Pokemon Scarlet & Violet - 18th Nov 2022! **OFFICIAL INFO ONLY**

[Morkal]

I want to make some observations about Cyclizar, Koraidon, and Miraidon and what they mean for Pokemon. In addition to some commentary that I feel needs to be stated.

I've seen people talk about Cyclizar like it's a pre-evolution or directly connected via an evolution of some kind to Koraidon and Miraidon, but I don't think that's the case. I feel it's much deeper and more meta than that. On a surface level, I think it's similar to Carbink / Diancie in that they're connected via lore rather than directly and are an apt representation of Past, Present, and Future and people's attitudes regarding them. Koraidon represents how people glorify the past (shiny frills and all), Miraidon represents how people glorify the future (sleek tech advancements and all), while Cyclizar represents how people undervalue the present (there's been barely any talks about Cyclizar himself, it's all about Shed Tail). Cyclizar has a non-flashy design (still really cool, though), is Dragon / NORMAL type, and is very common and utilized for travel by most people in the Paldea region.

What this is all building up to is; that I wholeheartedly believe that Koraidon, Cyclizar, and Miraidon are GF's commentary on the Pokemon fanbase, and also why all three of them are rideable Pokemon.

Part of the fanbase rides on the incessant worshipping of past generations despite their obvious downsides compared to the modern titles. Another part of the fanbase rides on the incessant trashing of past generations and is geared towards future hype even though future games can be made better by learning from past strengths and mistakes. Finally, most of the fanbase ignores the state of the "now" as a taken-for-granted commonplace. It also makes sense for this reason why they would reveal Cyclizar in a competitive announcement, rather than a more theatrical "trailer" type of announcement like Koraidon and Miraidon were revealed in, and we all participated in it. We've all been talking about how this Pokemon's signature move and its possible effects on the upcoming competitive meta (the future) while comparing it to the previous metas (the past) and their associated gimmicks like Dynamax, Z-moves, Mega Evolution, etc.

I'd like to make it clear I'm not saying any of this as a slight against GF; in fact, I'm happy they're directly critiquing the fanbase like the fanbase has been doing to them for years. Have they made mistakes when working on Pokemon? Absolutely. Have fans made mistakes in how they approach Pokemon? Absolutely. There's no black or white "right or wrong" way to handle what is literally the most popular entertainment IP on the planet. There is always a gray area, but people don't want gray. Why do you think Cyclizar, despite arguably having a better design than either of the two box legends and arguably more lore importance, is nowhere near the shining star? It's because we idealize this stuff, and I respect the hell out of GF for having the balls to snap back at a fanbase that, while having made some great points, is filled with a bunch of really unappreciative people who just want their next dopamine fix from a familiar source of entertainment.

 

[R_N]

I....really don't see any of that being "snapping back" at the fanbase at all....

 

[Morkal]

I....really don't see any of that being "snapping back" at the fanbase at all....

I'd love to hear why you think it's not snapping back (not sarcastic, I'm genuinely interested in hearing your perspective). GF is one of the most heavily scrutinized companies in the gaming industry; I've seen more negative comments towards them than I have towards companies that can be considered legitimately predatory (such as EA). I've also seen more hyperbolic worship towards them than I have towards companies with pretty great track records (such as Obsidian). They're a very sensationalized company, and that takes a toll on the people consuming it, and the people working within it.

 

[R_N]

I'd love to hear why you think it's not snapping back (not sarcastic, I'm genuinely interested in hearing your perspective). GF is one of the most heavily scrutinized companies in the gaming industry; I've seen more negative comments towards them than I have towards companies that can be considered legitimately predatory (such as EA). I've also seen more hyperbolic worship towards them than I have towards companies with pretty great track records (such as Obsidian).

Look i typed & erased like 3 different response and eventually just bailed on a drive by because I didn't even know where to begin. I think just fundamentally I can't agree with the theory you present.
But I guess I'll try again in earnest

So, just grabbing at something here, first of all, gamefreak themselves are the ones who also can't stop venerating the past. So decking out Kiraidon to the nines as a representation of this already feels off because its been a long standing criticism even from the people who hold up an older title over the current ones. And if you're around the fandom long enough you know that a lot of people aren't happy with the past either....you wallow in the mistakes of the past.
Next, I don't follow how "those who trash the past and get hype for the future" would be something they would "snap back" at all? Gamefreak themselves almost immediately look to the future just by the nature of game design so already some more pot/kettle situation going in this scenario. But the people who look forward to the new games...aren't necessarily ignoring the present at all. They probably even like it, because the futrure is now. It's here, all around us and consumes the conversation for the next 3 years. Obviously they also start looking forward to where the games go from here, but that's the nature of anything. You look forward to the next thing, the thing comes out and you (probably) enjoy it, and so you look forward to the next thing, how it can expand on this or or whatever.

