Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v2 [Update on Post #5186]

[Rootb]

Is it time to ride the Garganacl Ban Train again?

Everybody hop in, Choo Choo! *Train Whistle sounds*

Next Stop: Salt Cure is the most broken form of a "Poison Status" ever seen in Pokémon since it can't miss, it deals damage when hitting, said damage can be boosted by the ATK stat, it can hit SE, between turns damage is high, and between turns damage vs Water/Steel Pokémon is absurdly high-station

Buddy, Salt Cure isn't even the most powerful, counterable by an item, Rock-type move that Garganacl learns!

..is Salt Cure on a predicted switch in a type of hazard?

 

[Turtleye_]

i dont even think Salt Cure is the problem. Its ability Purifying Salt is. The fact that it is immune to all status makes it harder to beat. Throw on the fact it halves all ghost attack damage and we see why this ability is broken.

They are both contributing to Garg being good, you can't really isolate either of them bc they only exist on Garg ( and its prevos)

 

[ianlazerbeem]

LoseToRU? please shut the fuck up. You are providing nothing positive to the Tera circlejerk and are only feeding your own biases by constantly ad homing pro Tera people into being antagonistic, making it difficult (if not impossible) for actual discussion to take place.

Also, petitioning a moratorium on Tera as a topic so we can talk about literally anything else. It hasn't been going anywhere and won't until another test happens.

It's the single biggest problem affecting our tier right now and you don't want it to be discussed? The tier leader is Tweeting about Tera from a relatively critical standpoint, high level players are having very serious conversations about the future of the tier with the mechanic, and you're acting like it's an irrelevant discussion. You are ignoring the reality of the tier and the discussion around it because you want to "everything is fine" your way into keeping your favorite matchup fish mechanic.

LosetoRU takes harsh stances sometimes but I think he's a good player with a lot of knowledge and his perspective on this issue is valuable. We all get worked up and need to calm down sometimes, and it's easy to get there when you're making logical well reasoned points and getting the same "no, Tera is fun, sword shield bad" reply all the time

 

[Karxrida]

It's the single biggest problem affecting our tier right now and you don't want it to be discussed?

Yes. Because we've been going in circles on the topic for like weeks.

You are ignoring the reality of the tier and the discussion around it because you want to "everything is fine" your way into keeping your favorite matchup fish mechanic.

I have stated or implied multiple times that I don't believe Tera is completely fine as-is even if I like it and would be fine with Tera Preview. I just think the thread has become exhausting to read with the constant circlejerk and want a break.

 

[SnackWasTaken]

I respectfully have to disagree, I think before HOME the meta was the best its been in terms of competitiveness and healthiness the mons that were banned were out the tier and the questionable mons weren't overcentralizing like Volcarona, Garganacl, and Kingambit. The meta right now is a bit much and I feel like with a few bans it will look very tantalizing

I respectfully have to disagree with your disagreement. This may be extremely controversial and unpopular, but Pre-Home, in my opinion, was a slog because of two Mons: Kingambit and Great Tusk.
Starting with the controversial opinion. Great Tusk made games late into Pre-Home less fun because of its role compression. It could Knock, Spin, Stealth Rock, and EQ on a set. The solutions were also the same every time; Get a physical wall or a special attacker (which there weren’t too many of pre-HOME which was a problem on its own). Great Tusk was a dumb min-max mon that limited the diversity players added to their game. I don’t think people realize how unfun it was.
Kingambit was basically every endgame ever. Its ability, SO, made the endgame about predicting its Tera (a problem on its own) and required a blanket check to Kingambit and its Tera. I personally had been running scarf Pawmot since last December, so I didn’t have to worry about this. Others weren’t so lucky.
So, what was that unknown factor that made late Gen 9 unfun? Great Tusk’s role compression and Kingambit’s late game dominance.

