Something pro-ban people really need to do is explain how Ally Switch is worse than any other move.
I don't like how dismissive this post is but frankly the core message is true. It isn't that every time I load into a ladder game against Porygon2 or Tapu Lele I'm gonna start running a coinflip simulator, but that I'm conditioned into expecting other more common sets, and can very easily get punished by a swap freeing up something like Zygarde or Heatran to chunk my leads.
That is the real power of ally switch: it bites you most when you least expect it. It's just a pest that I'd rather have removed from the meta, one less thing to think about. Even if on a mathematical simulation of 100 games or whatever where ally switch doesn't put the user more ahead than their opponents, it will still rob a significant handful of games. I would be shocked if it gets the support it needs but I'm pretty happy to vote ban and put my mind at ease when I play SS Cup in classic next year.
Like in this instance, how is Ally Switch different from any other lesser used move / set? Ladder is well known for using stuff which will catch you out for expecting more common sets, Ally Switch is far from the worst in that regard. Factoring in the chance of your opponent using more unusual sets, and playing around worst-case scenarios as much as you can is a big part of the game and an important skill. The use of "
rob" is also a loaded term here to describe winning games (that you wouldn't otherwise) with Ally Switch. This again equally applies to other moves, where using it lets you win some games you could not without that move, the fundamental idea of teambuilding is comparing these deltas to determine what set choices will let your team win the most games. Ally Switch clearly isn't the best option in that regard, so what makes the wins from Ally Switch unearned in comparison to wins from using other moves? There will always be lesser used move options which will win certain games over the more standard option but lose more overall, losing to them might be annoying when you feel like you "should" have won but that doesn't make it banworthy.
First line is an extreme exaggeration and objectively incorrect for starters, I have zero clue where you got that from and would love for you to provide an example to back it up. And Ally Switch is different because it literally isn't a 50/50 the first time it's used. Unless you know the team beforehand or found out it had Ally Switch through like Transform or blocking it with Taunt, you cannot see it coming, giving total control of the situation to the Ally Switch user. This is usually made problematic due to the fact Ally Switch is seen most commonly used on teams that operate at a faster pace and can make that single turn go a long way, not to mention the further turns they can potentially get after the first use.
Mew is an ENTIRELY different thing as well, the immediate surprise factor is arguably similar, but once the Mew set is revealed it doesn't force 50/50s after it's revealed. In addition to that, Mew's sets don't have the same surprise factor I'd argue due to some sets being telegraphed on preview (i.e Mew on Psyspam most likely having Expanding Force) or just being scoutable at this point (SnarlWisp and Earth Power are the main two I'm thinking of). I already outlined why Ally Switch is different, so I won't say it again. Also the "guessing and rng" line isn't a very good argument, ideally we should strive for a metagame with as little as possible as both as long as the means to achieve it are reasonable (such as not modding the sim to ban flinches or something). I have, once again, zero clue where you got the idea that Pokemon is a game filled with guessing, but even ignoring that you can't just justify something being OK because there's a lot more things like it, that's like saying a politician being corrupt is a ok because a ton of other politicians are ok (this is a kind of logical fallacy iirc, just can't remember the specific name of it). Something promoting negative and undesirable aspects of a game isn't alright because other things also do that, if anything we should be trying to limit the things that cause those as much as possible.
Describing Pokemon as "
literally 50/50s the video game" was a bit simplistic (as practically anything talking about "50/50s" is) but I think I get what prim was trying to get at. Compared to say, Chess, there's a few key differences which set Pokemon aside: imperfect information, simultaneous turns, and the presence of RNG. The result of this is that in many situations, there is no singular "best move" like there is in Chess: rarely is there a play that perfectly covers everything your opponent can do, regardless of what sets they have and move they go for, or if RNG goes against you. More common is the case where there's several viable options, and you need to weigh them up based on how likely you think your opponent is to have certain sets, and how likely you think they are to go for certain moves. Seldom does this mean an exact 50/50, but it is true that Pokemon revolves around decision making points where there isn't simply a "correct" option, that's the nature of the game, and I would argue a defining aspect of it. Being able to play those turns right, and being able to recognise the cases where a seemingly "50/50" situation does actually have a "correct" choice is an integral part of player skill expression.
Typically you won't be fully expecting Ally Switch because it's a rarer move, but again that's the same with other lesser used stuff. I disagree though that you can only see it coming if it's been revealed, as with any move you should be aware of it to some extent from the outset, and particularly so in situations where it's one of your opponent's few outs. Deducing sets is an important skill, what moves a Pokemon has and hasn't used reveals valuable information about it's remaining set (e.g. a Pokemon doesn't use a typically carried move in a situation where it would be clearly the best move, hinting it's been dropped for something else like Ally Switch), team structure also leaves clues (like having setup, especially with no Follow Me / Rage Powder, could indicate Ally Switch), plays which don't make sense without the move in question should also raise your eyebrow (such as they have a threatened boosted Pokemon out, and on a free switch bring out a possible Ally Switch carrier instead of Fake Out). Scouting for Ally Switch can also be an option. It's not like you always know the Mew set but can never see an Ally Switch coming, and even if you do know the broad Mew set that doesn't mean you know it exactly, for example you may need to bank on what coverage move/s it has. Playing around set uncertainty is a big component of the game, especially in situations where different sets require completely different responses. I don't get the point about Ally Switch being different because of not being a 50/50 when first used, there's the same level of your opponent gauging if you have it or not that there is with other lesser used sets, and they can also have a big impact when revealed.