Meanwhile the gist with Cyclizar is they...intentionally....showed it with other things so we talk about the other things instead of it? Even though the things being discussed are still dealing with the game itself, the oncoming present. Yeah there's reference to past stuff, but that's just because we kind of need to in order to discuss it. I guess you could argue that's the point but that's the point of literally anything they would show.

There's also the whole thing of "yeah you THINK the past & future are so much better, so we literally made them better and more important". You...sure showed us?

And finally I guess, just, like. As a snap back, the intent is its making commentary that can be immediately understood and probably result in shaming or change in behavior (or both), but that doesn't really work when everyone goes "wow cool lizards" (or "wow dumb lizards") and moves on. IT falls flat.

So if not snap back then, "why design them this way" well..
let's start with the more obvious dry answer: The other two lizards are legendary, Cyclizar is not. By design they must have more pop for marketing value. And Cyclizar being a more "tame" design fits with it being more broad use, while the legends are for us. It creates a clear visual language in the world to differentiate things. See also: Protgaonist designs in games are often more distinct and sometimes outlandish compared to NPCs. It again gives more "pop".
Furthermore, the big difference between the legends & cylizar is a way to get your intrigue going. They're clearly related in some fashion, but they're not talking about it because they want you to look at them and go "what's these three's deal" so its in your mind for the next couple months and as you play the game so when the reveal happens its like oh wow, mystery solved. Will it be...Gen 7 styled evolution? Will it be...time travel & could these be past/future forms? The story implications if its the latter: immense! Who knows!
so "why reveal cyclizar in a competitive environment"? Because the competitive environment was a chance to reveal something with many eyes all at once. The conceit is "it has a competitive move" but in practice it's the sole Pokemon revealed and as I just said that puts all eyes on it and gets you thinking of how these are related. It's clearly calculated on that front.

I've seen a fair bit of discussion about it, incidentally.


Anyway I dunno man, like I said before I just fundamentally don't agree with the premise to begin with. You can twist anything to fit it, including just about everything I said in this post, and that means the evidence just has me go "but...what if not that tho"

e: I guess if it was meant to be a snapback I'd have the past be a broken down bike that looks like shit, the future be ephemeral and larger than life and the present be the superior one because cant you see, morons, that the present is king

 

[TheMantyke]

I'd love to hear why you think it's not snapping back (not sarcastic, I'm genuinely interested in hearing your perspective). GF is one of the most heavily scrutinized companies in the gaming industry; I've seen more negative comments towards them than I have towards companies that can be considered legitimately predatory (such as EA). I've also seen more hyperbolic worship towards them than I have towards companies with pretty great track records (such as Obsidian). They're a very sensationalized company, and that takes a toll on the people consuming it, and the people working within it.

With all due respect, it reads like a big jump from A to D instead of A to B to C. Past / present / future theming is an incredibly common trope in fiction that can be used for any number of reasons. Making a big call like the trio of Pokemon being based on the fanbase needs some decent evidence in some way or another.

Back in Gen 6 I took my own absolutely ridiculous shot that Solgaleo and Lunala were united by a previous evolution and ended up being right. I cobbled together some hints on that aspect of them through their designs and some context clues from trailers as I presented the theory to give more tangible evidence (admittedly with the assistance of a weak leak setting me on that path). They were all pretty tangible "hey look at this" things to point through and not so much flowery abstract theming hints off of the very limited amount of information we've received. If you want to better substantiate your theory, I'd look for something like that. Otherwise, I'm 100% in the camp of its just more generic past / present / future theming.