 

[Rootb]

It's the single biggest problem affecting our tier right now and you don't want it to be discussed? The tier leader is Tweeting about Tera from a relatively critical standpoint, high level players are having very serious conversations about the future of the tier with the mechanic, and you're acting like it's an irrelevant discussion. You are ignoring the reality of the tier and the discussion around it because you want to "everything is fine" your way into keeping your favorite matchup fish mechanic.

LosetoRU takes harsh stances sometimes but I think he's a good player with a lot of knowledge and his perspective on this issue is valuable. We all get worked up and need to calm down sometimes, and it's easy to get there when you're making logical well reasoned points and getting the same "no, Tera is fun, sword shield bad" reply all the time

Oh, no, I know he's a fantastic player, but there's something to be said about a post's legibility, as well. Past a certain point, i'm just going to glaze over whatever you're writing, and it's not because I don't care - it's just so long, and so loosely organized, that it often appears as more of a manifesto than part of a discussion.

And (bolding mine), quite frankly, the way some people in this thread treat fun as an optional part of their leisure time is particularly telling. If you don't want your time spent on Showdown to be fun, I don't know what to tell you.

 

[Dioxidon]

I respectfully have to disagree with your disagreement. This may be extremely controversial and unpopular, but Pre-Home, in my opinion, was a slog because of two Mons: Kingambit and Great Tusk.

I don't understand why you are speaking in past tense as if HOME significantly changed this. Tusk is still the premier hazard removal, while being capable of fulfilling many other tasks. One of the more recent sets, booster speed, has arguably even increased his uses.
Kingambit still remains the beast he was. Many sets run encore almost exclusively to win the sucker games.

If you look at the current WCoP stats, which admittedly do still have a relatively low sample size, almost every team brings Tusk and Kingambit, with Dragapult as a third, which as far as I remember is pretty similar to before home. I personally doubt Kingambit will every really fall off, while hopefully Tusk usage will drop if we get more hazard removal options in dlc (surely)

 

[Magcargo]

So considering that Scald may be returning as a TM or Tutor Moves, we could see several other older moves also return as well. In particular, Defog would be really awesome to have as a returning move since it would give us a higher volume of viable hazard removers. Yes, Gholdengo blocks Defog, but there are quite a few Defoggers that would give it a run for its money (heh) like Lando-T and Volcanion. I could see Gholdengo making some wacky adaptations to check the widest array of Defoggers, like running Tera Water Air Balloon.

We don't know how, or even if the DLC will add Tutor / TM moves, but regardless, Scald is still in the discussion as a new TM move given that we saw Milotic use it. Might be a bit of a hot (heh) take, but I didn't think Scald was THAT bad in Gen 8 or 7 because burn's passive damage got cut in half. It absolutely did flip games and match-ups vs physical attackers, but it was arguably a necessary evil in combatting the plethora of OP set-up sweepers. Right now, we may need Scald to keep the evil Kingambit and Dragonite in check. In a vacuum, a Pokemon like Toxapex and Slowking are still largely nerfed from last gen due to lower Recover PP, Covert Cloak existing, and setup sweepers like Baxcalibur existing which don't care about burn. NGL tho, I do prefer a world w/o Scald since Bulky Waters are so much more exploitable & Pokemon like Dragonite and Gambit can use them as an opportunity to setup if they don't pack Ice Beam, but if just Scald returned, I don't think the meta would be worse off. I thought Knock Off and Toxic were much worse moves for competitive because using these moves were completely riskless, had extremely high distribution, and guarenteed certain Pokemon made progress regardless of the MU.

I know baseless speculation is normally off the table, but I don't care about the rules!

 

[MrE]

• Tera is complex and it takes more than 2-3 sentences to illustrate the nuances
• Never implied any player was stupid
• Literally zero ad-hom in that post
• Not on a high hose- have said in this forum I'm a casual, barely above average player several times

If you know about logical fallacies such as ad-hom then I assume you know what a straw-man argument it.

Everything you quoted serves a purpose to the argument:

"First of all, I hope you weren't trying to impress anyone lol"

Dude posted a random HO team and said he hit 2k, implying that he's good and knows what he's talking about, as if that gives weight to his argument. I'm highlighting that it does not give his argument the weight he thinks it does.

