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It’s the same as Toxic itself. I don’t want it to be OP, but most importantly, immunity to Stealth Rock is more powerful than Toxic Spikes, as it is more common, and it cannot be absorbed by Poison (or any other types). Plus it can use Lum Berry if needed.
Further, it doesn’t make sense to be immune to hazards at all, but I think it’s okay bc with a Rock type it gained many weaknesses, so my consideration would be to remove Spikes and Stealth Rocks as a weakness, as well as not being impacted by Sticky Webs.
Static Signal and Toxic Spikes would still work though because they are a status condition. This way Pokemon like Mewtwo Mega X won’t be very effective against it, but it doesn’t make it invincible.
Lastly, I am keeping the main traits, it’s still a Rock type immune to Sandstream, and it’s still had the core direct damage immunities, etc.
I didn't say it WAS op, if I did then I would've been hesitant to even give it such stats combined with simple and the boost moves. I was worried that someone may have thought it was OP, but I'd put it down and let others judge that for me before I'd know for sure. But I'm glad that there I enough holding it back to prevent it from truly being too overpowered though. But I'll go on ahead and bold strength order
It’s the same as Toxic itself. I don’t want it to be OP, but most importantly, immunity to Stealth Rock is more powerful than Toxic Spikes, as it is more common, and it cannot be absorbed by Poison (or any other types). Plus it can use Lum Berry if needed.
Further, it doesn’t make sense to be immune to hazards at all, but I think it’s okay bc with a Rock type it gained many weaknesses, so my consideration would be to remove Spikes and Stealth Rocks as a weakness, as well as not being impacted by Sticky Webs.
Static Signal and Toxic Spikes would still work though because they are a status condition. This way Pokemon like Mewtwo Mega X won’t be very effective against it, but it doesn’t make it invincible.
Lastly, I am keeping the main traits, it’s still a Rock type immune to Sandstream, and it’s still had the core direct damage immunities, etc.
OK, here's the new ability idea:
Magic Shell-Immune to all non-super effective damage, as well as hazards and recoil (including Life Orb). Still affected by Toxic Spikes and Static Signal, due to their unique properties. Only works on Shedinja, and is not affected by any ability-effecting moves (except for Sunsteel Strike, Moongeist Beam, and Photon Geyser, as well as their Z-move versions).
Much like you suggested, but just so it can be a bit more unique. And yes, I kept the recoil immunity because I want to have abuse strong coverage moves.
EDIT: So tell me how this and Ursaring are S+ rank.
OK, here's the new ability idea:
Magic Shell-Immune to all non-super effective damage, as well as hazards and recoil. Still affected by Toxic Spikes and Static Signal, due to their unique properties. Only works on Shedinja, and is not affected by any ability-effecting effects.
Much like you suggested, but just so it can be a bit more unique. And yes, I kept the recoil immunity because I want to have abuse strong coverage moves.
EDIT: So tell me how this and Ursaring are S+ rank.
It was ranked prior to these changes. Also, I accept the removal of recoil, that’s totally fine (which I will even allow to also include Life Orb). But I don’t want it to be immune to SunSteel, Photon Geyser, or Moongeist Beam.
I can allow it to be immune to Skill Swap, Entrainment, Worry Seed, like Comatose, but Mold Breaker and the similar moves are still effective.
I think we have reached an agreeable compromise, and I want to iterate I am trying to be fair to Shedinja, while also being fair to the rest of the metagame that has to face it.
While I will admit your job has been busy, OM!, can we please start voting now? I hate it when this type of crap happens where someone brings up a point and then the whole thread has to go all crazy with it.
While I will admit your job has been busy, OM!, can we please start voting now? I hate it when this type of crap happens where someone brings up a point and then the whole thread has to go all crazy with it.
I was only trying to be responsive to requests on feedback/info, I hope I didn’t derail the thread.
——————
Yes let’s start voting now. I’ll allow 6 votes
1. Golduck - OM! (Unique niche and concept for balanced stats and a functional role outside of its signature Ability)
2. Spinda - Heavyweapons Mann (I think this Pokemon is unique for the role it serves in Unaware, and balanced for its versatility with Contrary)
3. Raichu - Ticktock (Electric / Ground is a nice touch to handle Flying immune to Ground, while still not OP due to Grass-types)
4. Sudowoodo - 737373elj (The type is should have been, so dangerous - if it wins I’ll nickname it “Judowoodo”!)
5. Vespiquen - Jerry the great (Slaking needs some Royal competition!)
6. Parasect - Fragmented (An awesome re-sub with conceptually necessary tweaks to boot? Well of course! I also like Bellossom too, but outta votes and wanted to spread the votes per person)
”...And I Oop!” I accidentally assumed Spinda was yours, my bad. Edited out my prior recommendations.