 

[Moyashi]

a poor typing (most ice-types, since Ice is a coverage, not a type)

*points to Weavile, GDarm, ATales, Arctozolt and Kyurem which have all had great success in OU this gen*

That's ignoring all the ones used in lower tiers. I'll be real but I've kinda gotten tired of the "ice type bad, use ice coverage" which has become fairly dated. And while there isn't any mons that immediately come to mind that'd want to tera to ice, theoretically there could be some strong special attackers with ice beam that may want to have it as stab, because stab ice moves are powerful and hard to switch into.

Anyways, regarding Tera and its potential impact, id9say it's simply too soon to tell. You can't really sayw without time and hands on testing. In theory offensive applications like gaining super stab on a main stab is really scary, but I wonder how many mons this apply to.

 

[Bakugames]

It's too early to tell if tera will be scary because we don't know whos coming back, who even are the new mons, beyond some of their designs, abilities and like... 2 moves? I do think its more likely to be too busted than too weak, but imo comparing it to dmax is really weird, considering dmax tripled your hp, made all your moves nukes that also setup and was given a bunch of immunities to would be counters

 

[Imperial Magala]

The biggest callout GameFreak ever did is still the one gentleman in the Battle Resort...

It's one thing to enjoy leisurely battles, but real battles can be a severe trial. Truly strong Trainers sometimes must be prepared to choose Pokémon that can win rather than their favorite Pokémon.

And it technically applies to themselves too since it's acknowledges the sheer power difference between some Pokemon. As for Terastallisation, a leak that got me excited is that Gym Leaders terastilize a non-matching Pokemon into their chosen type, which I can foresee leading to debates within these forums about the importance of each Pokemon chosen for the battle.

 

[Cuddly]

*points to Weavile, GDarm, ATales, Arctozolt and Kyurem which have all had great success in OU this gen*

Correct
*Higher Offense*BP Darkrai, Free Choice Band with no drawbacks using another Choice item Monkey, 1 turn duel screens, oddly specifically good Dino that is bad once you slightly change the meta with OMs, and Zekrom that was UUBL at one point*
It really says a lot about Ice when being OU with a 170 Atk, 125/100/90 bulk, 95 Spe, and still has pretty high BP moves is a win for Ice types.

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

Koraidon and Miraidon are heavily implied to be linked to one mon.

Now, there's a mon whose Japanese name is Lizardon...

 

[Pikachu315111]

All these Items are taking inspiration from Moves & Abilities. If there's time maybe I'll gather a list of other Moves & Abilities which would be neat to see as an Item (and maybe some Item effects as Moves or Abilities).

Originally I wrote out some ideas for how these would work, but this is already on the edge of wishlisting and that would bring it over. So instead I'll just present you with the list and I'll let you imagination do the work:

Moves to Item/Ability: Baton Pass, Belly Drum (Item), Court Change, Crafty Shield/Taunt, Curse (Item), Encore, Entry Hazard Placer*, Follow Me/Rage Powder, Grudge/Spite, Guard Split/Power Split, Haze, Heal Block, Healing Wish/Wish, Imprison, Magic Room, Mud Sport/Water Sport, Pain Split, Power Shift, Ability Changer** (Item), Strength Sap, Switcheroo/Trick (Ability), Topsy-Turvy (Item), Torment, Yawn

*Toxic Spikes, Spikes, Stealth Rock, & Sticky Web. I would also count Leech Seed.
** Signal Beam & Worry Seed

Items to Move/Ability: Big Root, Binding Band/Grip Claw, Heavy-Duty Boots, Safety Goggles, Shed Shell

Abilities to Move/Item: Air Lock/Cloud Nine, Aroma Veil, Battle Armor/Shell Armor (Item), Bulletproof, Clear Body, Comatose (Item; think Flame Orb & Toxic Orb), Corrosion/Merciless, Dazzling/Queenly Majesty, Download, Dry Skin/Ice Body, Friend Guard, Guts, Illusion (Item), Infiltrator, Iron Bards/Rough Skin, Magic Bounce/Magic Guard/Wonder Skin (Item), Mold Breaker, Moody, Move Power-up*, No Guard (Move), Oblivious, Power of Alchemy/Receiver, Prankster, Pressure, Reckless, Regenerator, Rock Head, Screen Cleaner (Item), Serene Grace, Sheer Force, Simple, Soundproof, Stakeout, Technician, Tinted Lens, Triage

* Iron Fist, Mega Launcher, Punk Rock, Strong Jaw, & Tough Claws.