"Anyway, as soon as I saw the smug "aha notice something?" I knew this one was going to be fun."

Classic pro-tera "gotcha" moments such as "notice something??" are going to make me laugh every time.

"Tera got yall's brains so fried you forgot how to play the game."

Instead of building a better team, players are relaying on Tera- at the very least, this player does

" t's really irritating how dismissive some tera thumpers are when it comes to these players, especially the lower skilled, more casual ones- and extra annoying when they start talking out their ass about Water Lando."

I've been saying for months I advocate for many casual, lower skill players.

"L take"
Yeah, that is goofy shit. Someone saying they aren't having fun and dudes response is calling them a loser.

Pro-tera players often imply anyone who has an issue w tera needs to l2p, git gud, etc.
Actively belittling ppl, saying "L take", is going to elicit a response w that same energy.
No need to white-knight someone who was shitting on someone my dude.

Toxic positivity is very real, and unconstructive for a proper debate.



Again, for the hundredth time, never said I was amazing or even great.

Have actively said, at least 15 times, that if you like tera, and you say you like it because it's fun, I respect your opinion and you as a player.

When someone starts talking game theory, or gets deeper than that, then that's grounds for a conversation/debate.

Not that it matters, but the laugh reactions are literally from the same 3-6 forum lurkers who don't even read them.
A lot of my recent anti-tera posts are far more positive reactions, even with those dedicated laugh reactors factored in.

Again, this would be "appeal to popularity" logical fallacy, but I guess I'll take the bait.
View attachment 528474

When I was trying to make a non-tera chat room on PS! where we would host non-tera tours, I had to take some steps first. I gathered about 50 players to sign up and say they are interested in a non-tera OU room within 3 days of just asking OU chat. I also had an OU room owner and several OU room staff members on this list, as that was needed as well to put in an application for a custom chat room.

It got denied because, "it's not the right time" and even though that was p bullshit, I've moved on.

The main point is, within 2-3 days I found 50+ ppl who are interested in playing SV without the gimmick.

Every straw-man post, every random laugh react, I think of those ppl.

At times I've come across poorly and have to apologize for how others have perceived it, and if things come off too harsh then I'm the first to admit I could have chosen better words, but that's what happens when someone is passionate. I'm a person just like you who makes mistakes, but I honestly think that post was tame and relatively civil, so personally, I think you need to relax.

Also, kinda hard to not notice none of the actual points get addressed.

I've said this before, but I need to stop doing any banter, funny comments, or really anything that's not pure data or it gets overshadowed by the 1-2 controversial things I say.

Instead of focusing on how much tera increases the MU fish and how defensive Tera is barely an argument, which was the main goal of my post, that's going to get ignored cuz I wasn't as polite as I could have been.

That's a lesson I really need to learn.

Random post, but imma run a Hisuian Avalugg calc real quick
4 Atk Strong Jaw Avalugg-Hisui Ice Fang vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Multiscale Dragonite: 270-318 (83.5 - 98.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 Atk Avalugg-Hisui Mountain Gale vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Multiscale Dragonite: 276-326 (85.4 - 100.9%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
A 2% power difference in exchange for a lesser flinch chance, more accuracy, more PP, a small freeze chance

And no Sturdy. Personally I like Sturdy more than Strong Jaw, but it can definitely work. also I cooked Hisuian Avalugg the day it dropped WAAAAAY before Morkoal's post about it but who cares It's actually a really good wall with having 127 attack making it a decent enough attacker. Ice Fang/Mountain Gale, Earthquake, Crunch and Body Press all handle the main physical sweepers in the tier, and Sturdy + Mirror Coat is an option against things like Gholdengo and other non Dark-type special attackers (though this is a risky 1-for-1 trade).

I'm taking a break from OU to play Freedom Cup (the better OU) and Hisuian Avalugg is amazing as always. It should 100% get some more recognition because its not terrible at all.