“Sksksksk” (Vsco Girl references)
Edit: Last Slate submission winners are linked to their votes in the original OP post, and I Officialize the changes to Shedinja’s Ability in the Rebalancing resource list in the OP. Thank you.
I was only trying to be responsive to requests on feedback/info, I hope I didn’t derail the thread.
——————
Yes let’s start voting now. I’ll allow 6 votes
1. Golduck by - OM! (Unique niche and concept for balanced stats and a functional role outside of its signature Ability)
2. Spinda by - Heavyweapons Mann (I think this Pokemon is unique for the role it serves in Unaware, and balanced for its versatility with Contrary)
3. Raichu by - Ticktock (Electric / Ground is a nice touch to handle Flying immune to Ground, while still not OP due to Grass-types)
4. Sudowoodo by - 737373elj (The type is should have been, so dangerous - if it wins I’ll nickname it “Judowoodo”!)
5. Vespiquen by - Jerry the great (Slaking needs some Royal competition!)
6. Parasect by - Fragmented (An awesome re-sub with conceptually necessary tweaks to boot? Well of course! I also like Bellossom too, but outta votes and wanted to spread the votes per person)
Pokémon: Alolan Raticate (Mixed Defense) Typing: Dark-Poison Abilities: Merciless, Cheek Pouch, Thick Fat Custom Ability Description (if applicable): Stats: 115 / 91 / 130 / 40 / 130 / 67 (BST 563) (nerfed -10 in both defenses, for flavor reasons) New Moves: Fang Drain, Protect, Sludge Bomb, Sludge Wave, Poison Jab, other Poison-type moves. Custom Move Information (if applicable): Fang Drain: Dark-type, 100 BP, 100% Accuracy, Physical, makes contact, 16 PP. Custom Move Description (if applicable): If successful, user regains 1/2 damage dealt, rounded half up.
Z-Move - Deadly Drain: Dark; 140 Base Power, Physical, makes contact. If successful, user regains 1/2 damage dealt, rounded half up. Requires AloRaticium Z. Competitive (niche in Ubers): Designed to be defensive in nature, but with enough firepower to dent if need be, Raticate-Alola is tanky enough to withstand hits, and a new move in Fang Drain gives it needed access to recovery. This coupled with a new defensive typing far superior to its first one, good defenses and a hp not to be looked down upon makes Raticate-Alola a decent wall. Raticate-Alola also has the option of running offensive sets with Swords Dance and a decent, if not good, Attack stat. Attacking sets are further assisted by its newfound bulk to make setting up easier. It is very flexible, with many possible sets it could run, playing mind games with the opponent. However, weaknesses to common Bug, Fighting and Ground-type attacks mitigate its brilliant potential.
Offensive
Raticate-Alola @ Life Orb
Ability: Merciless
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Fang Drain / Knock Off / Pursuit
- Poison Jab
- U-Turn / Iron Tail / Zen Headbutt
Ground-types: Raticate-Alola is horrible weak to the abundant Ground-types running (or rampaging in some) around in the tier, like Groudon-Primal, Arceus-Ground and Zygarde-C.
Bug-types: Bug-types like Ninjask and Masquerain deal super-effective damage, and Raticate generally cannot harm them despite their low defenses, as it is too passive and offensive sets have no moves that can hit them strongly, allowing Masquerain in particular to set-up and proceed to KO it.
Fighting-types: Common Fighting-types like Lucario-Mega and Blaziken-Mega can defeat it with relative ease.
To add later
Pokemon that can KO Ground-types are good partners. Prime Pokemon include Grass-types like Gogoat, Simisage and Tropius, Ice-types like Kyurem-White, Walrein and Beartic, Water-types like Kyogre-Primal or even Castform. Pokemon that can handle Bug-types partner well with it too. Often, the two Bug-types are horribly weak to Stealth Rock, so a simple Stealth Rock setter can usually deter them. More offensive approaches include Pokemon with Rock-type coverage like Groudon-Primal. Pokemon that can handle Fighting-types are usually necessary, so Pokemon that can both defensively (Ho-Oh, Lugia, Giratina) or offensively (Mewtwo-Mega-X, Mewtwo-Mega-Y, Xerneas, Salamence-Mega, Giratina-Origin) are good.
