs while Skrelp, of course, is in 12KM eggs.

 

[pika pal]

I can corroborate the Tyrunt encounter rate, I would usually see a handful by my house every week.

 

[Scorpio]

This was spurred on by, and a bit of a response to, IcyMan28 and his post in The Best and Worst Boss Fights, where he nominated the entirety of Johto’s League.

In the Cryptodex’s latest post, Aaron points out that the Johto roster was most likely in more-or-less constant flux right up to the end of development; as a consequence, they gave very few trainers the new Pokémon for ease of playtesting, as said new Pokémon could be drastically changed or outright replaced at any point. I’m inclined to believe this, and additionally believe this is the reason for the Johto League’s infamous teams, with GF being unable to fix them due to rushing GS out the door. To give just one example, I feel the reason Morty doesn’t have Misdreavus on his team is because the latter didn’t really exist until fairly late into ‘99, and even then was likely being retooled/had an uncertain future up until release.

tl;dr hindsight is 20/20

 

[R_N]

This was spurred on by, and a bit of a response to, IcyMan28 and his post in The Best and Worst Boss Fights, where he nominated the entirety of Johto’s League.

In the Cryptodex’s latest post, Aaron points out that the Johto roster was most likely in more-or-less constant flux right up to the end of development; as a consequence, they gave very few trainers the new Pokémon for ease of playtesting, as said new Pokémon could be drastically changed or outright replaced at any point. I’m inclined to believe this, and additionally believe this is the reason for the Johto League’s infamous teams, with GF being unable to fix them due to rushing GS out the door. To give just one example, I feel the reason Morty doesn’t have Misdreavus on his team is because the latter didn’t really exist until fairly late into ‘99, and even then was likely being retooled/had an uncertain future up until release.

tl;dr hindsight is 20/20

Oh nice someone else who keeps up with Cryptodex, his insights are very interesting (as are his biases, man he despises the gen 4 evolutions so much lol)

That said I'm less inclined to believe it completely because while it as in a lot of flux, there was also a lot of Pokemon that seemed way more set in stone but still don't really get distributed.
It makes perfect sense for no one to really have, say, Pineco to not be around for that reason but less so something like Hoothoot which while Noctwol was comparatively late addition was something they wanted around with a bullet. Same with Skarmory, which had been around for ages, was the poster child of being Steel type and not truly touched at all...and also barely anywhere. Certainly not the Steel Leader.

Gen 1 was kind of in a similar state as well, but as he points out even with someone like Lickitung it was all over the game at one point before being pulled back despite seemingly never being on the chopping block.


So its probably a reason but probably not the reason, basically.

 

[pika pal]

So this one might be speculation but can't think of any other place to post about it.

People are assuming for obvious reason that the Beast and Sword Trios will get a Paradox for each member per the upcoming DLC. On the other hand the Paradoxes are based on the Ultra Beasts and both sets play weird with a lot of Pokemon rules: What if they specifically leave the trios incomplete or reverse the last one to make Entei a Future and Terrakion a past Mon?

 

[Imperial Magala]

So this one might be speculation but can't think of any other place to post about it.

People are assuming for obvious reason that the Beast and Sword Trios will get a Paradox for each member per the upcoming DLC. On the other hand the Paradoxes are based on the Ultra Beasts and both sets play weird with a lot of Pokemon rules: What if they specifically leave the trios incomplete or reverse the last one to make Entei a Future and Terrakion a past Mon?

I'm more interested whether Ho-oh and Keldeo will appear in some capacity with the trios. After Legends: Arceus giving Dialga and Palkia Origin forms that resemble Arceus, it would feel weird to ignore Keldeo on the basis that it's a Mythical and not a Legendary.

 

[R_N]

I'm more interested whether Ho-oh and Keldeo will appear in some capacity with the trios. After Legends: Arceus giving Dialga and Palkia Origin forms that resemble Arceus, it would feel weird to ignore Keldeo on the basis that it's a Mythical and not a Legendary.

I'm going to guess no, but less because it's a Mythic, and more because the focus will be on the trios getting the paradoxes. It's not that they wanted the 4th connective tisue, it's that they wanted these three (six)

I think that if there's a "fourth paradox" it will be some strange instance of them merging together into the depiction in the Book.

Hide

not that this whole conversation is going to go anywhere, as i'm sure all 3 of us are aware of Khu's talk about how many Pokemon are in DLC2

 

[Pikachu315111]

I'm more interested whether Ho-oh and Keldeo will appear in some capacity with the trios. After Legends: Arceus giving Dialga and Palkia Origin forms that resemble Arceus, it would feel weird to ignore Keldeo on the basis that it's a Mythical and not a Legendary.