If the thread stays upon for a little longer maybe I'll go through all the Moves to see how wide affecting Covert Cloak is.

Okay, after getting through half the Pokemon moves, I realize this isn't as interesting of a list I thought it would be. Here's ALL the moves which Covert Cloak blocks the secondary effects of if they affect the target. Primarily Covert Cloak's best feature if blocking Flinch, Freeze, and low chance hax in general. Competitive players can correct me, but I don't feel like it's a primary Item but rather a useful Item to keep note of when you've given your Life Orb and Choice Items out already and you have a few Pokemon left wanting a Held Item. It's something that never hurts when you really got nothing else.

8 gyms + 1 for the Elite Four + 1 for the Champion + 1 for the postgame boss

I am seeing

GYMS:

Grass - Water - Bug - Flying

Normal - Poison - Fairy - Rock

ELITE 4 - CHAMP - POSTGAME

that I wholeheartedly believe that Koraidon, Cyclizar, and Miraidon are GF's commentary on the Pokemon fanbase

Now a few others have already jumped on why that feels like a bit of a jump, so I'm not quoting you to add another.

Instead, I want to point out that if GF wants to make any commentary about the fanbase, well, a major part of the SV's story is the player going to school. We are attending a Pokemon university, a university solely made for trainers to learn to battle better (yeah, yeah, and get closer to their Pokemon), the students at the school range from kids to adults, and we've seen the teachers are a diverse group of people.

If GF has anything it wants to commentate on about the Pokemon fanbase, this is the gen they do not need to be subtle about it. They can put it on the frontline inside the school.

 

[TURBODERP]

I feel like a lot of people here are expecting to run into cool gimmicks like Flying Heatran and Water Coalossal all the time, and they're gonna find a rude awakening.

Maybe people will try that out for the first few months to be cute, but it seems incredibly likely to me that the Tera meta will eventually become almost exclusively making use of the pseudo-adaptability bonus, which IMO is simply way too powerful to give up. Mono-Steel Scizor with Swords Dance Technician Adaptability BP in particular stands out as something I'll be testing early (assuming he's in the game idk).

What I do know is that there's no way this is getting banned, or at least not for a while. Dynamax was broken for a lot of reasons, doubling health, giving max-moves and ignoring Choice locks was insane for one mechanic. This on paper is not really comparable. Not to mention, the bad optics of banning the main mechanic two gens in a row.

I don't usually post in here but just wanted to give my (probably overly cynical) two cents.

Yea I feel it's kinda like Z-moves in a sense (which IMO made Gen 7 worse overall). Z-moves definitely let a lot of weaker mons at least be able to do more than be fodder in the higher tiers, and gave many mons a valid niche in a tier above what they'd otherwise be stuck in, but Z-moves were even better on the already-very-good mons in a tier and pushed quite a few of them into the unhealthy/unfun and broken territory (Magearna/Heatran/Kartana/etc., and Zygarde/Pheromosa/Naganadel respectively).

Yes there will likely be many viable niche mons that can have Tera-options that make them legit choices in a higher tier than they would otherwise reside (and this is cool!), and a well-constructed team around the more gimmicky Tera-options can still work in higher tiers when piloted by a skilled player, but Tera will likely benefit the already-good mons even more and push the "almost broken but doesn't have the right coverage" mons into the unhealthy/unfun zone.

 

[A_Wild_Noob_Appeared!]

I know that Pokemon writing has never been great and my complaining is never going to change anything, but I don't know how you can make the "past vs future" theme not seem incredibly cheap when:
1) The ancient lizard that supposedly represents the past looks like a motorcycle. Like c'mon.
2) The Pokemon setting is implicitly pro-modern. Every game gives the player a mini-computer and magic metal orbs to catch new friends in. Whenever your Pokemon get hurt, you have magic healing machines to instantly make them better. The PC can magically beam your Pokemon across the whole country.

Okay, the bad guys sometimes use machines, but that doesn't fully constitute a warning of the perils of the "future" unless there's thematic glue that says that it is a natural consequence of the drives that lead us to produce new technologies in the first place. Pollution comes up sometimes, but a lot of the time it's so they can say "this Poison-type can clean up pollution". But ultimately, there's been no indication (up to this point) that Pokeballs, Pokedexes, PCs, etc, which are core elements of the series and incredibly futuristic by real-world standards, are linked to any systemic problem. Unless they say that "missed Pokeballs are releasing microplastics into the soil" or something.

