Greybaum
GENTLEMAN, THIS IS DEMOCRACY MANIFEST
Personally I don't think there's anything wrong with the meta, nor am I having a massively difficult time building, although Drampa may be too much now that it's starting to see more use which I'll get onto later. I agree Quagsire is not an issue in the slightest, although I appreciate where the sentiment comes from.
I really don't like some of the arguments being used to justify bans right now, namely that a Pokemon "doesn't offer anything to the meta anyway". All the Pokemon mentioned have a lot of benefits worth keeping them for offensively, even if they can lack defensive utility, and even if you're specifying defensive utility I don't think it's even true.
GArticuno is one of the few checks we have to opposing Psychic-types like Mesprit, it's a Defog deterrent, and works well as a pivot with or without Future Sight. Ghilvally is one of our few offensive spinblockers, and having offensive checks to Passimian should always be welcomed because quite frankly using Weezing/Sandaconda etc. gets boring.
Benefits to the meta aside, Ghilvally in particular I can't see as broken at all; it has its fair share of defensive answers and its typing typically limits to only getting set up opportunities once per game unless played dangerously. It's also reliant on Double-Edge and Dragon Claw to hit its best answers in Scrafty and Drampa which not only needs a lot of chip to set up (and in the case of Double-Edge cuts into its survivability massively) it but also leaves it in a tough spot against blanket physdef mons like Quagsire, (PhysDef) Aggron, Tangela etc. that it rarely if ever breaks through.
There's a better argument for GArticuno and it pretty clearly centres around the Future Sight & phazing combination, which I do believe is inherently broken as a mechanic when its abusers are good enough, but I think it's fine in PU if only because of how much effort goes into getting it to work. The most common phazer I've seen thus far, Aggron, has to take a huge risk against two of our most common Psychic-"resists" in Gigalith and opposing Aggron because it cannot comfortably take Earthquake or Body Press, and unless you get really lucky with the Roar RNG it is often just not worth it, especially when it's at risk of losing your answer to Ribombee Mesprit etc. While it has a better matchup against other SpDef mons (namely Togedemaru, opposing GArticuno) it's not like the defensive player doesn't have outs, whether it's clicking Wish or Taunt on the Roar turn to largely nullify it, or getting a well-timed double into something that maybe doesn't handle GArticuno but can handle Aggron, e.g. Scrafty, Coil Sandaconda. My mind could change on this Pokemon in time, especially if this sees more experimentation; I saw tlenit getting some wins with Roar RestTalk Scrafty earlier, for example, and I imagine Rhydon has some merit worth playing with as a more offensive phaser, but at the moment I can't see GArticuno as an A+ rank Pokemon, let alone a banworthy one.
If anything is to be considered broken, I think it has to be Drampa. It can be offensively overwhelmed but if you have a single slower Pokemon that can't tank a hit you're playing on your toes trying to make sure it doesn't get a kill every time it's in. It also doesn't really have any answers outside of arguably Golbat or specific cores cores typically limited to stall like Audino & Articuno, as even Mr. Mime, Carbink etc. can be taken out with coverage options (Fire Blast, Surf, Energy Ball etc.) leaving defensive counterplay largely restricted to guessing games with immunities/strong spdef resists like Gigalith/Silvally-Fairy/Charizard cores which are typically more skewed towards the Drampa user making [a large amount of] progress.
The only other Pokemon that I think come even close to broken are Steelvally and Charizard.
Steelvally's offensive typing is almost as spammable as Ghost's, Rock Slide is far more compatible coverage for Multi-Attack than any other form can boast, and most importantly it has a typing that can make much better use of its natural bulk. It gets far more set-up opportunities, a Toxic immunity, and best of all has amazing compatibility with Healing Wish users (namely Choice Scarf Mesprit) to let it get past answers like Lanturn, Aggron, Jellicent etc. long-term. This also isn't mentioning how suprisingly decent fishing for Rock Slide flinches ends up being in endgame scenarios, particularly against the fat waters reliant on Scald. Quagsire hard walls, and while they aren't impossible to break, Palossand/Weezing clearly do a lot against it, but overall I think Steelvally might be too consistent even in a metagame that has already largely adapted to it and I'd personally like to see more discussion on it.
Charizard meanwhile has a few fairly reliable counters (Lanturn, Gigalith, Archeops, Gigalith-lite mons like Carbink and Lunatone which I've seen people playing with recently), but arguably forces more centralization than any other Pokemon in the tier bar maybe Scrafty, and unlike Scrafty is able to massively shake up its available counterplay through the Dragon Dance set while still offering defensive utility (see: set-up opportunities) and simultaneously hiding its set to keep an opponent on their toes. It's incredibly good at making progress even with the standard Toxic set, and Decem's covered that ground so I won't bother retreading. A suspect would definitely be warranted.