Keldeo may be excluded more because not that many people may even know it exists. The "Imagined Fused Pokemon" only contained elements of the Beast Trio and the three "founding" members of the Swords of Justice. Whatever reason these new Paradox Pokemon are appearing, they're being directly influenced by the image. Why they're three separate Pokemon instead of one fused one who knows, I could write theories all day but we wouldn't be any closer to the truth.

I'll throw out two theories

1. Going back to the exclusion of Keldeo, if indeed the creation of Paradox Pokemon are based on the thoughts of people, then it's not the drawing itself which are spawning these Legendary Paradoxes but the initial thoughts that created them. To create a general example of what Pokemon were like in Area Zero, the member of the Expedition Team thought of a group of Legendary Pokemon and combined them to make a fierce beast (Scarlet)/robotic being (Violet). Suicune, Raikou, & Entei and Virizion, Cabolion, & Terrakion, those were the Pokemon they were thinking of therefore those are the Pokemon which the Terastal Phenomenon got. So the member of Area Zero Expedition Team which drew the image may only knew of the Three Swords of Justice (heck, this was 800 years ago, Keldeo might not have existed period!).

2. As for why they aren't fused, could be because they're different species. Yes, they're very likely related to the members within their group in certain ways, but there's nothing like a pre-evolution which connects them. Let's take a look at the only fused Paradox: Iron Valiant. It's a fusion yes, but a fusion of a branched evolution. Here's a thought; what if Iron Valiant isn't a fusion of two beings, but rather was a Kirlia which the Terastal Phenomenon had evolved by incorporating both its evolutions (and being we're dealing with strange magic it wouldn't have to be just male Kirlia).

And thus, we get six separate Paradox Pokemon.

BONUS: While writing this I also came up with a theory why the major Paradox Pokemon were "relatives" of Cyclizar: Heath had a Cylizar which he took down with him and notably helped carry equipment (and probably some team members on occasion). Could, while the version's Professor was trying to summon Paradox Pokemon with their "time machine", open to any one that comes out (therefore not giving the Terastal Phenomenon anything to work off of), they one day had a stray thought that they wished they had a strong and loyal Pokemon companion like Heath's Cyclizar. Well, now with them thinking of a Pokemon, the Terastal Phenomenon combined a Cyclizar with the Professor's vision and made the 'Raidon appear from the time machine.
Note also around this time that Arven was born, so the Professor was also feeling a lot of joy which also seemed to have affected the first 'Raidon. Why do I say this? Because of the second. The Professor was able to summon the second 'Raidon after their spouse left with their son, and it didn't sound like an agreeable separation. Also creating the Professor AI which doubled productivity, these mix of thoughts of feelings (bitterness, ambition, a double of one) came to a head and was finally able to summon that other 'Raidon... except this was meaner and brash.

 

[R_N]

Keldeo may be excluded more because not that many people may even know it exists. The "Imagined Fused Pokemon" only contained elements of the Beast Trio and the three "founding" members of the Swords of Justice. Whatever reason these new Paradox Pokemon are appearing, they're being directly influenced by the image. Why they're three separate Pokemon instead of one fused one who knows, I could write theories all day but we wouldn't be any closer to the truth.

I'll throw out two theories

1. Going back to the exclusion of Keldeo, if indeed the creation of Paradox Pokemon are based on the thoughts of people, then it's not the drawing itself which are spawning these Legendary Paradoxes but the initial thoughts that created them. To create a general example of what Pokemon were like in Area Zero, the member of the Expedition Team thought of a group of Legendary Pokemon and combined them to make a fierce beast (Scarlet)/robotic being (Violet). Suicune, Raikou, & Entei and Virizion, Cabolion, & Terrakion, those were the Pokemon they were thinking of therefore those are the Pokemon which the Terastal Phenomenon got. So the member of Area Zero Expedition Team which drew the image may only knew of the Three Swords of Justice (heck, this was 800 years ago, Keldeo might not have existed period!).

2. As for why they aren't fused, could be because they're different species. Yes, they're very likely related to the members within their group in certain ways, but there's nothing like a pre-evolution which connects them. Let's take a look at the only fused Paradox: Iron Valiant. It's a fusion yes, but a fusion of a branched evolution. Here's a thought; what if Iron Valiant isn't a fusion of two beings, but rather was a Kirlia which the Terastal Phenomenon had evolved by incorporating both its evolutions (and being we're dealing with strange magic it wouldn't have to be just male Kirlia).