Pokémon: Raticate (Mixed Offense) Typing: Dark Abilities: Guts, Hustle, Sheer Force Custom Ability Description (if applicable): Stats: 55 / 131 / 60 / 90 / 130 / 97 (BST 563) New Moves: Fang Strike, Crunch, Bite, Knock Off, Dark Pulse Custom Move Information (if applicable):
Fang Strike: Dark-type, 140 BP, 100% Accuracy, is Physical or Special based on highest attacking stat, 16 PP. Custom Move Description (if applicable): 10% chance to flinch.
Z-Move - Stealthy Strike: Dark-type; 200 Base Power, is Physical or Special based on highest attacking stat, 100% chance to flinch. Requires Raticatium Z. Competitive (niche in Ubers): Good offensive stats on both sides make Raticate a versatile attacker with attacking stats of 131 and 130 respectively. A good ability in Sheer Force also make Raticate hit harder due to a number of moves with secondary effects. Sheer Force also allows it to be used as a Special Attacker without being outclassed by it’s Physical Guts set. However, low HP and Defenses, as well as a bad Speed allowing it to be outsped by key threats like Xerneas means it won’t be able to last very long.
Fighting-types: Common Fighting-types like Marshadow, Simisage, Luacario-Mega and Blaziken-Mega can all KO it with a single hit, and Raticate cannot do much against them except the rare Zen Headbutt.
Bug-types: Strong and speedy Bug-types like Ninjask and Masquerain can easily KO Raticate with STAB SE Bug Buzz. However, Sucker Punch will deal a lot of damage, and they can’t switch in if Stealth Rock is up.
Fairy-types: Fairy-types deal SE damage with the easily spammable move Moonblast, alongside high Special Attack stats, this can be the end of Raticate. The most represented of these Pokemon is, without a doubt, Xerneas, although Pokemon like Arceus-Fairy and Magearna are fairly common too.
To add later
Pokemon that can handle Fighting-types are necessary. Such Pokemon include Xerneas and Ninjask. Pokemon that can handle Fairy-types are needed as well, with Necrozma-DM being the best option. Alternatively, Groudon-Primal functions decently as a check, and hits Magearna more effectively. Lastly, Bug-type counters are needed, with Pokemon like Groudon-Primal functioning well. Alternatively, a Stealth Rock setter can discourage them from switching in.
Pokémon: Chimecho (JOAT: Special Offense, Special Defense, Mixed Support) Typing: Psychic-Fairy Abilities: Levitate, Pixilate Custom Ability Description (if applicable): Stats: 125 / 50 / 80 / 135 / 140 / 65 (BST 595) New Moves: Wish, Moonblast, Hydro Pump, Earth Power Custom Move Information (if applicable): Custom Move Description (if applicable): Competitive (niche in Ubers): Newly increased stats in HP, Special Attack and Special Defense allow Chimecho to serve its purpose as Specially Offensive Attacker and/or Special Tank. It can even support the team with its wide variety of support moves like Wish, Healing Wish and Defog. The possibilities are endless with it. However, weaknesses to Bug, Ghost and Steel allow common atttckers like Scizor-Mega, Ninjask, Masquerain and Simisage to potentially defeat it using their high Attack stats to overcome its weaker Physical side. Still, it’s infinite variety will ensure it always stays important.
Bug-types: Bug-types, Ninjask in particular, can use their strong STAB moves and high Attack stats to defeat Chimecho. These Pokemon are usually Ninjask and Scizor-Mega.
Ghost-types: Ghost-types like Marshadow and Giratina-Origin can usually outspeed and defeat Chimecho without much hassle. However, they have to be wary of switching in to a Hyper Voice.
Steel-types: Steel-type Pokemon can usually defeat Chimecho IF they outspeed it, as occasional Earth Power-carrying Chimecho sets meant to defeat Primal Groudon May find a juicy Steel-type a good alternative.
To add later
Pokemon that can KO Steel-types are good partners if Chimecho is not running a Ground checking set; but they are recommended anyway no matter what. Good checks are usually Groudon-Primal, Arceus-Ground and Zygarde-C. Pokemon that can handle Bug-types well include Groudon-Primal. Alternatively, a simple Stealth Rock setter can deter Ninjask. A check to Scizor-Mega May also be needed, so a Ho-Oh is good. Lastly, checks to Ghost-types are still needed, as Chimecho still cannot defeat them by itself. Yveltal is recommended.
