I would prefer the US locking people up for posting cringe if it meant they would also stop drone striking civilians to death. I guess I'm the weird one though, since apparently to liberals it 'doesn't count' if you kill people who aren't american.
this what happens when you get your political ideology from the front page of redditI did, you just Googled "US massacre" and posted every Wiki result. Virtually all of the ones on US territory were 100+ years ago and have been long since accepted as very bad and are not denied by the US government. Many of them are taught to us as required curriculum in public schools!
Cops killing citizens is a bad point as this is criticized by pretty much everyone. Also cops aren't controlled by the federal government (mostly). Similarly a hillbilly that shoots up a school has nothing to do with the will of the US govt. Both acts of violence are criticized by the current US leadership.
Massacres in other nations are generally just civilian casualties of war and are not the target. A drone strike accidentally killing innocents is a lot different from you and your family disappearing because you photoshopped your country's leader onto a Disney bear. Again I'm in no way defending US foreign policy but you're comparing domestic and foreign policy as if they're the same thing. Not like China's foreign policy is any better, with them supporting North Korea, threatening Taiwan, ignoring territorial claims of neighbors, manipulating currency, Tibetan genocide, and so on. Probably the only reason they haven't tried much more is the US allying with practically every nation they share a border with.
I could draw a picture of Obama having sex with a horse and generally there would be zero government intervention. I can protest against Democracy and as long as it's peaceful the government won't bother me. I can rant about the glorious return of robot Hitler right in front of the White house gates and as long as I'm respectful of others around me Uncle Sam is cool with it.
Idk man, the US has a history of fuckery just like any other global power. But at least we can talk about it.
Edit: come get me Biden.
It truly stands as a testament to the greatness of free American society that cops and civilians regularly kill fellow citizens without needing a government institution telling them to do so.Cops killing citizens is a bad point as this is criticized by pretty much everyone. Also cops aren't controlled by the federal government (mostly). Similarly a hillbilly that shoots up a school has nothing to do with the will of the US govt.
Different to who? Do you think it matters to an Iraqi child who lost their parents whether or not the US military "intended" to kill them? Actually, what does it say about Americans' valuation of brown people's lives that they are willing to accept massive "collateral damage" that often far exceeds the amount of non-collateral damage? And before you point out again that it is "war" and therefore it is allowed, let us consider how many American non-combatants have been killed by the Middle Eastern countries that America has waged war on. Let us also consider the implications of the term "asymmetric warfare."Massacres in other nations are generally just civilian casualties of war and are not the target. A drone strike accidentally killing innocents is a lot different from you and your family disappearing because you photoshopped your country's leader onto a Disney bear.
That's exactly what I'm saying. When most people hate China they automatically dislike normal Chinese people, despite that it is really their government (and a few extremist groups) that they should be hating. I'm not defending anything the Chinese government has done. It's undeniably horrible. I'm just pointing out that its not the Chinese people's fault.Bro your government has people in concentration camps. China literally slaughtered thousands of people in Tiananmen Square and ground up their bodies with tanks until their entrails clogged up the streets. China is so good at killing their own people over the last several decades that Wikipedia has its own page devoted to it. The Chinese government is a weird mismatch of capitalism and fascism that grinds on for any form of power and control it can get. It's genuinely awful and absolutely factually worse than anything the US has done, although I'm no fan of the State's foreign policy post 9/11. Probably the only reason Taiwan is still independent is the United States vague defense pact. LGBT are treated horribly in China. China sells prisoner organs. China censors everything. People disappear in China for posting pictures of Winnie the fucking Pooh. China is terrible.
But Chinese people? People are people. Chinese people are great. They're humans just like anyone else. Same with Russians, North Koreans, Iranians etc. You can't judge people by the government. No, I have no issues with your neighbors, grandparents, or second grade teachers. But yes I absolutely have issue with the people that ordered tanks to run over protesters or people who sent the Uyghurs into camps. Fuck the Chinese government, but I proudly open my arms for anyone born within the national borders of modern day China.
Also I'm really fucking drunk lol
Even if you're looking at things happened in the US, the US put its own citizens into concentration camps, systematically and repeatedly massacred striking workers in coal mines, has the largest prison population and the highest incarceration rate in the world (not to mention private prisons, penal labor, the "war on drugs" and nonviolent drug "offenses" etc), refused to treat poor black people with syphilis for 40 years to see the course of untreated syphilis, tested torture methods and various chemicals on prisoners and mental patients, bombed a residential compound and burnt 11 people (including 5 children) to death and destroyed a neighborhood in the process, etc etc. If you think the Chinese government is uniquely evil you aren't looking close enough.Bro your government has people in concentration camps. China literally slaughtered thousands of people in Tiananmen Square and ground up their bodies with tanks until their entrails clogged up the streets. China is so good at killing their own people over the last several decades that Wikipedia has its own page devoted to it. The Chinese government is a weird mismatch of capitalism and fascism that grinds on for any form of power and control it can get. It's genuinely awful and absolutely factually worse than anything the US has done, although I'm no fan of the State's foreign policy post 9/11. Probably the only reason Taiwan is still independent is the United States vague defense pact. LGBT are treated horribly in China. China sells prisoner organs. China censors everything. People disappear in China for posting pictures of Winnie the fucking Pooh. China is terrible.