And thus, we get six separate Paradox Pokemon.

BONUS: While writing this I also came up with a theory why the major Paradox Pokemon were "relatives" of Cyclizar: Heath had a Cylizar which he took down with him and notably helped carry equipment (and probably some team members on occasion). Could, while the version's Professor was trying to summon Paradox Pokemon with their "time machine", open to any one that comes out (therefore not giving the Terastal Phenomenon anything to work off of), they one day had a stray thought that they wished they had a strong and loyal Pokemon companion like Heath's Cyclizar. Well, now with them thinking of a Pokemon, the Terastal Phenomenon combined a Cyclizar with the Professor's vision and made the 'Raidon appear from the time machine.
Note also around this time that Arven was born, so the Professor was also feeling a lot of joy which also seemed to have affected the first 'Raidon. Why do I say this? Because of the second. The Professor was able to summon the second 'Raidon after their spouse left with their son, and it didn't sound like an agreeable separation. Also creating the Professor AI which doubled productivity, these mix of thoughts of feelings (bitterness, ambition, a double of one) came to a head and was finally able to summon that other 'Raidon... except this was meaner and brash.

That's a very interesting read on the Raidon behaviors, actually. I think you're onto something with that, and I think that also feeds into why the Paradoxes in general are so aggressive as a whole (Flutter Mane is the only one with the "Curious" behavior iirc, the others vary between outright agression once spotted to stancing up). Heath's exploration team went in expecting strong monsters and then got spooked by "donphan"* and that sounds like it probably just caused what was probably a feedback loop.
Meanwhile, look at what Sada/Turo had to go off of for their whole lives of obsession: the Book talking about these unusual fierce monsters, and the tabloids that exaggerate all those behaviors even more. Ko/Miraidon didn't have nearly that much written to that extent, so it makes sense for there to be more variance too; alternatively maybe the first few paradoxes were also kinder....



Though I will note that the raidons did exist in Heath's time as well. Aside from them being on the book's cover, Heath's expedition team had encountered it at some point and named them Winged King/Iron Serpent.
I'm glad that the last big teaser for the final leg of the DLC focused on the Book, because I hope that means we might get to read more pages of it. Seems like a good way to learn more about our lizards, among other things. I still don't want to fully write off the idea that a time machine is involved in some (a mix of both these are imagined pokemon but also they're still being pulled from say Heath's era) way, so who knows, maybe we literally learn about our lizard.



*While it's...shaky, I admit, I do kind of wonder if the initial attack was literally a big donphan but everything was so sudden they thought it was more monstrous. The photo is the one paradox photo that we get to see and its framed like a cryptid sighting which are often blurry photos kind of obscuring what's actually there. Iron Treads' photo is what makes this a shakier idea, since you can see more iron to it, but it does feel like the idea of "they saw a donphan and freaked out it was a monster" is meant to be there.

 

[Ironmage]

Another bit of timeline weirdness relating to Heath's expedition and the referenced legendary trios: it occurred 200 years before the main games, but the Beasts' origin story (the burning of the Brass Tower) is listed as being only 150 years before the Johto games. In other words, unless SV are at least 50 years after Johto, there's a real possibility that the Beasts as we know them did not exist when the expedition member drew the fusion of them.

 

[R_N]

Another bit of timeline weirdness relating to Heath's expedition and the referenced legendary trios: it occurred 200 years before the main games, but the Beasts' origin story (the burning of the Brass Tower) is listed as being only 150 years before the Johto games. In other words, unless SV are at least 50 years after Johto, there's a real possibility that the Beasts as we know them did not exist when the expedition member drew the fusion of them.

I think this is the first time I've seen anyone bring up that bit of the timeline when talking about the Paradoxes...honestly kind of think Gamefreak also forgot about it. There's some wiggle room if we start throwing around "approximate" times instead of exact times, but I don't think SV really can be that far in the future since that'd probably age out a large portion of the cast and I doubt they're gonna do that.

Although, I suppose if we want to try explaining it away... the drawings being a fusion could be an in-universe coincidence. There's no guarantee the survey team, even if it had been 100 years ago instead, had necessarily heard about the Beasts or Musketeers. It's already a bit odd that they drew this "merged" beast but is producing desperate parts. & the paradoxes we get in Indigo Disk could in fact be relatively recent, either based on "our" perceptions or the Professor's. We see these weird beast drawings and interpreted them as something different, and then a domino effect happens...something to that effect.