That's all I got to say. Forum posts are based with your image and badges determining how many reacts you get. BUUUUUT I'm not being salty at all
View attachment 528508 View attachment 528506
I'll take what I can get I suppose, but it could be better

I got nothing else to say. I'll see yall after the Freedom Cup hype is gone or if it gets removed. With all that being said, goodbye

I have a lot of Haha reacts but that's because I am like, the biggest shitposter in this forum

Yeah I get hahas that are negative, but I also just have some of the biggest shitpost bangers in the threadView attachment 528511

actually kinda surprising how few Angries I've gotten. 1 in 225 of my reacts are Angry. Feel free to get that ratio up.

On a serious note, have y'all been trying to get Hoodra to work? I feel likeI can't because it either needs AV and gets fucked up by hazards, or it needs Boots and with the main Spatkers right now being Fairy/Fighting and a Fairy Type with Earth Power, it isn't as bulky as I'd want for a Pokemon with zero recovery.

How are you all seeing your total reactions? Also do people really view laughing reaction negatively? Funny posts are funny and funny posts are generally good imo.

Not played in the best part of a month due to being busy irl, anybody got a fun team to use?

 

[Mega Breloom]

So considering that Scald may be returning as a TM or Tutor Moves, we could see several other older moves also return as well. In particular, Defog would be really awesome to have as a returning move since it would give us a higher volume of viable hazard removers. Yes, Gholdengo blocks Defog, but there are quite a few Defoggers that would give it a run for its money (heh) like Lando-T and Volcanion. I could see Gholdengo making some wacky adaptations to check the widest array of Defoggers, like running Tera Water Air Balloon.

We don't know how, or even if the DLC will add Tutor / TM moves, but regardless, Scald is still in the discussion as a new TM move given that we saw Milotic use it. Might be a bit of a hot (heh) take, but I didn't think Scald was THAT bad in Gen 8 or 7 because burn's passive damage got cut in half. It absolutely did flip games and match-ups vs physical attackers, but it was arguably a necessary evil in combatting the plethora of OP set-up sweepers. Right now, we may need Scald to keep the evil Kingambit and Dragonite in check. In a vacuum, a Pokemon like Toxapex and Slowking are still largely nerfed from last gen due to lower Recover PP, Covert Cloak existing, and setup sweepers like Baxcalibur existing which don't care about burn. NGL tho, I do prefer a world w/o Scald since Bulky Waters are so much more exploitable & Pokemon like Dragonite and Gambit can use them as an opportunity to setup if they don't pack Ice Beam, but if just Scald returned, I don't think the meta would be worse off. I thought Knock Off and Toxic were much worse moves for competitive because using these moves were completely riskless, had extremely high distribution, and guarenteed certain Pokemon made progress regardless of the MU.

I know baseless speculation is normally off the table, but I don't care about the rules!

Weakness policy tera fire Dragonite to punish scald could be fun, but will be annoying having a lot of games decided on a 30% chance, at least dire claw just has one user and is harder to fit on some sets while Sneasler itself is harder to put in teams compared to scald users.

 

[Lectrys]

Also for Anti-Tera I have my only stance against Tera being banned: Would it really change Team structures and Pokemon choices that much? I am certain that it will not change that much and it is only done so we have a repeat of Gen 8.

Of course it would. Way too often in Gen 9 Teams Of The Week, I see stuff like Double Ghost Double Ground or Double Steel Double Dark or even Triple Dark Double Ghost Double Ground Double Steel (no really, that was in Week 23). This weakness stacking is asking for trouble as long as you're not running hyper offence (along the lines of similarly getting your butt handed to you by some in-game opponents when you bring that kind of non-over-levelled team to them - my nephew loaded 5 mons weak to Ortega's Azumarill's STABs last week, and that Azumarill KOed the only non-weak on my nephew's team, Corviknight - he admittedly brought a Triple Dragon Double Fire Double Ghost Double Flying team).

Unfortunately, the best Gen 8 comparison point I can find is the Team Bazaar, but Double Type 1 Double Type 2 is a lot rarer there, let alone Double Type 1 Double Type 2 Double Type 3.