Maybe it turns out that I'm wrong, who knows. It just seems very hard to do the theme justice taking into account the rest of the series (similarly in BW, you can't just bring up as a prominent story element that there are abused Pokemon, have the protagonist do nothing about it, and then never mention it again). I'm just saying that you can just do a "bad guy does bad thing and you have to stop them" plot instead of trying to be thought-provoking and failing spectacularly.

 

[Rarycaris]

Correct
*Higher Offense*BP Darkrai, Free Choice Band with no drawbacks using another Choice item Monkey, 1 turn duel screens, oddly specifically good Dino that is bad once you slightly change the meta with OMs, and Zekrom that was UUBL at one point*
It really says a lot about Ice when being OU with a 170 Atk, 125/100/90 bulk, 95 Spe, and still has pretty high BP moves is a win for Ice types.

They're talking about base form Kyurem, which ultimately *also* got banned this generation because it finally got the movepool it needed and that, more than typing or stats, is what was holding Kyurem back.

But yes, essentially Ice is seeing success in OU on mons that have strong offenses and are decently fast, which is another way of saying we're getting more Ice mons (or buffs to Ice mons) that lean into its strengths as a type. Of course, HDB negating the Stealth Rock problem doesn't hurt either.

 

[Bakugames]

Not to be an evil sjw but my main issue with the past vs future theme is that the past legendary is based on cultures that spain colonized and almost got rid of (extremely tone deaf) but that still stand despite it all (I feel like i dont have to go over why labeling indigenous cultures as something from the past and not living and surviving despite genocide is bad). Gamefreak is genuinely dogshit at having any sort of respect to indigenous cultures so it's not surprising, but it sucks ass

 

[Moyashi]

*Higher Offense*BP Darkrai,

This comparison doesn't even make sense. And it doesn't work.

You're weirdly singling out characteristics of these mons rather than wanting to acknowledge the type plays a big part in making them as good as they are (It's a big part of what makes GDarm broken), and helps Alola Tales find set up opportunities (odd that you omit what first gave it rise which was hail teams taking off. I'm also not sure why you mention OMs in reference to Arctozolt. This was about ice types in OU.

and Zekrom that was UUBL at one point*

I was talking about base Kyurem. But also KyuB literally had no physical ice stab which held back. It went from good in OU to broken as hell in OU once it got one, and it was a move like icicle spear. Which shows that, when given the tools they need to succeed, they can be and often are very threatening.

Anyways don't want to let this go on since I was mostly just making a one off remark about something I felt. So that's the last on that I'll say.

On a more related note, with Breloom returning, I'm pretty curious to see what kind of possibilities it could have with Terastilization. Steel type after poison heal kicks in? Grass super stab sets?

 

[Sirya]

I want to make some observations about Cyclizar, Koraidon, and Miraidon and what they mean for Pokemon. In addition to some commentary that I feel needs to be stated.

I've seen people talk about Cyclizar like it's a pre-evolution or directly connected via an evolution of some kind to Koraidon and Miraidon, but I don't think that's the case. I feel it's much deeper and more meta than that. On a surface level, I think it's similar to Carbink / Diancie in that they're connected via lore rather than directly and are an apt representation of Past, Present, and Future and people's attitudes regarding them. Koraidon represents how people glorify the past (shiny frills and all), Miraidon represents how people glorify the future (sleek tech advancements and all), while Cyclizar represents how people undervalue the present (there's been barely any talks about Cyclizar himself, it's all about Shed Tail). Cyclizar has a non-flashy design (still really cool, though), is Dragon / NORMAL type, and is very common and utilized for travel by most people in the Paldea region.

What this is all building up to is; that I wholeheartedly believe that Koraidon, Cyclizar, and Miraidon are GF's commentary on the Pokemon fanbase, and also why all three of them are rideable Pokemon.