...But honestly probably just a goof on their parts.

 

[Imperial Magala]

There's a third option in that the Johto Beasts born from the fire weren't unique and there are multiples of them, with only the ones from the tower fire being story important for the Johto games. Multiple Pokedex entries state that Entei is born from volcanic eruptions, not Ho-oh, so there's already are some leeway.

 

[Coronis]

There's a third option in that the Johto Beasts born from the fire weren't unique and there are multiples of them, with only the ones from the tower fire being story important for the Johto games. Multiple Pokedex entries state that Entei is born from volcanic eruptions, not Ho-oh, so there's already are some leeway.

Besides - they were clearly alive pre Burnt Tower - that’s just the story of Ho-oh resurrecting them.

Though the Scarlet Paradoxes are noted as Ancient Versions of Pokemon - Walking Wake and Raging Bolt could just be the versions of the beasts that were alive pre-resurrection, i.e their original forms before Ho-oh made them stronger and sleeker and more modern.

 

[Imperial Magala]

Besides - they were clearly alive pre Burnt Tower - that’s just the story of Ho-oh resurrecting them.

Though the Scarlet Paradoxes are noted as Ancient Versions of Pokemon - Walking Wake and Raging Bolt could just be the versions of the beasts that were alive pre-resurrection, i.e their original forms before Ho-oh made them stronger and sleeker and more modern.

Ignoring whether Paradox are real or imagined concepts come to life, 150 years ago is the same timeframe as Legends: Arceus, so they would have been more modern than ancient. Plus we do have general shape of the beasts pre-resurrection.

Also Walking Wake would have lost 10 points from BST into Suicune. I'm taking the Doylist approach and saying that the reason the Johto Beasts were chosen were as a foil to the Swords of Justice as all 6 of them are quadruped beasts that changed in different ways. Not that being living contradictions is a fault to Paradox Pokemon, it's part of their lore.

 

[Coronis]

Ignoring whether Paradox are real or imagined concepts come to life, 150 years ago is the same timeframe as Legends: Arceus, so they would have been more modern than ancient. Plus we do have general shape of the beats pre-resurrection.
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Also Walking Wake would have lost 10 points from BST into Suicune. I'm taking the Doylist approach and saying that the reason the Johto Beasts were chosen were as a foil to the Swords of Justice as all 6 of them are quadruped beasts that changed in different ways. Not that being living contradictions is a fault to Paradox Pokemon, it's part of their lore.

lol - for some reason I was thinking of them as 570 BST - I forgot about the 590 BST ones. Makes sense that Ho-oh couldn’t quite revive them at “full” power though.

 

[Hugin]

I always liked the "Raikou/Entei/Suicune were Jolteon/Flareon/Vaporeon originally" theory. Which could mean that the Legendary Beasts are some sort of fundamental supermon shape that, when the Area 0 expedition encountered "scary Jolteon" it came out with stripes and an association with storms, and when Ho-Oh supercharged a dead Jolteon it gets stripes and an association with storms. The natural endstate for an Eeveeloution given power is an African animal with good hair and big claws/teeth.

 

[ZB7]

No idea whether this place is the greatest place for theories but humour me a little won’t you?

I have a very simple theory on why Koraidon/Miraidon are the strongest paradox Pokemon. Basically, it’s said in Scarlet and Violet that the real Professor Sada/Turo had the book of either version ever since they were little. My theory is that the reason why the Raidons are the strongest paradoxes basically boils down to that theory (which is becoming less and less of a theory with Teal Mask context) about the Pokémon of Area Zero being conjured up imaginations.

Heath, the author of the Version Book, had a Cyclizar. I think it’s entirely plausible that due to the fixation the Professors always had on the book and Heath’s findings, that when they first used the Time Machine, the representation of their reason for their drive and work so far essentially manifested itself as Koraidon/Miraidon, a past or future version of Heath’s partner Pokemon, and as such as the manifestation of Sada/Turo’s imagination and emotion, is extremely strong.

I really like this theory because I’m a sucker for physical manifestations of implied feelings in a plot, and because it makes sense to me.

As for the second Koraidon/Miraidon, it could also be a representation of their feelings after throwing themselves into their research after the Father/Mother walked out on the Professor and Arven. In the 4th lab, the book pages lay bare to their feelings after that, where they are feeling overworked and frustrated that no one is there to help with their research, leading to them creating the AI professor, but the midst of that conflict within themselves stimulates through the Time Machine another, though far more temperamental and ferocious than the first, Koraidon/Miraidon.