Tera is encouraging type and weakness stacking to no tomorrow by providing the promise of no longer stacking weaknesses quite so high.

 

[Magcargo]

Weakness policy tera fire Dragonite to punish scald could be fun, but will be annoying having a lot of games decided on a 30% chance, at least dire claw just has one user and is harder to fit on some sets while Sneasler itself is harder to put in teams compared to scald users.

Yeah. Adding on to the frustration is that Scald users are bulky letting them use the move multiple times, making it more *consistent* in practice. Toxapex that uses Scald twice is more likely to f over the opponent than Sneasler that uses Dire Claw once.

On the bright side, I could see the move being Combo'd with Tera for some cool strategies. Dragapult, for instance, could run Scald + Tera Water on its dual status set over Wisp to nuke Tusk, Ting-Lu, and Lando-T & spread status in one slot.

 

[artificialdeath]

How are you all seeing your total reactions? Also do people really view laughing reaction negatively? Funny posts are funny and funny posts are generally good imo.

Not played in the best part of a month due to being busy irl, anybody got a fun team to use?

It's the "reaction score" in the dropdown menu for your username. I think the haha react depends on the post itself. My most haha'd one is responding to someone asking what the stat spread/ability of gigachad is by just posting lando-t's spread/ability, so obviously I wouldn't be pissed abt that, but if it was on a serious post about Tera or the health of the metagame it could be seen as hostile.

 

[Mega Breloom]

Yeah. Adding on to the frustration is that Scald users are bulky letting them use the move multiple times, making it more *consistent* in practice. Toxapex that uses Scald twice is more likely to f over the opponent than Sneasler that uses Dire Claw once.

On the bright side, I could see the move being Combo'd with Tera for some cool strategies. Dragapult, for instance, could run Scald + Tera Water on its dual status set over Wisp to nuke Tusk, Ting-Lu, and Lando-T & spread status in one slot.

Sneasler technically also has two chances of haxing with dire claw the wall in the switching and then the turn after it, but still, a burned physical attacker is basically dead, while a paralyzed/poisoned wall still can do its job.

 

[Schpoonman]

So considering that Scald may be returning as a TM or Tutor Moves, we could see several other older moves also return as well. In particular, Defog would be really awesome to have as a returning move since it would give us a higher volume of viable hazard removers. Yes, Gholdengo blocks Defog, but there are quite a few Defoggers that would give it a run for its money (heh) like Lando-T and Volcanion. I could see Gholdengo making some wacky adaptations to check the widest array of Defoggers, like running Tera Water Air Balloon.

We don't know how, or even if the DLC will add Tutor / TM moves, but regardless, Scald is still in the discussion as a new TM move given that we saw Milotic use it. Might be a bit of a hot (heh) take, but I didn't think Scald was THAT bad in Gen 8 or 7 because burn's passive damage got cut in half. It absolutely did flip games and match-ups vs physical attackers, but it was arguably a necessary evil in combatting the plethora of OP set-up sweepers. Right now, we may need Scald to keep the evil Kingambit and Dragonite in check. In a vacuum, a Pokemon like Toxapex and Slowking are still largely nerfed from last gen due to lower Recover PP, Covert Cloak existing, and setup sweepers like Baxcalibur existing which don't care about burn. NGL tho, I do prefer a world w/o Scald since Bulky Waters are so much more exploitable & Pokemon like Dragonite and Gambit can use them as an opportunity to setup if they don't pack Ice Beam, but if just Scald returned, I don't think the meta would be worse off. I thought Knock Off and Toxic were much worse moves for competitive because using these moves were completely riskless, had extremely high distribution, and guarenteed certain Pokemon made progress regardless of the MU.

I know baseless speculation is normally off the table, but I don't care about the rules!

Moves that break the type chart (Scald and Thousand Arrows) are incredibly stupid and should stay out of the game outside signature moves.