I also disagree about Ally Switch giving "
total control" of the situation. There's always the possibility for the opponent to play around Ally Switch, even on the turn it's first revealed, so it can never provide total control. Having a surprise up your sleeve is an advantage, but it isn't absolute, especially in the case of Ally Switch. An opposing Choice Scarf or coverage move you weren't expecting can easily pick up a big KO or win the game, there's nothing unique about Ally Switch in that regard, just that it's less effective at it since the opponent always still has an option to beat it, which is not necessarily the case when your opponent reveals something else you weren't expecting. Having lessened effectiveness after being revealed but still offering different utility over the standard option/s also applies to other lesser used sets too.
- Ally Switch could fall under the category of Uncompetitive. I'm going to simplify the definition of Uncompetitive as basically having to do with how a players skill in a game is reflected by the outcomes. In general, I think Ally Switch does not promote particularly skillful gameplay, as opposed to Follow Me and Rage Powder (which can still create 50/50 situations, such as whether a Pokemon will attack or click redirection, but also come with a number of ways to be played skillfully).
- While it's not always the case, there are times where Ally Switch can simply force players to take the 50/50. While neither player may have necessarily played better or worse to get to that point, it can remove the possibility for making plays.
+ Pokemon is a game of odds, so managing those odds is simply part of the game. Ally Switch used smartly increases a player's odds of winning a game, and it is still a display of skill.
- Ally Switch is often not a good move, and to Doubles purists it may be sacrilegious to see players win games through Ally Switch.
- Ally Switch tends to be an extremely easy play for the player using it. It can be an easy way out of a tough situation by relying on chance that is often not particularly nuanced (and this differentiates it from other variant strategies or plays that are considered more "skillful")
- To build on the point of it being easy, its also more difficult for the opponent to deal with; while they may be able to successfully counter an Ally Switch, the effort : reward ratio is probably much better for the Ally Switch user than the opponent.
I don't see how Ally Switch takes away from player skill expression but Follow Me doesn't. Both are support moves which do no damage and are vulnerable to being exploited in a number of ways (Fake Out, spread moves, plays which work regardless of if they're used, free switch or setup / Tailwind / Substitute since they're not attacking) and neither involve RNG. Mindlessly clicking Ally Switch is a good way to lose, so there is skill in using it effectively, especially when it's most effective when first used. Both of them mean you need to consider two different lines of play depending on whether it's used or not, and both of them encourage using the aforementioned counterplay to beat them. Follow Me is the more restrictive of the two though, as it forces your opponent to target that Pokemon, while with Ally Switch that isn't the case, meaning your opponent has the ability to express their skill by playing around it in a way that cannot be done with Follow Me.
There's a lot of talk about Ally Switch "
forcing" 50/50s which isn't quite accurate. It's not like the mere presence of the move turns the situation into a 50/50, far from it. As mentioned above there's several forms of counterplay, and even when one of those isn't available then it still doesn't guarantee Ally Switch is good in that situation. Avoiding or intentionally getting into those 50/50 situations is also a skill, just as it is with those that can arise from Follow Me or other moves. If you
could force 50/50s it would be far stronger and see more use as you could just coinflip whenever you're losing, a la Swagger in gen 5/6. We also need to put to bed this idea that having Ally Switch puts you at an automatic advantage versus your opponent, that's evidently not the case or it wouldn't see so little usage. I don't see how Ally Switch is an "
easy" play either, in what way is it easier than clicking anything else? Clicking Fake Out or Follow me are "easy" in that you can restrict what options your opponent has and that you need to consider, threatening KOs before they move can also do this, but Ally Switch isn't like that. Other moves are also "
easy" in being good options to mindlessly click a lot more of the time than Ally Switch is. Being an unreliable method to get out of a tough situation doesn't make it an "
easy" way out, it makes it difficult one, an easy one wouldn't be susceptible to the opponent's play like that. The only "
chance" involved is your opponent always having the ability to be able to play around it, which makes it easier for your opponent to deal with than other options without that chance always available for them.
Ally Switch is a move which does not use RNG or inhibit skill expression. Getting stunted by an unexpected move is not unique to Ally Switch, and neither is reaching a "50/50" situation where there isn't a play available that perfectly covers all the opponent's options. When revealed, Ally Switch is only at best a 50/50, but is often worse than that, in part due to readily available counterplay that every team should have which can circumvent it entirely. Ally Switch is a bad, inconsistent move that you're generally better off using other moves instead of, and its usage reflects that accurately.