I don’t know if there’s anything that contradicts these theories, but regardless, I think it’s very fun to think about.

(This post did not need to be as long as it is but if you read it, thank you.)

 

[R_N]

Someone else here had a very similar theory, though Koraidon/Miraidon would presumably be based on the Winged King/Iron Serpent mentioned in the book.

Still I think it is pretty close to it, just swap Cyclizar for the "actual" Koraidon/Miraidon
First aidon was right after the happy birth of the child, the research team was still together, they were making great progress on everything. As such its basically a big strong puppy fueled by surrounding emotions and also the book's write ups of the critter. It was the first pulled through so while the others are probably filtered through the tabloids and more dangerous book write ups, it as probably more influenced like you say

Second aidon was right after the spouse left, the team seemed to have dwineled down dramatically and the professor was likely in the process of being estranged from Arven. And then it's a much more territorial, dangerous animal far more in line with most other Paradoxes.


It also makes me wonder what Heath's write ups for the pair were like. Briar never sees our lizard in Teal Mask, so I bet we see those pages later on.



Related to this, I wonder if Flutter Mane might have been pulled through early on. Of the paradoxes it's actually fairly nonviolent; it has the overworld behavior where it doesn't really notice you and if it does it'll just sort of wander near by and not attack. Most others at least stance up if they don't just chase you outright.
Though that doesn't really have a corresponding Future comparison, iirc they're all pretty aggro. Even the "nice" once, Iron Thorns just chase syou instantly like Sandy Shocks does.

 

[Ironmage]

Related to this, I wonder if Flutter Mane might have been pulled through early on. Of the paradoxes it's actually fairly nonviolent; it has the overworld behavior where it doesn't really notice you and if it does it'll just sort of wander near by and not attack. Most others at least stance up if they don't just chase you outright.
Though that doesn't really have a corresponding Future comparison, iirc they're all pretty aggro. Even the "nice" once, Iron Thorns just chase syou instantly like Sandy Shocks does.

I actually think of that behavior as more linked to Mane being (intended to be) active only at night. It's entirely possible that other Paradox mons have had time to acclimate to Area Zero and just happen to be territorial. Mane is by necessity letting other creatures roam around at least half the time, so it makes sense that it wouldn't consider a new face to be implicitly confrontational. (and, on a more meta note, the night-only thing seems to indicate there's at least some change to the behavior scripts compared to the other Paradoxes.

 

[BIG ASHLEY]

Of the paradoxes it's actually fairly nonviolent;

ironic that the paradox mon currently tearing up the comp scene is the most peaceful in-game

 

[ZB7]

All this Paradox poke talk made me realize that the time machine is just a gacha

"5 STAR SHINY FLUTTER MANE PULL FROM TIME MACHINE!!!"

 

[Hugin]

I actually think of that behavior as more linked to Mane being (intended to be) active only at night. It's entirely possible that other Paradox mons have had time to acclimate to Area Zero and just happen to be territorial. Mane is by necessity letting other creatures roam around at least half the time, so it makes sense that it wouldn't consider a new face to be implicitly confrontational. (and, on a more meta note, the night-only thing seems to indicate there's at least some change to the behavior scripts compared to the other Paradoxes.

(and, on a more meta note, the night-only thing seems to indicate there's at least some change to the behavior scripts compared to the other Paradoxes.

Nope. It's actually really dumb. So, the game normally spawns mons based on some complicated mess involving checks for spawn locations, encounter tables, sandwiches, time of day, etc. But in Area 0 time of day is disabled. So instead the game spawns Flutter Mane like normal, then does another pass deleting all of them. This means that when the area loads, you can see Flutter Mane flicker into existence, if you have Ghost 3 Encounter the whole area is barren(because all the spawns were replaced and then deleted), and shiny hunting is hilarious. This is IIRC the only mon where this happens, and is clearly a desperate hack to maintain their "ghosts only come out at night" thing for some reason.

 

[R_N]

Nope. It's actually really dumb. So, the game normally spawns mons based on some complicated mess involving checks for spawn locations, encounter tables, sandwiches, time of day, etc. But in Area 0 time of day is disabled. So instead the game spawns Flutter Mane like normal, then does another pass deleting all of them. This means that when the area loads, you can see Flutter Mane flicker into existence, if you have Ghost 3 Encounter the whole area is barren(because all the spawns were replaced and then deleted), and shiny hunting is hilarious. This is IIRC the only mon where this happens, and is clearly a desperate hack to maintain their "ghosts only come out at night" thing for some reason.