Even then, I don't think either of these Pokemon are so disgustingly oppressive that immediate action has to be taken - Drampa feels like the only immediately pressing concern and as far as Steelvally and Charizard go I'm happy to just sit back and see how things develop during SCL.
I really don't like some of the arguments being used to justify bans right now, namely that a Pokemon "doesn't offer anything to the meta anyway". All the Pokemon mentioned have a lot of benefits worth keeping them for offensively, even if they can lack defensive utility, and even if you're specifying defensive utility I don't think it's even true.
GArticuno is one of the few checks we have to opposing Psychic-types like Mesprit, it's a Defog deterrent, and works well as a pivot with or without Future Sight. Ghilvally is one of our few offensive spinblockers, and having offensive checks to Passimian should always be welcomed because quite frankly using Weezing/Sandaconda etc. gets boring.
Benefits to the meta aside, Ghilvally in particular I can't see as broken at all; it has its fair share of defensive answers and its typing typically limits to only getting set up opportunities once per game unless played dangerously. It's also reliant on Double-Edge and Dragon Claw to hit its best answers in Scrafty and Drampa which not only needs a lot of chip to set up (and in the case of Double-Edge cuts into its survivability massively) it but also leaves it in a tough spot against blanket physdef mons like Quagsire, (PhysDef) Aggron, Tangela etc. that it rarely if ever breaks through.
There's a better argument for GArticuno and it pretty clearly centres around the Future Sight & phazing combination, which I do believe is inherently broken as a mechanic when its abusers are good enough, but I think it's fine in PU if only because of how much effort goes into getting it to work. The most common phazer I've seen thus far, Aggron, has to take a huge risk against two of our most common Psychic-"resists" in Gigalith and opposing Aggron because it cannot comfortably take Earthquake or Body Press, and unless you get really lucky with the Roar RNG it is often just not worth it, especially when it's at risk of losing your answer to Ribombee Mesprit etc. While it has a better matchup against other SpDef mons (namely Togedemaru, opposing GArticuno) it's not like the defensive player doesn't have outs, whether it's clicking Wish or Taunt on the Roar turn to largely nullify it, or getting a well-timed double into something that maybe doesn't handle GArticuno but can handle Aggron, e.g. Scrafty, Coil Sandaconda. My mind could change on this Pokemon in time, especially if this sees more experimentation; I saw tlenit getting some wins with Roar RestTalk Scrafty earlier, for example, and I imagine Rhydon has some merit worth playing with as a more offensive phaser, but at the moment I can't see GArticuno as an A+ rank Pokemon, let alone a banworthy one.
If anything is to be considered broken, I think it has to be Drampa. It can be offensively overwhelmed but if you have a single slower Pokemon that can't tank a hit you're playing on your toes trying to make sure it doesn't get a kill every time it's in. It also doesn't really have any answers outside of arguably Golbat or specific cores cores typically limited to stall like Audino & Articuno, as even Mr. Mime, Carbink etc. can be taken out with coverage options (Fire Blast, Surf, Energy Ball etc.) leaving defensive counterplay largely restricted to guessing games with immunities/strong spdef resists like Gigalith/Silvally-Fairy/Charizard cores which are typically more skewed towards the Drampa user making [a large amount of] progress.
The only other Pokemon that I think come even close to broken are Steelvally and Charizard.
Steelvally's offensive typing is almost as spammable as Ghost's, Rock Slide is far more compatible coverage for Multi-Attack than any other form can boast, and most importantly it has a typing that can make much better use of its natural bulk. It gets far more set-up opportunities, a Toxic immunity, and best of all has amazing compatibility with Healing Wish users (namely Choice Scarf Mesprit) to let it get past answers like Lanturn, Aggron, Jellicent etc. long-term. This also isn't mentioning how suprisingly decent fishing for Rock Slide flinches ends up being in endgame scenarios, particularly against the fat waters reliant on Scald. Quagsire hard walls, and while they aren't impossible to break, Palossand/Weezing clearly do a lot against it, but overall I think Steelvally might be too consistent even in a metagame that has already largely adapted to it and I'd personally like to see more discussion on it.
Charizard meanwhile has a few fairly reliable counters (Lanturn, Gigalith, Archeops, Gigalith-lite mons like Carbink and Lunatone which I've seen people playing with recently), but arguably forces more centralization than any other Pokemon in the tier bar maybe Scrafty, and unlike Scrafty is able to massively shake up its available counterplay through the Dragon Dance set while still offering defensive utility (see: set-up opportunities) and simultaneously hiding its set to keep an opponent on their toes. It's incredibly good at making progress even with the standard Toxic set, and Decem's covered that ground so I won't bother retreading. A suspect would definitely be warranted.
Even then, I don't think either of these Pokemon are so disgustingly oppressive that immediate action has to be taken - Drampa feels like the only immediately pressing concern and as far as Steelvally and Charizard go I'm happy to just sit back and see how things develop during SCL.