I mean, at that point I could write about slavery/the transatlantic slave trade and the genocides of Native Americans and it'd be a pissing contest about which country has "worse" atrocities. That's not really my point - the point is many things the current Chinese government does or has done (concentration camps, massacres, gross violations of bodily autonomy) the US is also guilty of. It's just that you aren't affected by it, so it's easy to overlook. To rave on about how terrible China is while overlooking US's past (and present) shows a lack of awareness at best and is hypocritical and callous at worst.Lol there is absolutely no comparison between the US and China.
This is what happens when you make it your mission to catalogue every single thing wrong with a country - you start to lack perspective. Sure the US has done more than its' fair share of horrible things both domestically and internationally when compared to other 'first world' countries, there is no denying that. However, there is no comparison between what the US has done and what China has done over the last century.
Here is one link which trumps all of the links posted by the trolls arguing the opposite: HOW MANY DIED? NEW EVIDENCE SUGGESTS FAR HIGHER NUMBERS FOR THE VICTIMS OF MAO ZEDONG'S ERA - The Washington Post
For those too lazy to click on it Mao Zedong was responsible for between 40 - 80 million deaths in China from 1949 to 1976. There is nothing in the US' very troubled history that even remotely compares to that level of genocide. It does not in any way justify the horrible things the US has done and is responsible for to admit that China has been undeniably worse in the last century when it comes to human rights.
Don't worry, admitting that China is worse doesn't mean that you can't all go back to the regularly scheduled programming of shitting on the US constantly. In many ways it is deserved. But don't let all that fun deprive you of your common sense.
Okay, let's pretend this doesn't happen in the US, and that both its domestic and foreign policies are good enough to serve as an example for other countries (this is what they actually do and it's just bad, just to let you know), of course, screw those people like Assange for speaking out against the government and those who constantly fight for their social rights in the US, as well as those who have paid the cost of unnecessary wars and interventions, these are definitely not significant differences, right?.I find leftists who act as if there's no meaningful differences between the US and China a bit rich. They do realize that if they actually lived in China, they'd be the first ones sent to jail for speaking out against the government.
The fact that you can speak out about these issues is still more than what you can do in China. A couple of whistleblowers being persecuted =/= the entire country being unable to criticize the leadership and anything critical of the government being censored. Furthermore, the fact that oppressed minorities can actually fight for their rights in the US is a far step above what is happening to Uighurs and Tibetans. Sure, you can point to isolated incidents but that clearly misses the point. It's as dumb as the people who try to say that Republicans and Democrats are equally bad as each other.Okay, let's pretend this doesn't happen in the US, and that both its domestic and foreign policies are good enough to serve as an example for other countries (this is what they actually do and it's just bad, just to let you know), of course, screw those people like Assange for speaking out against the government and those who constantly fight for their social rights in the US, as well as those who have paid the cost of unnecessary wars and interventions, these are definitely not significant differences, right?.
Neither is worse or better than the other, but there are significant differences in the imperialist arrogance shown by US policies.
Sorry, but you cannot cover the sun with a finger, buddy.
The fact that I would be persecuted and censored as those "whistleblowers", even if I speak out on these issues in the way they do, is exactly the same, there is simply no comparison, that's actually the US government's perception of freedom, and since we're talking about oppressed minorities, recent events in the US, in terms of police brutality, clearly shows that it is not possible for these minorities to fight for their rights without their lives being threatened, which is not new, it's been going on for years.The fact that you can speak out about these issues is still more than what you can do in China. A couple of whistleblowers being persecuted =/= the entire country being unable to criticize the leadership and anything critical of the government being censored. Furthermore, the fact that oppressed minorities can actually fight for their rights in the US is a far step above what is happening to Uighurs and Tibetans. Sure, you can point to isolated incidents but that clearly misses the point. It's as dumb as the people who try to say that Republicans and Democrats are equally bad as each other.
If you truly believe this, you have no sense of perspective. There are many US-owned newspapers and media outlets that covered said whistleblowers, the struggles of BLM, police brutality, government corruption, etc. and none of them have faced any sanctions from the U.S. government. How many newspapers do you think are running in the People's Republic of China that are covering issues like the Uighur camps, police brutality in Hong Kong, China leaving various developing countries in severe debt to it, et cetera?The fact that I would be persecuted and censored as those "whistleblowers", even if I speak out on these issues in the way they do, is exactly the same, there is simply no comparison, that's actually the US government's perception of freedom, and since we're talking about oppressed minorities, recent events in the US, in terms of police brutality, clearly shows that it is not possible for these minorities to fight for their rights without their lives being threatened, which is not new, it's been going on for years.