Pokémon: Alolan Raticate (Mixed Defense) Typing: Dark-Poison Abilities: Merciless, Cheek Pouch, Thick Fat Custom Ability Description (if applicable): Stats: 115 / 91 / 130 / 40 / 130 / 67 (BST 563) (nerfed -10 in both defenses, for flavor reasons) New Moves: Fang Drain, Protect, Sludge Bomb, Sludge Wave, Poison Jab, other Poison-type moves. Custom Move Information (if applicable): Fang Drain: Dark-type, Always deal damage equal to the user’s level, 100% Accuracy, Physical, makes contact, boosted by Strong Jaw, 16 PP. Custom Move Description (if applicable): If successful, user regains 1/2 damage dealt, rounded half up.
Z-Move - Deadly Drain: Dark; 140 Base Power, Physical, makes contact, boosted by Strong Jaw. If successful, user regains 1/2 damage dealt, rounded half up. Requires AloRaticium Z. Competitive (niche in Ubers): Designed to be defensive in nature, but with enough firepower to dent if need be, Raticate-Alola is tanky enough to withstand hits, and a new move in Fang Drain gives it needed access to recovery. This coupled with a new defensive typing far superior to its first one, good defenses and a hp not to be looked down upon makes Raticate-Alola a decent wall. Raticate-Alola also has the option of running offensive sets with Swords Dance and a decent, if not good, Attack stat. Attacking sets are further assisted by its newfound bulk to make setting up easier. It is very flexible, with many possible sets it could run, playing mind games with the opponent. However, weaknesses to common Bug, Fighting and Ground-type attacks mitigate its brilliant potential.
Offensive
Raticate-Alola @ Life Orb
Ability: Merciless
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Fang Drain / Knock Off / Pursuit
- Poison Jab
- U-Turn / Iron Tail / Zen Headbutt
Ground-types: Raticate-Alola is horrible weak to the abundant Ground-types running (or rampaging in some) around in the tier, like Groudon-Primal, Arceus-Ground and Zygarde-C.
Bug-types: Bug-types like Ninjask and Masquerain deal super-effective damage, and Raticate generally cannot harm them despite their low defenses, as it is too passive and offensive sets have no moves that can hit them strongly, allowing Masquerain in particular to set-up and proceed to KO it.
Fighting-types: Common Fighting-types like Lucario-Mega and Blaziken-Mega can defeat it with relative ease.
To add later
Pokemon that can KO Ground-types are good partners. Prime Pokemon include Grass-types like Gogoat, Simisage and Tropius, Ice-types like Kyurem-White, Walrein and Beartic, Water-types like Kyogre-Primal or even Castform. Pokemon that can handle Bug-types partner well with it too. Often, the two Bug-types are horribly weak to Stealth Rock, so a simple Stealth Rock setter can usually deter them. More offensive approaches include Pokemon with Rock-type coverage like Groudon-Primal. Pokemon that can handle Fighting-types are usually necessary, so Pokemon that can both defensively (Ho-Oh, Lugia, Giratina) or offensively (Mewtwo-Mega-X, Mewtwo-Mega-Y, Xerneas, Salamence-Mega, Giratina-Origin) are good.
The thing about fixed damage moves is that they are unaffected by damage boosting abilities. This mean you'll be doing a consistent 100 damage and only healing 50 back, which I'm don't think is as good as it should be. Additionally, you didn't give Faticate Strong Jaws anyway.
Pokémon: Raticate (Physical Offense) Typing: Normal Abilities: Guts, Hustle, Run Away Custom Ability Description (if applicable): Stats: 55 / 171 / 60 / 90 / 70 / 117 (BST 563) New Moves: Fang Strike Custom Move Information (if applicable):
Fang Strike: Both Dark and Normal-type, 140 BP, 100% Accuracy, Physical, makes contact, boosted by Strong Jaw, 16 PP. (Can gain STAB twice, if user is both types. Custom Move Description (if applicable): 10% chance to flinch.
Z-Move - Stealthy Strike: Both Dark and Normal-type; 200 Base Power, Physical, makes contact, boosted by Strong Jaw. 100% chance to flinch. Requires Raticatium Z (Can gain STAB twice, if user is both types.) Competitive (niche in Ubers): A brilliant offensive stat of 171 is enough to make most opponents run for the hills. But that’s isn’t just all! It has Guts. So it means Flame Orb Guts, + Swords Dance and... and... [you get the idea, this thing becomes a monster.]