 

[ianlazerbeem]

Would it be too out of the question to just have a no-tera ladder if casuals are so adamant about keeping it?

the casuals can play natdex AG

 

[DaemonChop]

all those darn casuals that got voting reqs!

 

[ayevon]

all those darn casuals that got voting reqs!

this but unironically

 

[awyp]

Also, LoseToRU is a member who has consistently derailed this thread into pointless Tera arguments like literally weekly and is constantly doing insulting and bad faith arguments I have no idea what the goal is here

I won't let you drag LoseToRUs good name to the dirt, they bring light-hearted conversations that need to be had about the controversial tera mechanic. There's no derailing of any sort, as the council has brought up before tera re-test is in the work after the WCop.

The insults I can't defend tho

 

[Alternator]

Also, LoseToRU is a member who has consistently derailed this thread into pointless Tera arguments like literally weekly and is constantly doing insulting and bad faith arguments I have no idea what the goal is here

Regardless what you think of another poster or their actions, flame baiting them out of the blue is inappropriate. Can we go back to attacking people's points, rather than the people themselves?

 

[RoyalDispenser]

Anyway;

IMO suspect order should be:

1) Tera

Tera is an inevitable test we have to do regardless, the sooner the better as we're just going to keep doing suspects around it (such as kingambit, volc, and likely more on the horizon). Doing them first basically means if those test result in ban they're a complete waste of time if tera ends up banned anyways and unbans all of them. Its easier to suspect test mons with a definitive environment in mind rather than theory monning 'what ifs' and waste months of procrastinating if the bigger picture is the issue or if the mons in a vaccum are. Even discussion is bottle-necked around tera's existance being the main influencer not accepting this is the final state of OU in gen 9 and that a ban could be on the horizon, it'd be easier to lay the topic of tera to rest.

Suspect ladder for tera should be a separate ladder without tera, not a permanant 2nd ladder, just one to get reqs on with tera disabled so we can see what a tera-less meta looks like, sweeten the pot with some unbans too during this test while we're at it.

2)

Was too controversal the way it was banned, bad enough not even agreed upon unanimously that it was worth banning in the first place which makes quick bans look bad in general. Quick banning was often reserved for blatantly undeniably broken mons, volc wasn't one of those evidence by how long its been in the tier this gen with not much changed bar moveset restrictions (being forced to run tera water/ground to not be completely stonewalled by heatran, which some view as volc bypassing its checks but reality is it restricts it versatility). The test needs to happen not even to prove pro or anti-ban right but because by principle the way it went out goes against the precedent of what council voting quick bans are supposed to be, emergency situations. Its silly this wasn't just 'undone' and suspected later, but regardless there's legitimate reasons to keep volc in the tier as it did have positive effects on checking certain mons. Almost not one is mentioning how volc leaving has changed anything as they're still pressured to teambuild without volc as an option for the other threats, making its departure rather placebo/negative.

Not to mention everything that lead to volcs ban just looks fishy as fuck.

- 50 survey mentions but no tera test in sight for the 200 mentions.. mentions mean 'look at' not 'ban' as in community would just like you to look at it indepth and possibly suspect.

- 0-9 to 7-2 is a really sudden decision swap

- the timing of the ban couldn't have been worse with WCOP, it was if the ban itself got rushed for it in mind and not rationally thought through.

Only way it could've possibly been handled worse is if 1 council member randomly said to disable it on their own.

3)

I personally don't think its as broken, but I'm a salty volcarona simp and if volcarona can get quick banned after 7 months I don't see why kingambit suddenly bypasses that with a free pass too. Kingambit with tera is equally as problematic except its kit isn't matchup fishy, it just is consistently good at what it does unlike volc which covers a pool of maybe 2 mons at once then fails at the rest. Again I really do not think kingambit is THAT bad but it is certainly next in line for randomness in tera. Personally I hate tera e-speed dragonite more forcing me to have a ghost type in teambuilder or a really fast scarfed to actually deal with dragapult who naturally outspeeds everything and can tera nuke a lot of mons.