Oh yeah I saw a video of someone hunting the Flutter Manes. The ideal is you do it in the day time after popping a sanwich then just stand around waiting for the Flutter Mane to constantly spawn and despawn until the shiny remains

It is very funny.

 

[Pikachu315111]

Another bit of timeline weirdness relating to Heath's expedition and the referenced legendary trios: it occurred 200 years before the main games, but the Beasts' origin story (the burning of the Brass Tower) is listed as being only 150 years before the Johto games.

honestly kind of think Gamefreak also forgot about it. There's some wiggle room if we start throwing around "approximate" times instead of exact times, but I don't think SV really can be that far in the future since that'd probably age out a large portion of the cast and I doubt they're gonna do that.

Although, I suppose if we want to try explaining it away... the drawings being a fusion could be an in-universe coincidence. There's no guarantee the survey team, even if it had been 100 years ago instead, had necessarily heard about the Beasts or Musketeers. It's already a bit odd that they drew this "merged" beast but is producing desperate parts. & the paradoxes we get in Indigo Disk could in fact be relatively recent, either based on "our" perceptions or the Professor's. We see these weird beast drawings and interpreted them as something different, and then a domino effect happens...something to that effect.

Another theory: The Terastal Phenomenon placed the "knowledge" (or at least their appearance) of the Beasts & Justices into the artists head. Because, timeline aside, it is odd that the artist thought the best way to represent their idea was by merging a Legendary Trio. Also, though they said the drawing Paradox was imagined, if it was purposely a merging of a Trio I feel they would have also mentioned it. But no, all it said was "The size and ferocity/compactness and cruelty of the strange Pokémon that dwell in Area Zero's lower reaches tickled the artist's imagination, prompting this sketch of what other species that inhabit these depths might look like".

While I hold the belief that the Paradox Pokemon aren't from the past/future but a creation of one's vision of it (whether it be the Professor or the Expedition Team), I also do believe the Terastal Phenomenon does have some time warping power (or, because its imagined that it can, it does). So when the artist was thinking of what Pokemon to draw to represent the "size and ferocity/compactness and cruelty" of a Paradox Pokemon, something to "WOW" whoever looked at it, the Terastal Phenomenon "tickled" the artist's imagination with the images of the Beasts/Justices, Pokemon that either didn't exist or very few people even knew about, and unconsciously took parts of them apart and made the Imagined Paradox drawing. When they were done they probably thought "huh, who is that Pokemon? Well whatever it is it certainly looks like what I was thinking!".

And, while at that time the Paradox Legendary Trio wouldn't exist as no one would know that was what was drawn (thus the Terastal Phenomenon couldn't create them), jump to the present and no doubt the Professor who examined the Scarlet/Violet Book page-by-page would go "hey, that looks like a combination of the Beasts of Johto/Justices of Unova", and with that the Terastal Phenomenon had the Pokemon it could work on. As R_N said in another response: a feedback loop (which is what a paradox is).

Walking Wake and Raging Bolt could just be the versions of the beasts that were alive pre-resurrection

Even if you don't believe they were canines of some kind, I highly doubt their original forms were dinosaurs, kind of feel those would stand out. (This is neither here nor there, though I like the theory they were just the original Eeveelutions; a group which would make sense what they would become but still relatively ordinary Pokemon that no one would remember what they were).

As for why Generations showed them as canines, feel that was a sneaky callback to their beta designs (as well as obscuring what Pokemon they originally were, let some things remain a mystery).

Someone else here had a very similar theory

Yeah but that would require people to read my posts and I'm getting a sneaky suspicion no one does. *looks at the several posts about the "Fairy Feather finally existing" even though I made that joke already*

All this Paradox poke talk made me realize that the time machine is just a gacha

So what you're saying is that the Professor AI was REALLY lucky that when battling us they not only pulled different Paradox Pokemon each time but their sixth Pokemon was the one with 590. Professor AI should play the lottery.

This means that when the area loads, you can see Flutter Mane flicker into existence, if you have Ghost 3 Encounter the whole area is barren(because all the spawns were replaced and then deleted), and shiny hunting is hilarious.

Oh yeah I saw a video of someone hunting the Flutter Manes. The ideal is you do it in the day time after popping a sanwich then just stand around waiting for the Flutter Mane to constantly spawn and despawn until the shiny remains

It is very funny.