Part of the fanbase rides on the incessant worshipping of past generations despite their obvious downsides compared to the modern titles. Another part of the fanbase rides on the incessant trashing of past generations and is geared towards future hype even though future games can be made better by learning from past strengths and mistakes. Finally, most of the fanbase ignores the state of the "now" as a taken-for-granted commonplace. It also makes sense for this reason why they would reveal Cyclizar in a competitive announcement, rather than a more theatrical "trailer" type of announcement like Koraidon and Miraidon were revealed in, and we all participated in it. We've all been talking about how this Pokemon's signature move and its possible effects on the upcoming competitive meta (the future) while comparing it to the previous metas (the past) and their associated gimmicks like Dynamax, Z-moves, Mega Evolution, etc.

I'd like to make it clear I'm not saying any of this as a slight against GF; in fact, I'm happy they're directly critiquing the fanbase like the fanbase has been doing to them for years. Have they made mistakes when working on Pokemon? Absolutely. Have fans made mistakes in how they approach Pokemon? Absolutely. There's no black or white "right or wrong" way to handle what is literally the most popular entertainment IP on the planet. There is always a gray area, but people don't want gray. Why do you think Cyclizar, despite arguably having a better design than either of the two box legends and arguably more lore importance, is nowhere near the shining star? It's because we idealize this stuff, and I respect the hell out of GF for having the balls to snap back at a fanbase that, while having made some great points, is filled with a bunch of really unappreciative people who just want their next dopamine fix from a familiar source of entertainment.

Interesting story.

Now, imagine if said fanbase has around 30 years and has been playing and knowing what different consoles are capable of, what am I saying with different consoles? What the peak of the franchise can be in terms of both only content and hardware limitations, and suddenly has to face the truth of comparing not only an enormous amount of technical deficiencies due to the games being clearly rushed -I've seen no one ever negating this fact- but a noticeable and objective difference between what games like Xenoblade portray (to address one amongst hundreds) and what Sword and Shield conforts with, being one of them a niche franchise and the other what is literally the most popular entertainment IP on the planet.

This is, even forgeting everything about you being the consumer and them being the market, so they should, of course, live up to your expectations. I'm not talking about crazy expectations that made it impossible for every company to provide, no. Realistic, basic expectations in terms of both, content on a jRPG and technical prowess that surely aren't provided.

Trust me, I won't start a debate around GF. I'm very excited for this games. But negating that GF has been rushing games, probably due to pressure from TCP themselves at the same time that you put the playerbase in the same position as them, the people who is paying for the product expecting something great and actually allowing them to be what is literally the most popular entertainment IP on the planet, is beyond what I'm willing to listen.

I can see the comparison between past and future as theme in the games, yes. I cannot see this as GF criticizing the fanbase. A company that made neverafter-used millions selling underperforming jRPGs could never, in their lifes, criticize their fanbase because 1.000 individuals in the entire world are expecting the impossible, while millions of people expect that they've seen is enterely possible around the industry but just dont get it.

 

[Codraroll]

Being a bit late on the Terastal utility discussion, but I feel like chiming in anyway:

Fundamentally, it changes the Pokémon into a monotype 'mon. In a way, we can imagine this as the metagame containing monotype Pokémon of every type, all with the stat spread, moves, and ability of every Pokémon. Consequently, some Pokémon would just be better X-type monotypes than others. In effect, to use an example, you wouldn't turn any ol' Pokémon into a Water-type sweeper: you would pick the best Pokémon for Water-type sweeps if that is your strategy. This would necessarily be a 'mon that already has Water STAB and strong moves, with the stats to use them.

Secondly, it would surprise me if Tera Blast has a base power higher than 65 or so. Otherwise, it would become the best STAB move available for some types (i.e. special Fighting, physical Ice, physical Electric) and completely negate the advantage of being able to learn any of the rare, strong moves of that type. In other words, you would never sweep with Tera Blast. If your Pokémon has to rely on Tera Blast to do damage with its new typing, you'd be better off using another Pokémon that carries a stronger move of that type. For that reason, I wouldn't fear Ground Volcarona too much. It doesn't have any good Ground moves, it wouldn't be the best Ground sweeper, and turning into a Ground-type would mean giving up STAB on the strong moves it otherwise relies on.

Overall, I lean towards believing that the "Super-STAB nuke" strategy would become the most common way to use Terastalization. Take something with high Speed and offensive stats, and good moves, soup up the power of these moves even further, go to town. Unless there are changes to the damage calc formula (unlikely) or new ways to buff defenses, these Super-STAB moves would inflict even more damage than anything we know today. Even resisted hits would hurt like mad. Walling them would be a futile task - immunities might be the only way to go, and not all types even have 'mons immune to them (then again, those tend to have other drawbacks such as poor type chart performance or a lack of reliable moves).