 

[Mega Breloom]

2)

I'm still waiting to see what Volc's ban accomplished, there are not much changes on the usage of mons or sets on most of the teams with Volc gone, with Urshifu almost every team had to use either a bulky tera water mon, dozo or Amoonguss with helmet, now you see more variety on tera types and items so I would call it a good ban, but I have a lot of doubts with Volc's.

 

[MrE]

Anyway;

IMO suspect order should be:

1) Tera

Tera is an inevitable test we have to do regardless, the sooner the better as we're just going to keep doing suspects around it (such as kingambit, volc, and likely more on the horizon). Doing them first basically means if those test result in ban they're a complete waste of time if tera ends up banned anyways and unbans all of them. Its easier to suspect test mons with a definitive environment in mind rather than theory monning 'what ifs' and waste months of procrastinating if the bigger picture is the issue or if the mons in a vaccum are. Even discussion is bottle-necked around tera's existance being the main influencer not accepting this is the final state of OU in gen 9 and that a ban could be on the horizon, it'd be easier to lay the topic of tera to rest.

Suspect ladder for tera should be a separate ladder without tera, not a permanant 2nd ladder, just one to get reqs on with tera disabled so we can see what a tera-less meta looks like, sweeten the pot with some unbans too during this test while we're at it.

2)

Was too controversal the way it was banned, bad enough not even agreed upon unanimously that it was worth banning in the first place which makes quick bans look bad in general. Quick banning was often reserved for blatantly undeniably broken mons, volc wasn't one of those evidence by how long its been in the tier this gen with not much changed bar moveset restrictions (being forced to run tera water/ground to not be completely stonewalled by heatran, which some view as volc bypassing its checks but reality is it restricts it versatility). The test needs to happen not even to prove pro or anti-ban right but because by principle the way it went out goes against the precedent of what council voting quick bans are supposed to be, emergency situations. Its silly this wasn't just 'undone' and suspected later, but regardless there's legitimate reasons to keep volc in the tier as it did have positive effects on checking certain mons. Almost not one is mentioning how volc leaving has changed anything as they're still pressured to teambuild without volc as an option for the other threats, making its departure rather placebo/negative.

Not to mention everything that lead to volcs ban just looks fishy as fuck.

- 50 survey mentions but no tera test in sight for the 200 mentions.. mentions mean 'look at' not 'ban' as in community would just like you to look at it indepth and possibly suspect.

- 0-9 to 7-2 is a really sudden decision swap

- the timing of the ban couldn't have been worse with WCOP, it was if the ban itself got rushed for it in mind and not rationally thought through.

Only way it could've possibly been handled worse is if 1 council member randomly said to disable it on their own.

3)

I personally don't think its as broken, but I'm a salty volcarona simp and if volcarona can get quick banned after 7 months I don't see why kingambit suddenly bypasses that with a free pass too. Kingambit with tera is equally as problematic except its kit isn't matchup fishy, it just is consistently good at what it does unlike volc which covers a pool of maybe 2 mons at once then fails at the rest. Again I really do not think kingambit is THAT bad but it is certainly next in line for randomness in tera. Personally I hate tera e-speed dragonite more forcing me to have a ghost type in teambuilder or a really fast scarfed to actually deal with dragapult who naturally outspeeds everything and can tera nuke a lot of mons.

Fully agree that the Volc ban was bs, I really don't understand, there wasn't that much community crying about it either.

#freethemoth

 

[Athyestic]

there wasn't that much community crying about it either.

This is wild considering how the council members had to come out and say “don’t send us death threats” when the Volc ban happened. Like I agree that the process should have been different but saying there wasn’t much outrage is just not true.

 

[Rootb]

This is wild considering how the council members had to come out and say “don’t send us death threats” when the Volc ban happened. Like I agree that the process should have been different but saying there wasn’t much outrage is just not true.

I believe they're saying the opposite - that there wasn't that much outcry about Matchup Moth prior to it winding up on the radar. And while I do think that's true, it's largely because players had given up thinking it would get a proper test any time soon.