This is directly the Russian state propaganda line, and it has been since the Soviet era. Is Russia/USSR some evil irrational boogeyman we have to destroy? No. Does only Russia have propaganda and not the U.S.? No. Does Russia consistently attempt to warp international happenings to support/sway/pressure its neighbors into authoritarianism? Yes. Is the Russian pro-authoritarian propaganda line something we should expect to be fully clear, accurate, and representative? No. I would venture that its line / this view is missing some perspective.that's actually the US government's perception of freedom, and since we're talking about oppressed minorities, recent events in the US, in terms of police brutality, clearly shows that it is not possible for these minorities to fight for their rights without their lives being threatened, which is not new, it's been going on for years.
your argument appears to be that your opponent, having not mentioned anything about russia, is an (un)witting russian shill. My reaction is no refutation, none is needed lol. i guess anyone who takes note of oppression of minority liberation movements in the U.S is a russian shill now. now stop acting like you aren't hilarious.e: eloquent refutation myo
cute.now stop acting like you aren't hilarious.
where can we even begin with this lovely ahistorical gloss? maybe we should we start with the fact that you claim that noting the oppression of minorities by the US government "has been a russian propaganda line for decades". Would you go so far as to say that it's been going on since the civil rights movement in the 60's and 70's lol? Sorry, but just because Russia says something doesn't make it untrue, but the fact that you're so quick to make out people as russian shills is honestly not possible to take seriously at all.I am willing to claim that:
1) If a statement directly is a primary Russian propaganda line used to pressure neighbors into authoritarianism (none of this "general talking points" or "bringing up issues" stuff)
2) That statement is probably missing perspective that prevents it from being fully comprehensive.
That doesn't mean the statement is completely without merit and all its ideas should be thrown away. It means that the statement has something missing.
The following statements are what I argue are direct Russian propaganda lines used to pressure neighbors into authoritarianism (again, not merely "general talking points" or "taking note of oppression"). Tell me if you think I'm strawmanning the poster; this is what I honestly interpreted.
"If you think there is a substantive difference between how America and (non-Western power) treat dissent, you're being fooled about false ideas of freedom from the U.S. government."
"The U.S. is an unfree country because it oppresses minorities."
"U.S. oppression of minorities shows that (non-Western power) should continue its current direction rather than emulate the U.S."
Again, there are valid ideas here. The U.S. has unfree elements. It should not be wholesale emulated. We can all agree on these things.
But there is a difference between "The U.S. has problems." and "The U.S. has problems, so (non-Western power) is no worse."
cute.
I modified this because you're pretty much making the exact point I've been trying to make for a while now."China is an unfree country because it oppresses minorities."
"Chinese oppression of minorities shows that the US should continue its current direction rather than emulate China"
Again, there are valid ideas here. China has unfree elements. It should not be wholesale emulated. We can all agree on these things.
But there is a difference between "China has problems." and "China has problems, so the US is no worse."
I can't think of freedom without pointing out how is there people like Assange and many others who have been constantly persecuted and censored for simply speaking out against the government and pretend it's normal, or that minorities are not being able to fight for their rights because their lives are being threatened by police brutality. Are we just going to ignore these issues to not even care about it and simply talk about how bad the Chinese censorship is compared to the US?.If you truly believe this, you have no sense of perspective. There are many US-owned newspapers and media outlets that covered said whistleblowers, the struggles of BLM, police brutality, government corruption, etc. and none of them have faced any sanctions from the U.S. government. How many newspapers do you think are running in the People's Republic of China that are covering issues like the Uighur camps, police brutality in Hong Kong, China leaving various developing countries in severe debt to it, et cetera?
Can't tell if you're being serious or not, but how can you label my previous post as Russian state propaganda? you even go so far as to mention the Soviet era, which has nothing to do with what I was talking about, in such logic, if there's something to blame the US government for, even all its faults, it's just propaganda and that's it? I do understand that people would end up talking about how bad are Russia and China, but is that even a reason to not even point out how bad has the US government done in terms of its domestic and foreign policies? that's a shame.This is directly the Russian state propaganda line, and it has been since the Soviet era. Is Russia/USSR some evil irrational boogeyman we have to destroy? No. Does only Russia have propaganda and not the U.S.? No. Does Russia consistently attempt to warp international happenings to support/sway/pressure its neighbors into authoritarianism? Yes. Is the Russian pro-authoritarian propaganda line something we should expect to be fully clear, accurate, and representative? No. I would venture that its line / this view is missing some perspective.
e: eloquent refutation myo
You just forgot something else,Does Russia consistently attempt to warp international happenings to support/sway/pressure its neighbors into authoritarianism? Yes.