On the other hand, there is two things to consider when figuring out which Pokémon to Terastalize: How well it would work as a 'mon of the new typing, and how much it would gain by turning into that typing. Not just on the individual Pokémon level (like how Volcarona would love to be able to get around Heatran by turning into a Ground-type), but also how much it would benefit the team overall. A Volcarona turned into a Ground-type would be a kinda crummy Ground-type, and a kinda crummy Volcarona too. Great, the opponent's Heatran is gone, but then what? Is this worth the opportunity cost of not being able to Super-STAB sweep? Sure, you've pulled off a neat gambit, but it doesn't strike me as something that builds momentum. Especially if your team was so devoted to the idea of a Volcarona sweep that it was necessary to use the Terastal slot to enable you to get around one of its counters in the first place. Now the counter is gone, but the Volcarona you have kinda sucks, and the opponent can still Terastalize. For this reason, I doubt "Lure Terastalizing" will become that prevalent. It's too niche and has a too high opportunity cost.

Then again, theorymonning before a new generation tends to miss a lot of crucial context and is usually dead wrong when compared to the actual state of the metagame in the end. So who knows what will actually happen?

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

On a more related note, with Breloom returning, I'm pretty curious to see what kind of possibilities it could have with Terastilization. Steel type after poison heal kicks in? Grass super stab sets?

Tera Fighting SubPunch set.

 

[Zetalz]

Not to be an evil sjw but my main issue with the past vs future theme is that the past legendary is based on cultures that spain colonized and almost got rid of (extremely tone deaf) but that still stand despite it all (I feel like i dont have to go over why labeling indigenous cultures as something from the past and not living and surviving despite genocide is bad). Gamefreak is genuinely dogshit at having any sort of respect to indigenous cultures so it's not surprising, but it sucks ass

Feel like this is reading way too deep into it. Like I don't disagree Gamefreak can be oblivious to these sorts of things by nature of being foreign tourists but calling Koraidon a disrespectful representation because "past = dead" apparently in this context, feels like an immense stretch. There's nothing wrong with making reference to a cultures history, and it being part of 'the past' doesn't implicitly make it a disrespectful representation. If anything I find this kind of thinking way more disrespectul than anything Gamefreak has actually done, intentionally or not, regarding representing other cultures.

 

[pika pal]

On the other hand, there is two things to consider when figuring out which Pokémon to Terastalize: How well it would work as a 'mon of the new typing, and how much it would gain by turning into that typing. Not just on the individual Pokémon level (like how Volcarona would love to be able to get around Heatran by turning into a Ground-type), but also how much it would benefit the team overall. A Volcarona turned into a Ground-type would be a kinda crummy Ground-type, and a kinda crummy Volcarona too. Great, the opponent's Heatran is gone, but then what? Is this worth the opportunity cost of not being able to Super-STAB sweep? Sure, you've pulled off a neat gambit, but it doesn't strike me as something that builds momentum. Especially if your team was so devoted to the idea of a Volcarona sweep that it was necessary to use the Terastal slot to enable you to get around one of its counters in the first place. Now the counter is gone, but the Volcarona you have kinda sucks, and the opponent can still Terastalize. For this reason, I doubt "Lure Terastalizing" will become that prevalent. It's too niche and has a too high opportunity cost.

I agree with the overall point, though I think Heatran is ironically one of the very few mons for which this kind of approach WOULD be a consideration, just looking at the past couple gens and how this thing always manages to be a Pain in an OU opponent's side. For a random Sweeper or some okay-ish Glue Pokemon, Lure Terastalizing would probably be a bit excessive for 95% of the roster, but Heatran is one of the few Pokemon where playing with/around it determines so much of the match that this COULD be in that other 5%.