Unfortunately, this thing is not broken because of the simple fact that it is too fragile and easily outsped by its worst enemy: Marshadow. Without anything to combat it aside from Sucker Punch, it is a sitting duck for it.
Z-move (NOT recommended)
Raticate @ Raticatium Z
Ability: Hustle
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant / Timid Nature
- Swords Dance / Pursuit / Sucker Punch
- Fang Strike
- Iron Tail
- Zen Headbutt
Fighting-types: Common Fighting-types like Marshadow, Simisage, Luacario-Mega and Blaziken-Mega can all KO it with a single hit, and Raticate cannot do much against them except the rare Zen Headbutt.
To add later
Pokemon that can handle Fighting-types are the only necessary teammates. Such Pokemon include Xerneas and Ninjask.
I've been wanting to say this for a while, but Double STAB moves aren't really a thing. Flying Press is the closest and only example of 'Double STAB', but in reality it's just a Fighting-type move with Flying-type effectiveness as well.
Quoting from Bulbapedia, "Despite being a Fighting-type move, the damage dealt is actually a combination of Fighting and Flying types, and thus its effectiveness against a given Pokémon differs from other Fighting-type moves. However, for all other purposes, it is a Fighting-type move: only Fighting-type Pokémon can receive the same-type attack bonus on Flying Press, it is unaffected by items like the Sky Plate and Flying Gem, and it will not activate the target's Coba Berry."
There really isn't a thing as Double STAB moves, but I wouldn't mind a move which has two type effectivenesses but only gets STAB from a single type. Double STAB as a concept is hard to balance since theoretically it gives a 2.25x bonus to an otherwise weak move, which shouldn't be the case.
Also 171 Attack with Guts is like Mega Ray level broken, especially with priority which will still dent resists.
Pokémon: Chimecho (JOAT: Special Offense, Special Defense, Mixed Support) Typing: Psychic-Fairy Abilities: Levitate, Pixilate Custom Ability Description (if applicable): Stats: 125 / 50 / 80 / 135 / 140 / 65 (BST 595) New Moves: Wish, Moonblast, Hydro Pump, Earth Power Custom Move Information (if applicable): Custom Move Description (if applicable): Competitive (niche in Ubers): Newly increased stats in HP, Special Attack and Special Defense allow Chimecho to serve its purpose as Specially Offensive Attacker and/or Special Tank. It can even support the team with its wide variety of support moves like Wish, Healing Wish and Defog. The possibilities are endless with it. However, weaknesses to Bug, Ghost and Steel allow common atttckers like Scizor-Mega, Ninjask, Masquerain and Simisage to potentially defeat it using their high Attack stats to overcome its weaker Physical side. Still, it’s infinite variety will ensure it always stays important.
Bug-types: Bug-types, Ninjask in particular, can use their strong STAB moves and high Attack stats to defeat Chimecho. These Pokemon are usually Ninjask and Scizor-Mega.
Ghost-types: Ghost-types like Marshadow and Giratina-Origin can usually outspeed and defeat Chimecho without much hassle. However, they have to be wary of switching in to a Hyper Voice.
Steel-types: Steel-type Pokemon can usually defeat Chimecho IF they outspeed it, as occasional Earth Power-carrying Chimecho sets meant to defeat Primal Groudon May find a juicy Steel-type a good alternative.
To add later
Pokemon that can KO Steel-types are good partners if Chimecho is not running a Ground checking set; but they are recommended anyway no matter what. Good checks are usually Groudon-Primal, Arceus-Ground and Zygarde-C. Pokemon that can handle Bug-types well include Groudon-Primal. Alternatively, a simple Stealth Rock setter can deter Ninjask. A check to Scizor-Mega May also be needed, so a Ho-Oh is good. Lastly, checks to Ghost-types are still needed, as Chimecho still cannot defeat them by itself. Yveltal is recommended.
I think a slight nerf to attack would be better. The current strongest Guts user is Conkeldurr with 140 Attack, so I suppose something around that range is appropriate. Raticate is already fast and hits harder with a Guts boost, so I don't think it needs too crazy of an Attack stat. Just my opinion.
I’m afraid 737373elj is not available as they discovered he was underage (I am not by the way: please don’t say I am). So he asked me to post messages on his behalf, and I’ll tell inform him of any posts that come his way. And yes, I’ll be posting his subs too.
Thank you and hope you understand. Oh yeah and sorry for spamming the thread.