I think moreso the weakness to consider is how much you're relinquishing on making the Tera Pokemon a Lure (both the once-a-battle gimmick and not using a "help normal job" Tera Type) isn't always consistent results. You would need to be targetting something as influential as Heatran or Lando-T for the Lure to (potentially) be worth its cost

 

[Bakugames]

Feel like this is reading way too deep into it. Like I don't disagree Gamefreak can be oblivious to these sorts of things by nature of being foreign tourists but calling Koraidon a disrespectful representation because "past = dead" apparently in this context, feels like an immense stretch. There's nothing wrong with making reference to a cultures history, and it being part of 'the past' doesn't implicitly make it a disrespectful representation. If anything I find this kind of thinking way more disrespectul than anything Gamefreak has actually done, intentionally or not, regarding representing other cultures.

The problem for me is that we're not talking about a old Spanish thing that maybe is still around, but is often seen as a "past" thing. Spain is old as balls, that'd be a normal thing to touch on, and even if its still done today, its origins are much older and span years etc.

But here we're talking about a concept whos culture'a main relation with spain was that spaniards wanted it dead, thought as inferior, banned it etc. To then feature it as a big symbol of poke-spains past is extremely tone deaf. Paldea clearly isn't a ex-colonial superpower like spain is, but it is still very culturally and geographically a spain but slightly to the left, and I think you gotta be aware of the awful shit these countries did to not look tone deaf.
Also tbh there's plenty of things originated in spain that could have easily been a past pokemon. Spain is old, its culture has changed so much, there's so many eras you could take inspiration from.

And it's hard to assume good faith after legend arceus honestly awful portrayal of ainu culture. Maybe its just ignorance, but I find ignorance a pretty lazy defense. Go read a book or do an ounce of research, it's not like it'll kill them (and tbh I think it'd help them come with more interesting plots/region design/pokemon anyways)

 

[Dusk Mage Necrozma]

I think the best team composition would have one or two Pokemon that greatly appreciate Terastal but aren’t reliant on it, and the rest of the team not preferring to use Terastal but being able to use it in an emergency to get past counters.

In other news, anything can become a spinblocker, so a lot of hazard setters would like to become Ghost type (except for the ones with amazing typings like Lando.) Of course Rapid Spin is pretty meh in the SSOU meta but depending on how the meta works out we might see things like SR Clefable running Tera Ghost as a weird option to block Spin.

 

[fratelli bc]

About the really hot teachers, the legendaries and Cyclizar...

"In Pokémon Scarlet, you will meet Professor Sada, and in Pokémon Violet, you will meet Professor Turo. Each is carrying out research into certain lore passed down in the region. "

"Koraidon is a Legendary Pokémon you can meet in Pokémon Scarlet, and Miraidon is a Legendary Pokémon you can meet in Pokémon Violet. These two Pokémon are said to have powers that far surpass those of other Pokémon, but details about Koraidon and Miraidon are still shrouded in mystery."

"Cyclizar: This Pokémon has lived in many households in the Paldea region since ancient times."

I have a theory that the dilf/milf teachers research resulted in them finding a way to go back enough in the past to recover the strongest ancestor for Cyclizar (Sada), or resulted in going enough time in future to rescue the most evolved descendant of Cyclizar (Turo) and this will have something to do with other mechanic, maybe the "paradox pokemon" some leakers say.

 

[Hugin]

Secondly, it would surprise me if Tera Blast has a base power higher than 65 or so. Otherwise, it would become the best STAB move available for some types (i.e. special Fighting, physical Ice, physical Electric) and completely negate the advantage of being able to learn any of the rare, strong moves of that type. In other words, you would never sweep with Tera Blast. If your Pokémon has to rely on Tera Blast to do damage with its new typing, you'd be better off using another Pokémon that carries a stronger move of that type. For that reason, I wouldn't fear Ground Volcarona too much. It doesn't have any good Ground moves, it wouldn't be the best Ground sweeper, and turning into a Ground-type would mean giving up STAB on the strong moves it otherwise relies on.

Nah, because Tera Blast is normal-type if you don't immediately Tera it's user. Now, some mons could be happy with a 100BP normal move(Porygon-Z, Gyarados)* just because it's wide neutral coverage, but on something like Hydreigon it's a dead moveslot if you don't click Tera. Taking Tera Blast is locking you into Teraing that specific mon in most fights, when I think part of the advantage of Tera will be having 3 mons on your side that can each Tera depending on which specific threats your oppt brings.

*90-100 BP feels likely, either because that's in-line with the usual STABs like Surf, or if they're doing a double power thing like Weather Ball.